Identifying our best 5 Boks...

Sure to still be the best by 2019?

1. Eben
2. Duane...best 8 by far, but will he make it to 2019? Hope so.
3. Pollard? I'm not convinced yet (@10), but a possible 12?
4. De Allende...yes, but 12 might not be his right position?
5. Kriel, but he might be better suited at wing or FB?

Draad  
I do not see any alternative at 10 for Pollard and De Allende is fine at 12 provided we play a proper game plan.  I think he will learn a lot from Eddie Jones and expect a much better player in 2016 than he even was as top Super 15 12 this year.   
I would add a few players to those 5.   I can see Kriel at full back - but not on the wing.   The guy I think that ultimately would be our top 13 is Harold Vrster -  He is by some distance better than most 13 centers he played against in Super 15 this year (his first year on that level), and that included some of the better Aussie and NZ centers,   
What we desperately need is a proper backline coach - the Stormers has one and the Lions are not too far off.   With the coaches we had we developed a game plan that was unworkable and major improvement would be possible with proper coaching.    

 Kitshoff should be a sure choice at 1, but Trevor is looking good AND he meets the demographic requirements. ..and will play his rugby in SA.Mike, there are lots ofgood prospects, but I feel we should use next year to identify our best 5 players, regardless of position. IMO Pollard is not a sure pick  at 10 yet. I think Tiaan Schoeman has great potential too.

 And so has Robert du Preez now that he is the first choice flyhalf for the Stormers.

Too soon to tell Mike, but at least we have prospects. .. I'm holding thumbs for Carel's lad to burst into contention at 10.

Jean-Luc was verry good when playing Under 20 and coming from the bench. Is he still with the Stormers?
I believe the time is ripe to go wider and assess performances in Super 15 and then take the matter from there,  

 draad sadly i dont understand why we need to look at our top 5 players ?? what purpose that that serve ??
we need our top 150 identified and build a core of players we can take to 2019. 
place them under proper conditioning and skills development suited to there respective roles and build them up from the ground. 
that all must be build around a solid off field ethos and offcourse the most important aspect of all a game pattern that is dynamic build on skills speed/execution
at the end of the day the players are merely a tool of the pattern you want to play and even if you lose a player the next one filling that role should be able to fill into that role without much disruption to the overlaying game pattern
lets stop being player focused on focus on the game pattern that is the real key to success...dont lose sight of the process

1. Eben2. Pollard
3. Duane
4. De Allende5. Lood

I've left out JP, Habana, Louw, Schalk, Bismarck etc on the basis that the next WC will be one too far. 
I left Duane as I have a feeling he'll just about make it.

There are a few people who'll make a claim once the chances come though, people such as Coetzee, Jaco Kriel, Kitshoff. 

 Muncher, I believe you build your team around a core of special players and you devise a plan to bring the best out of them. That will give you a vision and pupose going forward. Sure things will change along the way, rugby is a dynamic game after all,  but at least we will have direction moving forward.Deddy, I agree with those 5, but at leas one should be a front rower...should be the 3, but although Malherbe is in the saddle, he's not the boss....yet.

I think there's a decent set of props beyond the old guard of Beast and Jannie. 

Kitshoff, Nyakane, Malherbe should be good enough given the chance. Whether any will become world class remains to be seen. 
We need to build around something like this for 2019

1. Kitshoff/Nyakane2. ????
3. Malherbe
4. Lood
5. Etzebeth6. Coetzee/Kriel
7. ????8. Duane
9. Faf/Reinach (faf preferably)
10. Pollard
11. ?????
12. De Allende
13. Kriel
14. ?????
15. Willie

We need to bed in the combinations for the next few years, and the experience for Lood, Etzebeth, De Allende, Kriel is priceless in this world cup. 

Silly thread- unless we are choosing a give aside team. Their is allready a thread for the best performing Boks at the World Cup.
What can the top 5 players do?

5 a side team?, and not sevens.....

