JJ, the Springbok after thought @13

 Sharkbok 
Sorry to disappoint you - but I think you are wrong here.   Steyn will not play for the Springboks this year and that is a fact - he is injured and is off to Japan after Super 15. It probably is a blessing in disguise - his performances for the Sharks at center was abysmal and if he did the same for the Springboks it would be a disaster.
There were two problems with JJ last year - there were serious question marks about his defense and he showed zero penetration in attacking play.  Meyer was in a quandary and he replaced him with Fourie.   That fixed one of the problems - despite the fact that he is slow (a deficiency exploited twice by Davies in the Wales Test) - the defense problem was in the main  fixed.   The problem which was not fixed was the issue of any role in backline attacking play.  Fourie is no better in attacking play than JJ - so there is still a problem that needs addressing.
I do not think that Meyer is in fact considering De Allende to start at 12.  I think the likelihood is that he wants to start him at 13 and see whether he cannot fill that head ache position with a all-round performing player.  if that is successful - which I think it will be - De Allende will become the fixed 13 and will be difficult to dislodge.  Neither Fourie nor JJ or De Jongh  would even be a consideration. 
In any event I think  Meyer has learnt his lesson with De Jongh - he tried him three times at 13 and he failed all three times badly - so he will not try him again.                       

The logic of the OOM.  He "has learned his lesson with De Jongh" says the repetitive Oompie. But he selects de Jongh for the squad.....even though there are no contractual reasons to do so. A fool and his biases are hard to part.

 Mozart
Ever heard of quota selections?  De Jongh is one of those.  So there is no bias here.   There is a recognition that De Jongh cannot create space and is a very poor defender.  Sorry to disappoint you.   Bad news that one.  

 Mozart
Sorry - I ALWAYS win because my arguments are based on facts - yours on prejudice.  That makes you an easy bunny to play with.   The proof is you always get personal when you are cornered - that says it all.        

Wow Sharktwat, so according to you the Bok side has been named has it - geez how stupid are you?

For the record I'd be more than happy to see de Allende at 13, he is a class act.......as long as its not Fourie or de Jongh I am happy.

The Bulls have their ax blades out, and I think JJ is going to be next. He needs to move to the Wing quickly to rejuvenate or he is going to find himself at the Kings or Cheetas

@Saffex- I would have thought that he would still be in your starting squad for the world Cup Saffex- given you tauted him as the best Bok outside center in the modern era. 

No you twit, I said his display against NZ was the best I have seen from a Bok 13 in many years......the fact that Meyer discarded him so is testament to how useless Meyer is......JJ has lost his mojo since that treatment......he is a spent force......he is off to Japan  

 
Honestly, it's simply a matter of selecting the best person in each position.

JJ is useless as a center. Always has been ... and guess what? ... he always will be.

There is NO BETTER 12 than De Allende currently in South Africa. The 12 jersey belongs to him ... no argument.

Serfontein is mediocre. He has shown this time and time again. I'm not sure how may more times you guys want to watch the rerun of his entry to senior rugby ... but either way, no matter how many times you watch it, IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

He is just not test match material.

Frans Steyn is an over rated turd. He hasn't shown any form since 2007. Give me a break!!

Lionel Mapoe or Vorster are the only options for the Bok 13 jersey.

 

 IMO the boks' best option and surely the only option at centers is to play de Allende at 12 and Serfontain at 13.
De Allende failed in his only start at test level, mainly because of his defense, but he's the best backline player atm in SA, and by far. He's the only SA player who can break the opposite defensive line with his physicallity, he's a must for the boks. He's a pure 12 and with his deficient defense he hardly could play at 13. Serfontain is stronger defensively and can take advantage of de Allende's offloads and breaklines.

If JdV recovers in time Meyer will very probably play him at 12 and displace de Allende to the outside center. If this happens the possibilities of SA of doing something in the WC will fall to almost zero.
It's almost impossible that JdV arrives in form to the WC. At his age several months of playing at SR or lower level are needed after so long injury as we saw with D. Carter. Add to this de Allende and his poor defense playing out of position at 13.

jaques Fourie? really? I think it was very clear in his lasts appearances with the boks that he's no more up to test level. De Jongh is in the same boat and his defense is really poor.

 Vorster could be another option at 13 but he has no experience at test level.
The boks' backline needs experience, with Habana the only really experienced player.
Although if Meyer tries with Vorster during the RC and he proves that he can play at test level, he could be an option.

There are 4 certainties in the Bok backline being de Allende at 12 or 13, Willie at 15, Jessie Kriel on the wing or at 13 and Pollard at 10.
That leaves a centre, wing and scrumhalf to select.
The primary options at centre are Serfontein and Vorster. Secondary options being Odendaal, Frans Venter, Frans Steyn and Mapoe
Other wing options are JP, Habana, Senatla, Sithole, Combrink and v/Wyk.
Scrumhalf options are Hougaard, Faf and Reinach........with Faf the favourite given his form.
My Bok backline would be: 15. Willie 14. Jessie Kriel 13. Vorster 12. de Allende 11. Senatla 10. Pollard 9. Faf......with a bench of Hougaard, Jantjies and Frans Venter
Thats a world beating backline......forget old man Jean, he is long done
My Bok pack would be:
1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. Jacques du Plessis 8. Vermeulen with a bench of Nyakane, Marcel v/d Merwe, Strauss, Arno Botha, Kolisi
I'd be equally happy to have Odendaal, Sithole, Frans Steyn, JP, Goosen, Beast, Koch, Schalk, Carr and Kriel in the mix
Injured - Coenie, Lood, PSDT, Serfontein, Lambie, Reinach and Brussouw

Same old stupid Sapp thinking that gave us JJ the best Bok centre since Danie Gerber and Stepfontein the best young centre in the world....in other words pure unadulterated rubbish.
I mean imagine playing the WC knockouts with an uncapped wing,an uncapped 13, a twelve with one cap, another uncapped wing and an uncapped scrum half. None of whom have played together. 
For heaven sake Dave, stop opining. You moron.  

