France England Game

Sun Tzu

Plisson was with the French national team training camp and not available to play for Stade Francais.  So no answer and explanation given.

Let me explain something else to you.  I have followed Morne Steyn's career from the fiurst day I saw him playing on TV in the Under 21 WC in Argentina.   He was so bad that he nearly lost the game for the youngsters and he never converted one kick at goal.  His pivot play was atrocious that day.

Since then -

*   he improved his kicking at goal; and

*   his pivot play never improved and remained a negative. 

Matter of fact Saffex is correct - if it was not for his goalkicking he would not have been in the Bulls team and his selection to the Springbok team - also based solely on his goalkicking - was a serious mistake that cost us dearly ever since.  A flyhalf has to have ball sense and instinctive decision making - something Morne has zero of. 

I can hardly believe that there are people who have seen Morne play for years - who do not realise that.     

Mozart

Another generalized sweeping statement which credit Morne Steyn only with improved performances by the Sptingboks against the AB's - comparative to previous series.   This type of sweeping statement equates with -

is the moon made of Green cheese?  Absolute baloney.

Mike

Comparing Morne's stats from one game to suit your childish little argument is pathetic.

Sometimes I tend to agree with Saffex's view on certain rugby issues but he is also wrong about Morne, but that's his opinion.

As much as he hates Morne, not even Saffex resorts to the under handed tactics you do by comparing one game to criticise a player.

Sies man !!, grow up, and try and be a bit more non biased with your "facts"  !! 

36.36% anyway you look at it is damn poor and as I keep saying, Morne is one of the prime reasons we have never progressed beyond 2nd spot.

Fofana started his rugby career at 88kg, that was years ago.....he now weighs 93kg....much like Etzebeth started at 117kg and is now 125kg  

"Let me explain something else to you.  I have followed Morne Steyn's career from the fiurst day I saw him playing on TV in the Under 21 WC in Argentina.   He was so bad that he nearly lost the game for the youngsters and he never converted one kick at goal.  His pivot play was atrocious that day."

Ou Maaikie uses his own advice only when it suits him. In the above-mentioned paragraph, the following advice (his own advice) doesn't suit his agenda:

"Ceradyne

You have lost the plot fucking long ago you stupid idiot. When we had our dispute after Morne Steyn's first appearance for Stade Francaise I told you that you were totally wrong about Morne's performance in that game. You said that I was lying and I gave you a breakdown supported by a videoclip and still you did not believe your own eyes. I also told you that Plisson had a good game. You told me that that was BS and that Plisson was average at best. You have, since that argument, sung Plisson's praises on a number of occasions and when I reminded you that you said that he was average at best, you denied that as well saying that I was lying and that I should quote you. I did and you once again, and as usual, when dead silent about it.

Now you take one game where Morne Steyn's defence was crap and you keep on hammering on that same tune, completely discarding any other performance by the guy. You use that game to compare Steyn's defence to that of Plisson. When it suits you, you remind us that it was Plisson's first test, yet you refuse to compare apples with apples by using Steyn's defensive efforts in his first test to that of Plisson. Jy moet 'n slag die kak uit jou oë uitvee ou Beesblaas.

 Mozart

De Jongh did not slip a bit last year - he slipped totally as from 2011.   in 2011 and 2012 he scored a total of three tries in both Super 15 and CC games.   He actually was better in that Department in 2013 during which he managed to score 3 tries as well.   But that was from a low level he maintained in the previous two years.   I did not keep a count on his missed tackle ratio  in 2011-12 - but what he did then is likely to be equal  to what he achieved last year - ie 28%

There was also a slight improvement in ball retention last year compared to the previous two years - De Jongh knocked on fewer balls - he lost possession less and he gave away less penalties through hanging on to balls then he did in 2011 and 2012.  A slight improvement - but still not satisfactory.

He was very poor in the tests he played in in 2012 - matter of fact you are fully aware of the poor performances in the two tests in the UK and the try he threw away in the Aussie test when he came off the bench in 2012 - so if he was slipping a bit last year - he was bloody awful in 2012 - so last year must have been the pits insofar as his performances  is concerned.  This guy is one player that should never play on Super 15 level - he is just not good enough on that level and there are serious question marks about CC as well.   .    

