So your whole argument is based on me posting the Mann chart, without it being part of my chain of logic. In fact if you look at the interplay between Cloudy and me, you will see it was totally gratuitous....a joke. Let's face it you got pissed because I suggested you should do your research. Jumped on what you thought was a weakness....and went on the attack.
You then made a total fool of yourself on this thread, so you had to refer back to that supposed embarrassment to counter. Then you support your position by telling us about the company you founded, and how you got your degree in three years from some correspondence school ....but didn't need to educate yourself any further, because you were just perfect already.
I think we know what you are.
Well you see Shark the trouble lies in how you ask the question. Asking the question, framing it right, is half the battle. And if you have studied as many of these macro statistical efforts as I have, as a doctoral student, consultant and executive you conclude that researchers frame the question to get the results they want.
Don't believe these studies without doing your homework is my advice.
Well you see Shark the trouble lies in how you ask the question. Asking the question, framing it right, is half the battle. And if you have studied as many of these macro statistical efforts as I have, as a doctoral student, consultant and executive you conclude that researchers frame the question to get the results they want.
I'll give you an example. A famous heart drug was tested on 6000 patients. In the set of 3000 that took the drug 20 people died.....in the set that didn't 30 died. On the basis of that the drug company claimed they reduced morbidity by a third. But actually if the results were accurate, a big if, your chance of a heart attack declined by 10 in 3000. If you took the drug your chances of a heart attack were 0.67%....if you didn't take it they were 1%.
Now that's a meanigful difference of say 6.7% if you use the drug for 20 years and the efficacy remains constant. But of course over that time your liver and kidneys are taking a beating detoxing the chemistry.
Is it worth it....a 33% reduction in the likelyhood of a heart attack next year seems worth it.....but not a 6.7% reduction in actual heart attacks over 20 years, accompanied by cases of liver damage.
No doubt if you include the poor countries of Europe and S America you will get a strong correlation with religion and IQs. But that's a false correlation based on the underlying varaiable the GNP in religious countries.
Don't believe these studies without doing your homework is my advice.
And I posted this:
And I like this one. Might as well go back to before the OOm was around. It's interesting that the rise of the Roman Empire, the British Empire and American Power all occurred during "warm" periods. That's probably just a false correlation but worth somebody writing a paper.
Nope the biggest blunder of recent times SB is your claim that Jesus was crucified on Christmas.... ...that's ignorance on a mega scale. I mean it's so stupid as to almost make one believe you are joking. Why would billions of Christians celebrate the death of Jesus every year? You don't need to know the bible to know that view is so illogical as to be absurd.
Embarrassing ignorance, embarrassing logic....and embarrassing manners.
No I'm winning why should I get angry. There are so many ways to blow you out of the water. Here's another:
You say:
"I copied and pasted exactly as you wrote it.
All I did was remove the example that you provided which was hard to read, let alone be a logical example. (It was from 2 posts, but they were back to back posts)" Another huge blunder. Look at the thread headings....the one comes from Global Warming in the Great City.....the other from Science vs Creation Science, in which you have inserted the graph. You are clearly very cavalier about the truth. I'll be gone for a while now, you have a few hours to dig, but basically you are toast.Beandip … you certainly know how to stuff up as you go along. You are not doing the Christian Faith any good with your nonsensical ramblings.
God the Father … Jesus the Son … and The Holy Spirit … a Trinity … each a separate entity ... 3 individuals making the Godhead. Three in one.
The Father is not the Son. Nowhere is He EVER referred to as the Son. Nowhere is Jesus the Christ EVER referred to as the Father. NOWHERE!!!!!!!!
You have NO understanding.
I bet you even think His name is Jehovah, right?
Perhaps it be best you rather shut your friggin yap.
We will start off rather gently, which isnt my M.O… but rather for your sake. Please note that I didnt make this stuff up! I just Prove THE OBVIOUS ONCE IT IS KNOWN! So if you happen to disagree with historical fact, trust me, you’ll find out whats REALLY been going on in the world ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. THE LIE GOES FAR DEEPER THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE….Its better to find out from me, than under less suitable circumstances. THIS ARTICLE WILL MAKE DA VINCI CODE LOOK LIKE KINDERGARTEN CHILDS PLAY!