Are you talking about 5 or 6 players that can be selected for any world team 15. I always believe that you need a solid spine going through your team. The positions I would look at are 
1,4,6,9,10,12
I don't think any of our current crop of players would make a world 15 side. Pollard to me has been very disappointing, but he is still young and should be given a chance to improve. 
I think that the boks can get better and would like to see the likes of Senatla getting selected for the boks. We have some talented black players around that needs to be carefully managed. 
To me Meyer wasted a lot of good places on hasbeen players in his world cup squad

 kingcorn
I am in full agreement with you when it comes to "Meyer wasted a lot of good places on hasbeen players in his world cup squad"
I still cannot see what players like Kirchner, Alberts, Coenie Oosthuizen  and Morne Steyn was doing in that squad.  They played a minimal of time on the field of play and there was no possibility of resting some players during the WC tournament for a match like oher teams managed to do.  
The pther flop Meyer made in the initial squad selection was his insistence on selection of players with poor injury records in the squad.   Some of those could not be played virtually throughout the WC.   (Coenie and Alberts).   De Villiers had a series of injuries and never really was on song in the tournament (he was poor in the games he played in).   Du Prreez - despite all the hype was not all that good - he was a lot better than Pienaar, bit that means npopthing since Pienaar was very poor - and did not have a good semi  at all.   Matfield was in and out of injury problems in the Super series and the RC and th same injury took him out of the majority of RWC matches as well.  When he did play in the RWC he was between bog ordinary and poor.  The only injury case which did noit ultimately fail was Vermeulen.   
The squad was poor and the game plan worse.   Ir was a revival of the 2002-2004 Bulls game plan where the ball was constantly passed by the scrummie to a forward as first receiver and never really worked since it was countered easily buy the opposition.    Burger was the first receiver in most cases - but Burger is not a type of player that van make that type of game plan a success.  
To expect from any of the Springboks to shine with that kind of game plan - neutralizing the back line as it did  -  is to expect miracles and  those kind of miracles just do not happen in tournaments of this nature.
The whole tournament started off on the wrong foot - with the loss to Japan - and sealed the fate of the team in the rest of the tournament.   Evcery subsequent game became a knock out game and the stress on a few players not to have a loss repeated became a serious problem in the actual knock out phase of the tournament.
However, I think that we should forget about the spilled milk and  look at the future.  With an eye to the future - where with the possible exception of Vermeulen - none of the senior players in the past squad would make the squad in 2019 - the idea to start with building of a new Springbok team of the future is what is t stake here.
I think there are two approaches being advocated.  The one of Draad is to select a base of key players 0 say about 5 or 6 players that would be the foundation of the future squad - the other of carpetmucncher to have a wider squad to be selected based on performance during the upcoming super series and work with those payers towards ultimately developing a better squad in 2019 than we had in 2015,   Both has merit and I think that we are actually looking at something entirely missing in the period 2012 to 2015 - namely development of a proper squad  for the 2019 WC,
I think there are potential for the development of a squad for the future - but the key should be actual performance - not reputation only.  That makes the selection of the Springbok team for the 2016 tests so very interesting.  The key should be Super 18 in 2016 to identify candidates to go forward with.                               

 Kingcorn, yes. I'm trying to establish the spine of our future team along those lines, but maybe not as rigid as sticking only to those positions. Get as close to that as possible with the players at hand and start building from there.
Sharkbok...you're deliberately missing the point it seems.

 draad both myself mike and sharkbok understand they core of what your trying to get across but the point i am trying to make is that if you have a player focused then if there is a retirement or injury that whole model sadly falls on its face.
players like carter and mccaw ext are products of a amazing structure of development and game pattern..
only when we have that in place then you can start to build your core of the team. in essence you need more than 5 core players you need 10....spanning from locks backrows to 9 10 12 and 15
5 is nowhere near enough.
we need to focus on the process and systems more than the players as the system will create the players we want. up and til now being player centric is giving us the results we are getting at the moment

 
Not a silly thread at all.

Pollard to my mind is not at test level ... he needs another season or three to mature ... to hopefully learn how to deal with pressure ... definitely would not make my squad for the next few years. Completely over rated. 

Lambie is the best of the lot. He is however being undermined by the coach and has never been given a fair shake ... and never will be while Homer Simpson runs the show. If I were he I would go ply my trade in Europe ... forget about Bok rugby. He's not appreciated.

Morne Steyn is useless ... so is Fat Fransie ... Marnitz is an excellent 10 but he too suffers from nerves and cracks under pressure. Robert Du Preez hasn't impressed me at all. He's not an option in my opinion.

We have a problem at 10 ... as always.

Etzebeth and Duane are absolute musts for the Boks. There are no better in the land ... in fact you'd need to look hard and heavy to find better globally.

Lood is useless. PSDT is vastly better and so is Willemse.

Kriel is no more than a flash in the pan. He is not test material. He wouldn't make my squad either. Simply useless. We have better.

Look toward Vorster, Swanepoel, Odendaal, Janse van Rensurg and what ever happened to Pat Howard?

