Four simple tactical adjustments would lift the Boks

First suggestion
If thi suggestion work once - it will be one time too often.   Kicking the ball in the air - is likely to result in a marked catch by the opposition and a free kick to them.   The only type of kicks in the opposition 22 is to kick rolling balls that can be followed up.    
Second Suggestion

Who is to make the first tackle - while the open-sider hangs back so as to try and make turnovers?     This is absolute rubbish and would destroy the defensive structure of any team.
Third suggestion
The above is routine comments from Mozart.   He is the one that says the flyhalf should stand still when getting the ball.    There is no way that hi comment about flyhalf play is of any value.    If a flyhalf is successful in drawing defenders to him it leaves space for the centers to operate in.   There is no rule and it is indeed stupid to say the flyhalf should not attack the gain line and off-load in the process.   The opposite lands you with the dead backline flyhalfs - the Steyns.  Since Mozart is a strong supporter of those two - and the way they stan d still and pass the ball to the inside centers - allow opposition defenders to drift out and cover the inside center as a matter of routine.

Fourth Suggestion
The response was already in evidence.   Keep the ball among the  three leading players in the maul and only pass it back when the opposing team actually join the maul.   Make sure Matfield is nowhere near that one - since his contribution to mauls is zero.  
       

 All valid points Mozart. I'd like to add a few.

1. Habana coming in off the shoulders of 10 and 12. It gives us multiple threats of an inside ball, a decoy to setup the crashball, or an immediate cleaner for 12. This would also allow the Boks to condense the attack and play flatter if 12 comes at pace.
2. Draw and pass. It's the single biggest threat posed by Willie and the rest of our players never do it. Our players instinctively run laterally away from defenders instead of fixing them and allowing support runners to attack space. 

Michael, crabbing sideways and throwing a slow, short wobbly pass in a lateral attack while standing too deep puts extraordinary stress on the backline. Mozart is correct. Furthermore, space is largely created through the centres... not for the centres. 

 Balls as per normal from Letsal.   Slow and wobbly passes are normal with flyhalfs like the Steyn's and nobody wants slow and wobbly passes and off-loads.   Most thinking players knows how to off-load/pass balls effectively.

On the contrary......  

Do we need another video Michael? But first there's my proposition regarding Matfield that you are running away from. 

Lestat let's leave the OOm to his insecure need to be a contrarian while completely missing the point....it's nothing if not funny. 
If you look at Lambie vs Wales he is the opposite of drawing the tackler...panicky passes at exactly the moment the defender has the receiver in his sights.
The wing through the middle seems to have become a lost art in our rugby.

 Letsallbemorons
I challeneged you to produce a video on the performances of Matfield in tests - and there is zero from you - as per normal a coward when it comes down to facts.   Take his contribution in three tests - the Perth test - the English test and  the Italian Welsh test.   The real BS story is going to be exposed - so suddenly the so-called cidio evidence is not provided.  
Mozart
The Welsh test was the only test played this year and Lambie the only flyhalf who played in tests?     Why is only Lambie mentioned - when you can look at useless Morne - the Stade Francais Reject - who actually had more test exposiu re than Lambie - as well?      

 Incidentally - the above four suggestions is the most idiotic I have ever seen on this site.   One Moron suggesting it - and another supporting it.   
The idea of kicking in the opposition 22 - other than a grubber kick - is typically Francois Steyn.   I can remember one such kick in the Brumbies game in Durban in 2013 - after which Plumtree lost his cool and said Steyn is not a center.    He is not a flyhalf either - th e worst tactical player in that position imaginable.  

So answer me this OOm. What do you think happens when you get a penalty, immediately launch an up and under, and the opposition calls a mark. Take your time but is this still your answer?

 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 14594RE: Four simple tactical adjustments would lift the Boks
January 01, 2015, 16:06:02First suggestion
If thi suggestion work once - it will be one time too often.   Kicking the ball in the air - is likely to result in a marked catch by the opposition and a free kick to them

The problem with Coetzee is that he is often standing in the traditional ball carrier position, away from the ruck instead of competing on/near the ground. He needs to focus more on getting clean ball from the rucks, than being the carrier. 

The openside flank must run onto the ball which often means they are the "first" tackler. This requires more than one fetcher in the backrow, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. 
The backrow combination of Louw, Coetzee and Vermuelen was the best for the Boks this year.  It was a combination "forced" on Meyer by injuries, as it is not really "South African" to have 2 fetchers in the backrow. 
The Boks traditionally like the backrow to be filled with strong ball carriers which can backfire in wet conditions, or when the referee favours the defending team at the breakdown. 

