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FORUM / RUGBY /  Letsal - the happiness to live in a dreamworld where reality has no unpleasant effects

Letsal - the happiness to live in a dreamworld where reality has no unpleasant effects

Started by clevermike17 REPLIES479 VIEWS· 25 May 2015, 11:18
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CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 11:18
#1
25 May 2015, 11:18#1

I have to read comments like the following and then have to make up my mind if the minds whether he is seriously deluded or just plain prejudiced and useless in player assessment:-


 "With Frans (a better attacker than DA) on his inside you have a rock solid defensive line"


Him and his equally deluded partner in idiocy Mozart keep on insisting that Steyn is the no 1 pick at 12 for the Springbok team, so lets see how the facts contrasted in various data-bases  with the daydream and how facts can be deluded by those two idiots:-


TEST  RUGBY


This site has as a basis the evaluation of each activity on the field of play and includes both defensive play and attacking play - with the added advantage for Steyn that kicking at goal is also given point allocations:-


Damian de Allende


Tries                            =     3 

Try Assists                   =      2

Line Breaks                  =    10

Effective ball carries     =     79

Average per game       =      6

Average Achievement  =     225 points 


Francois Steyn


Tries                            =     2 

Try Assists                   =     1

Line Breaks                  =     2

Effective ball carries     =      2

Average per game       =      Less than 1

Average achievement   =     205 Points ( boosted by kicks at goal)


NEW ZEALAND HERALD DATA BASE


Here we have a number of Norms used:-


 

                                              

                                   De Allende    Venter   Vorster   

Value rating of players        12               36           84  

                                  Serfontein    Steyn

                                      135              205

                                 De Allende     Venter    Vorster

Performance Points            410             316         236             

                                  Serfontein    Steyn

                                        136           118


                                 De Allende     Venter    Vorster

Average per game             31,54         24,31       18,15       

                                   Serfontein    Steyn

                                        20,25       16,56


Again the points of Steyn is boosted by his goalkicking.


FOXSPORT DATA BASE


Here we have a number of Norms used:-

                                             

                                   De Allende    Venter   Vorster   

Value rating of players        3               19            36  

                                  Serfontein    Steyn

                                      116              234

                                 De Allende     Venter    Vorster

Performance Points            484            407           371             

                                  Serfontein    Steyn

                                        261            145


                                 De Allende     Venter    Vorster

Average per game             37,2            31,31       28,50       

                                   Serfontein    Steyn

                                        31,38          20,71 


ESPNSCRUM DATABASE


This info has been evaluated elsewhere and is not repeated here.


COMMENTS


1.    All data bases indicate a communality of info - namely that Steyn is a worst performer than any of the centers mentioned in this thread.   


2.    Because the players did not have a similar number of games the average given as to performances are the real norm for evaluation and in all cases the average points indicated that Steyn was the poorest of the players mentioned in this thread.


3.    Steyn has the added advantage that in his case data-points are allocated for kicking at goal.  This gives him a point advantage on the other mentioned players - but is not reflective of his abilities insofar as attacking and defending play is concerned.


4.   IF ANY OF THE DATABASES SHOWED THAT STEYN IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN THE OTHER CENTERS MENTIONED - THEN THERE COULD BE SOME CLAIM THAT HE HAS AN ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER CENTERS MENTIONED - BUT ALL DATABASES PUT HIM IN THE LAST POSITION COMPARED TO THE CENTERS LISTED ABOVE.


 5.  THE ALLEGATION THAT HE IS A BETTER CENTER THAN THE OTHER CENTERS LISTED IS WEIRD UNSUBSTANTIATED BS DREAMED UP BY LETSAL AND HIS VILLAGE IDIOT COMRADES. 

 


DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 12:16
#2
25 May 2015, 12:16#2
This is where we differ Michael, I watch the game and interpret it not via numbers, but by knowing what is happening on the field. I have said it so many times that you cannot understand a player if you cannot read a game, if you cannot read a game then those numbers are all but useless. 
I have already completed my time stamps for the Red vs Sharks and it is going to be quite revealing. 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
25 May 2015, 12:17
#3
25 May 2015, 12:17#3
 Mickey, you strike me as someone who never ever gets it wrong, just like your buddy Saffex......don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking you guys ....I've always admired perfection.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 13:04
#4
25 May 2015, 13:04#4
 Letsal
I studied games with an open mind and that is a fact.  I look at all players equally and keep notes on what happens on the field of play and then look at their stats as well to see whether what I have seen is corroborated statistically.  if there are discrepancies I look at the game a second time so as to recheck my facts.
Unlike me - you do not approach games with an open mind - you try and find fault with players you do not like and just ignore faults made by the players you like.  You then make sweeping and unsubstantiated statements which does not in any way tie up with facts and with real performances on the field of play.
You also do not understand the meaning and impact of stats in performance evaluation.  The players can have off days and those off days should not be seen in isolation.  However, stats are basically there to indicate over a tournament or series any tendencies in player performances.   It is extremely dangerous to ignore stats in a series or tournament since the same tendencies will prevail ultimately in future games as well.
Steyn's performances over the last three Super 15 series has been abysmal both from an attacking and defending perspective - and that is a fact of life.   
Your other wild statement on De Allende being atrocious last year is a joke.  If De Allende was atrocious - what can one  call the five times poorer performance of Steyn???????      
  
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 13:36
#5
25 May 2015, 13:36#5
"I studied games with an open mind and that is a fact."

