Greatest Ever Springbok Centres

Jean was run over a few times in his career. Note the wording, a few. It wasn't a running trend. Serf is not the flaccid barbie doll that Damian is, but he had problems. He was put out at 13 for good reason. 

I'll give you this much. Serf is the closest thing we had to Jean in terms of on field rugby iq and organisational ability. He was and is a smart player, hence he succeeded at 13, where reading play is so critical. I'm not saying he is a dud. I just don't rate what I saw. All I have seen of his recent games was a couple of highlight videos. Those are nice for enjoyment, but worthless for analysing a player. I was impressed by what I saw of Frans too, but he definitely lost a bit of himself when he was with the Boks. Serfontein was always better than Damian though. Always. He was short changed in my opinion. 

Mozart is a strange guy and mostly wrong.  The Idiot Speaker AO blamed Erasmus for the Stormers poor backline performances when Erasmus was working for SARU as Director of Rugby, That shows how skewed his ideas are, 

Then he carries on about De Allende.  In the WC De Allende was often first receiver of the ball to carry it over the gain line - which he regularly did.   He ensured that the ball came back and  there was no turnovers,  Other than that he had a good game and was crucial in the move that ended up in the last penalty converted  by Pollard just before halftime.  

Then we have P-S du Toit.    He was the best player in the world in 2019 and was worthy of the honour.   This guy was to my mind the best rugby player we had since re-admission in 1992.   Experts see what he brings to the game - prejudiced idiots do not.                

Esterhuizen is unquestionably our best 12. Nobody comes even remotely close to him. Who is next? That's up for debate. I'd have less problem with Serf being next in line, as the cupboard is bare after Andre. Damian we know cannot play test rugby. As for an example 6 years ago? What other reference does he have? And it was indeed a running trend. He was comprehensively overpowered against Wales. Do you honestly think that didn't leave an impression on Meyer? He solved a problem at 13 and that helped steady the team, but his physicality issues facing head on power kept resurfacing at Super rugby level. Why would this have changed now? Is he stronger, did he change body type? Esterhuizen can be relied upon to stop every opponent from 1 to 15 dead in their tracks on his own. No support tackles required. He also tracks movement better than most of our players, killing entire sequences of plays with well timed tackles many metres in front of the gainline. Serf can never do that. Whilst Serf did have good skills, Andre's passing is miles ahead of every other back in South Africa. The two best distributors in South African rugby right now are Andre and RG. 

AO

I sympathize with you - you gave out fairytale stories  and where you believe things are 100% correct the fact you it is dream-world stuff and nothing practical to it.  As to Esterhuizen he is a good Super Rugby player/   As to test level he is just not up to test standard,   Let me explain a bit further

Erasmus gave him games to prove that he has the test level ability required and he failed in that,  Erasmus analyzed matches and he is an expert to see where players strong points are and where they fall short.   So where is the shortfalls in Esterhuizen?  Probably in defense on test level where he ,missed too many tackles in tests compared to De Allende.   Esterhuizen tends to lose possession once tackled and has pace problems as well.  

Unlike his predecessors Erasmus had a scientific approach to rugby,   He studied all the players and find what they are capable of,  He identified the key players he can use in the game plan which he defined and coach the players to play to attain top success  He also studied the opposing teams and decided on key players to exploit the weaknesses in those teams.  Based on that he picked players that fit into that game plan and who can deliver,   

His key players in the squad were the following :-

*   Willie le Roux at full back to be first receiver under certain circumstances

*    Damian de Allende to do the same and make the high number of tackles and carry over the gainline for which he is known for and make sure possession is retained

*     Pollard as ba ckline pivot

*     Vermeulen to cover kicks and for strong ball carries

*     Du Toit is a link player and a wrecking ball who destroyed the functioning of the opposing backlines.

*     Mtawarira and Malherbe to rule in the scrums/

Erasmus also had Mostert in his plans - but he was poor in the RC and in the WC game against the AB's,   He fell into the bench category as a result.

Esterhuizen did not make the grade and the fact is that Steyn was ahead of him on the dirt tracker bomb squad.   Steyn was higher regarded than Esterhuizen as a center cover, but was only used at center against the weakest teams they and to face, but never in the play-offs.  In the latter games he was on the bench - but used at full back,   Ahead of Esterhuizen in the que  was also Willemse.

