Lets have some gray....

Guys
I come on here everyday and i find that most of the Rucker locals have polarised thoughts...
Moz loves Steyn
Clever hate steyn
...and so it goes on.

Which is all cool, but...

I'm trying to work out why there can never be any middle ground.

For instance, if Willem Alberts has a storming game, Clevermike will never admit to it. He will either ignore the fact totally or he will elude to anything that Alberts contributed to in the game and still say "he is fat and lazy and didn't do anything special".

Likewise the fact that Moz will wax lyrical about a "visionary pass" made by Frans Steyn... and will go on about his game at flyhalf.. when in fact he was up to $h!t for 70 minutes of the game. (I am a massive Fransie fan by the way.... but at 12, not at flyhalf)

Come on guys.
It is possible for one of your least favourite players to have a great game as much as it is possible for your all time greats to have an absolute shocker.

Lets be man enough to give credit where due as well as pipe down when proven wrong.

Over and out.

#proteaburned

 Chippo
My friend you have me wrong - if Alberts has a storming game I will be overcome with surprise and will quote his stats and say he was good.   However, since Alberts never really had a storming game since 2012 I would rather be inclined to believe that such a miracle would never happen.  
Let me be more explicit - when Steyn came back from France in 2012 there could not ahve been a stronger Steyn supporter on this site.   After three shockingly poor games for the Springboks - I started to have serious doubts about his performances.   The ankle injury in 2012 prevented him from, playing any more games in 2012.   
Before Super 15 started in 2013 - I specially traveled to Pietermaritzburg to go and watch a warming up match.   Steyn seemed to have recovered well from his injury and I wrote as such on this site.  The first game of that season against the Cheetahs was OK - the second game against the Hurricanes was a shocker, the next game against the Kings was worse and the fourth game against the Brumbies was diabolical.   That was the end of my admiration for Steyn.   However, it was not only me who lost faith in Steyn - Plumtree dropped him from the team and said that Steyn is not a center at all.    He played two further games at center later that season because of the Jordaan injury - got injured and never played any further matches in 2013.
Come along 2014 and Steyn was fat and obviously unfit.   He was played at 12 and then moved to 10 when Lambie was injured.   His performances in either position was based entirely on his goal kicking - the rest of his performances varied between marginally average or poor.  His stats was a horror story, showing zero attacking ability and shocking defense.   For instance he managed to lose ball possession 32 times in 2014 and gave away 11 penalties.   Steyn was fat, slow and obviously unfit  -  FACT.
There is definitely space for him in the Springbok team - but for that he will have to improve his performance by ten times - something like 1000%.   That may be theoretically possible - but thus far this year there was not a single sign of improvement.
I hare nobody - but I do have an aversion to a player being punted for Springbok selection based on reputation and without regard to performance.  For me if performance does not match reputation of a player it is unacceptable.                         

Rather than all the rubbish written above by Moronic let me give you an example of what you are asking for Chippo, posted yesterday:

 

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11106 RE: The Incredible "Schulk"
March 29, 2015, 06:09:37 Nice post Jerome....I agree with most of your points. I'm also not sure Schalk is a starter but a great finishing option for the Boks. And while I am not usually a Kolisi fan, he certainly made some great busts today.

 

 I always call things the way I see them happening on the field. The fact is Frans was having a poor game with the boot yesterday.....not disputed. His place kicking was off and that seemed to impact his tactical kicking. But until Frans made that pass where he had the vision to see the opportunity out wide, the Sharks were losing the game.

 

Apart from the kicking he had a fine game gaining 50 metres and monstering some loosies on defence. The fact that he can stop these  guys dead is taken for granted....but it's part of what he adds.

 

I was the first on this Board to push for Pollard and he would be my 10....but Frans is our next best option....and the obvious 12 in the absence of Jean.

 

Check out how many games the Sharks have won over the last year with Frans starting at 10. A much higher percentage than they have won with Lambie.

 Mozart
What a farce of rugby tripe you have concocted again and again.  Steyn the second option at flyhalf and in the absence of De Villiers the first option at inside center.   This despite the fact that a rugby expert like Plumtree said that Steyn is not a center.   Experts also agree he is not a flyhalf either.
We had the scenario of Steyn at 12 in 2012 - the worst performance of an inside center imaginable.   In 2013 he was dropped from the starting line-up of the Sharks because of total inadequacy.   I n 2014 - he was the worst attacking no 12 center in SA as well as the second worse defender -  all proven by stats as well.   All that and Mozart wants him in the Springbok team.  Why should that be the case?   

