FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Meyer's great scrum-half gamble; Planet Rugby

Meyer's great scrum-half gamble; Planet Rugby

Started by Just_win24 REPLIES719 VIEWS· 17 Aug 2015, 18:33
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Aug 2015, 18:33
#1
17 Aug 2015, 18:33#1

No squad at the Rugby World Cup will be without its selection controversies, but Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer's plan for the scrum-half position can only be described as a gamble.

South Africa's game-plan has always and will continue to revolve heavily around their half-backs' ability to control the flow of the match behind their big pack, and Fourie du Preez's masterful execution of tactics was a key ingredient to the success of their 2007 campaign.

Meyer has made it clear that the former Bulls scrum-half is set to be his first-choice number 9 at the 2015 global showpiece, despite having not played in a single Test this year.

In fact, the 33-year-old has not played a competitive match - at any level - since February, when he featured in Suntory Sungoliath's 15-3 defeat to Yamaha Jubilo in the Japan Cup Final.

Having missed the November tour, Du Preez played just three Tests last year - with his last cap coming against a below-strength Scotland side in June 2014 - meaning that the Boks' opening World Cup game against Japan on 19 September is likely to be his first taste of international rugby in 15 months.

As a World Cup, Tri-Nations, Lions Series, Super Rugby and Currie Cup winner, Du Preez'z pedigree as one of the game's great scrum-halves is beyond question but to place so much faith in a player who has been away from the top flight for so long is surely a risk.

To be fair on Meyer, he is not rolling the dice on a player that is out to prove his potential. Du Preez, at his best, is a class act. But it is most certainly a gamble when considering the ageing scrum-half's injury record in recent years and lack of game time.

His sint in Japan means he'll be mentally and physically fresh, of that there is no doubt, but whether he'll be match-fit and ready for the bruising nature of Test rugby is up for debate.

The risk has been compounded by Meyer's selections over the past month with 31-year-old Ruan Pienaar starting every game this year and Cobus Reinach only getting a few minutes off the bench. If either of the older scrum-halves breaks down, the threat of a rusty Reinach being exposed is very real.

It's unlikely that Meyer would put as many eggs into one basket with any other player. He and Du Preez have a long history and the trust between them runs deep.

Du Preez was recruited by then-Bulls coach Meyer while still at Affies and moved across the road to Loftus Verfeld as soon as he finished high school. Together, they would go on to win back-to-back Currie Cup trophies and two Super Rugby titles.

As such, the veteran scrum-half is more than just a senior player in the Springbok squad. Much like Victor Matfield, Du Preez is highly regarded as a tactician and is part of the brains trust. His ability to play to Meyer's preferred pattern has twice seen him brought back into the Bok squad after long layoffs.

It wasn't supposed to be this way. Meyer has long planned to use Du Preez as his first-choice scrum-half and the Rugby Championship was supposed to be the opportunity for him to get some game time in the build up to the World Cup. A medial knee ligament injury torpedoed those plans.

Meyer loves to plan ahead, but questions must be asked whether his stance on Du Preez shows a lack of flexibility.

The emergence of Jesse Kriel as a replacement for Jaque Fourie - and potentially Jean de Villiers - suggests that Meyer is willing to roll with the punches and adapt to circumstances, but it remains to be seen if he is willing to change his script if Du Preez isn't up to speed when he finally does play.

With South Africa's draw set to bring them face to face with the runners up of the 'Pool of Death' and then potentially the All Blacks in the semi-finals, the two-time champions are sure to play a massive role in deciding who will win the World Cup, if they don't do it themselves.

Team selection will never be an exact science, and loyality from coaches is often repaid by players with 'big match temperarament'. Du Preez certainly falls within that category and when on-song is able direct the course of a game like a puppet master, so there will be a lot of teams hoping this is one gamble that does not pay off.

