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FORUM / RUGBY /  Is there hope for the Boks?

Is there hope for the Boks?

Started by bluebok32 REPLIES479 VIEWS· 22 Jun 2015, 11:08
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BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
22 Jun 2015, 11:08
#1
22 Jun 2015, 11:08#1

After a very poor showing in Super Rugby, there appears to be little hope, but I feel we can still field players in most positions that can match the best in the world. 


One need just look at the scrum performances of the Stormers, which excludes our entire Springbok front row, to know that that area of the game is well sorted. With Etzebeth finding form and with PSDT, who should be recovering soon from injury and a number of other locks, even including Matfield, we are well covered in that position. We have loosies to burn, so we are covered there. Scrummies? Well, we have the talent, but getting the balance between form and experience right is the challenge. Based on form Faf De Klerk should walk into the team, but he has no international experience. Still, we have Hougard, Du Preez and one or two others that are pretty usefull. Pollard at 10 is just dandy. Habana at 11, is still a world class player, but the right wing spot still has some pretty big question marks over it! De Allande at 12 is great, but at 13 I hear crickets and in the distance a dog barking. At 15 Kriel and Le Roux pretty much take care of business. 
I think our two big issues are depth, and some glaring problems in the backline. Depth wise, can you imagine, amongst others, a serious injury to Etzebeth, Habana, Pollard, De Allende. We would be left holding our collective peepees! As for the back line, we can certainly field a competitive backline, but we are deficient at 13 and 14. Which should not be a deal breaker, but against top teams like the AB's, one small deficiency equals a loss, so we need to be smart in filling the two gaps.   
In a nutshell, we can field a pretty competitive team, that could even beat the AB's, though I wouldn't bet on it, even though we have some backline issues, but one or two injuries in critical positions, and we are going to have serious problems!  
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
22 Jun 2015, 11:35
#2
22 Jun 2015, 11:35#2
Sorry about the duplicate. Had some technica l issues.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:00
#3
22 Jun 2015, 15:00#3
We have the players, we just don't have the coach to select the right players and guide them accordingly  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:07
#4
22 Jun 2015, 15:07#4

If you cant select a winning Bok side from these options, you have no hope as a coach:


Fullbacks: Willie & Jessie Kriel


Wings: Habana, JP, Senatla, Combrink, Sithole & v/Wyk


Centres: de Allende, Frans, Serfontein, Vorster, Odendaal, Mapoe & Frans Venter 


Flyhalves: Pollard, Jantjies, Lambie & Goosen


Scrumhalves: Hougaard, Faf, Reinach & Groom


Props: Beast, Jannie, Coenie, Malherbe, Koch, Nyakane, Marcel v/d Merwe & Kitshoff


Hookers: Bismark, Strauss, Ackers and Scara


Locks: Etzebeth, PSDT, Lood, Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, Ruan Botha & Lewies


Loosies: Vermeulen, Elstadt, Kolisi, Carr, Kriel, Whiteley, Arno Botha, CJ Stander, Brussouw, v/d Walt, Labs, Mtembu, Oupa  & Coetzee

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:27
#5
22 Jun 2015, 15:27#5
it always gladens my heart when ou snapster talks some sense. We can be as confident as we are confident in the coach. The talent is obviously there. Not that this is always apparent when reviewing ou snapsters selections.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:36
#6
22 Jun 2015, 15:36#6
PSDT....hahaha....Bloo you do believe in the tooth fairy.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:49
#7
22 Jun 2015, 15:49#7
I'd have PSDT crocked as he is now ahead of Matfield anyday  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2015, 16:20
#8
22 Jun 2015, 16:20#8
 Mozart
And you believe in Grandma Victoria Matfield.   
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 17:31
#9
22 Jun 2015, 17:31#9

Apparently Matfield schooled PSDT when they played eachother earlier in the year.....that was when Vic gained all of 6m and took 1 line-out ball, never beat a single defender.....but hey ho he did make his tackles!!