 

 I guess there are many shades of gra y

Another Mozart Myth
 "Apart from the kicking he had a fine game gaining 50 metres and monstering some loosies on defence. The fact that he can stop these  guys dead is taken for granted....but it's part of what he adds."
Steyn game gained a total of 49 meters carrying the ball 8 times - note the added one meter to get to 50 - it sounds much better saying 50 than 49.   He made no line breaks  - broke no tackles and average a meter gain of  just about 6 meters does not represent having a fine game.   Then the other illusionary description about monstering.   Steyn made nine tackles - missing 2.  Which forwards did he monstered?   Is a missed tackle ratio of  18,2% acceptable?   The answer is NO the missed tackle ratio is not and the flowery writing is worthless.  
However, those are semantics and the fact is that Steyn had a poor game - no ifs and buts - and his negative contributions were so over-whelming that the Force was in the lead at halftime.        

"I was the first on this Board to push for Pollard and he would be my 10."

I wonder if this deceitful old windbag actually believes his own lies?

Moffie had never even heard of Handre Pollard when the rest of us were talking about him and I put up a post last year clearly showing that Pollard did not crack any of Moffie's shortlists for flyhalf up until as as late as June 2014.

No big surprise that this pompous old windbag is making such outrageous claims, he's the same manipulative liar who ridiculed the Black Caps before the recent Cricket World Cup and then suddenly tried to pretend he was their biggest supporter when they beat the Proteas and made the final.

LMAO!

 Balls - you were years behind Dave and myself - who said already in 2012 he was a future Springbok.  He did not perform as expected in 2013 - but was better in 2014.   So you are claiming something you never knew about - and only because you disliked Lambie and Goosen so much.   After the June tests last year - you stuck with Morne Steyn through thick and thin and your support of Pollard was basically to be on the bench.  After the Argentina tests you were punting Morne Steyn again. 
Even when Morne flopped so badly in the Aussie test you still tried to find excuses for him.
So who were you really punting last year for the first six months as flyhalfs -  Fat Fransie Steyn (first choice) and  Morne Steyn - punting Pollard only when Lambie or Goosen was mentioned.       

Check out some of the links I put up on this thread to see Moffie jumping from one flyhalf bandwagon to the next.

No wonder the foppish old fool did such a deep dive on that thread. LMAO!

Edit: Those links don't work since the site address changes.

Here is Moffie in December 2013 jumping off the Pat Lambie bandwagon and onto the Johan Goosen bandwagon (with Willie le Roux as his only other alternative for flyhalf!)

Here is Moffie jumping off the Johan Goosen bandwagon and onto the Fat Fransie bandwagon. (In May 2014 . . . bearing in mind the deceitful old liar is claiming he spotted Pollard as a talent early in the S15 of that year).

Here is the very first mention of Pollard that I can find from Moffie. It's 28 May 2014 (about a year after everyone else started raving about Pollard) and the conceited old codgers has this to say: "We have the youngsters Pollard and Swiel. To me Pollard has a better head at this stage and looks more rugged. But time will tell....after RWC15. Perhaps Pollard has a bench shot....but it's a long one."

Exposed as an opportunistic liar, the bloated old windbag slunk away from that thread but here he is all these months later hoping everyone's forgotten and trying to re-invent himself as the person who discovered Handre Pollard.

LMAO!

Let me help you Lush.

 Pollard the flyhalf of the futureMay 14, 2014, 18:48:42

Provided he avoids serious injury and isn't rushed into pressure situations too soon, Pollard is a great prospect. He has the physique and head for serious rugby and is quite an athlete. 

 

All the hype about Lambie, Goosen and Jantjies seems so silly in comparison.

 

No I wouldn't start him this year or possibly even at the RWC.....but he would be on the bench behind one of the Steyns, preferably Fransie"

Game, set and match!!!!!!!! But I must say its gratifying that you are now posting links to my material.....bwaaaaaaahahahaha.

 What en endorsement by you - maybe from 2016 - so you discovered him - but he must wait for the two flops you support to fail again and again before he could be considered.  
What a discovery!!!!   

 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 15885RE: Lets have some gray....
March 30, 2015, 14:31:34 Balls - you were years behind Dave and myself - who said already in 2012 he was a future Springbok.  He did not perform as expected in 2013 - but was better in 2014. 
Bullsh!t. You called Pollard a "Morne Steyn Clone" and punted Swiel (remember him?) ahead of Pollard. Your mate Safes.ex agreed with you. 

