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Jean a loss, Frans a loss....Stepfontein to start?

Started by Mozart16 REPLIES472 VIEWS· 28 Sept 2015, 16:30
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 16:30
#1
28 Sept 2015, 16:30#1

Jean de Villiers’s World Cup exit has left the Springboks light on leadership as well as experienced midfield options, writes JON CARDINELLI.

De Villiers has fractured his jaw and will play no further part in this year’s global tournament. The injury has robbed the Boks of a leader, as well as a wily campaigner who can man the No 13 channel on defence.

Some have described the departure of the 34-year-old centre as a blessing in disguise. They reason that De Villiers never fully recovered from the knee injury sustained in 2014. They say it was a gamble to take De Villiers to the 2015 World Cup.

They believe his exclusion will afford a more deserving player an opportunity to start, and a more savvy player a chance to lead. They reckon the Boks will avoid making the same mistakes of 2011 now that the young bucks are in the frame.

I disagree. The injury to De Villiers is no blessing in disguise. On the contrary, his departure has placed the Boks in an unenviable position with regard to their centre stocks.

The Bok plan worked this past Saturday. South African outmuscled and outmanoeuvred their Samoan counterparts to claim a convincing 46-6 victory.

The midfield combination of Damian de Allende and De Villiers showed promise, while Jesse Kriel certainly made an impact from the bench in the second stanza. Fitness permitting, that is the formula that should have been utilised over the course of the World Cup.

Of course, that statement is made in the context of the players selected in the initial 31-man squad. The biggest gamble wasn’t the selection of De Villiers. Heyneke Meyer took a chance with the selections of De Allende and Kriel, two attack-minded players who have yet to establish themselves as reliable defenders. The pair’s tackle stats in 2015 Rugby Championship confirm that they’re not the most rounded players on the international circuit.

If De Villiers had wilfully stood in the way of a Frans Steyn or Jaque Fourie, then one could make a case for history repeating itself. Four years ago, John Smit was backed as the Bok captain and the starting No 2 even though Bismarck du Plessis was at that stage the best hooker in the world. The same cannot be said of De Allende and Kriel in 2015. A case may, however, have been made for Steyn or Fourie to start ahead of De Villiers if they were all in the squad of 31.

Nevertheless, De Villiers may still have added value as a squad member. He’s played 109 Tests. He knows what it takes to man that No 13 channel, and what it takes to win the big Tests.

With his departure, the Boks are left with three relative rookies in midfield. De Allende is into his second season as a Test player. Kriel made his international debut two months ago. Jan Serfontein may have 21 caps to his name, but has started on just 11 occasions.

Serfontein has played much of his Super Rugby and Test career at inside centre. De Allende is a specialist 12. Handré Pollard has played at 12 for the Bulls and slotted in at 12 for the Boks in the latter stages of the match against Samoa.

The big question is who should play 13 now that De Villiers is no longer with the team. Kriel battled with his positioning on defence over the course of the Rugby Championship, and in the recent pool match against Japan.

Meyer has painted himself into a corner, though, as there are no other outside centre options in the current squad. Unless, of course, he revisits the experiment of JP Pietersen at No 13.

The Boks are set for a significant challenge this coming Saturday. Scotland will test the Boks at the breakdowns and on defence. They will target the Boks' inexperienced, and possibly experimental, midfield combination.

The Boks may miss De Villiers in that No 13 channel this week, and in the play-offs. Meyer may also come to regret not selecting someone like Steyn or Fourie in his initial 31-man squad.

If they come through their respective fitness tests this week, De Allende and Kriel will have a lot to prove.


AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
28 Sept 2015, 16:43
#2
28 Sept 2015, 16:43#2
 Obviously circumstances dictate Frans couldn't come but he would have been my replacement. Experienced, good under pressure. Another boot in the back line, and it's always useful to have someone who can slot penalties over from 60 metres. 

Serfontein won't let us down though, he's solid. And very sound defensively.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2015, 16:46
#3
28 Sept 2015, 16:46#3
 Mozart
Frans Steyn was for three years the worse attacking and defending center in any of the SA franchises in Super 15 - even some would disagree - but he was essentially no real candidate for selection based on performance since he came back from France.   In most matches he was in fact putrid - this was also clear statistically.   Your heading implied he was a loss - but he never was in fact a loss - but for losing himself as a player over the last three years.
Jean is a great loss as a leader and in rugby intellect - but to replace him we have just De Allende and on his outside Kriel - the result of a poor selection of suitable players to ultimately take over during the past 7 years - should anything happen to players like Fourie who went sour and Jean forced into retirement.
Steyn as a possible replacement alternative is a serious joke - he had no decent game since 2011 and was often an emarrrassment.     
  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 16:55
#4
28 Sept 2015, 16:55#4
Nonsense Pervert.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Sept 2015, 17:01
#5
28 Sept 2015, 17:01#5

Jean has been a passenger for the past 2 years......his exit means the Boks chance of competing has increased.


Great player in his day, utterly useless these days.....a liability that stalled the attacking clout of the Bok backs.......while Jean was at 12 or 13, the Bok backs were stagnant.


Add de Allende/Kriel and it all changes


Jean was done 2 years ago - only a complete idiot would call it any other way  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 17:08
#6
28 Sept 2015, 17:08#6
Seems all the thinkers in the game are complete idiots then..and morons like you are thinkers. You are so stupid you miss about half of what happens out there. How you can even coach school rugby is a mystery. But I suppose being a Saffa helps and they are probably hard pressed to find anybody.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Sept 2015, 17:26
#7
28 Sept 2015, 17:26#7

Moffie I only need to look at our recent record and insult of a loss to Japan and the scathing attacking on the team for that loss to know that the only fucking idiot out there is you......the lone idiot defending such an insult of a loss with lame excuses..........too fucking stupid to realise that there is absolutely no excuse in the world to lose to Japan.


