Foreign-based Players to be selected to play for the Springboks

It's all a little sad, lots of wrongs very few rights. Still I will be supporting the Boks even if the link to the heroes of my youth is increasingly fragile. It was never going to be perfect.

Damn Denny, a little sensitive I see! I am pretty sure I am not Mike's "spokesman", and I reckon that if you had a look at my previous posts, you'd notice I am probably the most neutral poster on this board. I don't take sides, but I do formulate my own opinions. As for your whole "we" argument with Mike...well it was never going to get anywhere, so why bother with it? I don't agree with changing the team you support, especially when it comes to the national team. Like Mozter, I will always support the Boks, the 15 players that run onto the field, however they have been selected, have worked their asses off to get there and will do their best to win!  They represent something I love and deserve my support. Yes, some players may earn their place because of politics and our country's checkered past, and I hate that, but they are still my team . 

 I can't relate to your loyalty, Blue. 

We'll see for how long you'll manage to maintain your heartfelt support of this absurdity.

I don't have what it takes to cheer for a team designed by those who regard me and my people as second rate citizens.
It's only going to get worse and worse. 
Good luck with that.

 Checkered Past? If only, checkered present, checkered future.

"
Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems the tired and elderly are still in the fray.
Welcome back Mr Matfield ... Gurthro ... Ruan ... Flo ... 
Seems we missed ya!
What a crock of sh!t!!!!!
"

The show of surprise. How cute.

Resources are down in SA. They were consumed. This turns the training of rugby players into a troublesome activity.
Of course older players will be in.
Of course, coloured players will be in, they are needed to provide a face in foreign countries as the training of rugby could less and less be funded by SA resources but foreign countries' resources.




"

I don't have what it takes to cheer for a team designed by those who regard me and my people as second rate citizens."
Second rate citizens? How silly of them. First rate consumers for sure. First rate destroyers. That is for sure.

So instead of playing victims, why not restore the level of resources as it were before 'you and your people' consumed it? That will be a great display in another type of superiority. A welcolme kind of superiority in a world of finite resources.

People who consume bigger and faster, who destroy faster and bigger, are somewhat, a kind of problem in a world of finite resources. Especially as they usually keep blaming others for their own doings.

CC Call me sentimental, but I just can't support another team. I suspect you say this and that about the Boks, but you still cheer when they win? Look, i hate the politics in SA, and it sucks to know that the ruling party is anti your skin colour, but I try to hang onto the few things that make me happy. One of those things is watching rugby. And the pinnacle of rugby in SA is the Springboks. If one can't separate a few good things from the rest of the mess in SA, I fear insanity will not hold off for very long!  

Holy shart TheConsumerist! Stuck record much! 

 Bluebok
It's not that hard, all I tried to establish was whether Mike had stopped supporting the Boks. It seemed to me that he was see-sawing with the idea over a matter of a few days. Once again, Mike had muddied the water, you picked up on him being vague...so did I....I rest my case.

 I should add that I toyed with the idea of dropping the Boks as well for the simple reason that it's a racially selected team based on government interference. But like someone pointed out, it's not the players fault, they don't pick themselves and so at the end of the day one still supports the players. As for Coetzee's appointment, I stand by what I believe, he is his own person not a government puppet, other than Ackerman there is no-one else......as a South African he was the only choice. SARU is never going to choose a foreign coach.

 The consumerist? Nice attempt at a reversal. But no.

The consumerists are to be found in SA. Want a stuck record much? What about trying the records of the consumerists who keep complaining, whining that there is not enough left to consume when they've been consuming it all?

The same that will keep complaining about the introduction of black players in the SA squad when this is just a scheme to help poaching resources abroad.

Quite some stuck records.

 "a racially selected team"

Is it that bad? Not a single black or coloured player worthy of selection?

The resources are down. Just gave an idea for a quizz.

 Sooooo ... we're to support a racially selected team just because the players didn't select themselves.
It's not their fault ... therefore they qualify for our support, right?
Not only are you a spineless twat, Denny ... with a bad comb-over ... but your stupid as well.
A three strike loser. 
To think that someone out there actually allowed a stupid, spineless twat ... with a bad comb-over ... to have his way with her ... to actually breed children ... who could also sport the same do ... have the same spineless, cowardly tendencies ... 
Unbelievable.

 You are still in a place where those political chaps control your life...if you feel so strongly about that, is remaining not a "spineless, cowardly tendency"?  Versus having the smarts to diagnose the likely problem, and the guts to take your family away from it?

