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Gelant at 100kg

Started by Saffolk 59 REPLIES2,422 VIEWS· 08 Mar 2016, 13:35
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 13:35
#1
08 Mar 2016, 13:35#1
That's what the stats had him at on Supersport
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 16:59
#2
08 Mar 2016, 16:59#2
 Kriel at 100kgs. Dave how come you only have a backline weight phobia and you love all these tiny flanks.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:13
#3
08 Mar 2016, 17:13#3

100kg for an openside is a good weight......Jaco is 102kg


Opensides like Louw, Coetzee, Robshaw and Coetzee are just too big for the roles - all 112kg plus  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:20
#4
08 Mar 2016, 17:20#4
So McCaw at 110 is too heavy. Or is there a magic band from 100 to 110 which is ok, but 112 isn't? And of course Pocock at 115kgs was just a horrible open sider. Hahaha...what tripe. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:31
#5
08 Mar 2016, 17:31#5

Richie is anything but your classic openside......and only weighed 105kg


Oh boy Moz you are so out of your league......Pocock muscled up to 115kg and ended up at 8......has not played 6 for years. Weighed 105kg when he played 6


Glad to be of service

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:42
#6
08 Mar 2016, 17:42#6
 Richie is not an open sider.......bwahahaha haha.....I bet 90% of the World's best teams of the last 10 years have had Richie  at open side. And I just checked his weight ....it's consistently listed at 108kgs.
Down you go again.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:46
#7
08 Mar 2016, 17:46#7

I said he was not a classic 6, not big on stealing, not big on linking


And no he did not weigh 108kg......most of the stats over the years had him at 100kg


Was about 105kg by end of his time.....was never one for gym work

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 17:51
#8
08 Mar 2016, 17:51#8
 Enjoy your crow, I'm off to swing the club
McCaw in 2011Full nameRichard Hugh McCawDate of birth31 December 1980 (age 35)Place of birthOamaruNorth Otago, New ZealandHeight188 cm (6 ft 2 in)Weight108 kg (17 st 0 lb)SchoolOtago Boys' High SchoolUniversityLincoln University
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 21:19
#9
08 Mar 2016, 21:19#9
You had him at 110, I said 105....your example say 108....I'll give you the 1. Point is Richie in his prime was always listed as 100kg...never above 105kg.
Your best opensides are around the 100 to 105kg mark. Hooper, Jaco Kriel, Brussouw, George Smith, Waugh, Armitage, Cane, Warburton, Tupuric, Dusseltoi le ad the list
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 22:26
#10
08 Mar 2016, 22:26#10
 More egg

flankers (in no particular order)

Richie McCaw: 142 caps and counting, McCaw is a true leader of men who has so often made the right decisions at the right time in big matches. With 27 tries, he has unrivalled knowledge of the sport and knows how to push to the limits without getting on the wrong side of the officials.

Michael Hooper: What he does with such a small frame is admirable. Hooper doesn't just make countless tackles in matches, he smashes opponents to win the gainline battle. He also possesses searing pace that causes both forwards and backs real problems when he backs himself on a carry.

David Pocock: Arguably the number one openside of 2015 so far as he has shone for both the Brumbies and Wallabies. Pocock combines outstanding work at the breakdown with powerful carries. Expect to see him and Hooper combine in a formidable combination for Australia in this World Cup.

Sam Cane: Made his Super Rugby debut aged 18 and All Black bow two years later. Cane has 24 Tests to his name and if not for McCaw would have plenty more as the Chiefs man boasts real dynamism with ball in hand combined with a steeliness at the ruck. The All Blacks' seven in waiting.

Schalk Burger: What can we say about the player both on and off the field? Highly respected by his rivals and team-mates, he has fought back from bacterial meningitis and enjoyed an outstanding season for the Stormers, adding greater link play and skills to his arsenal. A top flank.

Francois Louw: If not already the South African will surely go on to be rated as one of the best imports to the Premiership. Put simply, Louw has every tool required to be a top back-row forward and it's no coincidence that Bath's rise up England's ranks followed after his arrival.

Thierry Dusautoir: Arguably only McCaw has achieved more than Dusautoir on this list, and the 2011 World Player of the Year remains the benchmark in the northern hemisphere. It's hard to think of any player who has offered more defensively, and if the best players show up on the biggest stage, then Dusautoir's an all-time great.