The problem was caused by Meyer and Meyer only.   He did not look at players to play at center and his selection of wings was also a joke.   He accidentally got stuck with Willie le Roux at fullback when his original dud selection - Kirchner - was injured.   
Now what happened over the period since 2012.   He first center picks were Francois Steyn and Jean De Villiers.  Steyn was grossly overweight and utterly useless  in the five tests he played in.   He got injured, was out for the remainder of 2012.   He came back to play in Super 15 in 2013 - was even more gross in weight - was utterly useless and a liability and was dropped from the Sharks starting line-up because he was clearly no center.   In 2014 he was the worst attacking and defending 12 in any SA Franchise in Super 15 and in 2015 he was no better.   Even Meyer gave up on him I believe.   
Jean de Villiers was then moved to 12 - he never really was a 13.   In 2012 Meyer started experimenting with 13's.   His first choice was Taute - a player who was good at full back and useless at center.   That was followed by De Jongh - who went AWOL in two tests - absolutely useless.   That meant the end of those two as potential 13's - with Engelbrecht on the bench.   In 2013 His next choice at 13 was JJ Engelbrecht - another dud performer in the RC.   So where to next?   Meyer as per usual rushed back to Jacque Fourie - who was solid in defense - useless in any attacking play.   In the June tests against Wales De Villiers was not available due to injury and Serfontein played in the tests against Wales at 12 with JP Pietersen at 13 - the latter flop as expected.   That was followed by De Allende at 13 against Argentina.    The latter in his post-school rugby NEVER played at 13 and although he showed some serious attacking ability in both tests - his inexperience at 13 counted against him and he was replaced by Serfontein.   
Ther above showed that Meyer was really floundering around insofar as center selection is concerned.   None of the 13 showed any real class and there was no continuity so now we are in a parlous situation - still with no 13.   
What about 12?   Also a parlous situation with De Villiers - who was classy in 2013 and much less so in 2014 - still on the injury list.   It is not clear whether De Villiers will return to test rugby.   The latter said he would not make himself available for selection if he feels he was going to let the team down and that creates even further uncertainty.   
So where are we now?   The only obvious candidate for 12 is in the absence of De Villiers is De Allende.   That leaves 13 wide open.   There is no obvious candidate for selection and to dabble further with the likes of De Jongh, Pietersen and Engelbrecht is useless. There are no real candidates for selection.  The floundering Meyer is now stuck in the mess he created in the first instance.   Whomsoever he may go for has serious deficiencies and very little or no experience.   The more experienced players are all duds or not available for future selection.
If De Villiers is out - the problem is that there is a mess at 12 as well and I believe the obvious choice is De Allende, who was by some distance the best center in Super 15 in the no 12 position.    De Villiers - if he is available - always prefer to play at 13 with De Allende at 12 for the Stormers/WP.   If De Villiers is available he would possibly play at 13 with De Allende at 12.   Otherwise the choices at 13 are not obvious with Serfontein the better option, followed by Vorster and Mapoe.   
Being in a mess in the absence of De Villiers - I would rather see that we play De Allende at 12 and Vorster at 13 and see how the pairing goes in the RC.    Vorster showed a lot of class in Super 15 at 13 and despite inexperience was exceptional at 13 for the Lions with the following performance record in that position when he played at 13:-
Highlanders
Vorster1/050/5/74914236/20/000/0
Was playing against Fekitoa - a very good AB player.
Bulls
Vorster0/001/1/74932123/10/000/0

Brumbies
Vorster0/000/0/98424039/30/000/0
Played opposite Kuridrani - who has been in the Wallabies team,
Stormers
Vorster0/002/2/95335116/20/010/0

Summary
Vorster1/053/8/322359154924/80/010/0
His strongest point is attacking play making 235 meters with 32 carries for an average meter gain of 7,34 meters per carry.   In the process he made 9 clean line breaks, beating 15 defenders,    In the four games quoted all his opponents are current or have been  past international players.
The only real negative was a missed tackle ratio of 25% - but then also it must be borne in mind that virtually all potential competitors for selection was even worse in that department of the game.   None of the potential competitors showed anything close to what Vorster has achieved in attacking play.
Under the circumstances I can see only three alternative center combinations,  namely -
*   12  De Allende     13  De Villiers
*   12  De Allende     13  Vorster
*   12  De Allende     13  Serfontein

     
                  

 
Yes Dave, I like that back line of yours.

It's potent and won't stand back for anyone.

No Kriel at 6 ... not even on the bench? Arno hasn't impressed me at all and Kolisi is just not test match material . 

Wot no Marnitz Carbuncle ....waaaaahahahahaha.  

 
Bored are we?