 Denny ... you may be happy with it all ... which is no surprise to any of us ... as your an Ozzie living far away ... and ignorant to boot
Doesn't really sum up dense but is correct as far as it goes.
Personally my support fro the Boks becomes less fervent as time passes. If there are no plans to be the best what is the point. The fact is we will have an anc selected team in future so I wont criticise those who don't support the Boks.Clowns like dense denise love the fact the team is being selected on colour rather than merit because ou dense  is of course a racist. Now at least he  has come out of the closet and shown his true colours once and for all.Away with dense denise!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Beeno, the whole Zuma/Gupta saga has shown us that most people in the country have reached tipping point. It can go either way, but it looks like things might take a turn for the better at long last. I'm confident that our rugby can also get it's house in order and build a strong structure for the future.  Only time will tell,  but at least there are some positive signs.

 Mannatjies, Mannatjies, Mannatjies.
Please...... I trust u have someone available in your house that is able to read this and explain it to u once and for all.
Our life was never disrupted back in RSA.We did not accept the way the country was governed and chose to move.
The decision was made to move and we chose Canada for many reasons.
Also, in my location we get about 4 cm of snow a year. Yes just to let u also know that the snow is white. No shovel required heated driveway.....mate.
Fortunately we do have garages to park our cars and RV so no problem getting in and out of our property or having to shovel.
Now stop being such a colour code jerk and enjoy the rugby instead of posting your regular C.R.A.P.
Trust that u will get the message eventually.
I will always remain a Shark and Springbok supporter even if 15 players of colour are selected to represent the teams.
Thanks in advance for your reply but I am away for two weeks and will read your ranting reply on my return.
In the mean time take yourself in hand and cool down.......
Your friend and supporter,
Cheers!!!!
Arthur in the John.

 One reason is that Canada has still resources. Wont last long as more and more of the excellent men are moving in.

Locusts too fly from one field to another.

"One reason is that Canada has still resources. Wont last long as more and more of the excellent men are moving in. Locusts too fly from one field to another." So by excellent men you are talking about white men right? I assume you "excellent men" means arrogant white guys who consider the muscles "excellent"? All this resource consumption is what has brought you the device that you use to type your BS onto the www with. It also brought you an average life expectancy of 80. But yeah, let's leave everything in the earth, live to 25, praise old stones as God's and have Chiefs raping virgins from here until kingdom come. Here bud...go F yourself. Your retarded riddles are about as thin as a mosquitio's pubes.

 Fartur has a heated driveway....show him a little more respect Plum. And what is all this resource consumption bs, the world is awash in unwanted natural resources....every available tanker is full of surplus oil. That's why the price is a third of what it was a few years back.....almost every commodity is in the tank.

 "We did not accept the way the country was governed and chose to move."
"I will always remain a Shark and Springbok supporter even if 15 players of colour are selected to represent the teams."
G'onya, mate....Respect!

 "

So by excellent men you are talking about white men right? I assume you "excellent men" means arrogant white guys who consider the muscles "excellent"?"

The excellent men are those who consider themselves excellent because they consume harder, faster and bigger, because they destroy harder, faster and bigger.

Good news: historically, there have been quite a lot of white people into that thinking.

Bad news: more and more non white people have been convinced into thinking that way.

"

All this resource consumption is what has brought you the device that you use to type your BS onto the www with. It also brought you an average life expectancy of 80.

"

Cant even stick to one's own lines of thoughts, this has to be destroyed too.

Not the resource consumption. The resources. Period. Without those resources, there  is no consumption.

Useless to paint the so called boons of the consumption as universally shared. This is beyond stupid to tell as, even for something trivial like rugby,this is shown to fail.

The resources are lacking to train people in SA.

"

But yeah, let's leave everything in the earth, live to 25, praise old stones as God's and have Chiefs raping virgins from here until kingdom come.

Here bud...go F yourself. Your [removed]ed riddles are about as thin as a mosquitio's pubes."

Who is that? Again with the universal benefits thingie.

When SA train enough black people to field two professional squads, hey, maybe... But for now...

 Don't think I read a single rugby players name in the last 12 postings. 
Matfield is a foreign based player now...

Francois Louw and Vermeulen were excellent last year...no reason they aren't internationals this year. Kitshoff is solid, but in Marais we have a more dominant scrummager. 

 Mozart
Louw is too slow to be an opensider in SH conditions.   Maybe in NH conditions - nut in the SH he may be better as a blindsider - but is still very slow.   
IN SH conditions - where most of the SA tests are played - you may be able to do with one slower loosie like Vermeulen, but any others become serious liabilities for any team.
Donkey selections like Alberts was a disaster for the Springboks and the pace of Alberts and Louw are more or less on par from that perspective.  Louw did some work in ball protection and recovery - Alberts never did anything of the kind - since he was too slow to get to breakdown points.
nobody has any prolem with the selection of Vermeulen - but it is way past time to move on from the deadly slow loosie idea.    
     