Sam Warburton: It's amazing to think that Warburton is still only 26 years old, with the Welsh captain bursting onto the scene so young. He has already captained the Lions to a series victory and Wales to two Six Nations titles including a Grand Slam in 2012, while he also has unfinished business at World Cups.

Sean O'Brien: Certainly not what you would call a traditional openside, but O'Brien is probably the best ball-carrier on this list. While injuries have hindered him over the last couple of seasons, he bounced back strongly in the Six Nations, and has shown his ability to win turnover ball at crucial moments as well. He will take some stopping at the World Cup.

Steffon Armitage: England have deemed him surplus to requirements, and they will be hoping that decision doesn't come back to haunt them. Undersized he may be, but Armitage's low centre of gravity makes him nigh on impossible to shift when he clamps down on the ball at the breakdown. The 2014 European Player of the Year will likely end his career with only five caps though.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:03
#11
08 Mar 2016, 23:03#11
Staggeringly mature.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:20
#12
08 Mar 2016, 23:20#12
 What are you on about. Just because they feature on a list does that make Louw and Burger good opensides huh?
Louw has never been a good 6 just like Schalk never was. Schalk plated his best rugby at 7 last year. Louw should have played 7. Both are average 6s because they are far too big and cumbersome for the role.
The list is out of date last time Pocock played 6 was pre his long injury layoff. During that lay off he bulked up and came back as an 8.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:33
#13
08 Mar 2016, 23:33#13
 Hahaha just as I thought sucker. Here is the complete headline....I set up a little sting because I can read you like a book. Egg flows:

Ten best openside flankers (in no particular order)

Richie McCaw: 142 caps and counting, McCaw is a true leader of men who has so often made the right decisions at the right time in big matches. With 27 tries, he has unrivalled knowledge of the sport and knows how to push to the limits without getting on the wrong side of the officials.

Michael Hooper: What he does with such a small frame is admirable. Hooper doesn't just make countless tackles in matches, he smashes opponents to win the gainline battle. He also possesses searing pace that causes both forwards and backs real problems when he backs himself on a carry.

David Pocock: Arguably the number one openside of 2015 so far as he has shone for both the Brumbies and Wallabies. Pocock combines outstanding work at the breakdown with powerful carries. Expect to see him and Hooper combine in a formidable combination for Australia in this World Cup.

Sam Cane: Made his Super Rugby debut aged 18 and All Black bow two years later. Cane has 24 Tests to his name and if not for McCaw would have plenty more as the Chiefs man boasts real dynamism with ball in hand combined with a steeliness at the ruck. The All Blacks' seven in waiting.

Schalk Burger: What can we say about the player both on and off the field? Highly respected by his rivals and team-mates, he has fought back from bacterial meningitis and enjoyed an outstanding season for the Stormers, adding greater link play and skills to his arsenal. A top flank.

Francois Louw: If not already the South African will surely go on to be rated as one of the best imports to the Premiership. Put simply, Louw has every tool required to be a top back-row forward and it's no coincidence that Bath's rise up England's ranks followed after his arrival.

Thierry Dusautoir: Arguably only McCaw has achieved more than Dusautoir on this list, and the 2011 World Player of the Year remains the benchmark in the northern hemisphere. It's hard to think of any player who has offered more defensively, and if the best players show up on the biggest stage, then Dusautoir's an all-time great.

Sam Warburton: It's amazing to think that Warburton is still only 26 years old, with the Welsh captain bursting onto the scene so young. He has already captained the Lions to a series victory and Wales to two Six Nations titles including a Grand Slam in 2012, while he also has unfinished business at World Cups.

Sean O'Brien: Certainly not what you would call a traditional openside, but O'Brien is probably the best ball-carrier on this list. While injuries have hindered him over the last couple of seasons, he bounced back strongly in the Six Nations, and has shown his ability to win turnover ball at crucial moments as well. He will take some stopping at the World Cup.