PSDT's stats were literally 5 times better but somehow Vic was in charge on the day.....I kid you not

 

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
22 Jun 2015, 18:09
#10
22 Jun 2015, 18:09#10
The fan favourites are failures, that's the problem. It will take a few years to develop a genuine crop of next gen test players. Nothing Meyer can do about that. Nothing any replacement will be able to do either. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 18:47
#11
22 Jun 2015, 18:47#11
Matfield schooled PSDT, but it was only a primary school lesson. This kid Is miles away from being a seasoned test lock....and his WC "dream" when he has never ever been first choice for the Boks is a media fiction. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2015, 19:11
#12
22 Jun 2015, 19:11#12
 Matfield is miles past his sell-by date - and he cannot school anyone.   There is no more fiction that Matfield - the great line-out specialist who in his last Super 125 game was poor in the line-outs - made 5 tackles missing 1 and did nothing in ball carries and did his normal giving away a penalty.
A non-performing lock like Matfield cannot school anyone - and that is a fact of life.   The fact that one writer wrote that schooling story - being quoted endlessly on this site  - is real media fiction.     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 20:56
#13
22 Jun 2015, 20:56#13
The commentators said the same thing.....I guess...because it was true. One lineout on the Bools5 metre line and Stephanie was jumping at 7.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2015, 15:42
#14
23 Jun 2015, 15:42#14
 Mozart
Commentators say funny things during matches - often enough having no impact on the games as a whole.    You talk about schooling - which factually was not in evidence.   Lets look at the stats:-
PS du Toit0/000/2/828121015/46/010/0
Matfield0/100/4/76000110/01/110/0
Lets look at the line-out situation as well.   Whenever Du toit was lined up against Matfield he called for the line-outs to go elsewhere.   Ultimately Matfield during a line out moved to the front of the line-out where he stole one line-out and caught 1 on own throw.   Du Toit had to try and call line-outs to come to him - his lock partner was utterly useless in line-outs - but the difference is that unlike Matfield he did not chicken out when making line-out calls.   
When it comes to ball carries Du Toit was by a mile better than Matfield.   For the rest Du Toit had to cover many more tackles than Matfield did - Du Toit missed for out of 19 tackle attempts, but matfield only make 10 tackles.   The difference was that Du Toit made strong tackles - Matfield weak process tackles.
Matfield is not physically strong enough to be a lock and there is no evidence that the schooling story was of any value.   Matter of fact Matfield did nothing of real value in that game - while Du Toit had to cover for a largely deficient performances by other Sharks players.
This is a sick story - a flawed argument that is really not substantiated by anything concrete.        
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jun 2015, 16:33
#15
23 Jun 2015, 16:33#15

Yep Mike and good old Moz has Matfield schooling PSDT........bwhaaaahaaaaa........ignorance is bliss......it really is.



The joke is, PSDT was at least 3 times better (literally) than Matfield on the day.....but some clowns have Matfield schooling PSDT.....its insulting that some people can be so stupid.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
23 Jun 2015, 19:23
#16
23 Jun 2015, 19:23#16
 
Must agree, Blue. We definitely have the boys to beat all comers.

PSDT is a class act, however you and I both know that Matfield is a favourite of Meyer and will no doubt be made captain.

Eben and PSDT will fight it out for the 4 jersey.

HouGat must be kept as far away from the Bok 9 jersey as possible. In fact ... from any 9 jersey if possible.

Meyer is going to screw this up for us. Mark my words. I have no confidence in him. He's not interested in talent. He prefers caps and the elderly.


BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
23 Jun 2015, 21:25
#17
23 Jun 2015, 21:25#17

 We definitely have the boys to beat all comers.-

I am not sure that we do have the backs who are as physical and fast to outplay/outmuscle their opponents.


However I do believe we can have a dominant scrum. No need to choose between Eben and PSDT for 4. I see no reason why Eben cannot be 4 and PSDT our 5. Will discuss Matfield in a minute.


Meyer will not play Hougat at 9. If Meyer had him in mind as the Boks 9 he would have asked Ludeke to play him there during the past S15. My guess is Meyer will stay conservative with Reinach, but I will not rule out a surprise selection in FaF.


One of my greatest worries is Pollard. We have seen some nice stuff from him, but also less nice moments. His line- and place kicking has been average so far. Is he really the wunderkind so many said? Do not be surprised if Meyer falls back on Morne. (I would have selected Pollard and hope for the best). 


If Jean fails to get fit for the RWC then Meyer has no option but to select Matfield. I agree he does not count for much in open field play and will also tend to weaken our scrum. One has to weigh this against his lineout ability and the importance of having him there will depend on the makeup of the rest of the lineout. Difficult choice.