Erasmus is not a fool - he knows what players are capable of and what are  their strong and weak points,   Esterhuizen despite all your dream statements fell short of criterium and I doubt whether he will play in tests in future,   The secret is not what you theorize about his capabilities - it is what he produces on the field of play and his ball sense that counts.                                           ,

2013 Appearances (All Bench)

1. Serf (23) > Habana (14) vs ITA — [67:00]
2. Serf (23) > JJ (13) vs SCO — [69:00]
3. Serf (23) > Jean (12) vs SAM — [71:00]
4. Serf (23) > Jean (12) vs ARG — [67:00]
5. Serf (23) > JJ (13) vs ARG — [68:00]
6. Serf (23) > Jean (12) vs AUS — [70:00]
7. Serf (23) > Willie (14) vs NZL — [68:00]
8. Serf (23) > JJ (13) vs AUS — [57:00]
9. Serf (22) > Kirchner (15) vs NZL — [70:00]

Stepfontein  is slow, small and has one weapon ....an inside step. He is one of a long string of Bool inside steppers like Meisiekind....easily stopped. An early Bloomer and an early fader.

Mozart

Your description -  "an early bloomer and early fader" -  perfectly fits Francois Steyn, 

Mozart

Your description -  "an early bloomer and early fader" -  perfectly fits Francois Steyn, 

Frans sparked the 2007 WC campaign to life, sparked the 2011 WC campaign, and saved Dud1's blushes in the 2019 WC campaign shutting down any hope of a comeback and you say he is a fader. Laughable. Frans has contributed more to Springbok rugby than Damian, Lambie, Goosen, Steph, Watson, Skinstad et al combined. 

Happy dream day to you - the fact is that Steyn faded out by 2011 when he was barely 23 years old and was never a center after his return from France in 2012.   He was so hopeless that between 2012 and 2017 he played in 7 tests and was hopeless in all those.   LMAO   - the idiot does not realize that Erasmus replaced Le Roux at full back and never tried him at center bar in two games against the poorest opposition teams in the WC pool.   For the rest he used him at full back from the bench in key games and used him minimally,  The facts are ignored by you as per normal      

How can anybody become so dismally uninformed on rugby issues  as you are?       

Actually, Frans was our key player in that 2011 WC, sparking the team to life. Our World Cup dipped once he was injured in that Samoan test. Jean couldn't quite capture the magic. Frans was around in 2012, having a great season. He was still present in 2015, and were it not for the untimely death of his brother he would have been there to clean up after Dud1 the same way he did last year. 

That is why the Springboks went out in the quarters in 2011.   Thy had the two Steyns in the game and struggled badly against Wales and Samoa and the signs were all bad for SA going into the quarters,  Fatso played two game at full back, 2 at center and the quarterfinal at flyhalf - was an average performer in all of those and never a key player in any,  

Steyn never really was a center as Plumtree stated two years later.        

De Allende had a good WC. Problem though is that he's so inconsistent. He burns hot and cold all the time and one never knows which player's gonna pitch. Just too risky.

The Goats don't have a world beating midfield and have no choice but to go with what they have. De Allende, Esterhuizen, Vorster and Janse van Rensburg are similar types of players. Crashballing seems to be all they really know. None of them have good distribution skills and tend to hog the ball.

Who does one go for?

Serfontein is one of the better options to oonsider. He has a brain and can run a backline defense ... not to mention lots of heart and a solid defender of his channel.        

I would have had him the mix. He's no Jean ... but he's a lot better than De Allende and besides, he can play at 13 just as well.

The Goats decided to opt for the useless quota Am at 13. What a joke.

Esterhuizen and Damian are very different players.

Also Damme Linda, Am is no quota. 

Sure Esterhuizen is dumb and De Allende is not so.  That is why De Allende was a key player in the 2019 WC squad and Esterhuizen was not considered at all for he squad,  Steyn was selected but not used at center in key matches,  Ahead of Esterhuizen would also have been the injured Serfontein and Willemse in the que for test centers.

