Last chance for the boks to win a WC

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Loose Pass

08th Sep 2015, 08:34

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Alex Webber: Scorer of rugby's first six-point try

This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with the six-appeal of a new scoring system, Webb Ellis' credentials and a near-miss in Paris.

Scoring system has six-appeal

Remember the name – Alex Webber. In years to come it may earn you respect in some obscure pub quiz.

The Pontypridd wing made history during his side's victory over Llanelli at the weekend with the first ever six-point try.

It was not the most spectacular of scores with the Wales Sevens international dancing through a hole as wide as the Severn Bridge to dot down but in terms of significance it could be huge for the sport as a whole.

The Welsh Premiership is trialling a revised scoring system - with the support of World Rugby - that sees the value of a try increased by one point and the reward for penalties and drop goals reduced to two points.

The aim is to encourage attacking and crowd-pleasing rugby and the experiment already appears to be paying dividends with Pontypridd out-scoring their rivals nine-tries-to-four in a 68-32 victory.

But more eye-catching is the fact that the game did not include one penalty kick at goal.

On this evidence, it would appear a no-brainer for the sport to roll this new scoring system out across the board.

There will of course be concern from traditionalists who decry any Law change but this makes perfect sense for a sport desperate to remain entertaining and engaging to fans, players and coaches alike.

The way the game is scored has evolved over the years and this is just a continuation of a trend that has seen tries become more valuable and kicks less so.

Once upon a time, tries were worth nothing and were rewarded with just the chance to 'try' for the posts - with games ultimately decided by conversions and drop goals.

But thankfully the importance of tries has steadily – and for some, painfully slowly – increased in the century or so since with the most recent revamp in 1991 increasing their value to five points from four.

...

 when they begin with this kind of testing it means that in 2-3 years the new system will be globally implemented.

This will be a big change in the game,...... favouring the attacking game,....... good news
but may be not so good for the boks fans,..... if they don't begin immediately to contract kiwi coaches for their franchises and national team, this year's WC will very probably be their last chance to win it,........ and with the current coaching team and squad it seems  an imposible task

 

 This is as old as the moon - it has been practised for years in SA in the Varsity Cup.   The result is that penalties are rarely kicked at goal - mostly corner kicks are tried.  A converted try counts 8 points - so it is no use to try and kick penalties.   They are the old-fashioned  coaches  in SA rugby - like Meyer and Ludeke - will get the boot because they will be unable to adjust.   
From what we have seen of the Bulls and Lions in CC this year - the influence is slowly spreading up in the structures in SA rugby from the Varsity Cup level and we will be better off with the revised structure in the long run.     

 It's a bullsh!t system that has ruined the Varsity Cup in any case. While it worked reasonably well in the first year, the teams adapted by conceding many more penalties, because they know the opposition won't get much reward from a penalty.

Because of the penalty kicks to the corners, we also see much less creative running and much more one-dimensional lineout mauls, making it much more boring.

Or we could say it would be a GREAT system, as it would mean Matfield will be able to play a few more years, just as a lineout specialist!

The actual solution is in fact counter-intuitive. Make penalties count more. Teams will be less likely to infringe, specifically in their own half and that will open up the play more, specifically where the following infringements are involved. (Off-side, Entering rucks from the side, not releasing the tackled player, deliberate knocks, holding support runners back, early tackles and any other deliberate infringement)

I have no problem with a points for a drop-goal being reduced, because it would in that case encourage more running.

 Oops - the donkey brain of Trooth Fairy coming to the fore again.   What she said runs counter to the thinking in rugby circles on the issue.   BS in buckets - but what else can be expected from the dimwit?

 Hmmm. Donkey brain, nogal. Looks like Truth should actually thank ou Tokkie for the compliment..... 
Donkeys are very strong and intelligent

• A donkey is stronger than a horse of the same size.
• Donkeys have an incredible memory - they can recognise areas and other donkeys they were with up to 25 years ago.
• A donkey will not do something it considers to be unsafe.

Donkey Characteristics

• Donkeys are not easily startled (unlike horses) and have a keen sense of curiosity.
• Donkeys have a reputation for stubbornness but this is due to their highly developed sense of self preservation. It is difficult to force or frighten a donkey into doing something it sees as contrary to its own best interest or safety.
• Donkeys are more independent in their thinking than horses and will reason, then make decisions based on their safety.
• Training a donkey relies upon showing him or her, by words and action, that they can trust you to protect them from harm. They learn what it is we want them to do if we take time to show them.

Donkeys are herd animals

• Donkeys don't like being kept on their own although a single donkey will live quite happily with goats.
• A herd will choose the strongest donkey to be their leader, even if domesticated. In the wild the lead donkey would stay to ward off an attack by a wolf or other predators in order to allow the rest of the herd to escape to safety.
• Donkeys in a herd will groom each other in the same way as monkeys and chimps do.

