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Meyer's selections for Saturday

Started by clevermike21 REPLIES479 VIEWS· 12 Aug 2015, 11:47
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 11:47
#1
12 Aug 2015, 11:47#1
The following from Supersport and please do me a favour - try and get thjrough this lot without vomiting:-
"Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer says that the defeat to Argentina in Durban last Saturday caused the penny to drop for him and remind him what would constitute winning rugby at the forthcoming World Cup.

Meyer admitted that when playing against running orientated teams such as Australia and New Zealand, the Boks had got caught up in a desire to satisfy the perennial call from South Africans to play a more quick paced and aesthetically pleasing game. But while that worked against like-minded southern hemisphere teams, the Pumas had sent out a telling reminder of what is required against the northern hemisphere mind-set.

Although Argentina is in the southern hemisphere, almost all their players play for northern hemisphere clubs and thus take on the northern hemisphere approach. Meyer said that the reminder had played a part in directing his decision to select Pieter-Steph du Toit as a flank back-up for Saturday’s return clash with the Pumas in Buenos Aires. That and the need to have a player in the World Cup squad who could cover both lock and flank.

“Up to now all of our top ball carriers have been injured, so we were basically forced to pick a loose trio made up of opensiders against New Zealand and Australia,” said Meyer in explaining his selections.

“You can do that against Australia and New Zealand as they play a much quicker game. The Super Rugby style of play is quick paced and so generally is the Rugby Championship, but it is a very different game to what is played in the northern hemisphere and which will be required in northern hemisphere conditions at the World Cup.

“It is my fault because I should have learned last year, when Ireland caught us out for the same reason at the start of the end of year tour. In the north the rugby is much more of an arm wrestle, and on the last end of year tour we were caught out because we lacked big ball carriers and were outmuscled, as we were against Argentina last Saturday.

“So Willem Alberts will play a big role for us, and he needs game time and this is his last chance to get in some play before the World Cup. But he will play for just 30 minutes. Pieter-Steph also needs game time, as he’s only played 20 minutes, and has only played two tests as a No5 lock.

“He was brilliant as a blindside flank when he played for South Africa under-20, and we believe he still has those attributes. What we have to do is really look at what we did in the northern hemisphere tours before the one last year. In 2012 we were unbeaten and again in 2013. Not many Springbok teams in history have gone to the northern hemisphere for a tour and been unbeaten.

“We played a tactical game on those tours, and we need to return to that. I have tried to play crowd pleasing rugby, but in every test that they play against us the All Blacks kick the most and end up winning. This past Saturday we tried to play rugby and kicked the ball only seven times, which should have pleased those who want us to play attractive rugby, but we got well beaten. Winning is what it is about and we need to become more tactical in order to do that.”

The selection of Alberts means that Meyer will have an out and out ball carrier at No7 for the first time this season, and indeed since halfway through last year, for Oupa Mohoje, who played there in the latter stages of the 2014 Rugby Championship and also during the November tour, doesn’t really fit that bill.

Marcell Coetzee played blindside flank against the World XV and against Australia, Francois Louw switched from openside to accommodate Heinrich Brussow against the All Blacks, and Coetzee, now injured, was back at No7 against the Pumas last Saturday. None of those players are specialist blindside flanks.

The switch in direction for the Boks now that the World Cup is near at hand is also reflected by the change at flyhalf, where Patrick Lambie comes in for Handre Pollard. The latter was brilliant in a typical southern hemisphere type test match against the All Blacks last October, and proved a handful for that team in the first hour of the most recent match between them.

However, he was dropped after a poor performance against Ireland at the start of the 2014 end of year tour, with Lambie, who has only lost once as the starting flyhalf in the northern hemisphere – the last match of 2014 against Wales – ending the tour as Bok first choice.

Lambie wore the No10 for all three test matches of the 2012 tour, when the Boks went through unbeaten, and also in 2013. The other player that Meyer might be considering for his suitability for northern conditions is Morne Steyn, but he is unavailable to play this week so that he can be at the birth of his child.

“I actually considered playing Morne and Pat against the Pumas in Durban (at 10 and 15 respectively), and it is a pity we haven’t got Morne available this week,” said Meyer.

“We have to play more tactically. Last Saturday we kicked seven times and got totally outplayed. I stuck with Handre Pollard in the previous games because he didn’t have a good Super Rugby season and needed to build confidence. Pat had been injured and I had to bring him back slowly. I have always considered him a potential first choice No10.”

