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FORUM / RUGBY /  Mark Andrews on PSDT loss

Mark Andrews on PSDT loss

Started by Saffolk 43 REPLIES548 VIEWS· 17 Mar 2015, 17:53
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Mar 2015, 17:53
#1
17 Mar 2015, 17:53#1

Former Springbok lock Mark Andrews believes the injury to Pieter-Steph du Toit is a big blow to the Springboks' World Cup prospects. BRENTON CHELIN reports.

The season-ending injury suffered by Du Toit against the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein could have far-reaching consequences for Springbok rugby. While Heyneke Meyer's squad looks capable of withstanding an injury blow in most positions, No 5 lock is not one of them.

 

The 22-year-old Du Toit and 37-year-old Victor Matfield were shaping up as the only prospects for the upcoming World Cup. To lose one of the pair, when he had started the season in such sparkling form, places the Springboks in a precarious position.

Andrews, who won 77 Test caps for the Boks as well as the 1995 World Cup, says Du Toit's injury is a worse-case scenario for the Boks.

 

'It's a huge loss for the Springboks. No disrespect to Jean de Villiers and his standing in South African rugby, but it's as big a loss,' Andrews told SARugbymag.co.za.

 

'Our chances of winning the World Cup have gone down perhaps 10% after he was ruled out.'

With Du Toit facing another long stretch on the sidelines, the Springboks will need to find a viable replacement. Locally there are few options, with Ruan Botha and the currently injured Stephan Lewies two possible contenders, although neither have shown themselves worthy of an international call-up at this stage of their careers.

 

Andrews believes Heyneke Meyer might need to look abroad in search for a replacement.

'There's no-one else that stands out for me at the moment. He [Du Toit] is head and shoulders above the rest of the South African second rowers in Super Rugby.

'Perhaps we need to look at getting Andries Bekker back. I haven't seen him play in a couple seasons, but if they can get him back for the end of the Super Rugby tournament, then he would be a good fit. He has the experience and has done it before at international level.'

 

Du Toit has been one of the standouts for the Sharks despite their slow start to the season, and is the top lineout performer in the competition. However, Andrews believes that it's his physicality that will be missed the most by the Boks, where he remains worried about the ability of the Bok tight five to dominate against top-class opposition.

 

'The problem for the Boks at the moment is we don't have anyone in the tight five that dominates physically, apart from Bismarck du Plessis,' says Andrews.

'Eben Etzebeth hasn't returned to the form he showed in his first season, while Victor Matfield has never been the greatest when it comes to the physical side of the game.'

'Bakkies Botha used to compensate for him in this regard, but he's gone now. Take nothing away from what Victor has achieved, but Du Toit is a complete second rower – a No 4 and No 5 rolled into one.

 

'He's not only great in the technical aspects, but physically there are few that can match him. Add to that his presence on the field, and you can see why there's so much hype surrounding him.

 

'Unfortunately he's had his problems with injuries, but I believe he's still set for a long future at the top.'

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Mar 2015, 18:00
#2
17 Mar 2015, 18:00#2
 Dave
The following is a report from a tweet by Pieter-Steph:-
"The Sharks and Springboks have been given a massive boost as Pieter-Steph du Toit has undergone an operation and could be back for the end of the Super Rugby season.

The Sharks second rower injured his anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in the 36th minute of the Sharks 10-27 victory over the Cheetahs on Saturday.

Early expectations were that Du Toit would miss the rest of the season which meant an end to his Super Rugby season and no Rugby World Cup for the Sharks lock.

However Du Toit has revealed on his Twitter account that he has undergone surgery and that the doctor says provided his rehab goes well he could be back in three months.

"A MIRACLE just happened. Just got home after surgery, everything went well, "said Du Toit in his Twitter feed.

"Doc said I will be able to play in 3 months, if rehabs goes well."