It would have been good to see how this combination went in the Northern Hemisphere tour where ideally all 3 loosies must be proficient fetchers, along with being decent carriers.  This would be my starting backrow at the worldcup. They outplayed the All Blacks on the ground which is pretty rare, and surely they can compete with the Northern Hemisphere sides. 

Set pieces force the open sider to tackle. In phase play he is only one of several potential tacklers. If you watch the great fetchers  like George Smith or Hooper, they team up with another tackler and immediately go over the top of the tackled player when possible. One never sees Coetzee doing this, or particularly committed to the fetch. So most of our turnovers come from Vermeulen or our hookers. We have to have a functioning fetcher....to me Coetzee may be a bit of a hybrid, but he is wired more like a 7.

Valid point, it is just from set piece where the opensider is forced into being the first tackler. Their are sometimes over 200 rucks per game, compared to a max total of 30(scrums and lineouts). 
With the changes to the law, the tackler cannot make any attempt to play the ball while tackling once they hit the ground . They should be trying to turn the player so that the team fetcher can get their hands on the ball to force a turnover or penalty. Vice versa on attacking ball. As soon as the ball goes to ground, the fetcher should be cleaning the ball out. 
It would be good to see more of this from him, as well as Louw. Especially in matches like the Irish test last. 

all players need to be good fetchers, ya cant have players waiting around for the designated fetcher

Actually JW I made that point back when Jake white said his idea of fetching was when his son " fetched" him a beer from the fridge. Still a more programmed approach makes sense as well. 

The All Blacks only ball carrier is Retalick, the rest are fetchers....
Each backline player has their own fetcher! 
No wonder the backs are confident with moving the ball wide from side to side. 

 In order for the Boks to seriously challenge the AB’s for the top spot, the following 4 changes have to be made:

 

1. We have to rid ourselves of our incompetent coach. The man is clearly out of touch with how modern test rugby is to be won. His honeymoon period is over and with it his weaknesses are being exposed. His biggest weakness is conservatism in selections. The man is hell bent on selecting players he is familiar with and very reluctant to invest in the new. Had these familiar players been in their prime then we would have nothing to complain about. But the fact is, Meyer is drawing on a bunch of washed up hasbeens.

2. We have to rid ourselves of the very deadwood mentioned above. The likes of Kirchner, Fourie, Jean, Olivier, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Jannie, Steenkamp, Bakkies, Matfield, Louw, Schalk and Alberts must go. We need to move on aa we have more talented youngsters than ever in SA right now.

3. We need to take the bold step and employ a Kiwi as coach. These guys know how to play winning rugby…….look at NZ, Wales and Ireland right now and what Kirwin did with Italy. We don’t have a good enough SA coach to lead the Boks right now.

4. SA rugby needs to ensure we do not lose talented youngsters like Paul Willemse or CJ Stander to other countries. We need to play it smart and identify class acts like these and select them as Bok squad members and play them off the bench as a minimum against the lesser sides out there, thereby securing their services moving forward. It’s so simple really. Bloody hell if useless Steenkamp is still racking up the test caps then surely it would make sense to hand Willemse I cap.

These changes are a must.......with the first two being priorities

 Mozart
Are you dim or just plain stupid.   A penalty is kick in the air - the ball is caught in the air - the catcher claims a mark - he gets a free kick to relieve the pressure.   Comprehende?
Any kick in the air in the 22 is BS - every coach in the world will tell you that.   It normally just a means to hand over possession.   The only kick that has a small chance of success is a cross kick - but even then it must be pin-point and that is not a forte of moist of our flyhalfs.   

 The issue about tackling and ball recovery is possible if you have three lossies who can always bring their part in tackling and ball recovery.  The problem is the team selection is normally wrong.   We select aa 7 who is no good in oth defense and ball recovery - Alberts is clumsy and fallss over his own feet - is a dubius tackler and has never in the past two years ever recover a ball from a tackle situation.     Burger is s;lightly better - but I would not call him a good ball recoverer in tckle ball situations.   
As long as we do not have three loosies that can perform all functions of a loosie - so long Mozart's dream will be a pipe-dream.   

Dave   
I agree with you about your priorities - even though I think that Louw is not a has been.  The rest should have never been in present squads and the fa ct that they are is indeed real BS.

 Louw is ok, but Brussouw, Carr, Coetzee, Kolisi and Kriel are better

Moz: the best approach is to have a team goal of securing turnovers at the tackle, all players being aware that when they tackle they try & expose the ball for the next arriving player to fetch it. I can't see what else can be programmed. Perhaps in situations like defending a rolling maul you can have guys who Designated Fletcher's & other players help him work through the centre of the maul to get to the ball. What other situations can be programmed?