Yes, like the Dunedin test of 2012? The Ellis Park test of 2013? Any games of last year? No, not a jot my split-tongue compadre. You falsify everything, and I do mean everything.

And yes, Damian was atrocious; very poor defensively. Statistically the worst defender of all 13s tried by Meyer, but if you take longevity in the position into account, he is in fact second from bottom. What of attack? Not very much. He was dropped, and the public supported the decision, that is how poor he was.

Damian has yet to outperform Steyn. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 13:58
#6
25 May 2015, 13:58#6
 Total Balls and I mean TOTAL BALLS.    
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 14:11
#7
25 May 2015, 14:11#7
You have a thing about balls don't you Michael? You ought to do something about that. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 14:14
#8
25 May 2015, 14:14#8
 Balls - BS - what is the difference between your contribution here - you utter village idiot.     
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 14:36
#9
25 May 2015, 14:36#9
Aww shucks, ya dang gone an hurt ma feelings. 


HA
hakwa
Pro4,146 posts
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
25 May 2015, 14:40
#10
25 May 2015, 14:40#10
 Look boys. You are both are good...at bringing data to support your personal views and vendettahs BUT nothing is better than a video replay
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 14:44
#11
25 May 2015, 14:44#11
I have that in the works Hakwa... I have that in indeed. 
RO
Rooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
25 May 2015, 15:27
#12
25 May 2015, 15:27#12
Too funny . . . the drooling half-wit who reckons that a flyhalf's only job is to decide who to pass to is actually talking about someone else's rugby cred!

LMAO!
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 16:57
#13
25 May 2015, 16:57#13
 This idiot will make a few selected slits from matches and show how wonderful Steyn is once in a Blue Moon and to discredit De Allende - and then claim he has won the argument.  He does not realise that player evaluation covers whole matches and all matches in tournaments - not one or two highlights packages.
The thing is the uninformed are in the main one-incident junk idiots who think that because something happened in one match in a year - it happens all the time and in all matches regularly.   Mozart is another one - a player has the highest successful rate in a year - but missed one tackle and three years later the idiot writes only about that tackle.   What both  of them do not realize is that one or two incidents is meaningless and that tendencies and trends in player performances must be determined and if there are clear trends - then those trends is most likely to continue in future games.
The question remains how do you discuss with an idiot who says Folau is a useless fullback and Kirchner is tops and who claims that Morne Steyn is the best flyhalf we had in the past 20 years and that he is the best attacking player at flyhalf and the best defender.  The idiot also blame Lambie for the final try at Perth - because he missed a tackle - but that the fact that Morne Steyn did not find touch with a penalty is a minor issue of no real consequence in the outcome of the game.
I can go on - but I assume you have read some of his delusionary comments on the site and know what we have to deal with here.        
 
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 May 2015, 17:16
#14
25 May 2015, 17:16#14
 Missing the touch line in that test was the final nail in Mornè's test coffin.
PS. Oly fools argue with idiots! If that is the truth, we have a ship of fools on this site!
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
25 May 2015, 17:19
#15
25 May 2015, 17:19#15
It's a shame conceding the winning try wasn't the final nail for Lambie, or his embarrassing EOYT. What a way to make your first effective tackle in six years. 
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 May 2015, 17:24
#16
25 May 2015, 17:24#16

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 17:26
#17
25 May 2015, 17:26#17
 Draad
You are correct - it is futile to discuss rugby issues with some on this site.  It is better just to ignore the  BS spread by some.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 May 2015, 02:13
#18
26 May 2015, 02:13#18
Mozart
I enjoy this one massively and that is because it exposes the tripe you regularly spouts.  Here we have for instance two cases that you refuse to discuss because of prejudice.
Here we have a rookie center with 8 full games and one game coming from the bench as against Steyn with 9 full games.   The rookie is rated by the -
*   New Zealand Herald as the 84th most valuable performing player in Super 15, as against the rating of Francois Steyn as the  205th such player; and

 *  Foxsport  as the 36th most valuable performing player in Super 15, as against the rating of Francois Steyn as the  234th such player.
We have a rating furthermore as the weakest player on average in performance on the following basis:-
New Zealand Herald
De Allende     =     31,54Venter          =     24,31Serfontein     =     20,25Vorster         =     18,15 Steyn           =     16,56
Foxsport    
De Allende     =     37,20Serfontein     =     31,38
Venter          =     31,31Vorster         =     28,35 
Steyn           =     20,71
Now you are the idiot that tells us that Steyn should be the Springbok 12 while -the NZ Herald -
*   rates De Allende the 36th  most valuable player in Super 15, as against Steyn at no 205 in that category;*   De Allende achieving 410 performance points as against 118 for Steyn; and*   De Allende with an average point achievement per match being 31, 54 as against the 16,56, and
Foxsport - 
*   rates De Allende the 3rd  most valuable player in Super 15, as against Steyn at no 234 in that category;*   De Allende achieving 484 performance points as against 145 for Steyn; and*   De Allende with an average point achievement per match being 37,20 as against the 20,71.
The differneee is in the average points gained per match.  In this case De Allende and Steyn are more or less on par as actual defenders - both has a rather serious defensive deficiency demanding attention of the coach; while
*   in respect of other aspects of the game De Allende is a multiple times better performer than Steyn.
Yet you see Steyn as the number 1 choice at 12 - how do you account for that in the face of the facts that Steyn is the worst of the centers mentioned above.  I am ready to see the joke coming out of this!!!!!!!      
— END OF THREAD —

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