While Du Toit has a chance of playing in the business end of the Super Rugby it would seem that if all goes well he could make the world cup with the Springboks. 
This news would be totally devastating for Mozart - who rejoiced prematurely about Du Toit being out of the Rugby Championship and the WC this year.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
17 Mar 2015, 18:13
#3
17 Mar 2015, 18:13#3
Did Moz rejoice Mike...I really don't think so...Mozart plays tricks on every one here...I dare not go down this line...I understand, at least I think , his contaminated humour...living in the USA changes your sense of humour.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Mar 2015, 18:23
#4
17 Mar 2015, 18:23#4
Great news re the big man  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Mar 2015, 20:42
#5
17 Mar 2015, 20:42#5
 The mind boggles that pap victor could still be in the mix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eben also can play 4 or 5.It would be nice to see Bekker back in the Super 15 so we can assess how he is going.Willemse is a must.
Old men Beast and Jannie are not dynamic enough these days. Bissie also is not the player he was. These three may well ahve benn overtaken by the youg brigade. Matfield is a huge no no. 
No wonder the Bok tight five are not dominting and Meyer shores them up with big loosises. Get the tight five right and perhaps we can add a bit of extra pace to the loosies when playing against pap packs like the netballing wee abs. Bwhahaahahahhahaha ha





OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
17 Mar 2015, 22:27
#6
17 Mar 2015, 22:27#6
Andrews has always had a thing for PSDT and imo is overstating the loss. He fits his type for a lock. He said the same thing last time he was hurt - that he would be a "big loss" for the Boks. We were fine. Obviously the preference would be that we have PSDT as an option, but three months recovery is no minor surgery, this is the second occurrence of a knee injury for the guy after minimal playing time. Rushing back should be the last thing on PSDT's mind. In fact, missing the WC altogether may be in his best interest. He could easily be around for another two at his age.
Why make the same mistakes that have been made with Eben who is constantly dealing with injuries now and is nowhere near his past form?
Matfield should be in cotton wool though, along with DDA, Coenie (how much better is he scrummaging this year?), Habana and Duane. Lose one of those and the drop off to the next player up is significant. 

Pieter-Steph du Toit's injury throws the spotlight on Victor Matfield's critical importance to the Springboks in a World Cup context, writes RYAN VREDE.

The Springboks are well stocked in most positions and would be able to absorb the blow of losing players in those positions relatively comfortably. Not so at No 5 lock where Du Toit and Matfield were almost certainly the two picks in that position for the World Cup.

Du Toit, however, won't play again for another three months, possibly longer, after tearing knee ligaments against the Cheetahs on Saturday. It's his second such injury, having missed the bulk of the 2014 season with the same ailment. Meyer had high hopes for Du Toit this season, believing the 22-year-old to be highly competent physically, technically and mentally despite his age and relative inexperience. Indeed Du Toit began the Sharks' campaign strongly and had been building to his best form before the injury.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer's knees are likely to be raw in the coming months given the amount of time he will spend on them petitioning the rugby gods to be merciful towards Matfield as far as serious injury is concerned. I asked earlier in the campaign whether Matfield still had what it takes to compete at an elite level. He looked off the pace in the opening rounds but then turned in a throwback performance against the Sharks at Loftus to remind us of his enduring class. Here's to him consistently replicating that form.

The Vodacom Bulls managed Matfield carefully upon his comeback from retirement in 2014, so Meyer should have no concerns on that front for the season ahead. However, the nature of the game is such that there is always the possibility of the veteran lock sustaining a freak, catastrophic injury that would rule him out of the global showpiece.

As far as men that could fill the void are concerned, the Stormers' Ruan Botha looks a promising player and may develop quickly as the tournament progresses. My sense is the World Cup will come too early for him to be a real consideration.

Meyer deeply lamented former Stormers lock Andries Bekker's decision to take up an offer from Japanese side Kobelco Steelers in 2013. He saw the giant second rower as the natural heir to Matfield, consistently extolling his value at lineout time and in general play. The Top League fixture list and match intensity has been kind to Bekker's fragile back. By all accounts he's in good nick and Meyer may have to consider feeling him out about a Test return.

Eben Etzebeth has been utilised in the position from time to time but has not developed to the point where he could lead the lineout. Besides, he is far better deployed in his preferred No 4 role.

Last year Meyer explained in detail to me the importance of having an experienced No 5, citing the ever-growing trend of tries in Test rugby being scored from lineout launches. On attack, he said, that player would amplify their threat, while defensively he would be able to stifle the opposition's plans.