The premise of this article will prove to you that the ANCIENT ROMAN EMPIRE, who is responsible for the murder of the Christ, is the very same EMPIRE that now dictates ALL MODERN WESTERN RELIGION through the Vatican’s pompous, pious, lavish and decadent seizure of all global commerce, world governments and social systems…. so PLEASE STAY WITH ME HERE, ITS A DISCOVERY THAT WILL SET YOUR SOUL FREE FOREVER, I PROMISE! If you only but take the TIME AND COURAGE to do so.
NEW information DOES NOT DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE CREATOR, only what we know the Creator to be. So put on your armor of God if you must, and take my hand as we walk this journey together. EVERYTHING in this article is VETTED by many different cited sources AND PROVEN TO BE TRUE FROM MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES…. WITHOUT QUESTION. I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE YOU LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF!!
Most members who pay generously to the Church, will claim that they say Amen at the end of prayer because it means, “so be it,” the very same as “so mote it be” in occult (hidden) teachings. Unfortunately they overlook something very important. Amen, Amen-Ra is the Egyptian Sun God. So every time they say Amen, they are paying homage to the Egyptian Sun God.
In Revelation, Jesus is portrayed as Amen where it says “these things say the Amen”, the faithful and true witness. In Matthew, it says Jesus as a child was taken to Egypt to fulfill the prophecy, “out of Egypt have I called my son”.
The Amen was called out of Egypt. Jesus as the Amen Sun God is described in scripture as having a life that duplicates the signs of the Zodiac. Born of Virgo the virgin in September. Crucified on Crux the Southern Cross in December. Three days in the tomb of the winter solstice Dec 22, 23rd and 24th. Reborn out of the solstice tomb on Dec 25th. Enters the waterman Aquarius in February. Selects his disciples from FISHer-men, in March, Pisces the FISH! Becomes the Lamb of God in April in Aries the LAMB! Sits at the East or right hand of power, June 21 Summer solstice. Ends His work in August as Leo the Lion of Judah. But there’s more… And it is in you! THE CHRIST WITHIN YOU!
While the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (reigned 306–337) ruled, Christianity began to transition to the dominant religion of the Roman Empire. Historians remain uncertain about Constantine's reasons for favoring Christianity, and theologians and historians have argued about which form of Early Christianity he subscribed to. Although Constantine had been exposed to Christianity by his mother Helena, there is no consensus among scholars as to whether he adopted his mother's Christianity in his youth, or gradually over the course of his life,[1] and he did not receive baptism until shortly before his death.[2][3]
Constantine's decision to cease the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire was a turning point for Early Christianity, sometimes referred to as the Triumph of the Church, the Peace of the Church or theConstantinian shift. In 313, Constantine and Licinius issued the Edict of Milan decriminalizing Christian worship. The emperor became a great patron of the Church and set a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor within the Church and the notion of orthodoxy, Christendom, ecumenical councils and the state church of the Roman Empire declared by edict in 380. He is revered as a saint and isapostolos in the Eastern Orthodox Church and Oriental Orthodox Church for his example as a "Christian monarch."
The first recorded official persecution of Christians on behalf of the Roman Empire was in AD 64, when, as reported by the Roman historian Tacitus, Emperor Nero attempted to blame Christians for the Great Fire of Rome. According to Church tradition, it was during the reign of Nero that Peter and Paul were martyred in Rome. However, modern historians debate whether the Roman government distinguished between Christians and Jews prior to Nerva's modification of the Fiscus Judaicus in 96, from which point practicing Jews paid the tax and Christians did not.[4]
Christians suffered from sporadic and localized persecutions over a period of two and a half centuries. Their refusal to participate in Imperial cult was considered an act of treason and was thus punishable by execution. The most widespread official persecution was carried out by Diocletian. During the Great Persecution (303–311), the emperor ordered Christian buildings and the homes of Christians torn down and their sacred books collected and burned. Christians were arrested, tortured, mutilated, burned, starved, and condemned to gladiatorial contests to amuse spectators.[5] The Great Persecution officially ended in April 311, when Galerius, senior emperor of the Tetrarchy, issued an edict of toleration, which granted Christians the right to practice their religion, though it did not restore any property to them.[6] Constantine, Caesar in the Western empire and Licinius, Caesar in the East, also were signatories to the edict of toleration.[7] It has been speculated that Galerius' reversal of his long-standing policy of Christian persecution has been attributable to one or both of these co-Caesars.[8]
