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FORUM / RUGBY /  Keo sails into Sa coaches

Keo sails into Sa coaches

Started by Beeno121 REPLIES1,146 VIEWS· 16 Jun 2015, 11:01
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jun 2015, 11:01
#1
16 Jun 2015, 11:01#1
Coaching is just one of many ills. The extremely weak rand is a huge factor as it has resulted in a flood of guys playing overseas. Then there is the quota element also being a hinderance. The effect of bent down under reffing continues to be a huge problem. When the log is viewed at the end of the season all the games where Sa sides were shafted are forgotten and the log taken to reflect the rugby played which is ludicrous.Here though are Keo's comments:

Professional coaches in South Africa, with the exception of Jake White and Nick Mallett (of recent vintage) are a protected breed; rewarded for bowing to elected officials and excused for mediocre results. The winners (like Mallett and White) came with egos and opinions and a disregard for those whose status is the result of politicking and electioneering.

White, in particular, is a dirty word within South African rugby’s presidential corridors. He won the World Cup, but was dismissed by those who felt he failed to honour the president and his men.

White then excelled in Australia with the Brumbies and in one season at the Sharks won the South African conference and guided the team to a semi-final. Yet he wasn’t even a consideration for Coach of the Year. He wasn’t liked so his results didn’t matter. ( Unfortunately half bakes on this forum never had the nous to appreciate White!)

Naka Drotské, as one example, was a popular guy for nine years, so it never mattered that the Cheetahs propped up the stable (Naka was agood coach but his palying stocks were mercilessly raided year after year by the parasitic Sharks and Bulle in particular). Similarly the Lions, and Frans Ludeke was excused sustained failure at the Bulls over the last three years because he knew his place to be secondary to those who govern from the memory of South Africa’s days of sporting isolation.

Allistair Coetzee, at the Stormers, regressed with each year in charge in terms of the potency of the Stormers. The Stormers imploded, choked and won nothing but he has been lauded as if a five-time champion.

There will always be hope in our game but it’s the honesty that has been missing for the last 20 years. We’ve won the Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship and three Super Rugby titles and at a national level the Boks have beaten the All Blacks 14 times in 51 matches. But the only coaching heads that have rolled without hesitation have been those who have been successful.

There should be no rejoicing that four of the five Super Rugby coaches are gone as of the end of this month. There should be embarrassment that so many of them were allowed to stumble along without accountability to results for so long.

We’re a nation of supporters that passionately defend the mediocre but can’t acknowledge excellence. And until that changes, there will be no change in Super Rugby results.

Yes K eo but this only just one problem.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jun 2015, 11:17
#2
16 Jun 2015, 11:17#2
 Keo at it again.   He was the agent of Mallett in undermining Du Plessis and when Mallett was appointed he duly got a fat job at SARU.    At least he is honest in his support of Mallett.
When it came to White - the recent article by keo about the Sharks job was the biggest load of hogwash written for years.   Let's be plain - White has positives and negatives in his make-up.   One of the worst characteristics is his abrasive and ruthless ambition.  Any coaching job is a stepping stone.   His other characteristic is his tendency to have favourites in the team - with a detrimental impact on team spirit.  
Both Mallett and White (in the case of both the Brumbies and the Sharks) ultimately failed because of different reasons.     
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Jun 2015, 11:36
#3
16 Jun 2015, 11:36#3
 Ou maaaikie facts are facts: Master Jake won the under 20 world champs, the world cup, got the faltering brumbies to the finals and got the sharks a SA conference win and to the semis.Just watch what happens to Jake and Montpellier ou maaaikie.  Are you willing to bet they will not improve under Jake. Of course not.
Jake, Mallet, Venter and Rassie are our top coaches with whoever is doing the brain work at the Lions entering that league as its been an outstanding effort.
Keo is dead right in saying mediocrity has been accpeted. In Allistair Coetzee's case he did ZIP to earn his appointment in the first place and made major blunders thereafter.
The time for amateurish behaviour is long since past. Our backs are against the wall as our player base is being decimated and we have a consistent and planned get the Jarpy agenda against us as well as a quota system at play underming the quality of the squads we can select. We cannot in these circumstances afford weak coaches as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!All these issues need to be addressed. Meanwhile the hapless kiwis impostors pose as world number by default!!!!If it were in my power I would firstly get in top RUGBY people to run our game. Out with Hoskins and the other politcal appointments. 


