HM's real record

Ok.... so they never just played completely sh!t and had a bad day at the office
All those stats provided above for those particular tests are because that team "Froze" on the day of play
Absolute Bullsh!t

 They're both knowledgeable and experienced international coaches.
From my understanding, they're both giant sized pr!cks ... unpleasant at the best of time ... so the questions is who is the lesser of two evils?
No idea. 
I prefer Mallet as he says what he thinks and does what he says he'll do ... the other commits to a cause only to drop you and yours in the dwang at a moments notice. He has absolutely no integrity and everything's always only about him.
I just don't like him.  

 @CC. Each of us are entitled to our own opinion. There are of course the odd exception on the rule. Those who do not recognise anybody else's opinion and regard any opinion that deviate from theirs as a token of ignorance and stupidity. 
Be that as it may, it seems that White will forever be crucified for dropping the Brumbies, despite the good that he has done and achieved with them. Fact is that that is the one and only time that he has done it. He has had 13 jobs involving coaching and he has only "dropped" one side. Mallett only had 6 jobs involving coaching and in two of them he was basically told to feck off due to his results. He only really had results at Stade Francais. His "16 game winning streak was negated by the crap he dished up after that came to an end". Of course there are a few wise cracks who seem to ignore the last part. Much like the PTB in SA cricket ignore anything prior to '92.
White was "fired" twice and that was despite his results and not because of that. In both cases the sides who got rid of him ended up being worse off than with him. 

Well, this is certainly interesting 
Clevermike.... some info to counter your bollocks statement above about how the teams who played those particular games "Froze"
When a individual or team chokes or freezes up during any game, it is due to some significant spontaneous sudden event that turns the game upside down or inside out
For instance:
A crucial cover tackle on the try line to prevent a try to win the world cupA dropped catch in the last over of a cricket match to end the gameA missed stumping to end the last wicket stand with 2 runs to winBowling a wide or no ball when the opponents need one to win and are 9 downA crucial penalty in the 81st minute to win the Rugby ChampionshipThat 1 foot putt to win the Masters
You get my drift here..... That is freezing up, or saying he or they "Froze"
So by your logic, because there was a total of the following transgressions in these 3 games combined:
52 Missed tackles40 Penalties conceded43 ball possession losses
These "transgressions" above made the team freeze?
LMAO
Kak man, they had a bad game , sh!t happens...... move on, and while you are at it, look at how well those teams you mentioned have slowly developed their game and played better against other teams as well

 The results with White was not at all acceptable - the team members  were  not supporting each other in games and the performing players were criticized and the non-performers praised.  White had no idea of backline coaching and in the case of the Brumbies his backline coach was Larkham - who was outstanding as a backline player and also a very good backline coach.    At the Sharks he had nobody and relied heavily on Fat Fransie to crashball or make aimless kicks.  In the end the Sharks was wiped the floor with in the semi of Super 15.  However, what is clear is that the Sharks is factually a much better team in 2016 than they were under White in 2014.      

"The results with White was not at all acceptable....." - Opinion
"......the team members  were  not supporting each other in games and the performing players were criticized and the non-performers praised." Unconfirmed allegation.
"White had no idea of backline coaching and in the case of the Brumbies his backline coach was Larkham - who was outstanding as a backline player and also a very good backline coach." Larkham was the Brumbies attacking coach. White appointed him as the backline coach. Every coach has a backline coach nowadays. Why? Because none of them are specialised in coaching all of the positions. Who should White have appointed as Brumbies backline coach? The best that he could get or Os du Randt?
"At the Sharks he had nobody...." Really? He was taking charge of the entire coaching set-up, including backline, attacking, scrumming, line-outs, etc? Mate, if that was the case then he was fcuking brilliant, doing all of that and ending up being the best SA side and ending up in the semi-finals.
 "......and relied heavily on Fat Fransie to crashball or make aimless kicks." Opinion.