" And what is all this resource consumption bs, the world is awash in unwanted natural resources....every available tanker is full of surplus oil. That's why the price is a third of what it was a few years back.....almost every commodity is in the tank."

Price? An item might be offered at a price to one buyer and to the double price to another customer.

Currently, on the world stage, there are tensions between the US and Russia. The US publicized their desire to destroy the russian economy.
That's reading way too much into the price thing.

Awashed with unwanted natural resources? Gross, gross.

The excellent men think of themselves as excellent because they excell at destroying harder, faster and bigger. They consume faster, harder and bigger.

Resources are finite. The excellent men's behaviour drives into bottlenecks: at some point, there are not enough resources to be destroyed.

When it happens, there are shakedowns among the excellent men who purge themselves of the least able in their art of destruction.

In a world of finite resources, you do not need more excellent men. You need less and less.

That is what is happening. And this is what is going to repeat more and more.

Unwanted natural resources? That was fun.

Maybe some of them could be allocated to the training of black players in SA.

This would avoid the political show used to cover stuff.

The Trditionalist
Just two questions rom a person who voted for the ANC in the past.   How much loot did Zuma and his family and allies took out of the country.   Some reckons it to be in the billions.  The country at present run by crooks.   Are you happy about it? 

 Link to related thread with two articles on the subject Link

 @Traditionalist

Sorry boetie, but you are a moron.

Who is to train black players? White coaches and players? Sure, we'll do that. We've been doing that for a long time now. Is there anything else you would like the "Excellent men" to do? Please do write a comprehensive list and we will work through said list and make sure that we supply every last thing you need. And when we are done in SA we will work our way through the rest of Africa and do the same. Because, after all, it's ALL the "Excellent men"s" fault right?

Unfortunately, the only issue we might have in this regard, is that the ANC controls the tax money which is supposed to be set aside for this. The ANC also controls the institutions(Schools/Universities/Clubs) that are supposed to facilitate this. So the "Excellent men"'s hands are sort of tied as far as assisting the "non-excellent men".

Luckily there is a rather simple solution. Write a formal letter to Mr Zuma and request that he issue a tender for the training of black players. You know those players that were not interested in rugby at school, though they had ample opportunity to play the game. The same guys who never played rugby when they went to university on bursaries. You know, the one's who would not pay R200 per month to join a rugby club yet would happily spend R1k on a pair of Nikes. The same guys who stand at traffic lights on Saturday mornings collecting thousands of rands for Rugby tours. Ask Mr Zuma, who is NOT and "excellent man" and i am sure he will oblige.

There is hardly a single child in SA, even the most poverty stricken who is not afforded the chance to play rugby. The vast majority of children in SA are educated. Educated at schools that offer sport. Aside from the very small percentage of children in expensive private schools, the opportunities offered to ALL children, both black and white, are largely homogeneous. Bottom line, for nine our of ten children, if you want to play Rugby, then you are able to. So where are the "non-excellent" players? Why are they not flooding the gates for a chance to represent their institution?

So where is the problem? Yes mate, whites are obviously conspiring against blacks. We obviously hate you and your children and don't want you to ever play rugby. Somehow, we are blocking you in our devious ways from partaking in rugby and being chosen to represent, schools, clubs and universities. Rugby is obviously only a sport for "excellent men".

Nobody here is impressed by your youth league bullcrap and OMG please don't think that you are the smartest person in this room. I assure you, that's not the case.

Oh, wait. As far as i can tell from my very extensive research, it seems, India, China and South America are now and always have been "consuming resources" just like the "excellent men". Further it seems that as soon as Africa was given the means/technology to do the same...they followed suite just as quickly as they could. So, it seems the only difference between the "excellent" and "non-Excellent" is the ability to consume...not the desire.

Please read some books and stop watching Malema videos on Youtube. Twat!

" Just two questions rom a person who voted for the ANC in the past.   How much loot did Zuma and his family and allies took out of the country.   Some reckons it to be in the billions.  The country at present run by crooks.   Are you happy about it?"

I am not happy or unhappy about it. I dont have to be happy or unhappy about it.

On the looting:

That is scrubbing out. As this will be for anyone else looting in SA.

The looting was already performed by the excellent men. That is why they need to turn abroad.
That is why a few black faces are needed in SA team to help the process abroad.

Scrubbing out. Like in pastry. You prepare a mixture in a bowl. After the mixture is poured in a cooking pot, you run your fingers, a spoon etc along the sides of the bowl to get the rest.
 

Yep it's confirmed. You're an idiot. Well done.

 Plum, he's taking the p!ss.