Steffon Armitage: England have deemed him surplus to requirements, and they will be hoping that decision doesn't come back to haunt them. Undersized he may be, but Armitage's low centre of gravity makes him nigh on impossible to shift when he clamps down on the ball at the breakdown. The 2014 European Player of the Year will likely end his career with only five caps though.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:36
#14
08 Mar 2016, 23:36#14
 What the hell is your major malfunction Plum?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:46
#15
08 Mar 2016, 23:46#15
Ah so because that list says Louw and Schalk feature as the best opensides we should take that as gospel?
This from a plonker who has Pocock as an openside when the guy is playing 8.
Fantastic stuff Moz.
For the record Armitage has played most of his games at 8 for Toulon. He us better suited to 6 but fact is he has been playing 8.
Not to mention the fact that Schalk has played 7 for how long now?
So who was the plonker that compiled this list? A real expert no doubt?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Mar 2016, 23:54
#16
08 Mar 2016, 23:54#16
Planet Rugby expanding on Neil Back's views.....but read this, another list that has Richie tops and includes Louw. Seems you are on your own....still a good soothing cream will help with that sting...hehehe.
http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/bbarry/ranking-worlds-top-ten-openside-flankers/
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2016, 00:01
#17
09 Mar 2016, 00:01#17
 Well it's a poor article given 3 of the players don't even play openside anymore.
Louw is not a good openside...one of the reasons we failed under Meyer is because we never had a true 6 and a big reason Bath are fighting off relegation this season.
Richie would feature in a top 10 list even though I have never rated him as a 6.....but he is a better 6 than Louw and Schalk.
Your sting made no impression given how inaccurate the article is 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2016, 00:14
#18
09 Mar 2016, 00:14#18
 Louw

Went toe to toe with McCaw at the breakdown where he was the dominant force in the first half. Not quite the same impact in the second but could not be faulted. 8



Louw the dominant force at the breakdown in the first half of the WC quarter final. But you just keep on bleating about how he can't compete on the ground.
Louw wasn't a reason we failed, he was a reason we got so close.
Any relief yet?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2016, 00:19
#19
09 Mar 2016, 00:19#19
 And from the Roar

Zealand

Standing at six feet, two inches McCaw is the personification of ‘Warrior Flanker.’ He looks naturally at home with a bandaged head, strapped knee and a slight trickle of blood from his nose.

A hard man; this is easy to understand when you know McCaw’s roots are steeped in the borders of Scotland whose history spared only the brave and cunning. If Richie were living around 1300 I am sure he’d lend William Wallace an able sword. 

McCaw’s battlefield, however, has been elsewhere, from Lansdowne Road to what was Lancaster Park, and rarely has McCaw tasted defeat. McCaw’s record of 100 test victories in 112 matches with a winning percentage of 89.28% is a record that will stand the test of time and likely never to be bested.

McCaw is more than statistic though. He is unbeatable in himself. In the dozen times the All Blacks lost with him in the team I would find it hard to say McCaw himself was beaten by his opponent, at best they achieved parity with him.

McCaw has a rare ability to quickly understand the ebb and flow of a game and adapt to it. He feels what the referee will and will not allow and plays his game accordingly. Some call it cheating; this is openside rugby and McCaw is simply better at this than anyone else. 

McCaw’s magnificent moment for me was the 2011 Rugby World Cup. It is now understood how badly injured McCaw’s foot was, yet like the warrior McCaw is he just got on with the job of winning.

Even when Aurelien Rougerie took to McCaw’s eyes with his fingers like a bride looking for her lost wedding ring in deep sand, McCaw just got to his feet like the champion he is, effectively telling the French “Is that the best you’ve got?” 

Well Richie for me you’re the best there has ever been in the number seven.

Do you agree with this article? Think you know your sport? Well, show us. Leave us a comment, or better yet, register with us and write an article in response.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Mar 2016, 00:22
#20
09 Mar 2016, 00:22#20
 From the Telegraph
Greatest Rugby World Cup: openside flanker profiles - Richie McCaw