By Ross Hastie

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Aug 2015, 18:37
#2
17 Aug 2015, 18:37#2
It does seem like a gamble. As a coach he should have been getting answers about his player's abilities. Meyer must not have got the answers he was looking for with the other players I guess.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Aug 2015, 19:07
#3
17 Aug 2015, 19:07#3
 Unnecessary gamble IMO.  Just like the gamble with Matfield,  Habana and Jannie.  If anyone of them are injured,  a total rookie will have to take the field.  STUPID beyond belief.  He had 4 years to build a team and in the end it comes down to a gamble. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
17 Aug 2015, 19:28
#4
17 Aug 2015, 19:28#4
Hougaard is in red hot form for the Bulls, Meyer should atleast swap him with Reinach. Then next year develop Faf because he's got something about him.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2015, 19:29
#5
17 Aug 2015, 19:29#5
 JW
The problem with Meyer is his friendship with some of the players he us ed to coach takes precedence over performance by such players.    We have the cases of Morne Steyn, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez being typical examples.  If Botha and Steenkamp did not decide to call it a day - they would still be first choice players for inclusion in his squad.  
Morne Steyn was so disgusting in tests last year - he would still have been selected.  I can remember how Meyer was nearly in tears when he had to drop Steyn in 2012 because he was so disgustingly poor in tests that year.   He was even worse in 2014 - when Meyer dropped Steyn twice from the team.   But despite having not been in the starting line up or bench - Morne Steyn was a fixture in the squad ever since Meyer took over as coach. 
That brings me to Matfield - he is only in the squad because of his personal relationship with Meyer.  There is ample evidence that he at present is a joke as a performing lock and that remains a fact.  He is physically-deficient and most SA lock experts and Springbok supporters realize it.   But his friendship with Matfield is for Meyer the deciding factor - performance does not matter.
The same applies to Du Preez.  As stated in the article he played in June last year and was very average in all tests.  The man was injured and out of rugby for the rest of 2014.   The original injury stemmed in the main from lack of fitness.   After playing no rugby since March this year, he went to Japan for pr-season training and injured the same knee again because of chronic unfitness.  He was out of circulation ever since and there is no way he can be match-fit.  The man is 33 years old and it is a disgrace that his friendship with Meyer is the only reason for his selection.      
Draad is correct - the constant harking back to geriatric players landed us in a position where there are serious deficiencies in the potential selection iro the Springbok squad.  That perhaps is the biggest disgrace of all.  
      