De Allende is a powerhouse ... and could be amazing. He needs work though. I'm afraid that while he's under Homer care he'll stagnate and we'll never see his true potential.

My wings would be Senatla and Ulenga and I still rate Joe Pietersen as our best 15.

Willie is unreliable. No consistency whatsoever.

Jaco Kriel is a must. In fact I'd chalk him as Bok captain.

I also highly rate Thomas Du Toit and Koch and we all know that Trevor is a solid prop that can play both sides. A merited selection.  

Right now I'm only able to identify our best three.

Eben, Duane and Jaco Kriel.

 My point is that from a group of, let's say your 45 best players, your best player in each position is nor necessarily your best possible team. In a team sport, your really great teams, ads to more than the sum of the individuals. In a great team, players compliment each other. Combinations are crucial and you need to cherry pick a few truly exceptional players and enhance their skills even more by selecting a team around that. Including players, who more or less fit the same mould, to stand in for them in the event of injury and to give them a bit of a rest now and then. 
kingcorn goes with the conventional 1,4,6,9,10,12, but given the players we have, I would go for 3,4,8,9,10,12 and one of the back 3 with that bit of extra zip and genius. That is 7 players of which at least 5 should be as constant as possible.
IMO, we have:3.Koch/Malherbe...not fixed at all yet.4.Eben...fixed and I'm sure there is enough backup, but they need to pick the preferred one.8.Duane...fixed, but needs backup.9.Paige/Faf....not even almost decided yet10. Pollard....not there yet and Lambie neither12.De Allende (still a bit of doubt if he really is THE 12 )
And to my mind Kriel might be the magic outside back we still need, but still not fixed by a long yard.

 you need your core decision making spots like 1.2.3.5,6.8.9.10.12 and 15 as the core of the team...
the fulcrum of 891012 is the heartbeat of the team. sadly for me de allende without the smash and bash style of his play is nothing more than that.....i do think the lions no 12 mnisi is a far more complete player at 12......great skillset and his running game is very very good. 
he needs to add more strings to his bow. pollard has the goods but playing in a bad pattern does not suite him and his confidence in my books are completely shot.
i do agree that we need to indentify the top 150 or so players and ensure that they are spread through out the unions.
faf for me is the perfect no 9. he lacks in a few areas but the core skillsets are there and he can really develop into something special. paige enjoyed a free ride to the rwc but nobody can look me in the eye and tell me he is bok material
i see there was a comment about boshoff from the lions....he for me is a more complete package than jantjies is blows more cold and hot than the cape south easter wind. pollard for me is still the go to guy. play pollard in a right pattern then you will see his skills come to the fore
the kid is young but he has the goods

 You don't pick a 10 that is a strong runner who successfully attacks the gainline and expect him to only play a tactical kicking game and then you instruct the 9 to pass 90% of the ball to the forwards to bash it up.

Our best current 5 are: 
Vermeulen / de Allende / Pollard / Etzebeth / Lood

Willie would have made it had it not been for a dip in current form
Our 15 best who missed out:
Kitshoff / Willemse / Jaco Kriel / Faf de Klerk / Jacques du Plessis / Jantjies / Hougaard / Marcel v/d Merwe / Marcel Coetzee / Arno Botha / Kolbe / CJ Stander / Vorster / Senatla / Reinach
The Bok WC squad that should have been:
15. Willie 14. JP / Kolbe13. Kriel 12. de Allende / Serfontein11. Habana10. Pollard / Lambie / Jantjies9. Hougaard / Faf / Reinach1. Kitshoff / Nyakane2. Bismark / Strauss3. Malherbe / Marcel / Coenie4. Etzebeth / Willemse5. Lood / PSDT6. Jaco Kriel / Coetzee / Kolisi7. Jacques du Plessis / CJ Stander8. Vermeulen / Arno Botha 

What happened to Quince..definitely the most unlucky fella not to make the Bok squad. But Reinach hahaha....thanks for the chuckle....is he still in the Shirks fiirst team?  

Let me guess you would rather have Pienaar and Paige in your squad....much like useless Meyer....the coach that lost to Wales, Ireland, Oz, NZ, Argentina and Japan in a year....go figure....you are as fucking clueless as that sad excuse of a coach we have.
Your side would be equally pathetic with all those old farts in the side

 Dave
Go slow on Meyer and poor Mozart.  They were vastly disappointed by their favoured players losing against Japan - after all it was the most experienced team ever representing the Springboks.   That achievement caused Meyer to panic and Mozart to sh!t in his pants - so be patient with our acknowledged idiot coach and moronic Mozart.