At present, only Matfield fits that bill but at 37 (he'll be 38 by the time the World Cup kicks off) it's a dangerous situation for Meyer being forced to put all his eggs in that particular basket.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Mar 2015, 23:21
#7
17 Mar 2015, 23:21#7
 oimatey
Sorry - but I am not convinced about Matfield.  He does very little in Tight 5 play - his line-out work has deteriorated to a level close to non-existent and he has definitely weakened the Springbok Tight 5 combination.  
All his lauding by some people is ba sed on his reputation - there is very little being said about his present performances.   Reputation and experience is a good thing - but if it does not go hand-in-hand with actual high level performances - it is a serious negative. 
Let m be more explicit - the type of game Matfioeld played nowadays is what can be called a safe game to guard against injury - and he brings very little force into his game and that is where injuries really occur.   At this stage as a lock - Matfield is nothing more than a bit player - doing very little of real value in practice. What is amazing is that some people are punting other players with an equally bad injury history over the last three years as Du Toit - but in the latter's case this is the problem that is harped on.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Mar 2015, 00:05
#8
18 Mar 2015, 00:05#8
Andrews is terribly jealous of Victor Matfield. It's that simple.  
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
18 Mar 2015, 02:21
#9
18 Mar 2015, 02:21#9
Beeno we have the best lock in the world retalluck. And our tight five is clearly ithe best based on abs winning percentage.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Mar 2015, 03:11
#10
18 Mar 2015, 03:11#10
If you want to know what's motivating Andrews look no further than the first post on this string, where SARugby celebrates its 20 years, by selecting the 20 best Boks. In the front of the image we have Os, Joost, Schalk and you guessed it, Victor Matfield.
Andrews is green with envy, maybe thats why we cant see him on the cover. Hahaha.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Mar 2015, 04:17
#11
18 Mar 2015, 04:17#11
 Over the last 20 yeears - and we have Os, Joost, Shak and Matfield.   That is not at all disputed - but is time not a factor in the performance of players?   Os and Joost is out of the game -  Burger and Matfield is still ha nging on - but to say they rate performing on the same level as they used to do - is one of the craziest jokes I have ever heard.
What reason could Andrews have about jealous of Matfield - the mind boggles.   Why is it necessary to find a stupid reason to criticize anybody critical of Matfield's present performances and identifying the problems associated with his present performances?          
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Mar 2015, 13:44
#12
19 Mar 2015, 13:44#12
My guess is that Mark Andrews might just know what he is talking about......his word over yours Moz is a given  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
19 Mar 2015, 13:56
#13
19 Mar 2015, 13:56#13
Mark Andrews is spot on about one thing . . . if Pieter-Steph is crocked for the RWC then the only real solution is getting Andries Bekker back from Japan.

I always thought Bekker ditched a potentially great international career way too early and if there's any chance we can get him back playing some Super Rugby before the RWC then we should be doing anything and everything to make that happen.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
19 Mar 2015, 15:02
#14
19 Mar 2015, 15:02#14

I disagree Rooi......I think we have more than enough lock talent to get by. Personally I would play Willemse at 4 and move Etzebeth to 5 for the Boks. He has played there before and done a good job.

 

Ruan Botha is playing really well at 5 for the Stormers and I rate Lewies of the Sharks as a 5. He is back from injury soon.

 

Willemse and Etzebeth as first choices with Botha, Lewies, Lood, Jacques du Plessis and Jean Kleyn fighting for a spot.

 

The likes of Etzebeth, Lood and du Plessis have all played at 5. 

 

Agreed on Bekker though, he did mess up his chances of playing many tests for the Boks.....sadly I think his age and having had to live in Matfields shadows all those years must have pissed him off a little and made his move easier

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Mar 2015, 15:29
#15
19 Mar 2015, 15:29#15
Willemse and Etzebeth would be a potent pairing. Bekker for all his promise, never had a really convincing game in the Bok jersey. It's hard to see why he would be better now. But if there is a chance of getting him back into the mix, it can't hurt.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Mar 2015, 19:35
#16
19 Mar 2015, 19:35#16
At least Bekker is not 37 years of age under-strength 105 kg specimen.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Mar 2015, 20:06
#17
19 Mar 2015, 20:06#17
 PSdT has lots of potential,  but it's all moot if he can't stay fit. Eben is also a bit prone to injury, but at least he can string together a few games once in a while. Injuries were Bekker's Achilles heel as well...I don't know if the lighter workload in Japan improved his fitness,  but fit and inform, he was the best ever, albeit only for a few games.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Mar 2015, 21:07
#18
19 Mar 2015, 21:07#18
The latest injury was almost impossible to pin point, other than he took a step back and turned on his leg. It must have been a huge shock for the poor kid. How do you confidently pivot on your knee after that? 