Richie McCaw is one of the leading players of the modern game and one of the finest openside flankers in history. However, the argument put against the New Zealand forward is that he has never starred on the biggest stage – the World Cup.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2016, 09:49
#21
09 Mar 2016, 09:49#21
You can produce all the articles you like it won't change the fact that Louw is not an openside. Too big, too cumbersome, too slow for the role. Should have been a 7.
Playing him ahead of Jaco Kriel is part of the reason Meyer failed.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Mar 2016, 09:54
#22
09 Mar 2016, 09:54#22
You can produce all the articles you like it won't change the fact that Louw is not an openside. Too big, too cumbersome, too slow for the role. Should have been a 7.
Playing him ahead of Jaco Kriel is part of the reason Meyer failed.
Your best 6s are the smaller guys...Kriel and Hooper stand tall
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Mar 2016, 10:15
#23
09 Mar 2016, 10:15#23
@Saffex. You're gonna get the same tired arguments from people. Remember last year when everyone said "Yeah the Lions are good but let's see how they do on tour."?Then remember last week when people said "Yeah the Lions beat the Sunwolves but let's see how they do against the Chiefs. Remember, they've never won there." Before the WC peoppe said it was better to go with the tried and tested. Look where it got us? A terrible and demotivating campaign where we performed well only against teams that we should beat by 50 on any given day with our B side. A game against Wales that was a disgrace and one of the ugliest semis I've ever watched. A game where I actually felt sorry for most of the players. NOT FOR MATFIELD, JUAN, MORNE OR RUAN! Until Jaco pulls the green and gold jersey over his head there will always be doubters. Two games into his career Bok fans will suddenly ask themselves how we ever left this guys out. Prejudice against the Lions and Cheetahs by Meyer, that's why. Louw is a good player but he dissapears in games, so does Marcel. People say Jantjies blows hot and cold but they'll never asses our loosies the same way. Duane was for me, the only truly consistent loosie that featured in the WC. The good news is this Saffex. Future Louws and Marcels who are big and athletic and are at school now are watching Jaco Kriel play. That meme will propagate and it's only a matter of time before we see more players like him coming through the ranks. After all...if you were a 16 year old loose forward playing in a school league, who'd you wanna be? I doubt Louw's name even enters the conversation.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2016, 10:40
#24
09 Mar 2016, 10:40#24
Can we just agree that anyone who even mentions the excellent Jaco Kriel and the bog-ordinary Francois Louw in the same breath doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't warrant any further attention or consideration when it comes to discussions on loose forwards?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Mar 2016, 11:18
#25
09 Mar 2016, 11:18#25
 richie mcaaaw was NEVER to my recollection 100kg! A figment of ou snapsters imagination. I have seen him at 105 kg and 107 kg.Any kbbs care to chip in.Bog ordinary Louw hahahhahahahahahahaha.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Mar 2016, 12:49
#26
09 Mar 2016, 12:49#26
 Gelant is looking promising. He has the athletic ability and all he needs to demonstrate at the top level is mental ability re decision making and nerve.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 20:16
#27
09 Mar 2016, 20:16#27
McCaw, best player of all time, usually played 105 kgs (but in early days played at around 100 kgs according to my memory. I see wikipedia & ESPN & other sources list him at 108 kgs but that's probably an SA ruckersforum poster who added that stat. He aded weight in later years as his role shifted to being a key defended, his tackle count was extraordinary.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2016, 20:21
#28
09 Mar 2016, 20:21#28
Don't think Richie McCaw was even the best All Black of all time let alone best player.
Best All Black ever for me was Sean Fitzpatrick with Christian Cullen second and Richie, Michael Jones, Zinzan Brooke, Ian Kirkpatrick and Dan Carter fighting it out for third.
PS Colin Meads was before my time.
PPS I know there is at least one slack-jawed half-wit on this board who doesn't understand the differe nce between "best" player and "favourite" player, but just for the record, my favourite All Blacks were Christian Cullen and Frank Bunce . . . and Grant Batty . . . and Jonah . . .
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 20:29
#29
09 Mar 2016, 20:29#29
 Rooinek. depends how you define "greatest", number of wins, number of wins as captain, number of world cups, etc. I won''t cite all the stats here but here is a link to an incredible list:
McCaw achievements
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2016, 20:34
#30
09 Mar 2016, 20:34#30
Well in Fitzpatrick's case, I base it on his general play, his leadership as well as being the All Black captain who finally achieved what no other All Black captain had achieved in nearly a century . . . a series win in South Africa.