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
23 Jun 2015, 22:13
#18
23 Jun 2015, 22:13#18
PSDT...... way too much hype. At best, inexperienced. At worst, unproven and injury prone. A talent? of course, but not a burgeoning one. He isn't a game changer like Etzebeth showed against the Lions.
Only 2 Springbok caps and 9 Super Rugby games in the past two seasons. Somehow he deserves a shoo-in to the starting Bok 15? When were we so desperate in the lock department? Why rush him back only to shove him into the cauldron of the RWC where the hits are uncompromising. Just asking for trouble imo.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Jun 2015, 23:06
#19
23 Jun 2015, 23:06#19
PSDT is one of those special talents.......when fit, he will always be in the Bok mix much like Etzebeth always will be
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2015, 23:28
#20
23 Jun 2015, 23:28#20
Stephanie is not a special talent.....even if he believes he is. Like Marcel he has lots of energy, but there are  many stronger locks in the country. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
24 Jun 2015, 00:09
#21
24 Jun 2015, 00:09#21
 PSDT ? wots that ? some sort of post battle syndrome is it ?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2015, 00:17
#22
24 Jun 2015, 00:17#22
Haha....new form of DDT.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2015, 05:21
#23
24 Jun 2015, 05:21#23
 The worst selection if we want any dominance up front would be Matfield.   The man has zero grunt and his only claim to fame - his line out play - has dwindled to hovering between 1 and 3 line out takes per match.   When up against stronger line out players he calls line outs to everybody but himself.   He lost or fumbled crucial line outs against the AB's because he is not the line out jumper he used to be.
What is the remainder of his use then?  Moonlighting in the backline making weak tackles on players  - is that what we need a lock for?   
    
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
24 Jun 2015, 13:49
#24
24 Jun 2015, 13:49#24
 I hear Vermuelrn is off to Toulon ,some very unhappy Stormers at the moment.I reckon the ABS have it right with not selecting players from overseas.So often the aussies in particular have found that players returning from "oop North " have been de-skilled .
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Jun 2015, 14:04
#25
24 Jun 2015, 14:04#25
Well said Mike.Eben and Willemse against england.
Eben and Du Toit against the weaker ab pack where mobility is needed to counter netball rugby.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
24 Jun 2015, 14:22
#26
24 Jun 2015, 14:22#26
 Maybe your mob should go check out some netball beandik,maybe they could get a few pointers as it seems your lot need it .Might get them to harden up a bit too by comparison .So did the stormers do as you predicted and not get a butt kicking eh stupid ?Winning using netball rugby beats watching someone elses team winning and watching from the side-lines eh dopey ?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Jun 2015, 14:37
#27
24 Jun 2015, 14:37#27

Come now Oi. PSDT was rampant earlier this year. Yes he does tend to injure easily, however have you taken note of who's in our world cup pool?

The perfect time to loose him up for a few more caps and get him ready for the bigger boys.

Keeping him back home just cause he doesn't have the necessary caps is silly.

Wait a moment ... your a Matfield man, right?


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2015, 14:47
#28
24 Jun 2015, 14:47#28

Say Carbuncle....weren't you the fool who was convinced Marnitz Boshoff was the future at Bok 10.....hahahahahaha. And then when he imploded at the CC final, was again convinced it was just one game.

 

 

Perhaps rugby isn't your thing.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Jun 2015, 15:03
#29
24 Jun 2015, 15:03#29
 
Carbuncle?? I presume that's me, right?

Yeah I was convinced and still am. It's a matter of confidence ... that's all.

With it you can conquer the world ... without it your no more than the rest of us ordinary folk.

A confident Tiger Woods is a world beater ... a Tiger without confidence is a foul mouthed, tantrum throwing nobody ...

Marnitz has the talent. As is the case with many, talent isn't the only requisite needed.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2015, 15:08
#30
24 Jun 2015, 15:08#30

So a world beater, except he has no confidence? Silly stuff. Tiger Woods lost his confidence after two serious knee operations and back surgery. Like Goosen he hasn't come back from back surgery....I know of no golfer who has been any good after back surgery.

 

 

So no, even apart from the fact that Woods was the best in the world and Boshoff is a journeyman, they are not the same thing. Boshoff lost his nerve the moment he experienced real pressure.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Jun 2015, 15:20
#31
24 Jun 2015, 15:20#31
 
Really? It's not Tiger's lack of confidence but his back, huh?

The man I watched over the weekend looked as if he doubted his ability ... his back had nothing to do with it.

Yes he is an accomplished champion and Marnitz not.

Still, both have confidence issues. It's obvious ... do I really have to explain it to you?



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2015, 23:12
#32
24 Jun 2015, 23:12#32
Yes explain it to me.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Jun 2015, 10:37
#33
25 Jun 2015, 10:37#33
is there hope for the Boks?

yes.

is there hope the Boks will win the RC/4nats and the RWC?

no.
— END OF THREAD —

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