The ACL provides about 90 per cent of the knee's stability so I find the outcome puzzling. Either Steph and his Sharks handlers very much over reacted to the incident. Or as they claim there was divine intervention. Or there is a third possibility, the season would be lost anyway with the full operation, so try the stabi lization routine....hope it works, and if not go the more usual route.
I hope I'm wrong, but this has a whiff of Pierre Spies/ Bobby Skinstad.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Mar 2015, 00:51
#19
20 Mar 2015, 00:51#19
 Well at least the injury was not nearly as bad as first thought. Given how he caused the injury it never made sense that it was serious. The fact that he could walk after was also a good sign.
He has had a poor run but hopefully all will be well in 3 months as we need him partnering Eben in the WC....not some 38 year old liability.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2015, 01:00
#20
20 Mar 2015, 01:00#20
None of us are surgeons so we don't know about the physical side....but mentally that has to be a confidence sapping injury.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Mar 2015, 01:08
#21
20 Mar 2015, 01:08#21
The kid is a hard farm boy he will be fine. Had it been a bad injury again to the same knee he might have had a worry.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2015, 01:15
#22
20 Mar 2015, 01:15#22
 Mozart
Have you ever been right about anything?   In this case you could not get the article about the year-ending playing injury to Du Toit on this site quickly enough  after Du Toit left the field and walked about afterwards.
When told - be careful there has been no scan done and no specialist report on the case - you disregard the absence of professional medical evidence and carry on regardless.  
Now you are onto a new one - in faint hope for the worst case scenario:-
"Or there is a third possibility, the season would be lost anyway with the full operation, so try the stabilization routine....hope it works, and if not go the more usual route."

Why should there  be a third possibility as you are guessing about.  Du Toit saw the first specialist and the latter told him the injury is not as serious as was sensationalized by the media.  He then went to see a second specialist to confirm that opinion.   The latter concurred and suggested a fairly minor medical procedure as well as a three months lay-off.     Why should the medical professionals - who in SA still have  an ethics code - put their good name in doubt in this case?   Why should the Sharks and Du Toit potentially jeopardize his long term career by taking a chance in this case?    
As I said all along - it is no good guessing and writing tripe in this case.   See what the medical specialists come up with and then accept the outcome.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2015, 04:50
#23
20 Mar 2015, 04:50#23

A "minor medical procedure" which required a 3 month layoff. There's your first problem. Minor medical procedures, ligament strains.....don't take 3 months to fix. Face it you said he was going to be playing this week....I merely pasted a report which was carried in every major rugby publication.

 

 

This boy has missed his second S15 in a row and we will have to see if he is a factor beyond that. Sternum problems and two knee issues. He is hardly durable.

 

 

The egg is all yours.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2015, 07:58
#24
20 Mar 2015, 07:58#24
 Balls - that was after the commentators comments and before you, went bananas on the injury.  Fact is you reacted to an article in the media without ever thinking about the reality of the situation - 
*   in that no scan was done; and*   specialist opinion obtained.
Problem is you have a really deficient thinking ability on rugby issues.   You routinely -
*   splash over newspaper reports on this site as if that is the alpha and omega of the situation when it fits your book; or
*   when you think it fits your argument you use the ESPN stats.
When  contrary opinions to what you think should be the case are expressed in newspaper reports - eg the comments of Ollie Le Roux and Mark Andrews - some ridiculous statements  by you are the result.   Problem is that when one evaluate  the content of the reports you think says it all - there never really is not any performance evaluation in the articles and the articles are basically only what is generally called verbal diarrhea.
The funny part is although you do not hesitate to quote ESPN stats when it fits your book - the real joke is you totally ignore the said stats when it does not support your ideas.   The latter is routine with you - but what is even worse is when you evaluate those selfsame stats by nitpicking  - normally to obscure the situation or deviate from the core of the discussions under a specific threat.     
The above is further complicated by the fact that you are a one-incident fool and a player can be excellent for a season - the only thing that counts is that one incident.   In essense the above leads to the most ridiculous and unfounded statements on your part and the egg is not in my face - but covers your whole body.  You did not consider the circumstances again.   Du Toit was not admitted to any hospital - so at most what would have happened is a procedure done under local anesthetic, so how major could the operation have been?    
Most lay-offs are based on safety measures to protect the individual.   A player laid off for a leg and foot injury continues with upper body training and would start with leg gym training after about a month to 6 weeks in the case of a  less serious injury. then three weeks gym training on the leg or foot and then another 3 weeks  field training to recover match fitness.   In the case of serious injury leg injury the gym training on the leg or foot starts on 4 to 6 months after the operation following the injury.   Frans Malherbe had  some injury problems in the past and that was the general timelines he mentioned to me.   The idea that a three month lay-off is for serious injuries is hence ridiculous - it is fairly routine for players to be laid of for two to three months as a safety measure and to ensure that proper recovery procedures are followed.
Now go ho,e and try and wash the egg off - it will probably take three months to make any headway to even remove the first layer because a full removal will take six months.                   