The selection of Zane Kirchner at fullback also fits into the requirement for a more tactical game, though it is unlikely Kirchner will survive the cut when the Bok squad gets reduced from its current muster of more than 40 to the 31 that will travel to the World Cup.

“We need a guy who can field the high balls, and we need Pat at No10 this week. Zane is the guy who gets the second most criticism in South Africa, with me getting the most, but sometimes criticism is unfair. Polly came in and scored against the All Blacks and everyone thought it was a great selection, but then last week he almost got booed off the field. Zane has always been brilliant for us and Willie is out injured, so I am comfortable selecting him.”

This really is a collection of the biggest load of BS ever read on this site.  It is typical Herr Goebbels and DF gabble without any substance.   I read the gibberish and could not understand how far from reality Meyer really is.   In essence he selected the exact opposite to what he said.  Useless Albert at 7 yo achieve what?   Matfield to further reduce the Tight 5 to a Tight 4 or less.      




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 12:00
#2
12 Aug 2015, 12:00#2
 The only positive we may be able to get out of that match would be to see whether the dodo's in fact can make it through the game.  
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Aug 2015, 12:14
#3
12 Aug 2015, 12:14#3
 
He's a liar.

He wanted to do this and he wanted to do that .. and he always considered Lambie as his first choice 10 but because of this and because of that he was never selected ...

and "oh yeah I forgot what excuse I wanted to used when playing him off the bench in the last 5 minutes OVER THE LAST TWO SEASONS" .... "BUT HEY ... HE WAS ALWAYS MY FIRST CHOICE 10 ... "

"ALWAYS"

Oh and oooops I forgot that I mentioned earlier that I wanted to play him at 15 against Argentina ... BUT HEY ... HE'S MY FIRST CHOICE 10 ... ALWAYS HAS BEEN ...

Yeah right Mr Meyer ... we all believe this latest story of yours!!!

P R I C K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!



 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
12 Aug 2015, 12:31
#4
12 Aug 2015, 12:31#4
 There's a few things Meyer will have to realise quicksmart going into the WC...
A) Defence more than attack wins WC's
B) Cut your cloth to the material in hand(like JW did)
C) Don't pander to the public by playing expansive rugby.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 13:29
#5
12 Aug 2015, 13:29#5

What a load of rubbish, what it confirms is that he does not have a bloody clue......for a start which idiot of a coach would entertain the need to satisfy the perennial call from South Africans to play a more quick paced and aesthetically pleasing game?


As for his best ball carries being injured - bullshit......the best ball carrying 7 we had all S15 was Jacques du Plessis, but this idiot was too stupid to pick him. Not to mention CJ Stander plying his trade in Ireland and winning Munster player of the year for his efforts.....another opportunity lost by this clown. Saying he had to pick a bunch of openside flankers against NZ and Oz is absolute bullshit.


Meyer is so pathetically conservative that I bet the reason Kitshoff now seems lost to our WC cause given his non selection yet again is because he is not familiar with the Bok system - how wonderfully pathetic is this?


Same can be said of picking the rusty Reinach on the bench where his lack of game time has been apparent. Instead of picking our in form 9 in Faf on the bench he went with Reinach who has not played in months - why because Reinach knows the system and Faf does not - pathetic


So good old Meyer was going to select useless Morne last week and is lamenting the fact that he is not available this weekend.......could this clown drive us any further down than we already are.....hell is 5th in the rankings not bad enough?


The side to play this weekend is a joke with the return of useless Kirchner, Matfield and Alberts on board.....plus the retention of Pienaar at 9, the inclusion of Mvovo on the wing, Flip and Brits on the bench.


Sold short in every way

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 15:19
#6
12 Aug 2015, 15:19#6

Told you so. My exact thoughts expressed earlier on this site ....we have gone away from Bok rugby to please the stupid masses. That never worked either.....5 losses in 7 tests. The only wins against Italy and against the Poms when we actually for once did play typical Bok rugby.

 

Get back to the power game....I choose the 2013 YE tour, not the pie in the sky 2014 tour.

 

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 15:39
#7
12 Aug 2015, 15:39#7

Well given we came within inches of beating Oz and NZ playing an expansive game, something tells me we were on the right track........its just a pity our clown of a coach only had 50% of the side right.