Am was never a quota selection and his contribution to the Mapimpi try in the final was a classic,  That was the first try scored by any SA team in a World Cup Final - so it has to be a special one,   . 

,  

Shezza

In the WC campaign the Soringboks backline scored as many tries as the whole team scored in  2007 and 2015.   and that is a real fact - so on the whole the 2019 backline was classy,   But then Mozart never regarded try-scoring as important and AO does not know his ar se from his elbow anyway,   

‘That is why the Springboks went out in the quarters in 2011.   Thy had the two Steyns in the game’.......says Wanker.

But no, they never had Frans in that game.....they had Lambie. And Lambie was the chappie who got ahead of Jean as he made that splendid break.....turning a match winning  pass into a forward pass.

Schplott!

Still Lambie's defining moment. Big players make big moments. 

Lambie played at full back om that test and did not pass that ball to De Villiers .  

Did I say he passed the ball.....nope I said he was ahead of the passer, Jean de Villiers who made an excellent break. So the try was nullified.

But it’s good to know you finally realized Lambie was at 15.....not Frans. Congratulations.

Careful now Lü gnerin, you are in danger of becoming "an idiot thinker". 

I did  not really care about the disastrous 2011 WC - where SA struggled in the pool stages against Wales and Samoa and was on par with the Japan disaster in the 2015  WC.  They deservedly lost against the Wallabies in 2011 - a hopeless display by a hopeless team,    By then most of the team was over-the-hill and failed players returned because of clueless Meyer. 

Careful now Mikenocchio. Rassie and Nienaber coached that 2011 WC side. 

Springbok Rugby World Cup management: Peter de Villiers (head coach), Gary Gold (assistant coach), Dick Muir (assistant coach), Percy Montgomery (kicking coach), Jacques Nienaber (defence coach/physiotherapist), Malome Maimane (technical analyst), Rassie Erasmus (technical specialist), Neels Liebel (conditioning coach), Dr Derik Coetzee (conditioning coach), Dr Craig Roberts (team doctor), Rene Naylor (physiotherapist), Vivian Verwant (physiotherapist), Daliah Hurwitz (massage therapist), Charles Wessels (logistics manager), Mkiti Malakoane (baggage master), Annelee Murray (PR Manager), Andy Colquhoun (media manager).

.....hahaha, well done Augie.....I guess  Wanker has made it clear he thinks we weren’t so good technically.

There's also this...

Pieter de Villiers denies 'injured' Springboks are taking part in secret training camp ahead of World Cup

South African head coach Pieter de Villiers has denied reports that the 21 Springbok players left at home due to injury are in fact taking part in a secret training camp with technical adviser Rassie Erasmus in preparation for the World Cup.

By Abdullah Mahmood12:12PM BST 27 Jul 2011

"They are not training at the moment," he said. "They're injured players back in South Africa and there's a few guys going back today too who are also injured."

He was also defensive when accused of not selecting his best players.

"What do you mean by best players? The guys here at the moment, they performed in South Africa, in Super 15. There’s a few guys who didn’t make it that were also the best in Super 15. So best is a relative thing."

The 21 players left in South Africa include the core senior players who won the World Cup four years ago in France including Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Fourie Du Preez and Bryan Habana. This had led many in New Zealand and Australia to be suspicious, with some drawing parallels to previous coach Jake White’s decision to rest senior players during the Tri Nations in 2007.

However for Mark Keohane of South African paper Business Day a weakened Springbok’s opening 39-20 defeat to the Wallabies just offered further proof that De Villiers is not, and never has been, the right man for the job.

“The Springboks were always going to take a beating because in the Tri Nations not one of the three teams has enough depth to play a B team against the other’s A team — and win away from home.

"It was also how SA lost that reaffirmed the view that Peter de Villiers as national coach offers nothing.

“De Villiers, whether the Boks win or lose the World Cup, cannot go sooner. Worse than him having nothing technical to offer is that in four years he has learned nothing.

“Senior players defend De Villiers because they say he is a great manager of players. They do this because he allows the "old boys" to do whatever they want and to run the show.

“De Villiers has relied on 20 very gifted players to mask his incompetence these past four years, and mostly the players have delivered through instinct and natural ability.”