 "as per normal a coward when it comes down to facts."

Oh really? Have I not backed up my statements with evidence? What more can I do really? I've done it all. The onus is now on you Michael, I merely offered to do the hard yards. You give me the time stamps and I'll bring it here. I'm not going to be doing any Matfield videos of my own because I believe you are incorrect, but if you have some form of evidence to prove otherwise produce it. When all is said and done Michael, you never back up your bold statements with anything other than twisted stories that never happened, eschewed statistics when it suits your agenda, or just unadulterated lies. Now as I say, the ball is in your court. You've made some extraordinary claims given that your Lambie argument was blown out of the water. 

Er Maaaaik....if you launch an up and under after a penalty is given, and it is marked, it acts just like a drop.....advantage  never occurred and the penalty is given. How embarrassing for you old chap.
Once again, would you care to apologize or are you going to slime away? 

 This is a joke in bad taste on the part of Letdsallbemorons.  Lets take the 8 points he raised to support the BS players he supports:-
1.  Kirchner was poor in 2013 - his normal self.    He was injured most of the Super 15 that year and never played a test since Willie's selection in June 2013 - bar once when he was on the bench and got booed by the crowd.   He never put anything over any players like Folau and Dagg.  His defense always was piss poor and so was his passing game.    An insult to have a player like him in the Springbok team.
3.   Fransie was so poor in Super 15 in 2013 that Plumtree said he is not a center - he was equally poor in 2014 - but was protected by Jake White.   The second worse defending center in Super 15 and the only center that never made a line break in all games at center in 2015 and in 17 games beat in all matches 11 defenders.    In other words - he should not be anywhere near the Sharks team - leave alone the Springbok team.         

5.   Just a simple question on Morne - if he is as good as you make him out to be - why is he not the first choice flyhalf of his club?   He probably is the worst flyhalf SA has had since 1992.   Du Preez has at best been average in the tests he played in in 2013 and 2014.   Way past his best and slow to boot.
6    Matfield is the best lock joke in world rugby - a weak player who is pushed out of the way with ease by fitter and better players.   Bakkies was correct - he said he could not compete with the younger locks - and Bakkies is a much better lock than Matfield.   Matfield last performed reasonably well in 2009 - after that he was a passenger and liability.
8    Alberts is a joke in bad taste.   His tackling is questionable - the Treeby tackling echnique was refined by him -  and his ball carrying the same.   He never does any tackle ball protection or recovery - is incapable of doing that - and his ball handling skills is mediocre - so what makes him a loosie?
To read your write-ups on players really is funny - the more useless they are, the higher the accolades.        

 This is a joke in bad taste on the part of Letdsallbemorons.  Lets take the 8 points he raised to support the BS players he supports:-
1.  Kirchner was poor in 2013 - his normal self.    He was injured most of the Super 15 that year and never played a test since Willie's selection in June 2013 - bar once when he was on the bench and got booed by the crowd.   He never put anything over any players like Folau and Dagg.  His defense always was piss poor and so was his passing game.    An insult to have a player like him in the Springbok team.
3.   Fransie was so poor in Super 15 in 2013 that Plumtree said he is not a center - he was equally poor in 2014 - but was protected by Jake White.   The second worse defending center in Super 15 and the only center that never made a line break in all games at center in 2015 and in 17 games beat in all matches 11 defenders.    In other words - he should not be anywhere near the Sharks team - leave alone the Springbok team.         

5.   Just a simple question on Morne - if he is as good as you make him out to be - why is he not the first choice flyhalf of his club?   He probably is the worst flyhalf SA has had since 1992.   Du Preez has at best been average in the tests he played in in 2013 and 2014.   Way past his best and slow to boot.
6    Matfield is the best lock joke in world rugby - a weak player who is pushed out of the way with ease by fitter and better players.   Bakkies was correct - he said he could not compete with the younger locks - and Bakkies is a much better lock than Matfield.   Matfield last performed reasonably well in 2009 - after that he was a passenger and liability.
8    Alberts is a joke in bad taste.   His tackling is questionable - the Treeby tackling echnique was refined by him -  and his ball carrying the same.   He never does any tackle ball protection or recovery - is incapable of doing that - and his ball handling skills is mediocre - so what makes him a loosie?
To read your write-ups on players really is funny - the more useless they are, the higher the accolades.        

As the egg drips yet again over the OOm's third chin, he tries to ignore the  yellow impasto.