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Aug 2015, 21:41
#6
17 Aug 2015, 21:41#6
 The use of Pienaar for so much of the game time was a monumental blunder as was the failure to give Faf a shot. Unfortunately this is not a once of error. Meyer is agreat guy but man he does some daft things. The woest of course is continuing with the worst "lock" ever. The weakest guy ever to play lock ever. 
Wonder what has happened to Kitshof. Thought he would be ready for last Saturday? Best loosehead in the Super 15.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
17 Aug 2015, 21:52
#7
17 Aug 2015, 21:52#7
Faff should have got a run but it is too late now. 
I would prefer him to Reinach as he is more a classic wing than Hougaard/Reinach/Pretorius who are small wings playing at scrumhalf.
In hindsight the Bok medical team were saying FDP was going to be fit ages ago, so Meyer did not expect him to still be injured. 
The bottom line is that FDP in his prime he is much better than all of the scrummies we currently have. Past his prime- he is still better- especially as a starting player. 
Anyone could be better than the Hougaard performance last year in Europe.  Hougaard is good on a hard pitch but he does not have the hands to play in had conditions.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Aug 2015, 22:06
#8
17 Aug 2015, 22:06#8
 SB
Insofar as Du Preez is concerned his selection is based on reputation and nothing else bar hsi relationship as a friend with Meyer.  
He was declared fit only two weeks ago and the next day he was unable to train because of a relapse - then declared fit again last week - but Meyer decided not to give him even a bench position on Saturday and it was done to protect him from further injury it seems to me.
It is clear to me that Meyer will definitely select him as his first option scrummie, but whether he will survive the first match would be a miracle.  The man is 33 years old and De Villiers said to even get to his level of performance at the age of 29 years he has to train twice as hard as he used to.   he was 32 years old then - so how much more must Du Preez train to be fit again.
The last photo of Du Preez indicated a rather fatter player than he used to be and I suspect that his selection will be a foul-up in capital letters.     
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 Aug 2015, 22:15
#9
17 Aug 2015, 22:15#9
 Faf should have been developed my Meyer, another coaching short-sighted blunder. Faf is fast of hand an foot & he seems to have good vision. Not so sure about his box kick but  he has great potential. Yup, the coach let you guys down on that one. 
So now it is down to gambling & hoping a few old timers can put together a few last games or at least last moments. It could happen, you never know, the Samoans won't be a problem will they Brycy?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Aug 2015, 22:51
#10
17 Aug 2015, 22:51#10
These kind of pathetic calls by Meyer sum his incompetence up. The fact that passive Pienaar has started every test and the fact that our best 9 in Faf has not smelt a test speaks volumes.
Not to mention his pathetic treatment of Hougaard who happens to be in red hot form at 9 for the Bulls right now.
Meyer is fucking useless 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Aug 2015, 23:53
#11
17 Aug 2015, 23:53#11
Oh nonsense. Faf is nowhere ready to control a WCgame. If you want to see why just look at the Stormers  vs Lions concluding S15 pool game. Hm tried van Zyl, he failed, he tried Schreuder in the squad...a mistake. Hougaard was supposed to be automatic....he became a bumbling zombie. Reinach is only marginally better...another ritual charge down, dropped ball at the base, direct kick into touch artist.

The only other candidate would have been Kockott, stupidly iced by South African rugby.


There is no obvious alternative. Pienaar is experienced enough to play...F du Preez is a gamble, if he is not capable of playing HM will pull the experiment. But if he is ready he towers over all others.
Another classic case of blaming the coach because the players have bombed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 02:33
#12
18 Aug 2015, 02:33#12
 Balls as per normal.  Meyer did try Reinach a few times last year and he contributed well - especially in the English test where he scored a try.  In the other test he started in the forwards collapsed in a heap and Reinach got piss poor balls - so he is blamed for a failure by the forwards 
If he ever  did in the test last Saturday what Pienaar did - he would have been denigrated by you in a message that covered 120 pages on this site - remember the messed up try opportunity of Pienaar as well as the kicking of the ball over the dead ball line from within the Springboks half of the field to name just two instances.   A slow service at the best of time as well as generally inaccurate kicks was the norm insofar as Pienaar is concerned.
De Klerk was never tried - so how would you know whether he was any good.   You have the audacity to conden him for the game where he scored a try and contributed to another one as being inadequate - the standard Mozart joke.   You apparently prefer not to remember another game where De Klerk just pushed Matfield out of his way and made a long distance break with ball in hand.   For your convenience I will give you the stats for those two players in that game:-
 Matfield0/000/9/20000013/14/130/0  de Klerk1/151/51/54411004/10/000/0   .     The tackle he beat was one attempted by Matfield - that really was a joke.
Without ever been tried by meyer - how can you state that "he is nowhere near being ready to control a WC game".  How would you know that as being factual?  Your normal bias telling you that one?
However, how an you state that if Du Preez is ready "he would tower over all else".  You have last seen him play 14 months ago - when he was just about average in performance.  Since then he virtually played no rugby and at 33 years of age would find it extremely difficult to even get fit - leave alone match-fit.   At least you admit  he is a gamble,  "if he is not capable of playing HM will pull the experiment".  What will happen then -  who will Meyer turn to then?   A player who has had NO experience ever playing on test level?
The fact is that Meyer fouled up badly with not building up a squad with at least some test experience for players in the squad.  The worst foul-up was in the case of the scrummies.  He tried two Bulls players - Hougaard and Van Zyl - and both flopped - Hougaard specifically in the NH conditions.  De Klerk was good last year already so why was he ignored and Van Zyl - the bench scrummie of the Bulls tried out?   I will give you the reason: -
Just like in the case of Jacque Fourie at 13 Meyer had a fixation about Du Preez in particular and he never prepared for the eventuality that the aged player might be ruled out of play or deteriorated to a level achieved by Jacque Fourie  - he put all his eggs in one basket and the eggs turned out to be rotting already.   
The players did not bomb - Reinach bombed in your imagination.  The coach bombed because of poor resource planning - that is what was normal with Meyer over the last three years.                 
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
18 Aug 2015, 03:11
#13
18 Aug 2015, 03:11#13
Bools groupie Meyer,What an absolute tosser. A wasted 3 years in the lead up to the most important phase of his tenure. We have still got useless pissang at 9, and our entire hopes hang on a player who's selection is based on reputation ONLY and nothing else.What makes things worse is that its not only at 9 where this has been done.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 03:45
#14
18 Aug 2015, 03:45#14
Thick as a brick.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 04:02
#15
18 Aug 2015, 04:02#15
 Talking of yourself again - I know you are egocentric, but I think this is pushing it a bit.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
18 Aug 2015, 05:08
#16
18 Aug 2015, 05:08#16
Don't be so hard on yourself Moz, everyone's entitled to an opinion.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
18 Aug 2015, 08:01
#17
18 Aug 2015, 08:01#17
I'd say that there are question marks over half the team ...... 9 10 12 15 3 6 7 8 to name a few .
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
18 Aug 2015, 08:27
#18
18 Aug 2015, 08:27#18