Had it been 100% right, playing the expansive game would have seen us beat Oz and NZ.


But this twit does not know what to do.......and pathetic enough to blame the calls of the nation.....how weak is this guy?


He cant coach, he cant select and he has no idea what game plan to adopt......what a hopeless loser he is  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 15:53
#8
12 Aug 2015, 15:53#8
 This is real BS by Herr Goebbels once again.  Obviously fools thinks alike.  What did Meyer originally said about playing rugby against Australia and New Zealand - nothinf about the style of rugby played.  Zilch.  Now suddenly he must explain his loss and the rubbish flows like lava all over the place.
What was the difference between the sides that played against AB's and the one against the AB's - zilch.  He was  full of praise about beating the AB's and then for a rude awakening against the Irish.  Reason - the forwards caved in since the the presence of the weak Matfield at lock was not such a detrimental factor against the AB's as it was against the Irish.  You cannot play a NH Tight 5 with a Tight 4.  The fact is the Springboks did not play the same style of rugby against the AB's as they played against the AB's.  They could not - because like Saturday the prop forwards collapsed in a heap of rubbish and the first excuse was the players were flat because of hard training.
The reason on Saturday had nothing to do with the style of rugby played - but because of the backline only got slow scraps top play with courtesy of the props who collapsed and the clueless Pienaar.   They could not play what Meyer claimed they did and that is a fact.  
Now Meyer has an excuse so what dies he do.  He weakened the Tight 5 further by including the weakest lock in world rugby and then think that the least productive lock in the world is doing to swing the scale in favour of the Springboks.
Only a fool will believe that the Springboks j\has gone away from Bok rugby because of the style of play.  They have gone away from Bok rugby because they had a collapse in the Tight 5 - which is a requirement to play winning rugby.  You have gone dilly about the English test as well.   Go and looked what happened and you would see that the Springboks won that fame because of excellent play by the backline players - the forwards were atrocious, Matfield being another worst in his performance.   The Springboks won the test because of the top class performances by Lambie, Serfontein, Le Roux and Reinach - they won despite Matfield, Jannie and Beast.  So they played traditional Springbok rugby in that test?  Definitely not.
The other loss against Wales had the same origin - a hopeless performance by the forwards - which gave the backs scraps and that is a fact of life.
The winning rugby played by all countries depends of sound forwards and competent backs.  What you say is traditional rugby is a definite loser - since Meyer's selections have been destructive when it comes to forward performance - so the bottom fell out there - not in the backline.               

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 16:16
#9
12 Aug 2015, 16:16#9
Nope. I recognized the sheer stupidity of diverting from our traditional game.....trying to play " me too" rugby against nations that are better staffed to play that game. I noted HMs alarming tilt in the direction of the popular, the new, the supposedly more attractive.

It almost seems HM has been reading my posts. If he follows through ruthlessly I have no doubt we will turn things around on Saturday. But not if he listens to the Lambie whining or tries one of the inept scrummies.

I wait with interest to see if he has really got it.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
12 Aug 2015, 16:50
#10
12 Aug 2015, 16:50#10
 
I don't think it's about changing the style of play at all.

We've struggled to play an expansive game since Jean De Villiers entered the fray at 12.

With De Allende replacing the injured Jean we suddenly found ourselves getting back a whole lot more go forward like we're supposed to, as he's strong on he's feet and doesn't go to ground as easily ... his ability to off load in contact, putting the talented Kriel into space and with Kriel's running lines suddenly everything changed.

We're not about 10 men rugby. That's the Bull in him ... like everything else about him is tainted with the Bulls.
 
How he missed the obvious clues is beyond me.

It's all about selecting the right player in each position.

If he selected the right players in every position we'd be something special.

We'd have a team to be proud of.

Sadly he continuous with the Kirchners and the Matfields and so we remain a team dormant ... a sleeping giant so to speak.

For how much longer you may ask ... well it seems we're stuck with him till 2019, so till then its humble pie for us and a lot of frustration.

   


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 16:51
#11
12 Aug 2015, 16:51#11

Yeah Moz you and Meyer are cut from the same cloth when it comes to rugby......4 from 12 is all I need to know when it comes to formulating an opinion of the two of you when it comes to rugby.


