John Plumtree for boks Coach- if Meyer stick with sub-standard Bulls

 If Meyer keeps chosing Bulls like Werner Kruger, Kirchner, Missie Kind- then he has to go. 

I have allot of faith in Meyer except for his player selection favouring Bulls.

The style of play the boks played in the 2nd test against the poms- was much better than anything during the PDV era. It was much better than the one dimensional kick and chase.

So I am a believer in Meyer- he did develop the Bulls into the most succesful Super15 side from South Africa.

However the Sharks style of play is very enterprising- and a good template for 15 man rugby still playing to the strengths of SA rugby.

It would be a shame for Sharks to lose Plumtree- but the boks need to also be playing to their potential. 

Less than one year ago- people were clamering for John Mitchell to be the boks coach- but he is with the Lions- and the way things usually turn out for the Lions is failure. 

It seems South Africa has the best referees and New Zealand the best coaches- far a few exception. 
Meyer is the best SA coach- but is he better than Plumtree or even John Mitchell?

I just want us to have the best rugby team hehe

Plumtree has been able to get the Sharks to be very competitive for a while now however it is the final hurdle that they haven't been able to cross and whether we like it or not that is what he will be judged uopn.

It would be a sad day ifwe dont have a SA coach at the helm of our national team as that would point to a total systemic failiure within our structure to foster, build, encourage, train and support our coaching schools.

 radtad1....I am with you on this one.

A South African must lead a South African rugby team as has always been and should always be!

I think Meyer has a serious problem at hand - or in his mind maybe.He has developed the Bulls over the years with a rather distinctive brand of rugby.   Dominate up front and play ten man rugby.   I think he may think he can ride the storm out by trying that type of rugby in future as well.   Over the past five years he stuck with Morne Steyn through thick and thin.    Justin Marshall said something similar on the Re-Union Programme.   If he drops Morne from the team - he will have to evolve a new playing strategy and that is unlikely to happen.

Is he going to change now - that is the million dollar question.   I believe we may end up with at least four Blue Bulls players in the team with a very restricted strategy of play.    I do not believe that would be a success - whether over the enxt few years or even at the 2015 WC.   The opposing teams have worked out how to counter that type of play and to turn defence over to attack when aimless kicks occur.

We will see soon enough what he does with his team selection.  Th key issue is when he retains Morne Steyn as flyhalfl   That would show what the strategy would be.   I think he will retain Steyn and hope for the best - but there is a small 5% chance that he would change his strategy after he was badly hurt in the tests over the enxt year.

 Really guys, Heynecke has had 3 tests. Has not lost a single one yet. (ok Drew one) but you already want to replace him. And i thought Snorre had it bad. Hemel okes. Give him some time at least. A year in job maybe before you start axing him.!!!!!

first off lets say congrats to plums mentality of going out there and playing some rugby. if one wants to compare playing styles the bulls went there in fear and played only to compete and not to win. the 10 man defence only game has been out of favour even since the new ELV's and coaches that cant understand that will never and i do mean never go all the way. the way in which AC and HM coaches and plays is almost as if time has stood stil in regards of playing pattern and in the end of the day the thing that wins game is your playing pattern. the way how teams are coaches these days are all built on high ball posession attack minded approaches. the rule changes in regards to not kicking the ball out ext ext is the IRB's way of trying to force the game to be quicker and more attacking. so like old HM and AC's wants to point out that brussow has become useless under the new laws so does his aimless kick and pray defence only style also become useless. its progession. either one stays with the curve or fall behind. the sharks pulled of a win with only 31% ball possesion...that is a massive win really massive. a mixture of defence and attack. as the crusaders has shown and the all blacks over the years the team that has the best balance win the most. one does not can you playing style for the sake of playing in a knockout game. if really just ironic how dominant any sa team is where there coach in not bounded to a conservative coach. this stormer bulls limp penile style does not work. even though the stormers are top i dont feel they have the game to chase down a game. they do like a good choke

HM has been on record saying that we dont have the players to play a 15 man game and he is shown wrong weekend after weekend. he just does not have the skill set nor the personal in the national setup to employ this game plan. as the saying goes adapt or die. if we dont adapt this playing patten of 15 man then we as SA can forget of being dominant in world rugby. the stormers and the bulls playing pattern is inferior and the only reason that they are competing is just do to the depth of the players at there disposal. the sharks are getting there in terms of depth in players and will grow from strength to strength. with another 4 odd world class players i feel they can be the benchmark in super rugby. i am proud of my boys in black