 Mozart loves to ignore facts and whenever cornered becomes personal.      That story about Matfield  is true.  The man is for a p[layer his size a poor tackler - and worthless in Tight 5 play.   
Why not comment on your other favourites listed by me as well.   
When ver you write up a player or denigrates another - just believe th opposite of the drivel you wrote.

But let's stick with your mark after a penalty .....let me get this straight. A penalty is given, an up and under is kicked and the ball is marked. You say the mark is then given.Right?  

 Stupid - don't you understand when a mark is called following any kick being caught - a free kick is the outcome?   

Okay let's put it to the Board  

 Mozart
Lets face facts - a high kick from a penalty is the dumbest thing ever suggested on this Board.   I know Fransie and Morne are dumnb - but even they have not tried that stunt.    Fransie did make an aimles kick - one of far too many - and the kick was caught and a free kick resulted.    Morne made such a kick in the Perth test  - habitual with him and you know whathappened in that case.   
The answer is simple - a corner kick or a goal kick.- anything else is lunacy.

Wow Lestat you have set an early precedent for the biggest load of crap posted for 2015 thus far. Geez I have read some shit in my time but to infer that Meyer is the most cutting edge coach we have ever had is not only laughable it is highly insulting to rugby people like myself and fellow posters on here, you are a joke.......so in your eyes, I am out of touch with how modern test rugby is won and to the contrary our wonderful coach is in tune........the same coach who only managed 5 wins from 9 against the major sides in 2014.
And you expect me to take you seriously huh?
We have more quality depth at centre and tighthead than we have ever had and that's a fact......the issue is that our coach is too stupid to comprehend this very fact. He plays the best young 12 in the game in Jan out of position at 13 and discards a player like JJ after the best performance we have seen from a Bok 13 in a decade, not to mention the pathetic investment he showed in de Allende at 13, or is failure to recognise the talents of Stokkies Hanekom or his inability to think outside the box and recognise the potential of a player like Kobus v/Wyk at 13. Not to mention the left field introduction of a player like Andre Esterhuizen as a centre option. Hell not to mention Frans Steyn, Sadie, Frans Venter, Mnisi, Taute, Odendaal, Pat Howard, Tyler Fisher, Heimar Williams, Rohan Janse v/Rensburg, Dries Swanepoel, Sithole, Mapoe, Watermeyer, Vorster.......yeah I can see why you say we have nothing to work with at centre......hell when Jean and Fourie were in their prime.......we had nothing close to this kind of depth to work with.
Same can be said of tighthead......where Jannie is done, but in Coenie, Malherbe, Trevor, Maks v/Dyk, Redelinghuis, Dreyer and Marcel v/d Merwe we have more quality depth than in the days of Cobus Visagie, Willie Meyer, CJ, BJ and Balie Swart.
Weak stock of players you say, what utter garbage.......out depth is the best we have had since readmission and a quality coach would have us at number 1 spot right now with the talent we have at our disposal. 
Which players have I backed that he has selected and that have failed......dont speak shit. His selections are pathetic and his investment and faith in the younger players is non existent bar the odd obvious exception like Willie and Etzebeth......but even with Willie one senses an unease......he never selected him initially and only an injury brought him into the equation and now we hear his pathetic cries for the return of Kirchner......heaven help us.
So Reinach and Lambie cost us on the EOYT did they, what rubbish......would that be the same pair that won us the game against England and had Mallett telling us they should be proud of their performances?
Kirchner cant even make his club starting side in Ireland, he has done nothing of note in years.
Fourie better than the 9 tried by Meyer......ah yeah would that be the 13 meters he gained in 4 tests, not making a single break or beating a single defender on his last EOYT........huh? Get bloody real, Fourie is useless these days.......much like all the old players Meyer keeps investing in.....none more so that Matfield and Steenkamp and closely followed by useless Morne and passive Pienaar.
Fact is like you, Meyer has no idea at all and sells Bok rugby short in every way with his pathetic conservatism. Meyer is no better that PDV and he was useless.

 "We have more quality depth at centre and tighthead than we have ever had and that's a fact"

Really? At one point we had Fourie, Jean, Barry and Joubert with Ettien Botha and Olivier in the wings. Now we have Jean and Frans exiled. de Jongh is no Fourie but you don't rate him and yet he was the only one that measured up as an alternative. At tighthead we have Jannie. Of all test playing nations we must have the worst stock of tightheads and this goes back well over a decade. No Saffex, our stupid coach has thrown caps out left, right and centre and nobody is delivering.