  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2015, 15:15
#25
20 Mar 2015, 15:15#25

Nope...I reproduced the news flash. But this is what we said about the injury:

 

 



Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10988 RE: Steph out for the season
March 16, 2015, 02:07:57 I suppose there is some hope the scan will be less of a disaster, but the information is very specific.

 

Sober and actually totally accurate. It was a disaster, he has lost a whole season. But if the cure works, less of a disaster than originally thought. Whereas your view was pure fantasy. Egg Moronic, lots of egg.

 

 


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 15700 RE: FS PSDT injured again.
March 14, 2015, 19:06:51  Dave 
Not a serious injury - the guy had his knee strapped and is walking around - will be back next week.   H e had a great game before his injury though. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2015, 16:01
#26
20 Mar 2015, 16:01#26
 Love to quote what I wrote - but not a word about 
*   an unsubstantiated newspaper report you grabbed at and splashed all voer the Board;
*   Your ridiculously stupid  comments on "thin shoulders and thin wrists"; and
*   Your ridiculous guessing about and propagating the serious injury story after the full decription fo what was done and what is to eb dne to get D u Toit back onto the playing field.
Dimwit the player will be back middle June and playing int the RC.  Your  delight about the injury as a means to remove  Du Toit from the Springbok squad - leaving an an opening for the uselss  Matfield - is ridiculous and tragic.
How many players have missed the whole season of Super Rugby?  S uper rugby comprise of 16 matches - Du Toit played in 5  - so how has he lost the whole season.  He could easily be ba ck to play in three more games - so he is at most lost half the season.  Know the difference between "whole" and "half"?   Seems not - so get real stupid. 
Lastly your view was wishful thinking - wishing for a more serious injury than the case was - and still wishing for it after the facts were publicized.  That is not egg, it is the personification of a vicious and spiteful character.              
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Jul 2015, 13:14
#27
30 Jul 2015, 13:14#27
 It is mid-April 2016 and the scene is the Stormers' training grounds. 
A tall blonde guy in training gear comes strolling towards a group of players busy with line-out practice.
Blonde player: Good Morning guys. Hi Eben.Eben Etzebeth: Hi. WTF are you?Blond player: Don't you know me? I'm your Springbok lock partner, Pieter-Steph du Toit.Eben Etzebeth: FFS, mate, it is mid-April and we have been playing Super Rugby for ages and you only show up now. Where have you been all the time?Blonde player: Rehab..............
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 13:44
#28
30 Jul 2015, 13:44#28
 Ceradunce
Thanks for raising this issue.  You are a seriously dumb idiot to repeat that one.  Etzebeth did not take part in any Super 15 matches before the middle of April,  since he was injured at that stage - he was on rehab.  Du Toit was playing and went on rehab in round 5 of Super 15 in the third week of March, Etzebeth was still on rehab.    So you are just making an ass hole of yourself - same as you usually do anyway.
Have a very happy Idiots Day again .  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Jul 2015, 14:39
#29
30 Jul 2015, 14:39#29
Rehab what asks Eben....Rehab a fourth time says Stephanie. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Jul 2015, 14:55
#30
30 Jul 2015, 14:55#30
  Ou Hangtiete, read it again. Slowly and carefully this time. Pay particular attention to the date. BTW, it was all TIC and a lot of baiting, Guess what? I caught the specific fish that I was after. Hook, line and sinker. The joke is on you. P@epol.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 15:24
#31
30 Jul 2015, 15:24#31
 Ceradunce - aka Dofdoos
You have a sick sense of humour - guess  what you are sick to try and that situation into false humour - dofdoos.  No FO doubl e dofdoos    
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Jul 2015, 15:28
#32
30 Jul 2015, 15:28#32
 Sick humour he says. Like my dad and the asylum kind of humour?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 15:35
#33
30 Jul 2015, 15:35#33
 Problem is I apologise about the father issue - but I now realize that his son has a serious health problem  and if he was alive I would have sympathized with him.  The son - Dofdoos - brain his been swamped by sh!t and he is consequently a serious case of shit in the brain disease - a condition resulting from constant spouting sh! t on this site. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Jul 2015, 15:41
#34
30 Jul 2015, 15:41#34
 No. You didn't. After a number of people jumped on your back about it you came up with a feeble: "I appologise for mentioning your father" BS. You apologised for mentioning him, not for what you said about him. But let's leave it at that because you clearly did not really mean to apologise in any event, and any apology would be insincere in any case. Specially coming from you.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 15:55
#35
30 Jul 2015, 15:55#35
 The stupid idiot does not even understand that I apologised and he is too stupid to understand anything else as well.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 Jul 2015, 16:44
#36
30 Jul 2015, 16:44#36
 Mike, as I have said, let's leave it. Your Tourette's like tantrums are not going to change anything and if you want to revisit the whole saga, you are the only one who is going to end up with a red face. 
To me, it does not matter that you think that anybody could accept your attempt of an apology. You know, and I know that it was an insincere, halfhearted apology that you made under duress from others on the forum and not from me. I have never once insisted that you apologise because I knew that it would have been worth nothing. I only drew your attention to what I thought about your remarks. That is just the nature of you as a person. 
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
30 Jul 2015, 16:47
#37
30 Jul 2015, 16:47#37
 Well I respect what Mark Andrews says for the simple reason that he has been there and done it more times than all of us "EXPERTS" combines.

