CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2015, 10:24#2
Dave
Don't get over-excited - Woodc ock is way past his sell-by date. I rate Van der Merwe as 4th candidate for Springbok selection after Malherbe, Koch and Coenie Oosthuizen.
My comment on Serfontein is lower down in a thread.
I agree with you about Matfield - he was nowhere to be seen after minute 30.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 May 2015, 11:15#3
Oh what utter fucking rubbish....4th my arse.....I see you are as stupid as ever
19 May 2015, 11:24#4
Woodcok is still out injured so Saffex may be right
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2015, 12:07#5
Dave
Sorry - but one swallow does not mean it is summer yet. Van der Merwe was really questionable in scrumming in virtually all the previous games in Super 15 this year he played in - so why should he be regarded as being ahead of the three players I mentioned?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2015, 12:47#7
Blikkies
I would not argue too hard about your pecking order. However, I think BEE will be the deciding factor - that is why I put Beast and Nyakane very high up on loosehead.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2015, 14:42#11
Minute 47 to see the real Marcel....the one humiliated by the Beast, Kitshoff, Kebble and totally slaughtered by van Rooyen. The moment there is pressure he pops.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2015, 15:01#13
Ag ou Davie boy this is just another one of your stupid calls. Kinda like Werner Kruger. Come to think of it Werner and your other pin up Greyling went through the Bloos pack like a knife through butter. What does that tell you sunshine?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2015, 16:06#15
Their whole scrum went backwards Fat Man ....the commentators made the point that they kept their shape.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2015, 16:27#16
Dave
Let me put some perspective to this. The blues scrumming is one of the reasons why they have not really made the grade this year - they are definitely not a strong enough in scrumming and Woodc ock is the Jannie du Plessis of the side -way past his best and his sell-by date.
To say that Marcel van der Merwe got the better of him means nothing much in the broader context of things. I think that Van der Merwe has had a rather substandard scrummaging record in the competition thus far this year. That means that his selection as Tighthead prop would be a disaster for the Springbok team - so hold your horses on that one.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 May 2015, 17:14#18
Mike you ignorant twat, why don't you shut the fuck up....to say that Woodcock is now all of a sudden not up to it is bloody insulting

sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts

sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
19 May 2015, 17:53#19
Good to see the old Saffex is back- and in great form!
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 May 2015, 18:00#20
Yeah got bored of being nice to such rugby ignorance....let the games begin
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 May 2015, 18:19#21
Dave
Woodc ock is not "all of a sudden" not up to it - is crap. Woodc ock has been not up to it during the whole of Super 15 this year.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 May 2015, 21:22#22
Mike stop speaking utter shit....that's like saying Beast can't scrum anymore.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 May 2015, 22:00#23
You started it Dave....the moment you aren't believed I become old man. Well hello, don't be surprised if I allude to your weight problem. See a number starting with three on the scale yet...haha.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2015, 02:58#24
Mozart
You and Dave are very similar in your arguments. You decide i your minds that a certain player is top class and he remains such even when he fails over a considerate period of time. You then try and justify the reasons for the failure by masking it or simply ignoring it.
The loyalty aspect is admirable, but is it reasonable to support players who -
* has been good in the past - but whose performances have deteriorated badly; or* has the physical appearance at a youthful age, but failed to deliver what physically they could potentially deliver?
Is it not better to forget about the players who continuously under-perform and move on looking at other alternatives? That has always being my approach and in some cases I may be wrong - but in most cases poor performances by players are continuous and confirmed match after match.
We have Van der Merwe here who in Dave's dreams is a top class Tighthead and he sees positives in him when he is a cause of part of the Bulls scrumming problems - but in other cases we have players you have a similar fixation about.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 May 2015, 03:12#25
Van der Merwe is an accident waiting to happen. But on your main point, better to persevere with players who have proven they can contribute vs getting locked in on nothing players like Lappies and Jordaan who can't decline, because they have never risen....like you do.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2015, 03:35#26
Mozart
I look at the whole series of games - not single incidents in two games over a two year period and then makes a statement based on that.
However, your statement that it is "better to persevere with players who have proven they can contribute" is really questionable if and when those players keep on delivering substandard performances over a long period and that deficiency is ignored.
My contention has been the same - experience is important in team selection - but only of the experience is supported by continuous good performances. If not and experience is the only norm it is a recipe for disaster. Don't you remember the Morne Steyn failure in the Perth test last year as an example? Morne was -
* poor in 2012 and was consequently dropped by Meyer;* had an up and down performance record in 2013 culminated in a poor performance against the AB's in the Ellis Park test that year;* became the bench player of his Stade Francais club;* was indifferent to poor in the June tests last year and demoted to the bench by Meyer in the first two RC tests; and* when recalled to start was a disaster in the Perth test.
That is a classical example of experience that has gone sour. There are other similar cases that can be mentioned and where despite performance records - you remain loyal to players who lost it - mainly because of advancing age becom ing a problem.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2015, 11:28#29
Dave
I do mouth off about certain players, but in essence always give reasonable reasons for the criticism of players. Others are at liberty to disagree with my point of view and think the reasons I give does not hold water.
However, I also change my mind on players and that is when I perceive that they are performing well enough - and it is not as difficult for me to change my mind as it is for Mozart and you.
In the main I am more inclined to agree with you about players than I am to agree with Mozart - but in the case of Van der Merwe I am not happy about his performance in scrumming.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2015, 13:15#31
Took you more than two years to do that iro Kruger as far as I can remember.
I do not think anybody is stupid. Now tell me other than Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn, Victor Matfield and Willem Alberts - who am I constantly go for. Don't you think they deserve the criticism? I think they do - partly because they bugger up regularly and that is supported by their poor stats. Morne is not a flyhalf's ass or perhaps he is, Alberts is the same, Matfield is plain and simple not up to standard taking into account present standards and Francois Steyn is determined and put up a massive fight to have the worst stats of any 12 in the Super 15 tournament and his performances confirm that he is succeeding.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 May 2015, 14:51#33
Dave
It was more trying to turn things into a more amicable situation and tone down the strong words flying around that I wrote the above posting. It never was intended as an insult of any kind.
That being said I apologize to you about the posting.
Insofar as Francois Steyn is concerned I have been seriously disappointed about his performances since his return from France. The number of acceptable performances in all the games he played in you can count on the fingers of one hand. You may not like what I say constantly - the performances of Steyn has deteriorated from a promising performance in the early part of his career to a very questionable level of performance at present. In my book he is not even amongst the top four no 12's in SA at present. All of De Allende, Serfontein, Vorster and Venter out-perform him in match after match. With a bit of luck he can beat Odendaal to the no 5 position in the hierarchy. If his performance is better - I will be positive and write positively about his performance - if not, I will be honest and point out what he did in the negative. At present he is as far away from Springbok selection as the east is from the west.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
20 May 2015, 18:16#36
Hakwa, we need more than OK for the Boks and in my opinion Koch, Malherbe, Jannie and Coenie are better....iin that order. Coenie will never make my starting bok TH. He can be a super sub, but I wont even bother with him against the decent scrumming teams. LH is another kettle of fish though.
21 May 2015, 12:57#37
Coenie and Jannie are in the same category.