Morné sold out players? What the heck are you talking about?
Here is ou Maaik from way back:
Jul 26, 2018, 15:02
Every pass he made to the inside center was a hospital pass.because he stood too deep in the poclet and his reactions were slow.
Auge, both you and I have challenged him to produce just one instance of Morne throwing a hospital pass. There is so much footage of Morne on Youtube, highlights, complete matches even. Still waiting for one example from ou Maaik. It's been years now.
I've seen Morné look for a pass, tuck the ball and take it into contact. I haven't seen that a lot, but I have see it several times at least. He protected the ball well. I've gone through countless hours of film review and I honestly cannot recall one hospital pass. I can reference quite a few from Lambie and Goosen. What made the Goosen hospital passes so frustrating was that he missed so many open runners. Taute and Kirchner running great lines to exploit passive defending, finding weak spots in defence. One was Kirchner ghosting inside Nonu, and he had a fair shot at a try. Goosen went the other direction and Taute got clattered. Lambie, at Twickenham, missed numbers out wide when he chipped into the 22, but set Serf up for a chomping when it was clear the ball would be vulnerable. I think Serf got turned over. This was in the first half of that test. So there, I can reference some from them.
Almost every time someone criticises Morné it's based on an opinion perpetuated by the media or is a lie. I have posted a lot of footage of Morné. I've debunked a great deal of it.
One of the things that really irked me was the away Aussie test in 2011. Morné and Lambie each had 40 minutes. Morné beat defenders, got attackers away and did everything else he could. His stepping of Beale, his blindside break off a scrum when he got JP away down the touchline. He played well. Then on comes Lambie. Zero tackles, twice allowing attackers to break past him, almost brushing shoulders, at least one of those was Cooper. Jacobs made both tackles. Two charge downs, and he botched a simple draw andnpass after Aplon torched a horde of Wallabies. He got the plaudits. His passes were very deep. Literally everything that Morné was accused of. Then there was that 20+ phase period where we got stuck into the Wallabies. Lambie didn't touch the ball once. No decoy runs, no screens. Zero involvement. It was actually Deysel who stirred the Boks in that second half. Rumbling right over and through then at will.
South Africans too often appear to have a problem with dishonesty. That's my experience. It really shows its ugly head in our rugby. I have veru often challenged these critics and none can produce a single piece of evidence to back their claims up.
Shezza. Morné was one of the best distributing halfbacks we ever produced. Poor passing wasn't a hallmark of the Meyer reign. Actually, poor passing is what we have come to know under Meyer. Poor passing and fumbles. We ranked high innthe in the World Cup for fumbles.
Morne is a fine passer....you need only look at the 2013 match at Ellis Park against the ABs to see that. He also has great hands and judgement....and a great boot in every respect.
That said he is obviously not a great runner, nor is he a physical defender.
So a balance of attributes. If you want to play the AB game, Morne is clearly not your man. But we tried to play the AB game for 10 years with no success.....we should never have been trying to play ball in hand/AB rugby.
Our traditional game, which we use d through 2009 and again in 2019....was a perfect match with Morne’s skills. He could have been a match winner throughout....but was dropped for inferior clones like Lambie or asked to play a game plan which didn’t suit the Boks.
I'm not going to go trawling through footage but I can back Mikes claims that he threw hospital passes, it was a feature under Meyer.
Everyone throws the odd hospital pass. The claim is that every pass he made to his inside center was a hospital.
AO
So you have seen several times that Morne took contact in 66 tests played - what a real attacker of the gain line that represented. Nobody else saw that several times you referred to - the times he took contact was when no other possibility existed.
Morne stood so deep in the pocket it was laughable. So two things happened when he got the ball standing dead still. Two or even three defenders ignored Morne since he did not attack the gain line and moved forward to crush the poor pass recipient - normally the inside center - and logical people would call the passes hospital passes, The wings, no 8 and no 9 fell back to help cover poorly directed kicks,
That is why Morne was never an acceptable flyhalf, He could never be one - that ss why he became the Stade Francais bench player,. This year I watcjed the Bulls games and never once saw him making a good pass.
