Irony

Indeed how ironic that the Lions have an unbeaten season in the CC, playing a style of modern rugby which is apparantly not possible in SA. All of this happens at the same time that our national team play traditional Bok rugby, only to manage a scraped win against the Welsh and Quarter final against the ABs that they never looked like winning. Tradition, or rather cultural habit, is no excuse for not evolving. If Meyer was God, the planet wpuld be populated solely by single called organisms. What a true disgrace it is that Jaco Kriel was not taken to this World Cup. How alarmingly blatant the buddy buddy selection Ruan Pienaar. But most of all, how absolutely disgusting that a team can play a game plan so well that they deny the Welsh 60 minutes of ball in an 80 minute game and yet the coach has NO PLAN B. Even after 60 minutes, when he can see his team are dominating, he has no idea of how to get them accross the line. Were it not for that scrum, the Boks would have lost. In case nobody noticed - in 80 minutes against Wales the Boks, with an embarrassing amount of posession, never once managed to move the ball from scrum half to wing. Question...why did Meyer not simply play two loose forwards at Centre then? And now, there are those saying that we need to keep Meyer for the sake of continuity. And that wpuld.literally be the only reason he cpuld stay on because he has failed in every facet including tactically and politically. And interesting note. I watched an interview with Duane where he was asked about his pass against the Welsh. Twice during that interview, he briefly mentioned that the coach always tells him "not to offload". Duane is actually an intelligent guy, and he knew what he was doing when he said that. My belief is that there is within the Boks a belief Meyer is not allowing them to play to their full potential. Of course no player will come right out and say it because he would be committing career suicide, but the Japan loss said everything of what was/is happening in that dressing room. For me, watching Boks for the last year's has been like watching a the final fight between Russell Crowe and Jaoquin Phoenix in the Gladiator. From the bottom of my heart, F U C K YOU Meyer.

Agreed, and it wasn't just the Currie Cup. The Lions were by far South Africa's best team in the 2015 S15 as well . . . and in both tournaments, they weren't just the best side, they were also the most enjoyable SA team to watch.

What I wouldn't give to have Johan Ackerman as Bok coach with Jaco Kriel as Bok captain!

The Japan game is a bad example, because it sounds to me as though the players weren't playing as Meyer wanted them to. Their rebelliousness ultimately resulted in a loss! 
But fear not, I think the Meyer tenure is coming to an end anyway! His losses against Argentina and Japan, amongst others, as well as a poor win ratio are just not good enough to warrant a second term! 

I'd like to see Ackerman as Bok coach, but lets face it, he is still very green as a coach, and while he has done fantastic things at a struggling Lions franchise, all he has actually achieved is a  Currie cup trophy. 
Please don't get me wrong, I would love to see him coaching the Boks, but I am on the fence about weather he has sufficient experience! 

Ha do excuse typos...my phone hates me

BTW Plum, good to see you posting again! 

 
YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!

Jaco Kriel would make an excellent Bok captain.

Not so sure I'd like to part with Ackerman though!!

Meyer is clueless ... bad for South African rugby. The sooner they escort him and his broederbond to the door the better.

We need to rid ourselves of at least 80% of the players.

Just the thought of proper selection excites me no end. Starting with Thomas Du Toit at loosehead and working our way through to the bench.

What I would give for that.

 
Didn't Plum have another name?? I recognize the pic but the name not.