du Toit with "one leg" is better than Victor (fly-half) Matfield with "no legs" I say.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Jul 2015, 16:55
#38
30 Jul 2015, 16:55#38

Comparing the utterly useless Matfield to the very impressive PSDT is insulting.


Matfield was good in his day but PSDT will prove far better.....much like Etzebeth is doing now, when it comes to comparing him with Bakkies.


This younger generation of locks are even better than potentially the best pair we have had to date in Bakkies and Vic  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 17:59
#39
30 Jul 2015, 17:59#39
 Dave
When won reads what is written here on Victor Matfield the praise-singing by some is over-whelming.  He was called by some the best lock in the professional era ever in the history of the game if I recollect correctly.
This may be the view of some of our members - but certainly the view of at least three locks that played for the Springboks just before the said era.   In a recent discussion on the lock issue and potential look selection for the WC.  The discussion started off with locks of the past and in the professional era.  None of the two panel members (Wiese and Geldenhuys) mentioned Matfield as one of the top SA international locks ever - nor in the locks in the professional era in SA.   The two ex-locks did not support the selection of lock for the WC squad either.   When challenged about Matfield - the two panelists said that Matfield was one of the best line jumpers ever, but that he lacks the grunt to make contribution (other than in the limited aspect of line-outs)  to the Tight 5.   
To argue that Matfield is what is written on this site by some members and then get contrary opinions from top locks of the past the question is who is the most qualified person (s) to believe in the field of performance -
*  our members who get insulting when their statements are queried and opposed; pr*  ex-locks who was totally opposed to the members views and then try and sideline the issue by personal remarks reflecting negative image of the ex-locks concerned.
In the final an alysis it is clear that there are deficiencies in Matfield that would impact negatively on the performance in the WC.  However, one cannot expect from the members who idolize Matfield to change their minds.   What one should note is that they have a tactic to not defend their idol - but rather to attack potential threats to Matfield by all means - fair or foul.   The unfortunate emphasis on  unsubstantiated and often untrue and misrepresented issues - is unfortunately the standard usage of the latter iro Matfield and other potential Springboks.  It is really clear that their approach  is unethical and certainly detestable.          
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jul 2015, 18:37
#40
30 Jul 2015, 18:37#40
 Ceradyne
My approach as a person is exactly opposite to what you think it is.  I was  initially not really reacting to your constant attacks on me - at one stage you never started a thread - but simply reacted to what I have written on the site.   You rarely commented on anybody elses comments and I got frustrated by being trailed all the time by you - always making me out to be stupid and uninformed.  
For me you became somebody with no ideas about rugby - but expert in personal attacks on me.  Ultimately I lost my cool and that is where I fought back against your foul and continuous attacks on me.  I went overboard and apologised about what I said about your father - it was a genuine apology - but you choose to keep attacking me that I did not properly apologise and did not mean it.  You are entitled to your opinion - but knowing you that opinion would always be a misrepresentation of fact.

     
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