"out depth is the best we have had since readmission and a quality coach would have us at number 1 spot right now with the talent we have at our disposal."

Incorrect, our peak for player quality was between 2007 and 2009. Our locks, props, centres and halfbacks are very poor. We have two test quality fullbacks, one test quality centre, two test quality flyhalfs, one dependable scrumhalf, only three test quality locks, two iffy looseheads, 1 tighthead. Not great. Most of the players you hail have failed.

"Which players have I backed that he has selected and that have failed"

Bekker, Juandre, Goosen, JJ, Taute, Lambie, Reinach, JP (13), Werner Kruger, De Allende (you did say he should be selected earlier in the year), Mvovo, Serfontein, Oosthuizen, Jantjies. Others I'm pretty sure you praised were Vermaak, Kankowski, Cilliers. There must be a few more.

"So Reinach and Lambie cost us on the EOYT did they, what rubbish......would that be the same pair that won us the game against England and had Mallett telling us they should be proud of their performances?"

Go watch my video again Saffex. Here's the glory of Lambie:



"Kirchner cant even make his club starting side in Ireland, he has done nothing of note in years."

I don't know anything about his stint in Ireland. I am however telling you what he did for the Boks! That stands exactly as I said.

"Fourie better than the 9 tried by Meyer......ah yeah would that be the 13 meters he gained in 4 tests, not making a single break or beating a single defender on his last EOYT........huh?"

Do you mean 13? Anyway, he combined very well for a crucial try with Du Preez, he shored yp defence which had been a turnstile before the EOYT. He was no worse on attack than JJ who offered nothing. Statistically he is the best 13 under Meyer's tenure right up to this very day.

"Fact is like you, Meyer has no idea at all and sells Bok rugby short in every way with his pathetic conservatism."

Fact is Meyer has made many very bold selections, given an enormous number of caps out to find what he needs. Very few are delivering. His tried 6 flyhalves and at least 9 outside centres alone! How much more adventurous can he be? Good Lord Saffex, he even changed our patterns and game-plan to accommodate Goosen in 2012. I ask again, what more can he do?

Oh what bullshit, Joubert was before Fourie and Barry was bloody average and Ettienne Botha was at best a nice little provincial centre much like de Jongh is. Kindly point out in which test de Jongh measured up as an alternative.......that assertion in itself sums your rugby up in a nutshell......you are clueless.
Name a better performance with ball in hand by a SA 13 than JJ's in his last test against the Kiwi's? Its clear de Allende looks to have the same potential as a Kurandrani does for Oz at 13 and good old Meyer gave him all of 2 starts was it? And in those starts he was hardly poor......that is just how poor Meyer is with his investment, faith and player management......he is piss poor.
Name the back-up tightheads of all the test nations currently playing and try come tell me our depth is not better than every single one of them. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.......it is blatantly clear you just make things up. But prove me wrong and name the tightheads out there that are dominating, but better still who are their back-ups that are better than ours. This sounds as accurate as Joubert being about at the time Fourie was.....there was a bit of an overlap, but Fourie effectively replaced Joubert.
Bullshit, our stock of players now are better than they have ever been.......name a better group of locks at a given period than Etzebeth, Flip, PSDT, Willemse, Lood, Lewies, Kleyn, Ruan Botha, Roux, Peet Marais, Jandre Marais, Mostert, Wegner etc........give it your best shot. The same can be said of props, centres and the like.
Stop lying your list of failures have NOT failed unless your credit useless Meyer with his lack of investment as the measure. So Serfontein has failed has he? Wow how stupid are you? But more irritating is your lack of facts.......do you think that by slapping a name on a list like Cilliers, that somehow that is going to carry some weight? Of my list only Werner Kruger failed and I conceded that ages ago - FACT.
Yes Fourie gained all of thirteen metres in 4 tests on his last EOYT - and you bullshit us that he has been better than the others that have played there. Your standards are pathetically low, but more than anything you just lie.
Meyer is a average to poor coach who has made very few bold decisions. Most his decisions revolve around the investment of a bunch of washed up hasbeens. He sells us short in a big way and with him we wont get past the quarters in the WC.
What more can he do you ask......he should do the honourable and resign

 *Yawn*

 In the same test that JJ blew our chances of not only winning the test, but the RC.

Not such a mystery when you consider the clueless fool that made that decision. It's the same fool who is selling Bok rugby short. Unless of course 5 wins out of 9 against the major nations does it for you?
But back to my point, name a better attacking performance by a Bok 13, than JJ s again the Kiwi s the best side in the game?
Lestat  everything about your posts is a yawn of ignorance.....you know fuck all