You can quote me McCaw's achievements until the cow s come home, that's nowhere near as impressive as this
Edit: I never tire of watching that collection. #4, #12, #17, #18, #29, #40 and #41 are all tries that no-one else would have scored.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
09 Mar 2016, 21:21
#31
09 Mar 2016, 21:21#31
 McCaw had the pleasure of playing against a race based Bok team in most of his Bok tests. Fitzie is a good call for best AB in the pro era. The chips fell right for McC.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 21:49
#32
09 Mar 2016, 21:49#32
 Rooi, Cullen was a fantastic player but a bit one dimensional to qualify as greatest ever.
DB, you can only play against the opposition put in front of you. It will take time to put McCaw in perspective historically but he has one hell of an achievement list.
I wonder what Cloudy thinks
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Mar 2016, 21:51
#33
09 Mar 2016, 21:51#33
 Its hard to choose between fitzpatrick and wee mcaaaw as both were serial cheaters with mcaaaw probably pipping it. BwahahahahahahahahaNz must feel great shame at their goings on!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 21:55
#34
09 Mar 2016, 21:55#34
 Beeno, who let you out of Side swipes Your prison term for maligning innocent NZ rugby players is not fully served yet. Don't try & give us that line about released because of good behavior
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Mar 2016, 22:29
#35
09 Mar 2016, 22:29#35
 I agree McCaw was a great player - nobody can argue about it.
I saw McCaw playing in matches before he became an AB player  and thought that he was star quality.   From that date I watched matches he played in with interest.  Of importance that was different from what is written above.  Let me be more explicit on the issue:
*   McCaw's weight was consistently given as 102kgs throughout his playing career until he went on a sabbatical;
*   Upon his return from his sabbatical it was found that during the said period his weight increased to 108 kgs and in subsequent stats that weight was concerned.
I even needled some AB supporters on the issue pointing out that McCaw is now fat and slow.   Although McCaw was not called fat -  fact is that there was a visible loss of space.  He increasingly became penalized for the mere fact that he was later at mauls and he was later at mauls than he used to and than did what he did for years without him being  penalized.   
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 22:37
#36
09 Mar 2016, 22:37#36
 CleverMike, McCaw was heavier because that was required for the role the AB coaches decided he would play (more defensive - which was required but also necessitated because of loss of spead due to aging). Plus he had to be bigger to deal with SA and NH forwards. There is no way a professional like McCaw would not control his weight.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Mar 2016, 22:52
#37
09 Mar 2016, 22:52#37
Christian Cullen one-dimensional? Ummmm . . . one-dimensional as in all he ever did was score lots of long-range tries?
Edit: Oh and I didn't call him the greatest ever, I actually called him the second greatest All Black ever. 
Even if I did call him the greatest ever All Black (which I didn't), please note that's not the same as greatest ever. It's only you Kiwis who automatically assume greatest All Black is the same as greatest ever. 
Whoever the greatest All Black is, he's not quite up there with the likes of Gareth Edwards, Danie Gerber, Fergus Slattery and Hennie Muller.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Mar 2016, 23:00
#38
09 Mar 2016, 23:00#38
 In that he was of the best / most elusive runners ever. Smooth as silk & deceptively fast. But he did not did not have the all around game some others had, not that he needed it, but this reduces his overall rating as a candidate for the "greatest" rugby players ever".
McCaw showed he could evolve his game, plus he showed he was a fantastic Captain.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Mar 2016, 20:25
#39
10 Mar 2016, 20:25#39
 No doubt Kriel has been impressive in CC and some S15 games. But Whiteley was more impressive against the Chiefs...and how did he look in his international matches....woefully ordinary.
At international level, everybody plays flat out. Size does matter. So I suppose Kriel will get his chance, and deserves a shot just in case. But I fully expect it to be a bridge too far...just as it was for Watson, just as it was for Whiteley, just as it was for Daniels.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Mar 2016, 20:29
#40
10 Mar 2016, 20:29#40
 Cullen was moved to centre  in the 99 WC and hardly set the house on fire. He was moved there in part because he had a weak boot. So if he couldn't run in traffic at centre, but couldn't stay at 15 in really serious rugby like  a WC .....he remains just a fine runner in space. For me his myth kinda popped when Breyton Paulse easily hauled him in from behind.
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