I am with Ek on this one. Meyer has done nothing wrong. Please try to remember that the Boks had zero time to prepare for the tests vs England and we still managed to win 2 and draw 1. Also, what has Plum really achieved? A currie cup title, wow, does that mean he is now the best coach for the Boks?? Seriously, pull the other one. And let's not forget that the Sharks team is full of on form Springbok stars. If anything, they have underperformed this year, and only really started to play to their potential in the last six rounds. On paper the Sharks should easily have been the best SA team in the competition, yet they only scraped into the top six. Yes the Bulls and Stormers have their fair share of Boks, but most of the form players are at the Sharks. No, plum is good, but nothing special. Also, since he took over the Sharks they have been inconsistant.

I am not saying Meyer should be fired or anything like that - I am saying that he lives on the belief that we cannot play 15 man rugby and that is a major problem.   Unless Meyer gets away from his 10 man approach - we will never win a WC again.   Rugby is a game for 15 players - not 10 - with five players being decorative and just there for defence only.

If that is indeed Meyer's approach - we are doomed as a rugby playing nation.   That approach is out-dated and cannot work.

However, Meyer - as so rightly pointed out - only coached the Boks in three tests - to wins and one draw.   He had his problems in the tests though - one major one was lack of preparation time.   However, his pivot at 10 had a nightmare series as a whole.   He cannot change that pivot without his game plan being affected.    

The question remains - what is he going to do now.   Is he going to stick around his main pivot - or is he going to change the pivot?  

Maybe he will modernise his game plan - I do not think Meyer has a deficiency in rugby thinking - but he may take a while to adjust from the approch he used in the Blue Bulls set-up to a more modern game plan as a result of lost tests.    Such a change would have to be developed - and he has Erausmus also available to help.   However - his backline coach is a major drawback and will not produce anything - so if he has to change, he would have to get a better backline coach and not another of his supporters with a clueless approach to backline play.     

at mike he will need to change his approach or he not be affective. the backline coach position has always been treated as BEEE window dressing and that is where most of teams have really lacked. with the likes of goosen and co in the wings the stormer blue bulls game plan 10 man game will not work. we will see in the rugby championship how HM will fuse the different styles to create a playing style that is effective and uses all aspects of the game to win....attack alone will not win games nor will defence alone win games. we need balance.

Sharbok I doubt that someone as savvy as Meyer will hang on to sub performing players. One cannot read too much into his first squad selection.

I am still hopeful he is the deal and he will move on and weed out the ones needing to go. My confidence has been a little shaken but I am still hoping. Loubscher had better be an inspired choice. We so need a great backline coach.

Meyer will be there through the next RWC.....hell if PdV and Destroyli saw out their contracts,  anybody can.

But we can ill afford another 4 years of up and unders. If you don't have better backs than NZ you have to keep the ball....not feed it to them on a platter.

feeding your opposing teams strengths is not smart rugby but just plain stupid. kicking to any international teams backline players these days is very much a fail from the get go. we do have the backs to keep the ball and attack. just the coaches seems reluctant or they dont have the skills to coach that type of gameplan

Carpetmucher

With respect - where did you get the info

about the Stormers playin 10 man rugby from?  Only impression - or based on fact?   According to reliable stats the Stormers only scored 27 tries - but of those 21 was scored by backline players - that is the highest percentage number of any of the competing teams.   I agree - they did not score enough tries - but those they did score basically came from backline play - not 10-man rugby.   Even some of the tries scored by forwards were when they were in backline position to receive the ball from other backline players.

I do not normlly go for stats as a basis for argument - but a deduction that the Stormers play 10-man rugby is not based on facts as coming out of the stats on Super 15 games played.

nether am i a stats "person" but if you look at the amount of kicking meters gained to any other team and the amount of times the ball has been kicked the stormers are right up there. that being said there general game plan involves a lot of forward orintated play in and between backline players ext. the amount of tries scored dont reveal much of there game pattern but does show that the times that they do spread it wide they do score some tries. compare there playing pattern to lets say the saders chiefs sharks and co then you see the point i am trying to convey. they kick more than most teams.