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
16 Jun 2015, 15:26
#4
16 Jun 2015, 15:26#4
Most of our coaches are not up to SuperXV standard in backline attacking play. If the coach does not understand backline play- how can they coach the backline
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
16 Jun 2015, 21:00
#5
16 Jun 2015, 21:00#5

 "Most of our coaches are not up to SuperXV standard in backline attacking play. If the coach does not understand backline play- how can they coach the backline."


Is this not the problem with Heyneke Meyer? A good, some will say outstanding, forwards coach, but is out of touch with backline play, but he refuses to surround him with expert backline coaches. Who are the current backline coach(es) for the Boks and what are their claim to fame?

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
17 Jun 2015, 08:44
#6
17 Jun 2015, 08:44#6
We need a South African head coach and a NZ or Aus backline coach! That way we can have the best of both worlds. White/Jones for example. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2015, 10:43
#7
17 Jun 2015, 10:43#7
 The problem is that in SA most coaches are forward experts and they get forward specialists to help them further in that component of the game.   The backline coaches are hangers-on who have no idea about backline coaching.  What makes matters worse is that the attack coaches of most teams are also ex-forwards.   
Even if backline coaches try to do something, whatever they try is overruled by the attack coaches and the Head Coaches.   For the latter the ostrich head in the hole situation about backline play - like some members of this site as well - is the norm.   
The answer is obvious - either they must get head coaches with a comprehensive approach - willing to use proper backline coaching specialists to maximum benefit - or continue with their present seriously defective approach to coaching.   They must also rid themselves of the concept of using forwards as attack coaches. 
I tend to agree with Bluebok as to his suggestion about the appointment of coaches.    
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
17 Jun 2015, 12:07
#8
17 Jun 2015, 12:07#8

 It's bitterly disappointing that there appears to be no hope on the horizon, 20 years since re-admission and still there's not a foggy about backline play. Ackers at the Lions I feel is heading in the right direction and has done exceptionally well but we need others to follow.


Meyer lost the plot when he chose an average ex quota Bulls/ Bok center as the national coach. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
17 Jun 2015, 14:39
#9
17 Jun 2015, 14:39#9
 Instead of setting up a guaranteed 2 spots in the new rugby whatever its called now you should be using some of that enormous talent in SA.Bet ya the Kiwi teams playing against each other and the Aussies will harden up way more than the 2 easybeat conferences ,and heres me thinking you guys didnt like that "affirmative action " business .Careful what you wish for eh ?
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
17 Jun 2015, 14:54
#10
17 Jun 2015, 14:54#10
 Funny isnt it Wardad - The ANC are blamed for everything gone bad in SA yet the majority are silent when a SA side is guarranteed a spot in the Top 6 with or without merit but currently without merit.

Isnt that what most posters here are harping on about - that Boks players should be chosen on merit rather than race quota or political affiliation . Yet.......here we are.

Hakwa enlightening Beanhead and the masses again.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Jun 2015, 18:01
#11
17 Jun 2015, 18:01#11
 Hakwa, who else can be blamed for political intereferenc other than the ANC? We are not competing on a level playing field. That being said, we will strugle even without it, as our general admin of the game is in shambles regardless. Most Saffas will be glad if the ridiculous conference system is put in the rubbish.  Every team plays every other once. One year home, the next away. 12 teams max. The competition is way too long in any event. It has become boring.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Jun 2015, 18:15
#12
17 Jun 2015, 18:15#12
 PS, Keo is an absolute opportunist with no integrity.  I have no interest in his ramblings. Fck him!
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
17 Jun 2015, 23:16
#13
17 Jun 2015, 23:16#13
 DB I am glad to hear you SA folks dont like this rubbish conference system either .Next year will be disasterous.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jun 2015, 08:25
#14
18 Jun 2015, 08:25#14
 Wardad, I'm sure only the suits like it. The whole thing is lobsided. I can live with the 5 teams each for SA, NZ and Aus, but the double home conference games are just too much. If they can remove that and spread the beyes over 2 weaks in the middle of the competition, only one beye per team per season, we already shortened the competition by 5 weeks. The 6 team playoffs are also stupid, so either return to 2 semis and the final, or increase the teams to at least 20 with 2 pools and the top 4 of each pool playing the top 4 of the other in the semies. I won't like it, but atleast it would be better than the current bull.
My ideal system would however be someting like this:
  1. 3 conferences with 8 teams per conference. 
  2. The top 5 teams in the conference play each other once during the first month. 
  3. Only the top 3 of each conference goes through to the Super 9, only carrying over log points earned against other S9 qualifiers. 
  4. Now they only play teams from the other conferences. 
  5. The top 4 goes to the playoffs. 