Constantine was exposed to Christianity by his mother, Helena, but he was over 42 when he finally declared himself a Christian.[9] Writing to Christians, Constantine made clear that he believed his successes were owed to the protection of that High God alone.[10]
Eusebius of Caesarea and other Christian sources record that Constantine experienced a dramatic event in 312 at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, after which Constantine claimed the emperorship in the West. According to these sources, Constantine looked up to the sun before the battle and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "?? ????? ????" (~in this sign, conquer!), often rendered in a Latin version, "in hoc signo vinces"(–in this sign, you will conquer). Constantine commanded his troops to adorn their shields with a Christian symbol (the Chi-Rho), and thereafter they were victorious.[1][11]
Following the battle, the new emperor ignored the altars to the gods prepared on the Capitoline and did not carry out the customary sacrifices to celebrate a general's victorious entry into Rome, instead heading directly to the imperial palace.[10] Most influential people in the empire, however, especially high military officials, had not been converted to Christianity and still participated in the traditional religions of Rome; Constantine's rule exhibited at least a willingness to appease these factions. The Roman coins minted up to eight years after the battle still bore the images of Roman gods.[1] The monuments he first commissioned, such as the Arch of Constantine, contained no reference to Christianity.[10][12]
In 313 Constantine and Licinius announced "that it was proper that the Christians and all others should have liberty to follow that mode of religion which to each of them appeared best",[13] thereby granting tolerance to all religions, including Christianity. The Edict of Milan went a step further than the earlier Edict of Toleration by Galerius in 311, returning confiscated Church property. This edict made the empire officially neutral with regard to religious worship; it neither made the traditional religions illegal nor made Christianity the state religion, as occurred later with the Edict of Thessalonica. The Edict of Milan did, however, raise the stock of Christianity within the empire and it reaffirmed the importance of religious worship to the welfare of the state.[14]
The accession of Constantine was a turning point for early Christianity. After his victory, Constantine took over the role of patron of the Christian faith. He supported the Church financially, had an extraordinary number ofbasilicas built, granted privileges (e.g., exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high-ranking offices, returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian,[15] and endowed the church with land and other wealth.[16] Between 324 and 330, Constantine built a new imperial capital at Byzantium on the Bosporos, which would be named Constantinople for him. Unlike "old" Rome, the city began to employ overtly Christian architecture, contained churches within the city walls and had no pre-existing temples from other religions.[17]
In doing this, however, Constantine required those who had not converted to Christianity to pay for the new city.[16] Christian chroniclers tell that it appeared necessary to Constantine "to teach his subjects to give up their rites (...) and to accustom them to despise their temples and the images contained therein,"[18] This led to the closure of temples because of a lack of support, their wealth flowing to the imperial treasure;[19] Constantine did not need to use force to implement this.[16] Only the chronicler Theophanes has added that temples "were annihilated", but this was considered "not true" by contemporary historians.[20]
Many times imperial favor was granted to Christianity by the Edict; new avenues were opened to Christians, including the right to compete with other Romans in the traditional cursus honorum for high government positions, and greater acceptance into general civil society. Constantine respected cultivated persons, and his court was composed of older, respected, and honored men. Men from leading Roman families who declined to convert to Christianity were denied positions of power yet still received appointments, even up to the end of his life, and two-thirds of his top government were non-Christian.
Constantine's laws enforced and reflected his Christian reforms. Crucifixion was abolished for reasons of Christian piety, but was replaced with hanging, to demonstrate the preservation of Roman supremacy. On March 7, 321, Sunday, the Day of the Sun, was declared an official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,[21] except for the purpose of freeing slaves. The Christians reacted to this by moving their Sabbath from the tradition Jewish day to Sunday. There were, however, no restrictions on performing farming work, which was the work of the great majority of the population, on Sundays.[22]
Some laws made during his reign were even humane in the modern sense, possibly inspired by his Christianity:[23] a prisoner was no longer to be kept in total darkness but must be given the outdoors and daylight; a condemned man was allowed to die in the arena, but he could not be branded on his "heavenly beautified" face, since God was supposed to have made man in his image, but only on the feet.[24] Publicly displayed Gladiatorial games were ordered to be eliminated in 325.