More about donkeys:
Nora Matthews, a veterinarian in the College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences at Texas A&M University, has spent the last 15 years studying donkeys, and she says they are a separate species from horses. In particular, Matthews has looked at how donkeys react to drugs and how they handle anesthesia, which appears to differ from horses

As for their intelligence, Matthews says the term “horse sense” should have been applied to donkeys. “Many people think—and I am one of them—that donkeys are smarter than horses,” she explains. “In fact, they are very intelligent creatures who don’t scare as easily as horses. When threatened, they tend to freeze, which is probably how they got the reputation of being stubborn.”

Another useful trait of donkeys: they can guard a herd of sheep against predators such as coyotes and wolves. “Donkeys are frequently used in Western states and other countries as guard animals because they will run off coyotes,” Matthews says. “But dogs and donkeys don’t get along at all. They will kick and bite at dogs and coyotes in a very effective manner.”

Additionally, donkeys are very affectionate, easily trainable and respond extremely well to voice commands, Matthews says. Because of their gentle nature, they are frequently used for riding for disabled persons, and they are usually well-behaved when around children, she adds.

Looks like Truth should actually thank ou Tokkie for the compliment..... 

 Got a soft spot for donkeys myself. Back on topic,  there are much more serious issues that needs fixing tan the scoring system. 

This is a really silly headline.   
The Springbok backline score more tries than most international teams in recent years. If this claim was true- it would apply to lots of rugby teams that are more forward orientated like England, France etc- not just South Africa
We may be short of depth at the SuperXV level in the backline, but when we put together a national team we still have one of the better backlines in world rugby. 
Although we could do with some New Zealand backline coaches- as New Zealand are certainly leading the way in backline play- especially some SuperXV backline coaches. 
The reality is that New Zealand score most of their tries towards the end of the match as space opens up through their better passing skills and supporting runners

@Ceradyne I assure you that a person of average intelligence is smarter than a smart donkey. 
So it is hardly a compliment, unless the donkey is smarter than the individual. 

 SB
I can assure you donkeys are smarter than two or three members of this site - they know more about rugby than some individuals like Mozart, Ceradunce and the Trooth Fairy know.

 

Great idea the less goal kicking the better. Whenever I record a game, I always fast forward through the penalty kicks and conversions, so that I can get on with the action.
Kicking is an individual skill in a team sport - its boring

 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 19068RE: Last chance for the boks to win a WC
September 08, 2015, 18:28:24

 SB

I can assure you donkeys are smarter than two or three members of this site - they know more about rugby than some individuals like Mozart, Ceradunce and the Trooth Fairy know. But, but, but, you have said that Truth has a donkey brain.................

 The more these fools try to make rugby entertaining....the more they end up with boring phase play. You need set pieces, you need penalties.....you need structure. Otherwise it descends into pablum.
Throw out all the changes made since 1965 and you will see the running opportunities blossom. Back to the good old days where the whole country was wondering if Jannie Englebrecht was fast enough to mark Dewi Bebb the Welsh sprinting champion.

Watching footage of the old days is like watching a bunch of 12 year olds play the game......the standard was piss poor

So you are saying the rugby you played was piss poor.  

 Mozart has a point - illegal play should be penalized.  But there is another problem - a serious one at that.  Rugby is about scoring tries and winning matches - not about goal kicks as a means of winning games.   If that be the case - then why bother with having backlines in rugby - you can play the game with 8 forwards and two backline players.
The latter was the method of the coaches in SA - and ultimately it is the reason for the poor showing of the Springboks in recent times.  The Springboks lost their backline playing abilities and their forwards were slowly deteriorating by selection of players way past their sell-by dates.   So no more competitiveness in forward play and with poor backline contribution.
It is time we catch up with rugby development in the real world and start playing winning rugby by being competitive backlines as well.   Mozart is correct - in previous eras with players like Engelbrecht, Gerber and Carel du Plessis we did have backline players of consequence - but we got used to duds like Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn and others - who killed backline play.  
Just one thing - the rugby being played by teams on lower levels in SA is vastly different from the rugby played by some Super 15 teams and the Springboks - so what Mozart says about the rugby Dave was involved in is not correct.  
             

 "- but we got used to duds like Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn and others - who killed backline play.  "

2012 - 2014 up to Morne's last game
Win ratio - 79%
Tries per game - 3.333

After Morne
Win ratio - 45.45%
Tries per game - 2.272

 Morne and scoring of tries by the backline is two opposite poles - they score tries if they cut him out - because he is clueless about backline play.   But he is not the only detriment - what about a player like Matfield and some of the other over the hill players.   They are responsible for the recent slump - we have lost massively when we sacrificed our forward play as a result of their inclusion in the team.      

 Ou Tokkie does not hate Morne Steyn................