Running concurrently with this competition, you have  Maverick Super Rugga. 
  1. The 2 teams that did not qualify for the S9 as well as the other 3 teams in the conference, those outside the S15, play a similar structured competition.
  2.  This will give aspiring teams a taste of super rugby and the chance to play abroad.
  3.  The top 2 in each conference automatically qualifies for the next years SR home conference, with a chance to make the Top9. 
  4. The bottom teams of each conference must play relegation matches against a challenging team that wants to crack into SR. This teams will typically be from countries outside Sanzar (Japan, Argie, Islands, US?)
  5. This will give us more rugby, but things will stay interesting and lower teams will still have something to play for. This year, the Blues, Cheetahs, Rebels and Force's seasons were over after 5 weeks, but they had to tag along for the ride...another 13 weeks of empty stadiums and playing with little motivation. Torture for the fans and players. The fools at SANZAR should all be quartered. See Greg is off to Argie. I hope he does not fck up their rugby.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Jun 2015, 08:26
#15
18 Jun 2015, 08:26#15
Oops!
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
18 Jun 2015, 23:55
#16
18 Jun 2015, 23:55#16
 DB  that would be an improvement over the shemozzle thats been foisted upon us .If a NZ team got in because of this nonsense I would be just as cheesed off and embarrassed to boot .Dont think I will bother watching next year ,and I know that many other fans from all 3 countries feel the same .Its an absolute clusterfark .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Jun 2015, 14:48
#17
19 Jun 2015, 14:48#17

Only one coach has raised standards in SA senior rugby in the 21 st century.....and he has been treated like garbage. In this instance Keo has it right.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
19 Jun 2015, 16:03
#18
19 Jun 2015, 16:03#18
Agree 100% DB and Ward! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Jun 2015, 16:52
#19
19 Jun 2015, 16:52#19
 Mozart
There are two angles to the Jake White saga and the fact is that Jake invites likes and dislikes in even measure.    He clearly is not an easy person to get along with - that is partly the reason for his problems with SARU and in the Sharks camp.    
I do not dispute the coaching angle - more so the HR area and the fact that White made a mess of that angle when coaching the Sharks accounted for the fact that they asked him to resign.   There were serious problems within the team set-up and that stemmed from his preferential treatment of some players, while the rest of the players suffered badly.   
In essence a coach should engender and enhance team spirit and that not happen at the Sharks during his tenure.       
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
19 Jun 2015, 22:08
#20
19 Jun 2015, 22:08#20

Keo forgot to mention Kitch Kristie who had a 100% test record and won a World Cup, but got sacked while he was still in hospital by the politicos.

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Jun 2015, 23:28
#21
19 Jun 2015, 23:28#21
 Blik, I was always uder the impression that he refused to continue as couch due to his health and that he only agreed to coach the team for that short stint right from the start.Moz, I never slagged Jake as a coach, and still rate him, but he wasn't that good and still isn't.  He is a damn good analyst though and he can identify problems and come up with ideas to fix them, not by himself, but he also  has the knack to get himself surrounded by the right staff to get things done. Excellent manager...but he also has his weak points. Loyalty,  yes, plenty. JW is loyal to JW first and foremost. Blind spots and pigheadedness galore, with the ego and God complex to boot. Good quick fixér, but not much in the perseverance department. Thanks for the WC of 2007, well done Jake. He might have been a better coach than Divvy, but he had his fair share of luck as well.  IMO the 2011 team was better, but a combination of bad luck and naive stupidy cost them. Peter might have been a joke in interviews etc, but that team was extremely well coached and it surely wasn't the seniour players doing the coaching. Yes he inherited a excellent team,... but so did Meyer and he isn't actually that much better. From  Kitches time up till now, Carel and Gert were the only coaches to build a team from scrach and improve them tino the best team in the world within a few weeks. Jake came close in 2004, but he only had to tweak it a bit here and there to get things rolling...but thats MY tainted view,  through my blue and white shaded glasses. I always liked Ian Mac too. What a great rugga man? Although Nick seems to know hiss stuff and is also a WP man, he just never convinced me that he is THAT good. A good coach from a very bad lot, that was made looking better by the players he had at his disposal.
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
20 Jun 2015, 00:11
#22
20 Jun 2015, 00:11#22

Draad, I once read who did sack Cristie, but this will confirm that he did not just resigned due to poor health. No, all knew the man has reached the end of his life, but someone still had that cruelty left in him to tell Kitch that his services are no longer needed.


 http://mg.co.za/article/1999-04-23-kitch-christie-dies


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