 Ceradyne - I will henceforth be civil.  White obviously had assistant coaches - but in rugby teams they were nobodies - not top class at all.   The assistants came from school level and club level - so what did they bring to the game?  The answer is unfortunately zero of substance.   I should perhaps clarified the issue of assistant coaches - but White may as well had nobody who could really be relied on for backline coaching.   Did you ever study Fat Fransie's record at the Sharks in 2014 and saw what he produced.  He had the worst attacking and defensive record of any center or flyhalf in Super 15 that year - but he was always White's protégé and was treated as the top player by White - who ostracized other players.   The other Super 15 teams in SA was so weak - the Sharks managed to get a play-off spot  by accident.  After losing to the Highlanders by a wide margin in the round robin stage in Durban - the Highlanders came back to face the Sharks in the play-offs and lost by a very narrow margin.  The Sharks disgraced themselves in the semi-final.   That was never a real strength situation - it was a fluke they got through t the semi.            

Mike, here's the thing
You clearly are a very passionate rugby fan, and your posts indicate that.
The problem is, you lace too many of these said posts with unsubstantiated "facts", over critical opinion, because another poster likes a particular player, and also to a large degree, your posts contain baseless lies.
Other than that, I actually enjoy some of your responses on here
But all is not lost
Just clean up your act.... be honest.... rather more now than again, and all should be sorted

" Ceradyne - I will henceforth be civil.  White obviously had assistant coaches - but in rugby teams they were nobodies - not top class at all.   The assistants came from school level and club level - so what did they bring to the game?" 
Now we are slowly getting somewhere. Who were those assistant coaches and when and by whom were they appointed?
Forget about all your "Fat Fransie" biased opinions and conspiracy theories. They are just baloney that you are feeding yourself. Why is Frans doing so well with Montpellier? ..... and remember that he is two years older than what he was when he played under White at the Sharks.
In addition, the Sharks did not get into the play-offs by accident. That is nothing but BS. They were not only in the third spot by virtue of comfortably winning the SA conference. They were also in the third spot purely on points scored as well and on top of that they were only one point behind the Crusaders. In the SA conference they were a massive 12 points clear of their nearest competitors in the second spot, the Bulls.
I do not understand what you are trying to prove with the remarks about a game in the qualifying stages around two months prior to the Semi-finals. It is not relevant at all.

 What happened in the play-offs - they lost be a large margin to the Highlanders in the Round Robin (34-18) at home and then managed to beat them by 4 points in the play-off.  That is what I mean - they were lucky to get past the play-offs.  However, they lost by 38-6 in the semi.  Very poor show.      

 Ag jy is flippin siek in jou kop man. Is daar nie pille of iets wat jy kan drink nie? 
How could they have landed in the semi-final by luck? Where they lucky to accumulate the 50 log points that they got in the end? There is no doubt that they fully deserved that spot at the top end of the log. 
They were within one point from the second spot and a guaranteed home semi-final. In addition, they were five points clear of the side in the fourth spot on the log. Jou kop is besig om jou te los man.

 Listen ou - jy mis alweer die punt.  Dof dink ek.   The Sharks lost badly against the Highlanders and I can clearly remember that game - the worst kicking game by Steyn I have seen for years,  Then they come up the same team two months later and squeezed by them  into the semi - to be disgraced badly by the Crusaders.   That is the point I am making.   The team was in fact disgraced in the semi.   So what went wrong in the semi - where the team was disgraced????  However, this is not the thread to discuss White - it is about the clueless Meyer - remember the guy who coached us into a number 6 ranking last year before some recovery later in the WC tournament..    

 Wasn't me who started comparing White and Mallett. I only mentioned that White and HM were Mallett's assistants and then there was a remark comparing the amount of rugby acu men in White and Mallett's little toe or something to that effect. I then started giving comparing facts about the two of them. And then you started making a fool of yourself......... again. 

 No this thread is about the real record of HM. But somebody claimed that the last two years defines the coach. So the extended argument was about the last two years  of Mallett, White and HM. By far, by a huge margin....Mallett was worst.

HM would have needed 3 wins to have been changed to losses to equal Mallett. 
White would have needed 4 games to shift from the win column to the loss column.

Mallett was a disaster in his last two years.

What the hell Mozart and others what is past is past and I doubt if Nick really wants this job...