 Mozart

De Jongh did not slip a bit last year - he slipped totally as from 2011.   in 2011 and 2012 he scored a total of three tries in both Super 15 and CC games.   He actually was better in that Department in 2013 during which he managed to score 3 tries as well.   But that was from a low level he maintained in the previous two years.   I did not keep a count on his missed tackle ratio  in 2011-12 - but what he did then is likely to be equal  to what he achieved last year - ie 28%

There was also a slight improvement in ball retention last year compared to the previous two years - De Jongh knocked on fewer balls - he lost possession less and he gave away less penalties through hanging on to balls then he did in 2011 and 2012.  A slight improvement - but still not satisfactory.

He was very poor in the tests he played in in 2012 - matter of fact you are fully aware of the poor performances in the two tests in the UK and the try he threw away in the Aussie test when he came off the bench in 2012 - so if he was slipping a bit last year - he was bloody awful in 2012 - so last year must have been the pits insofar as his performances  is concerned.  This guy is one player that should never play on Super 15 level - he is just not good enough on that level and there are serious question marks about CC as well.   .    

Both from ESPNscrum. These two guys could be twins. Hell their birth dates are only three months apart. And de Jongh is the younger talent. I'm afraid you have lost this one Dave.

 Mozart

You state that both centers have the same physique - bit according to wikipedia there is a lsight difference:

*    Fofana     -     1,78 - 90 kgs

*   De Jongh   -    1,75 -  88 kgs

I used the reference to Wikipedia - since you refer to it previously.

However, I accept the ESPB info - but there is one thing these two are not and that us "rugby twins".  There is a massive difference in performance between these two players.  Fofana is a clever player who punch way above his size and consequently an international center of repute.  De Jongh has limited performance capacities - which shows that he should never be on international playing level and even Super 15 is really beyond his reach..      

To emphasize that one - lets look at the stats of the two players - in their latest test matches against England:-

From the above it is clear to me - one is a rugby player  - the other a zero

 Mozart

According to ESPN they have a similar physique - according to wiki there is a difference as I mentioned above. 

I really do not care about their similarity in size - and the arguments on that score.   What I do care about is the one is a proven international player - based on proven performances - the other is nothing of the kind.

Even though  they may be of the same size - there is no comparison between them as to performance on the rugby field,  The one is an international player - the other should play on Vodacom Cup level - nothing higher.    That is the crux of the issue. 

The Truth

Numbskull - it is a old jargon that one - blame somebody else for the shortcomings of a player.   Morne was shit in Dunedin in 2012 - not Pienaar - or do you blame Pienaar for all the missed kicks at goal.  Morne was shit at Eden park - is Pienaar to blame for the penalty kicks where Morne failed to find touch.  Is Du Preez to blame for all Morne's missed tackles at Ellis Park.   Is the latter to blame for shit decision making at Ellis Park leading to Messam's second try?

If you analyse every test Morne played in you would find the same things - poor decision making, poor option taking and a poor pivot functioning .   Pienaar may have his faults - but at least he is the front line scrummie for Ulster - not the back up flyhalf for Stade Francais like Morne is.

The Truth

Numbskull - it is a old jargon that one - blame somebody else for the shortcomings of a player.   Morne was shit in Dunedin in 2012 - not Pienaar - or do you blame Pienaar for all the missed kicks at goal.  Morne was shit at Eden park - is Pienaar to blame for the penalty kicks where Morne failed to find touch.  Is Du Preez to blame for all Morne's missed tackles at Ellis Park.   Is the latter to blame for shit decision making at Ellis Park leading to Messam's second try?

If you analyse every test Morne played in you would find the same things - poor decision making, poor option taking and a poor pivot functioning .   Pienaar may have his faults - but at least he is the front line scrummie for Ulster - not the back up flyhalf for Stade Francais like Morne is.