 Traditionalist
If it wasn't for the pastry and the pie there wouldn't be a Baker.

i will never understand why SA need to select players overseas, u have plenty of depth with the rugby talent in ur own backyard.

saffa super rugby teams might be weaker then a newborn baby, but its not because of the quality players, SA has a wealth of rugby talent based in SA.
its cos SA coaching system has not evolved in any way for the last decade.

foreign based players selections leaves the door open for the likes of jannie du plessis, viktor matfield, international rugbys worst flanker francois slow, f du plessis, r pienaar to still be in Bok selection frame of mind.
as a kiwi, i am well in my right to LMFAO, but instead i cant help but pity u pepps,

until SARU learns to have faith in the talent in their backyard like i do, expect ur Boks in the next four years to achieve the same nothing results theyve earned for over the last half decade.

Agree 100% Naruto.

 "Who is to train black players? White coaches and players? Sure, we'll do that. We've been doing that for a long time now. Is there anything else you would like the "Excellent men" to do? Please do write a comprehensive list and we will work through said list and make sure that we supply every last thing you need. And when we are done in SA we will work our way through the rest of Africa and do the same. Because, after all, it's ALL the "Excellent men"s" fault right?"

Disjointed from reality.
If black players had been trained, SA would not be in the mess of forcing a representation in the team.
The main issue is not the squad could be an all white squad, the main issue is that the black players come from such a tiny base.
And the situation is the result of the absence of training.
That whole circus is to hide that. This solution is adopted because it is way cheaper to force a few blacks in the team rather than train a large mass of them.

"Unfortunately, the only issue we might have in this regard, is that the ANC controls the tax money which is supposed to be set aside for this. The ANC also controls the institutions(Schools/Universities/Clubs) that are supposed to facilitate this. So the "Excellent men"'s hands are sort of tied as far as assisting the "non-excellent men"."

Apparently, it is a racial thing. It is something common among white excellent men. They think they only can be excellent men.

The excellent men are those who think of themselves as superior because they consume faster, bigger and harder.
No mention of race.
It was already pointed out. That is bad news.

The SA government are excellent men. They also know that the resources are lacking in SA and if they want to excell, they must sniff around.
A full white squad wont work to that effect. So they need a few tokens in the team so they can negociate deals abroad. Other than that, the Americans, the Chinese, the Russians, or any one else will only point a finger at SA to secure their own deals.
Want to dry out Mpzambican oil? A few tokens in the squad are mandatory.

"Oh, wait. As far as i can tell from my very extensive research, it seems, India, China and South America are now and always have been "consuming resources" just like the "excellent men". Further it seems that as soon as Africa was given the means/technology to do the same...they followed suite just as quickly as they could. So, it seems the only difference between the "excellent" and "non-Excellent" is the ability to consume...not the desire."

Everyone consumes. Being an excellent man is not merely consuming.

Nobody expected the excellent men to consume.

Everyone has been consuming as the excellent men have been.

The excellent men seek superiority in consuming faster, harder, bigger. That is a big difference.

The faster, the bigger, the harder, the better it is.

The ability to consume is limited by the availabilty to resources to consume. When the resources are gone, it is no longer possible to consume them.

The excellent men think that the faster they get to that point, the better it will be.

That is one of the two things they can be trusted with: rushing to the point of depletion of resources.

The second thing is to convince other people there is superiority in consuming faster, bigger and harder.

 You select your best possible team regardless where or for whom they play AND you constantly expose younger players to top test rugby. We seem to be hell bent on playing the proven test players until they are way past their prime and then we want to mold promising youngsters into great horoes of the past. We should rather be looking to inlock their own best potential. In short, we over coach structure and ignore creativity to a large extent. 

"You select your best possible team regardless where or for whom they play . . ."
Draad, you say this like it's some kind of known fact but you don' t substantiate it in any way.
The All Blacks don't pick foreign-based players and we do. That's pretty much all I need to know.

If there was ever a time for SA to cutoff the overseas player, it is now with a new coach and 3.5 years to the next World Cup. Would give plenty of time for things to sort out with contracts already committed to so a player overseas could come back in a couple years and contend for a spot and allow SARU to properly evaluate the effect it may have.
Not sure how "fair" it is to expect a player to give up the opportunity to make 5+ times more for the sake of being Bok. Its certainly a much larger sacrifice than any Aussie or All Black would have to make. This is the professional era - coaches, teams and fans treat players as commodities. The players should look at themselves the same way - especially since their profession allows a very limited amount of time to make money. A great lawyer has a lifetime to make money at law. A rugby player has 5 or 6 years on average.
IMO the No.1 reason NZ rugby retains their players domestically is because the temptation isn't as great: 1 pound equals 2 NZ dollars. But SA struggles because 1 pound equals 20 rand (recently almost 25). Add in the quota, political interference in the sport and the difference in quality of life overseas and there is no comparison between the experience of a NZ and SA'n player.