Best of all you think all is back on track after a win against Samoa


Keep making your name mud old man......its a good laugh


The only way you will EVER save face is if Meyer as his bunch of geriatrics go on to win the WC


Like that is ever going to happen


You are too stupid to see the obvious.....just like Meyer is  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 17:57
#8
28 Sept 2015, 17:57#8
Jean and Schalk make the Sky Sports Team of the Week...silly buggers they never consulted with one of the great thinkers in the game....Omelette Man.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2015, 18:15
#9
28 Sept 2015, 18:15#9
 Mozart
Name me one case where Steyn was even a half decent center over the last three years on Super 15 level - the amazing player -
*   with 2 line breaks beating 17 tackles over the last two years; and*   a worse defending record than De Allende in those two years.
Please note that that indeed was the worst record of any center in any of the SA  Super franchises - it would mean destruction of the SA backline to have him in the team.  Meyer knows it - that is why despite his reputation and because of the fact he is at present useless liability, he was not selected as a Springbok squad member.           
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 19:50
#10
28 Sept 2015, 19:50#10
 I have shown you over and over again the Sharks have a much better record with Frans playing, because he provides nous, leadership and inside power. In fact the sequence when Frans played 10 for the Sharks in 2014, they had the best winning ratio of any S15 team. I'm certainly not going to bother educating you again.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Sept 2015, 21:03
#11
28 Sept 2015, 21:03#11
You want to tell me that kicking at goals that won them matches last year was more important than constant failure in attacking and defending play Steyn produced?   This year he did not kick at goal at all and flopped badly at flyhalf in the one game he played in against the Force.  For the rest he played at center and was atrocious.  
Over the last two years he was generous in providing ball possession losses - last year 32 in total and 8 penalties and this year another string of penalties with the addition of a red card and a five week ban - plus a yellow card as well.   Generous guy wqe have here and you want this one in teh Springbok team.
To be quite frank Steyn over the last three years was really BS - a real liability for any team he plays in.   .       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2015, 23:42
#12
28 Sept 2015, 23:42#12
It had nothing to do with goal kicking...everything to do with bottling up the channel, having some physicality...using  some vision. And I don't mean to tell you anything...you asked And being a polite fella I responded. Whether you believe me is of no importance to me at all. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 Sept 2015, 23:57
#13
28 Sept 2015, 23:57#13
The inside centre is considered a third flanker. Frans opens up space for the backs and can distribute better than most of our halfbacks. He was the best Sharks centre over the past three years. In fact, the team deteriorated when Frans wasn't present. Frans is not a good 1v1 runner like Damian, but he is a better inside centre. Damian is not a 12 by nature . Serfontein would be better, but Damian would be very risky on defence at 13. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Sept 2015, 04:21
#14
29 Sept 2015, 04:21#14
 This is BS.  This fairy tale about Frans Steyn being a player who creates space is a figment of the imagination of Mozart and DF.   What effectively happened since 2012 was that Fransie never created space for anybody - he was unable to do that and it just never happened.  His ball distribution was a joke as well.  People who imagine it happens is grossly distorting things.  The Sharks backline was neutralized because of three things since 2012 - 
*   the fact that Fransie did not create space for anybody and ineffectively crashballed whenever he tried to carry the ball - often enough losing possession or being penalized for hanging onto the ball when tackled;
*   the fact that his passing game was a joke - often enough inaccurate or ill-considered skip passes when the ball should be pass form hand to hand with the result that he eliminated overlaps; and
*   the most inaccurate and ill-considered kicks that went against his teams interests.  
In 2014 - considered by Mozart as his glory-year - Fransie had more ball possession losses (32 in total) and gave away more penalties (8 in total) than any other center in Super 15.
The guy went sour in France and came back to SA in a wretched physical condition - mostly unfit and slow - and he never really recovered since then.        
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Sept 2015, 08:39
#15
29 Sept 2015, 08:39#15
 
"He was the best Sharks centre over the past three years by far" ...

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!

Good one, Inbred!! Daddy's DNA is really showing itself here.

Don't let the fact that he's been overweight, out of shape, off form and still prone to moments of madness dissuade you!!

Don't let the fact that he loves taking "woer woer" drop shots from his own 10 yard line, missing 95% of them, all in search for the glory he feels he deserves, dissuade you.

He is a below average club player, nothing more.

He hasn't seen ANY of the form he displayed in 2007 and that by the way was simply a flash in the pan. 

To add to that, the fat arse has been playing soft rugby in Japan ... hence the flabby midsection.

Actually ... he's perfect for Meyer's team.




DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Sept 2015, 08:56
#16
29 Sept 2015, 08:56#16
 "Omelette Man." Nothings changed then......        
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Sept 2015, 09:32
#17
29 Sept 2015, 09:32#17
DF
Just one question?  Why is the Sharks backline in the CC with a center pairing of Esterhuizen and Jordaan so much more effective than when Fransie was playing at center?  Why did the Sharks do nothing to retain him after his contract with them lapsed this year?  They were - I am told - mightily relieved from carrying on with the vast over-expenditure they made to him annually getting a very bad return for their money.
By the way - I have serious reservations about the threat Fransie posed at Montpellier and Alberts at Stade Francais to the food supply chain of France.  The departure of  Steenkamp will ease the crisis - but that is by now means certain.      

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