Clueless, springs to mind  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:05
#12
12 Aug 2015, 17:05#12
De Allende had an impact against NZ. Against Aus & Arg he was pretty much anonymous. He only made one pass to Kriel in space against NZ, and it wasn't an offload. Pollard put Kriel away for his try. I don't think DA's put Kriel, or anyone else for that matter, away even once with an offload in test rugby so far. To suddenly herald him as the reason for our moments of strong back play is pretty shortsighted. Willie and Pollard has been much more influential in making things happen out back.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:16
#13
12 Aug 2015, 17:16#13
Bullshit, DA has been very influential physically against Oz and NZ, less so against the Argies  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 17:36
#14
12 Aug 2015, 17:36#14
 Herr Goebbels 
Come now - explain to all of us what is our traditional game and what is the role of the forwards in that game.  Also what is the role of the backline in the game.   Please  be explicit about it and try and look in the first instance at the Tight 4 - then the loosies.  The same with the backline.  
That really will then be a basis for further discussion.
    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:25
#15
12 Aug 2015, 18:25#15

But oops he missed Kuridrani to lose the Oz test, and set up our negative momentum. Give up already.....our backs are not going to run us to glory. We are still relying on Habana 8 years past his best, but still the best wing in the country by miles.

 

De Allende will be even less of a factor in the WC than he was against the Bargies where he again failed defensively.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:27
#16
12 Aug 2015, 18:27#16
 Herr Goebbels
Answer the previous question - please
Who will be more effective in the WC than De Allende?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:30
#17
12 Aug 2015, 18:30#17

Defensively? Little Bo Peep would show him a few things.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Aug 2015, 18:44
#18
12 Aug 2015, 18:44#18
 This answer showed a serious decline in discussion of rugby issues on the site to the point of childishness.  Not only a ridiculous liar - now a childish ridiculous liar as well.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
12 Aug 2015, 19:14
#19
12 Aug 2015, 19:14#19

 Sad when a coach openly admits he has been trying to please the fans in making selections. What kind of leadership is that? Ridiculous !
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
12 Aug 2015, 20:30
#20
12 Aug 2015, 20:30#20
 Meyer = cat on a hot tin roof. Jumping round.
You just cannot change the complete attack plan between games it is something that must evolve in time. But kicking posession away will kill us.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Aug 2015, 21:29
#21
12 Aug 2015, 21:29#21
Our backs outplayed nz. We can play balanced rugby and tests against Iz and nz proved that. If you know Bok rugby our trsdionsl strengths include a hard tackling backline capble if running the ball. Meyer is right in hus appreciation if the rugby okayed by NH sides. We can put un a hugely physical sude. However as Mike hss noted why play a tight 4???? Alberts may be okay but why hasnt Du Plessis been tried. Brussouw nevrr remitely had the effect of Kriel in the Super 15 but is ignored. The very powerful Willemse is ignored. The best scrummie in thr Super 15 de Kkerk is ignored. Vorster has been ignored. Pienaar the pedestrian is the only scrummie given a full shot!!!! Pollarrd played well again last Saturdayand remains our best flyhslf. It will be interesting to ser Du Toit at 7 Meyer has given a good insight which I have noted too but his implementation is poor. I just hope Allende and Kriel continue to show him what us possible. Willie will be missed. The bottom.line is any coach rhinking matfiled is needed is being very silly.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Aug 2015, 07:25
#22
13 Aug 2015, 07:25#22
 Beeno
This is exactly where Meyer claimed everything went wrong - he effectively blame the backs for the losing of the tests by saying the wring style of rugby was used in the game against Argentina.  
He ignored the real problem - the poor performance by our forwards.   The dolts on this site obviously blamed De Jager for that and ignored the fact that players like -
*   our props were beaten wholesale;
*    Pienaar was atrocious;
*    Bismarck,  Brussow and Etzebeth were flat; and 
*    Burger was busy as a bee, but totally ineffective  and a major reason causing the backline to misfire.
To fix that Meyer fell back on two props who to my mind should be the bench props - he failed to even consider Kitshoff, he put in the physically-weakest lock in world rugby and he added the low-work rate Alberts to the mix.  A worst forward selection is unimaginable. 
So what will the backline get from that lot - less than they got in the Wales test - and the blame of our comedians will be on them.  I am sorry I have no confidence i n that SA "B" team achieving anything.   
             
— END OF THREAD —

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