AO
So you have seen several times that Morne took contact in 66 tests played - what a real attacker of the gain line that represented. Nobody else saw that several times you referred to - the times he took contact was when no other possibility existed.
Morne stood so deep in the pocket it was laughable. So two things happened when he got the ball standing dead still. Two or even three defenders ignored Morne since he did not attack the gain line and moved forward to crush the poor pass recipient - normally the inside center - and logical people would call the passes hospital passes, The wings, no 8 and no 9 fell back to help cover poorly directed kicks,
If a flyhalf wants to use the backline effectively for attacks he has to move forward and try and draw defenders to him creating potential space for players outside of him, Morne never did that and that was the end of attacking play by the Springbok backline. By the way a flyhalf putting a ball under his arm is incapable of passing the ball - the worst thing any flyhalf can do.
That is why Morne was never an acceptable flyhalf, He could never be one - that ss why h became the Stade Francais bench player,. This year I watched the Bulls games and never once saw him making a good pass.
Mozart
We all heard before of the two miracle passes made in that test in 2013 - when before the game Meyer said he ordered the players to kick the ball less and pass the ball. That worked well in the case of those two passes to Vermeulen and Louw, But unfortunately it had its downside as well = it caused Morne to lose the plot completely. Seconds before the halftime - when Morne should have made a relieving kick and found touch, he passed the ball and the end result was the Messam second try. He did not know when to kick and when to pass.
Then the story of yours that SA tried to play AB Rigby for ten years was .a fib and fabrication. To play NZ rugby especially the loosies and the backline should combine as an attacking force and should have ball skills and pace as well. The Tight 5 forwards should also have ball skills and especially also have the ability to pass balls. It just never happened. Out loosies were pace-deficient and except for perhaps Burger were all pace-deficient with extremely questionable ball skills, The tight 5 players under Meyer lacked the required ability totally and there was no possibility for comparable play with the AB's possible.
The other problem was dear Morne - the way he played reduced the game to a 10-man or at most 11 man game and the AB's require a 15 man game.
Erasmus on the other hand trained the players to be re effective in comprehensive rugby and the results were clearly visible this year, The fact is reflected in the following try-scoring stats iro of the 2015 and the 2019 WC's respectively:-
2015
Forwards = 11 tries
Backline = 16 tries
2019
Forwards = 11 tries
Backline = 22 tries
There was a major difference in the tries scored in 2015 an 2019. In 2015 there was virtually no contribution by forwards in the moves leading up to the tries scored by the backline players, In the 2019 series there were - two examples were -
* Marx was one of the passers involved in the attack before Mapimpi made that kick which led to the Mapimpi try; and
How many more times? You are absolutely unbelievable Lügnerin. I have covered those seasons many times. More thoroughly than anyone else. The Boks of 2015 had a far superior attacking output, before attacking stats increased across the board post 2015 WC. Where does Rassie's rank to his competition? Last in almost every statistical category. What does that show? He is regressing the team away from developments and trends in the game. We are headed in the wrong direction. I warned the same thing in the middle of 2009 and nobody wanted to listen. It'll only end in tears, again.
Yet the Springboks scored more tries because all the attacks were more purposeful and better executed, That makes a huge difference, The fact is the Springboks did even better in the RC in the try-scoring stakes,
There were a number of things missing in 2015 - those include a total deficiency in the game plan and a deficiency in balls skills and execution, There was no involvement of the forwards in back line play and the fact is that the Springboks was poor in comparison with the 2019 performances.
Listen dimness scoring of tries and winning of matches is what counts in rugby and that is where the 2015 Springboks were deficient, Three wins out of 9 games played in a row was just not good enough. And an at home loss against Argentina and a loss in the WC against Japan showed how really poor the team was selected and coached.