I dont think Akkerman would be a bad call. He is an ex Bok, so he understands what it takes, which I think is part of what's missing in Meyer. As for whether or not Akker is too green, i dont know. My gut tells me that even if he is green, he would do way better than Meyer. Firstly, because he seems like he would pick players on merit...something Meyer has failed to do. Secondly, because Meyer may have experience but it seems that experience doesn't translate into tactical awareness. Akkers seems to understand the modern game better than any other coach in SA currently. Proof is in the pudding. As for Kriel, it's been years since any player has impressed me as much. Clearly the players themselves like/respect him too since he won the Players Player of the Year if I remember correctly. That try against the Cheetahs last weekend, bumping off three players that close to the touch line. Not only is it points but the boost to team moral that something like that does...it's matchwinning. I fear for the opposition when that guy finally puts on the Green and Gold. Also, I think Meyer didn't pick him because A) He plays to score tries and B) Offloads. Overall, I think it's in SARU's hands to recognize the potential in SA and use it. Maybe that's been the failure all along. We have two good scrummies to replace f#ckface Ruan and retiring Dupree. We look relatively healthy at 10 for now. Centre's...nothing need's to be said. As far as forwards go both Lion and WP front rows S15 dominated, Lood and Eben, abundance of good loosies. Wingers are probably our biggest issue. And if a coach is picking players on merit, then really then are a good handful of players in both backs and forwards that wpuld.be knocking on the door. Looking at it like that, it seems beyond ridiculous that we should even loose.to Japan, Argentina or even Wales. I really don't know how Meyer managed to make.such a fuck up of things. So yeah, Akkers might be green, but I'd rather enjoy watching the Boksnplay again. So would every single Bok fan I ever speak to.

Yeah I stopped coming here because you guys said the site was closing. But thanks for the Welcome :)

 
Not a fan of Lood nor of Kriel at 13.

Much prefer Vorster, Odendaal, Swanepoel and even Janse Van Rensburg who scored a beauty on Saturday.

We need our entire front row revamped. Beast and Jannie are poor as test props and Coenie is the worst thing to ever happen to a Bok jersey.

There's a lot of work to be done.

 I would say that Plum said the right thing and let me quote:-
"Twice during that interview, he (Vermeulen) briefly mentioned that the coach always tells him "not to offload". 
Now that brings us to the core of an argument frequently discussed on this site.    Players get blamed for not off-loading balls in tackle situations - an argument particularly aimed at De Allende. If Meyer forbid off-loads then it will apply to all players.  
The more i read about Meyer and his doings - the moire disgusted I become.
CC
We have good props - but other than Malherbe - Meyer ignored the others and prefer to take along Jannie and Beast.   Now our dear member Mozart says Beast was massive on Saturday and implied that Malherbe was BS.
I can think of at l;east 3 looseheads better than Beast and four Tightheads better than Jannie.   So lets leave matters there.  
       

"I dont think Akkerman would be a bad call. He is an ex Bok, so he understands what it takes, which I think is part of what's missing in Meyer." 
Graham Henry never played international rugby.Jake White never played international rugby.Michael Cheika Never played international rugby.Joe Schmidt never played international rugby.Kitch Kristie never played international rugby.Ian McIntosh never played international rugby.Warren Gatland never played international rugby.EtcEtcEtc

I'm not saying that only only managers who have played international rugby are any good. WHT I am saying, and what I will stand by is that had Meyer at least played rugby at a decent level he would probably be a better coach. Also, it can't be a bad thing having international experience. If so, do please.explain.

 Oh yes, and Eddie Jones also never played international rugby. To say that 
".....had Meyer at least played rugby at a decent level...."
Depends  on what "decent rugby" is. HM played varsity rugby.
I cannot find anything about Graham Henry playing any rugby at all. Jake White probably played varsity rugby. Cheika had one season at NSW and he played in France. Steve Hansen played for Canterbury but that was way back  in 1987, 28 years ago. Joe S C H M  I D T played a bit of rugby in NZ before playing in Ireland in the amateur  leagues. 
Kitch Christie played Carleton League for  Harlequins in PTA. I don't know what rugby, if any, Ian Mac played. Gatland played for Waikato for eight years. Eddie Jones has 12 caps for NSW.
In addition to the above, there are numerous examples of ex-international players who failed as national coaches. Straeuli, Ewen  McKenzie, John Kirwan, Robbie Deans, Martin Johnson, Gareth Jenkins, etc.

Thank you for the plethora of examples. Still think part of Meyer's lack of technical and tactical deficit is due to never playing at club level. I'm not saying it's the main reason, as you seem to be implying that I am, but it certainly does have a part to play.