In 331, Constantine commissioned Eusebius to deliver fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople. Athanasius (Apol. Const. 4) recorded around 340 Alexandrian scribes preparing Bibles for Constans. Little else is known. It has been speculated that this may have provided motivation for canon lists, and that Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are examples of these Bibles. Together with the Peshitta and Codex Alexandrinus, these are the earliest extant Christian Bibles.[25]
The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor in the Church. Emperors considered themselves responsible to God for the spiritual health of their subjects, and thus they had a duty to maintain orthodoxy.[26] The emperor did not decide doctrine — that was the responsibility of the bishops — rather his role was to enforce doctrine, root out heresy, and uphold ecclesiastical unity.[27] The emperor ensured that God was properly worshiped in his empire; what proper worship (orthodoxy) and doctrines and dogma consisted of was for the Church to determine.[28]
In 316, Constantine acted as a judge in a North African dispute concerning the Donatist controversy. More significantly, in 325 he summoned the First Council of Nicaea, effectively the first Ecumenical Council (unless the Council of Jerusalem is so classified).[29]Nicaea however was to deal mostly with the Arian controversy. Constantine was torn between the Arian and Trinitarian camps. After the Nicene council and against its conclusions, he eventually recalled Arius from exile and banished Athanasius of Alexandria toTrier.
Just before his death in May 337, Constantine was baptised into the Arian version of Christianity[30] by his distant relative Arian Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia. During Eusebius of Nicomedia's time in the Imperial court, the Eastern court and the major positions in the Eastern Church were held by Arians or Arian sympathizers.[31] With the exception of a short period of eclipse, Eusebius enjoyed the complete confidence both of Constantine and Constantius II and was the tutor of Emperor Julian the Apostate.[32] After Constantine's death, his son and successor Constantius II was an Arian, as was Emperor Valens.
Constantine's position on the religions traditionally practiced in Rome evolved during his reign. In fact, his coinage and other official motifs, until 325, had affiliated him with the pagan cult of Sol Invictus. At first, Constantine prohibited the construction of new temples[33] and tolerated traditional sacrifices;[10] by the end of his reign, he had begun to order the pillaging and tearing down of Roman temples.[34][35][36]
Beyond the limes, east of the Euphrates, the Sassanid rulers of the Persian Empire, perennially at war with Rome, had usually tolerated Christianity. Constantine is said to have written to Shapur II in 324 and urged him to protect Christians under his rule.[37] With the establishment of Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire, Christians in Persia would be regarded as allies of Persia's ancient enemy. According to an anonymous Christian account, Shapur II wrote to his generals:[38]
You will arrest Simon, chief of the Christians. You will keep him until he signs this document and consents to collect for us a double tax and double tribute from the Christians … for Our Godhead[39] have all the trials of war and they have nothing but repose and pleasure. They inhabit our territory and agree with Caesar, our enemy.
—Shapur II, A History of Christianity in Asia: Beginnings to 1500
The "Great Persecution" of the Persian Christian churches occurred between 340-363 CE, after the Persian Wars that reopened upon Constantine's death.
Constantinian shift is a term used by Anabaptist and Post-Christendom theologians to describe the political and theological aspects of Constantine's legalization of Christianity in the 4th century.[40] The term was popularized by the Mennonite theologian John H. Yoder.[41]
Now keep in mind that a "trinity" existed in the pagan Brahman religion
long before Jesus Christ ever walked the earth in the flesh and ages before
a Christian church existed.
A so-called holy book entitled The Vedhas, published by the priests,
established the dogma of the trimourti; trinity of God which soon developed
into polytheism after time. And a host of the most monstrous superstitions
resulted. This was supposedly 12,000 years before our time, under
what was called the Brahmatma Vasichta-Richi.
Pagan Siberia portrayed a trinity also. It showed one body with
three heads on it, as seen on a medal that sits in the Imperial Cabinet
of old St. Petersburg.
India portrayed a similar Trinity under the name of "Eko Deva Trimurtti,"
or "One God, three forms".
Even the concept of a mother, chosen by 'god' to bear a son is copied throughout several different pagan religions and the mother is even 'worshiped' similarly to how the Catholics like to pray to Mary.
Here is an article I used as a reference to answer your question. Its educating to say the least.
http://mikeblume.com/pagantr.htm
Sharky I have no problem with atheists, agnostics or believers in any religion that no longer hurts others. What I do have a problem with is intolerance among the groups and particularly the kind of violence Christians are silently suffering in many parts of the world. Yes I know Christians have a bad history as well...but we have to move forward.
What I don't get though is why Atheists should want to get together.....why, to contemplate the nothingness? The stock answer is to get together to celebrate humanity. These days I'm not so sure we should be celebrated, but in any case, if you wanted to do that why not go to a Beethoven night, a rock concert, a rugby match, hell even a bikers convention?