This was similar to what happened to Meyer when he coached Stade Francais - same problems as Meyer had in 2015, Did not know how to select players and no real game plan caused him to be fired by the owner of Stade and the club as a result will be demoted in the next Top 14 season. LMAO
Ball skills? Handling errors were up in 2018 to 2019. Better structured attacks? Not really. Clunky, slow developing attacks. Too many 9 to POD, with a basic playmaker behind said POD, and back connecting three man unit out wide. That comprised 90% of our movement, and a great deal of that ended in a winky shallow up and under. More set plays were executed under Meyer. More exotic and interesting ploys. He utilised individual skillsets better, hence why players often had double the production or more under Meyer. Meyer's gameplan eas detailed, but crafted to personnel, Rassie is the Mourinho type: Have a plan and squeeze personnel into it. Rassie restricts individuality and doesn't take advantage of player's skillsets.
Tries went up? How many from structured play? Many key tries were opportunistic. We had great trouble breaking teams down. Even minnows we could overpower. No Lügnerin. J-Raz merely implemented the dour Stompies blueprint. Just like the dour Stompies, the Boks ended up the least effective top tier attacking team. It's actually alarming how many minnows are moving the ball better than us. The Boks under J-Raz require physical dominance, when they don't have that they look like thoughtless plodders. Such as both All Black tests and the Welsh test in particular.
J-Raz is not a great tactician. Meyer's Boks were first or second in attacking stats. J-Raz has the Boks dead last. Great. As I said before, he has moved away from the developments and trends in the game. His is an average coach.
Most of the tries scored by Habana was opportunistic - the players inside of him was normally not up to standard - especially with Morne around. Meyer had NO game plan. With Du Preez around it meant too many passes went to the forwards, In the famous 2011 test and even more so in the 2015 play-offs the balls he passed to he flyhalf virtually never got beyond the inside center,
In any event - how many trophies did Meyer win in the four years as a coach? How successful was he in the RC and ultimately in the WC. With his record he went off to become the coach of Stade Francais and was given a massive amount of money to find and contract players, He had a free hand to implement a game plan. In 2018 Stade Francais ended up having 66 log points and being no 8 on the log. The team won 14 games and lost 12 matches. He was lucky to get another year and he had a hugh budget to spent.
His selection for new contracted players was a total disaster and by January 2020 he \had Stade Francais last on the log and clearly on the demotion path. By the time Morne was asked to go the team had lost 12 games and won 2. After he left unceremoniously the owners kicked out Alberts and Morne in mid-season and the situation was that a further three games took place before coronavirus put an end to games. Without Meyer Stade won all three games. and they now have five wins and 12 losses on the log, Despite that they are still bottom of the log.
If Meyer had the wonderful Game Plan you claim he had for the Springboks one would have assumed he would have one for Stade Francais as well. He did not and was forced to resign after damaging the club badly, he never had one for the Springboks anyweay,
On the other had Erasmus took the players and refined their skills while devising a plan they could excel in. He did the same at Munster and was the Guinness Top 14 Coach of the Year in 2017.
Every thinking person saw that Erasmus took a team without a team spirit and totally lost with low morale and a zero chance of winning the WC and turned it into the RC and WC winning team in 16 months time. There is no commentator or expert anywhere in the world who did not say that Erasmus performed a miracle with what he achieved with the Springboks - yet Mozart and you said otherwise. Are you delirious or are you totally stupid or what?.
"Most of the tries scored by Habana was opportunistic - the players inside of him was normally not up to standard - especially with Morne around. Erasmus had NO game plan. With Du Preez around it meant too many passes went to the forwards,"
I agree, Erasmus has no gameplan. Actually, rather, his gameplan is rather limited. Interestingly, how many balls went to a forward at first receiver under Rassie? Very, very common Mikey boy. You must be careful, because the same basic shapes that existed under Meyer exist under Rassie. Only, Meyer had more variation, and more set plays. Less kicking from outside the deep defensive zones (you probably don't even know they zones of the field, either horizontally or vertically). And furthermore, attacking rugby isn't "give it to the backs", but the integration of forwards AND backs. That's how attacking teams who use wide-wide patterns create numerical advantages you blithering bufoon!