 

Hehe anyway, good job on taking one thing that I mentioned, and then spending all morning on Wikipedia trying to disprove me. It's just an opinion, and a rather logical one. Would you not maybe prefer to discuss why, if at all, you think Meyer is a failure as Bok coach? Or do you just wanna wait for people to raise points and then try to wiki them down?

 Oops. Another one who likes to prescribe what should be responded to and what not. I am so sorry that I wasted my own time.

 Here we have another delusion.  The Lions are now going to be the building blocks for beating the ABs. Now it's Kriel for Bok captain....a few weeks ago it was Liggies Labuschagne.

The Boks have got it all wrong....but the Lions were mid pack in the S15. We haven't won a 7s or Super competition for 7 years. The juniors are regularly road kill, except when we play at home.

And these morons still blame the Boks....because we have an Amazon of talent and it's just the Bok coaches that prevent us from winning everything. The way I see it, the world has caught up and Bok rugby has less backline talent than the Bargies. This is an elevator going down.

The CC? Playing modern rugby? And what's modern about it? And this in a substandard league too. How did the Lions fare in Super rugby? Not particularly well in fact. 

Meyer has put structures in place that already have the Boks playing a modern brand of rugby. A less lopsided, test friendly style, unlike the Lions. Following the a Lions' approach means following the Waratah's approach, which Cheika openly conceded was not as adaptable to test rugby as he had hoped. We should learn from this. 

First it was JJ and Serf who were the best centre pairing in world rugby, now Damian and Kriel. What have any of the four achieved in senior rugby? A big fat nothing. Damian created one pass for a try off one linebreak against the USA well after they were being pounded. That's it. Kriel was a disaster, messing up several try opportunities. Yet it's all the gameplan's fault. When the players are struggling to determine where to direct play, where  resource are not where they need to be, when play stalls and there are no opportunities, then we can begin to look at the gameplan. When players blow opportunities, we need to be looking at personnel. 

 If only 10 to 20 % of your possession goes to your centres, they won't create anything.

 Only 20% of your possession goes to your centres because they create nothing......in this case it's the chicken, not the egg.

Big fan of the rejuvenated Lions and the coaching staff there is really good, but the Lions at a big advantage with nobody missing - not a single Bok player. Great continuity from the Super 15 to the CC. Pretty much the same team for the last couple of years. Stormers were missing a bunch of game changing players.

 This story about our rugby going down is tied up with the idea to play players who were at their peak playing rugby 8 years ago and playing  style of rugby that went out of the window 7 years ago and then want us to be competitive.   
Wonderful world some of us are living in - we believe that the players of the past is still good enough at present and the game of rugby has not changed at all.  What a farce.        

 oimatey
I do not think that Mozart would agree with your comments about the Lions not losing Springbok players.  With extremely rare exceptions he does not rate the Sp[ringboks that potentially would play CC rugby.  
He rate some players who has no have a decent game for years - while is prejudiced against others.  
However, I do agree with you about the final -  Malherbe, Etzebeth, Du Toit and De Allende would have made a massive difference.   The WP center pairing of De Allende and Kotze would have made a huge difference to the backline and so would Malherbe, Etzebeth and Du Toit made a difference to the Tight 5.  
However, WP did exceptionally well with Du Preez at flyhalf, but their inside center (De Jongh) was useless and that is a fact as well.  Next year under Eddie Jones the situation would be hugely in the WP favour.  
With the exception of their props, Marx, Coetzee and Kotze  I am not overly impressed by other individual players who played on Saturday.   There real backline star - Harold Vorster - did not play on Saturday  due to injury.
However, I think what is said does not deal with players specifically - it deals with the style of rugby played,     That is where the CC teams - with the exception of the Sharks - after changing coaches all improved drastically as a result of more acceptable playing styles.  None of the teams in fact used the stampkar rugby used by the previous coaches and they did better as a result.

          

 ackermann is green as a coach but needs 8 years with a international coach with exp in coaching at the top level to guide him.....what we need to do now is a long term project
mike spot on comment i noticed it as well that meyer told vermeulen not to offload.....then meyer has the arrogance to say they tested that play in the week....which was now looking at vermeulens comment meyer lied through his teeth