 Dofdoos no 2
You forgot that Pollard did not really shine in 2013 - for you saw NO MATCHES in which he played.   I saw some and they were below expectations.
I obviously did not have enough sympathy with Pollard - he signed a contract with the Blue Bulls and we all know that backline play is distorted and destroyed by that franchise - so they tried to ruin him as they normally do - by playing him at 12 in both the Varsity Cup and the Vodacom Cup.  
Be it as it may he survived the Bulls destructive onslaught and came out tops in the 2014 JWC - also in the few games he came off the bench for the Bulls Super 15.   It is to his credit that he actually did not turn into a Morne Steyn clone - the pressure must have been massive on the part of the Bulls establishment idiots.        

 Dave was the first person to back Pollard, calling Pollard a future Bok after the Baby Boks beat the Baby Blacks in the 2012 JWC final.

 clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 15887RE: Lets have some gray....
March 30, 2015, 17:30:28 Dofdoos no 2
You forgot that Pollard did not really shine in 2013 - for you saw NO MATCHES in which he played.   I saw some and they were below expectations.
Who said that I saw no games that he played in? I get a feeling that this is one of those remarks that will see you sneaking away from this thread with your tail between your legs................ again.
You said that early in 2014. I can remember we having this exact same argument and you were quoted saying that before last year's JRWC. The next moment Pollard was the talk of the town during the JRWC and you immediately jumped on the Pollard band wagon claiming that you spotted him many moons before, forgetting that you said that he was useless and that you rated Swiel ahead of him. 

Dave says every youngster is a future Bok Shezza. He had Pollard behind Goosen in the pecking order....as did you.
Now Moronic you foul lying toad...you absolutely called Pollard a Morne clone, which coming from you, was totally writing him off. Just another of your endless blunders.  

 The liar at his worst - he "discovered"  Pollard - but says he may be considered after the WC  in 2015 - ie from 2016.   I wrote something in 2013 - during his season playing at 12 for the Bulls that stated the truth and now I am suddenly a liar.  I never said I did not write it and stated the circumstances clearly - also that in 2013 the Bulls used him out of position at 12 and tried to knock him into a center.
This liar is so clueless about rugby - he can only run back to an assessment of 2013 when Pollard played at 12 and rarely as a flyhalf - it even happened in the WC in 2013 - to try and find a way out so as to cover up his misrepresentations in 2014.
However all that to hide away from the fact that his "discovery" of Pollard was a farce and a total misrepresentation.         
      

Just one problem with that logic. If you were criticizing him as a " Morne clone" that was hardly as  a   12 was it? 

A feeble lie trying to weasel out of your attack. It really is so funny, you rate young players above older players. You rate Swiel and Goosen. But you totally miss the one young kid who is a real prospect. Priceless.

 When did I totally miss the one kid that was a prospect?   Because I am an honest assessor of performances - and criticize players when criticism is due - I suddenly am a fool in your book.   
Lets face facts - you lie about and whitewash BS performances of players - as was evident whenever your favourites foul up.  You would never criticize them.
I expressed some criticism  of Pollard in 2013 - when he did play at flyhalf (the minority of the time) he Morne-style kicked away most of the usable balls and when he did play at 12 - he tried to copy the piss-poor Francois Steyn in crashballing most of the time.  For me that was a kid going completely the wrong way  with his talent being coached out of him Bull-style.  You believe that Morne and Francois Steyn are ideal players - so you would never understand why they are indeed the worst backline players imaginable.   Remember you are the fool that stated only this week that 90% of the play of flyhalfs comprises of kicking - that beats the most stupid comment on rugby ever made by the most stupid of idiots on this site by a mile.   
Fact is that he did overcome that challenge and did not succumb to the Bulls coaching rubbish - and 2014 showed a revival in his original  form and promise.  You would never find any criticism of Pollard in what I wrote in 2014 - but there was  equally no stopping in my criticism of the atrociously poor Morne and Francois Steyn last year.  I was never the supreme village idiot that advocated that one of the latter two play at 10 in the 2015 WC and made some faint comment about Pollard maybe playing for the Springboks as from 2016.   The latter was not based on performance assessment - it was based on a hatred mania on your part of Lambie and Goosen.
The supreme idiot is really funny.  Despite BS performances by Francois Steyn in 2013 and 2014 playing at both Center or flyhalf - and atrocious performances thus far in Super 15 - he is punting Francois Steyn as second choice flyhalf or first choice no 12.  
My advice - try and read up something about the game of rugby of which you know zip.   Even though it is hard to imagine - try and get some honesty and objectivity into your postings.