That brings me to an important point, linkage between forwards and backs. Under Meyer, linkage between forwards and backs went far beyond POD runner to 10/12/15 and then a deep pass to a screen pocket runner about 20m in front of the gainline. Ball transition from forwards was greater, passing percentages in the forwards is much lower under Rassie, and wing participation is markedly lower. It's the same stodgy phase play as we have seen from the Stormers for over a decade, but that's no surprise, because Rassie built that dour rugby into Stormers rugby.
You lose Liar Mike, you lose easily.
The fact is that AP never knows what he is talking about since he does not understand the game at all. He dreams up things that never happened as real and one has to sympathize with him - he is totally clueless, LOL
That's the best you've got? Really? Nothing? You have yet to provide any rugby input on any of these topics.
Careful now Shezza. Schalk and Steph occupied exactly the same role. But who died with the ball more. You are setting yourself up for egg. Don't say I didn't warn you!
So glad the Meyer/Morne debate has been rekindled with this thread. The board is not the same without it.
Shezza, you have no point.
It's inevitable Pakie. Rassie is supposed to be the anti-Meyer who happens to be the Meyer they hate. It's all rather messy.
Wanker....the pass Morne made before the half in AB/13 was not a risky pass. It was turned into a disaster when JJ ran away from his support and was tackled at Read’s feet.
As for the balanced game we played, we were 5th in number of runs, behind a team like Australia that never even made the semis.
Even the final shows the same trend despite our dominance. England passed 135 times to our 89. They offloaded 13 times to our 18. And they only had to make 118 tackles vs our 196 , showing we spent much of our time kicking and defending.
In short we were kicking for territory and defending. The Poms were running into a brick wall....and when they turned the ball over we killed them on the counter attack. It was traditional Bok rugby.
Lambie was pap. A woeful defender, decision maker, had a short weak floaty pass, pop-gun boot, wasn't particularly fast. He absolutely could not defend, getting dragged around at will. The England test in 2014 was one of the most embarrassing performances by a BVok 10. Over and over they ran at him, and he folded in each and every defensive situation. Guaranteed front-foot ball for the Poms. He was also very passive (Something Eddie Jones remarked on in 2015, after Ono and the boys roasted him!). All those years of hype, and what did we get? The Lambie apologists cry about the penalty in 2014, giving the glory of the win entirely to him, and not the break-out performance of Pollard. Neglecting to mention his point-blank drop goal miss earlier or another feeble tackle in the dying stages of the game which almost allowed a game-winning try for New Zealand at the death (Thor winning a vital breakdown penalty). In the end, it pins him as the very thing he was supposed to eradicate from Bok rugby: a boring, talentless kicking 10. In the end, their greatest redeeming point defeats all those years of lauding his attacking flair. It's embarrassing. No, he remains the greatest myth in the history of South African rugby. Perhaps all of world rugby, in both codes of the game! He is the Tim Tebow of SA rugby, although, Tebow had that fourth-quarter comeback over the Steelers.
Lambie is more like Bubble Pop, and I mean all the Britney Spears clones of the late 90s. Morne is like Norse Celtic warrior music. You, you're essentially Pornogrind.
No, no it isn't. Celtic music is indigenous to the region. That's it s point of origin.
Getting popcorn for this!
Ou Shezza does not know his ancient history. That's okay, whites don't often know the people of these lands and their history. Whether it be the Dodanim, Danites, Parthians, Scythians et al. Funny stuff. Yes Herr Draht, popcorn time. First I educate them on rugby, now I give them a dose of culture.
Where did the Gaels come from? From where did Celtic culture originate? Key questions to ponder monsieur.
A dose of culture of which like in the case of rugby - you know nothing about, LMAO
That was quite a tangle of words Lügnerin. Best stick to ball and cup, eh?
We are all of The Tribe of Noah...