What only matters now is the future...going backwards is fruitless...HM, veterans in the past can be respected but for the love of Mike lets lay the past to rest...soon our stay on earth might be over and won't have the tedious job of dodging coffins, oh I forgot you will go up in smoke because it makes you tougher...what about all those brave men who lie in the green fields of France pushing up red poppies for the sake of liberty and the freedom of the world...

Good of you to make an ode to HM but leave this alone for the sake of progress.

 OK. Shall we then agree to let ago of any past rugby? That would mean that we should really start to forget anything that happened before 2016?
You do know what that would do to ou Tokkie, don't you? He will have nothing to talk about if he cannot compare everything to HM, Matfield, Morne Steyn, Fat Fransie, etc? You are going to kill him off. 

 One can never forget the past. History shapes the future. 

 I will go up in smoke because it's neat and hygienic, and why give the worms the satisfaction and force your poor family to visit a muddy plot vs hit the beach.

 Want the truth on the 2014 test against Oz in Perth. No freeze, from the ESPN match report:

Wallabies celebrate as if they've won the World Cup. A win is a win, and they scored 10 points while Bryan Habana was controversially sin-binned.

 With respect - look at the actual stats for the Perth test as outlined above and judge for yourself whether giving away 12 penalties, missing 25 tackles and losing ball possession 15 times in the game - were not the fatal nails in the Springboks coffin.   Can you justify the above because of the yellow card of Habana and the shocking performance by Morne Steyn?  Only partly - most of the rest of the players  have had shockers as well.      

More proof that dispels your "Froze" theory Mike
How you get to that conclusion based on all the stats and facts presented in this thread alone is simply ludicrous and shows your complete bias and dishonesty when rating players or games.

 I am not biased - I merely quoted the stats as an indication as to what went wrong in the games in question.  However, Meyer has had the distinctive record of losing to Wales, Ireland, Argentina and Japan (all ranked lower than the Springboks) within the space of less than a year - taking us to the no 6 ranking in World Rugby in the process.  Throw in 2 losses to AB's and 2 to the Wallabies and you get a dismal picture of his coaching - which some try to justify.   That is the result of dodgy reputation selections and a seriously defective and predictable game plan - to put the whole issue into perspective.            

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 23140RE: HM's real record
June 03, 2016, 11:00:17

That is the result of dodgy reputation selections and a seriously defective and predictable game plan - to put the whole issue into perspective.           

 You initially said all those games were lost because the team froze
Bollocks

 Not all - but three of those - and the media could not even come up with reasons - even the coaching staff spoke about the players playing like zombies - they were just not at the games.    However - the word froze was used by me and  am not convinced there was another reason for games which was lost because of a wide percentage of poor player performances and the lack of playing as a team, but as individuals.   Whatever the reason - the performances in nearly half of the tests played Since June 2014 were dismal and not worthy of the Springboks.   That was the real issue - the issue of Meyer as a coach as stated above.   He was the worst coach of the Springboks over the last 24 years and that is a fact based on tea m performances.            

 And on a positive note...i arrived home very late yesterday. Why?

Because i had meetings with a few of my suppliers yesterday yet all we accomplished was talk about how awesome the Lions are haha!

Most people seem to be pretty positive about the current squad and i'd personally rather look hopefully toward the future than argue about failings of the past.

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 23141RE: HM's real record
June 03, 2016, 12:32:39

 Not all - but three of those - and the media could not even come up with reasons - even the coaching staff spoke about the players playing like zombies - they were just not at the games.    However - the word froze was used by me and  am not convinced there was another reason for games which was lost because of a wide percentage of poor player performances and the lack of playing as a team, but as individuals.   Whatever the reason - the performances in nearly half of the tests played Since June 2014 were dismal and not worthy of the Springboks.   That was the real issue - the issue of Meyer as a coach as stated above.   He was the worst coach of the Springboks over the last 24 years and that is a fact based on team performances.            

 

Missed tackles             =    11

Penalties given away  =     17

Ball possession losses =     17

Sjoh.......... ok Mike, that's a lot of frozen moments in just one game
How about they just played sh!t

OK - lets accept it - they played sh!t if you are more comfortable to use that as a description of what happened.    

Thanks Mike, makes more sense now
Also, it is not some made up biased bollocks