Fourie du Preez ... another Juan Smith experiment in the making? - except this experiment its planned for the period when experimentation should be a no-no.

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 09:28
#19
18 Aug 2015, 09:28#19
 blikkies - agreed with you on that one
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 09:38
#20
18 Aug 2015, 09:38#20
 By the way - if Du Preez bombed out - Meyer is likely to turn to Vermaak as a replacement.  Vermaak could thus far in CC not make the starting line-up - he was just not good enough anymore    However, he was a Bulls player and would be first in line for a call-up.
What a farce!!!!!!!!  
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
18 Aug 2015, 11:29
#21
18 Aug 2015, 11:29#21
 Probably a good idea then to call him up!

The Boks have been performing quite poor in their losses with so few Bulls players in those teams!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 12:39
#22
18 Aug 2015, 12:39#22
 Trooth Fairy
We all know Meyer loves bench players.  He constantly has the abominably performing  Morne Steyn in his squad and previously it was Fat Steenkamp.   Would not be surprised at all if Meyer calls up Vermaak, who cannot as yet got to the starting position in any team.   That would be par for the course in the case of our national coach - he is so stricken with using mediocrity as a selection criterium.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:30
#23
18 Aug 2015, 15:30#23

"Criterium" .....hahahahahahahaha. Nothing funnier than a pompous fool using big words he doesn't understand. This is a "criterium".

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:32
#24
18 Aug 2015, 15:32#24
Monster you are right. Everybody has a right to a point of view. I apologize for being snippy. Are you the new Shezza?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 17:02
#25
18 Aug 2015, 17:02#25

What a pathetically conservative outlook telling us Faf is not ready for WC action......what utter rubbish.


Kindly point out his failings in his game against the Stormers.......more utter rubbish.


Clueless Meyer has completely missed a trick ignoring Faf or showing faith in the in form Hougaard.


Instead he chooses to invest in passive Pienaar who offers zero with ball in hand and who's first instinct is to kick the crap out of the ball......but worst of all he sees du Preez as his starting 9, a bloke who is not only injured but hardly played any competitive rugby for a year.


And we wonder why we are languishing at number 5 in the rankings right now.


Our 9's should be Hougaard, Faf and Reinach..........Pienaar has failed all year and du Preez is a non starter.

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news