The All Blacks also go into this Tri Nations fixture resting key players including number eight Kieran Read and second row Brad Thorn. However Graham Henry has still opted to keep a large number of his experienced players in from the beginning with Dan Carter and Richie McCaw likely to start this week after coming off the bench in last Friday’s 60-14 victory over Fiji.

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Who could forget Rassie in the coaching box in that World Cup? Rassie's first crack at a World Cup wasn't last year, it was in 2011. It was notable how different the Boks attacked and defended. Rassie, or more specifically his crutch, Nienaber, were the key men in that World Cup. Lügnerin, as has become his calling card, mouthed off too quickly and eagerly. He is like a threatened kitchen that lashes out wildly with its head turned the other way. Only thing is, unlike a kitten, he opens his eyes and finds he attacked his own face. It's the laughter that keeps me coming back. G-d bless you Mikenocchio 

Rassie and his team made us very competitive in the 2011 RWC...pity we were too pig-headed to play percentage rugby in the Bryce Lawrence match...

You're right, they did improve on Peter. But, percentage rugby? Morne passed 72% of the possession he had, Du Preez passed 87.5%. This team ran at the Wallabies. 

Yes, we ran at them and that was our fatal error. We should have put the ball in the corners and slotted a few drops first . We had Morné...get ahead on the scoreboard before running at them...ah, well, spilled milk.

Morne was always known for three things - standing too deep in the pocket and was slow n passing or kicking decisions - made poor passes and sold out players,  However, the problem was he was a totally useless flyhalf,

Du Preez kicked the ball 8 times, passed the ball 112 times and carried the ball 8 times,  Now where did the passes go too?   The useless Morne handled the ball 50 times and passed it 36 times,  De Villiers  handled the ball 17 times and passed the ball 4 times.   

So where did the missing at least 81 passes go to - 62 by Du  Preez and 19 by Morne?  We know that approximately 33 went to Burger and 21 to Spies.   Not surprising - that was the key game of Du Preez for years,   

Because between the three players mentioned there were also 7 possession turnovers - ie possession losses caused by the three players.   

The real story is that only 30 balls were handled by Fourie, Pietersen and Habana which caused the complete blunting of the backline as an attacking force.  Most of those were balls  received from  kicks by the Aussies.

The whole above picture shows an absolutely toothless backline with no tries being scored.  The game was a total farce - same as the Japan game was in the 2015 WC.   There is one thing though and that remained a problem  for the Springboks in WC competitions ever since 1995 until 2015 and that was the inability of the Springboks to score tries in the play-offs and the finals.   That was always the result of - 

*   lack of a coherent game plan;

*   player deficiency

*   senseless kicking away possession

*   deficient ball sense by the players,  

That is all the result of poor coaching and defective game plans.   

In the 2011 WC game against Australia the Springboks had possession of 67% and  territory 75% and not scoring any tries represents an amazingly poor performance by the team.   The only opportunity they had to score a try De Villiers made a forward pass which the amazing Mozart blame Lambie for,  That must also be an amazing new discovery in rugby.  Timing of passes by players can impact on the forward move of recipients and bad timing often cause problems such as was the case in that pass,  

Morne under pressure had a success rate of only 50% in kicking a goal - which carried through to the kicking disaster he was in tests in 2012.  Besides that Morne also missed a dropped goal attempt  in the Aussie test in 2011. 

There was a similarity between the stats of that game and the subsequent disaster in 2015 against the Japanese though.  In both cases  the backline was near to totally blunted with no tries scored by any of the  backline players.   

Just another observation in the 2015 WC play\off stage the Springboks scored only one try - the opposing teams 3.   In 2019 the count was 4 tries for the Springboks - 1 try for the opposition.   In none of the finals involving the Springboks in 1995 and 2007 any tries were scored.  In the final in 2019 the Springboks scored two tries against the English zero.

It all gives an indication how poor the game plans of especially De Villiers and Meyer were compared to the Erasmus game plan.               

.          .                                   

Draad

Maybe the explanation given by me above clarify the situation as to the kicking at goal situation is concerned,  Morne's kicking at goal in the 2011 quarterfinals was a disaster as well,      

Morné sold out players? What the heck are you talking about?