FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Meyer steps down

Meyer steps down

Started by Wardad51 REPLIES2,236 VIEWS· 03 Dec 2015, 14:01
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
03 Dec 2015, 14:01
#1
03 Dec 2015, 14:01#1
Heyneke Meyer has said he will not be renewing his contract . No doubt some saffas will be very happy and others......not so much eh ?Seemed a pretty decent fella undeserving of the vitriol tossed at him.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
03 Dec 2015, 16:32
#2
03 Dec 2015, 16:32#2
Unfortunately he did not deliver what the SA rugby supporters wanted.
Winning rugby not a few lucky wins.
Amen.
 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
03 Dec 2015, 19:47
#3
03 Dec 2015, 19:47#3
 I feel for HM, he is a proud and honourable man who made some poor decisions. I don't believe it was for a lack of trying, if anything he's loyalties to certain players and officials cost him. Ricardo Loubser as backline coach was a no-no.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Dec 2015, 19:59
#4
03 Dec 2015, 19:59#4
 According to the HM haters, two points from beating the WC winners was poor. All his wins were lucky. He should only have selected flavour of the day CC players. He should have been able to correct all the skills deficiencies built up from stampkar school boy rugby education. Overcome the multiplicity of injuries....found centres when there were none.....etc etc.
I think HM did a credible job without being brilliant. And it's not clear whether we have a better South African coach, or whether an overseas coach can succeed with a SA team....none have yet.

Having said all that, a change is probably the right decision. The unwritten clause in the contract is you have 4 years to win the RWC. HM has had his chance, albeit not under ideal circumstances.

Still it's time to try somebody new to see if they can find the last 5 per cent that gives us a WC. I doubt HM has another dimension to his coaching, and retaining him guarantees 4 more years of the same game, which has now been surpassed by teams like Argentina.
It's time for a new broom, but I have strong doubts it will make much difference given our poor talent pool.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
03 Dec 2015, 21:34
#5
03 Dec 2015, 21:34#5
Sacking Meyer is the right decision, in my opinion. 

His had some highlights in his time as coach:

- That win against the All Blacks (Although, one of his failing was that it was only one)- I'm firmly of the opinion he had the Aussies number, even during a couple of losses we deserved those games. He was coach in our first ever win at Suncorp against Australia. - Up until 2014, his NH record was excellent.- 3rd place at a WC after a disastrous start 

His win Percents against major nations is as follows:

Argentina: 78% (It's not bad at all, but the Durban result was shameful)
Australia: 57% (decent, consider that a couple of the losses against Australia we probably deserved and were the better team.)England: 80% (really good, never lost a game against them, drew once.)
France: 100% (good, only played them once though)
Ireland: 50% (Game last year was the start of the rut)
NZ: 13% (not good enough in the slightest, granted we ran them close a couple times but one win in however many years is not good enough)
Scotland: 100% (good)
Wales: 80% (bad result last year BUT big quarter final result!)Japan: 0%(oops)


Ultimately it's time for him to go, he's bedded in some new lads and hopefully a good footing for 2019. 

Ultimately this will only prove to be a good thing, if the next bit in the process is done properly and we get a good coach as a replacement. Alistair ******* Coetzee is NOT the answer. 

Please SARU, make this about rugby and not politics!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Dec 2015, 22:15
#6
03 Dec 2015, 22:15#6
Good decent man but not reading the modern game well. Under the spell of the rasputin of sa rugby meneer wee matfiled. A blunder of epic proportions as well.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Dec 2015, 22:15
#7
03 Dec 2015, 22:15#7
Good decent man but not reading the modern game well. Under the spell of the rasputin of sa rugby meneer wee matfiled. A blunder of epic proportions as well.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,279 posts
03 Dec 2015, 22:23
#8
03 Dec 2015, 22:23#8
When Meyer really lost the plot was during the 2014 year end tour. The team had become very expansive scoring lots of tries by the backline.
Somehow it all felt apart- Hougaard was a bumbling clown at the base of the ruck, and the loose forwards were poor at protecting ball- and the rest was history. 
Meyer then reverted to Plan A- which was no plan. When he got beaten by Japan he lost the plot completely. He reverted to a 10 man din ausure game that stifled the likes of Habana, JP, and Leroux.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
03 Dec 2015, 23:04
#9
03 Dec 2015, 23:04#9
 You guys gotta stop judging coaches by wins against the ABs ,he did no worse than the Aussies and better than Englands once a decade .Against Oz at Suncorp it was literally a matter of millimetres.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
03 Dec 2015, 23:14
#10
03 Dec 2015, 23:14#10
Wardad if you don't strive for the best, you'll never be the best. ABs have set the bar for many many years now, but the gap was even wider during the meyer years than before.

For instance, his predecessor Peter De Villiers had a 57% win percent against the ABs.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Dec 2015, 23:16
#11
03 Dec 2015, 23:16#11
Yeah I hear ya Wardad. It's tough though man. I guess for a lot of guys, we'd be happier if the style he played was better. There were flashes of the team coming out of their shell, but that's all. Maybe he should have gone balls to the wall and let the chips fall where they would. The annoying thing was when he played super expansive rugby against bad teams and then tried to use those numbers to talk about how many tries the Boks score. Nonetheless, your point is taken.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
03 Dec 2015, 23:35
#12
03 Dec 2015, 23:35#12
 Plum is Coetze going to be the next coach ?The Aussies have the same obsession about the ABs too ,better they should as Agpleeze says measure themselves against the ABs but not kill themselves over results.Its bad for the health bro !
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
04 Dec 2015, 00:06
#13
04 Dec 2015, 00:06#13

Meyer's timing with his experimentation was wrong.

Jake also evaluated the oldies during his time, but he did it in the 1st year. Remember the 49-0 against the Ozzies when he was evaluating Jaco van der Westhuizen, Joh Van Niekerk and Snyman in the backline. They were then replaced by Andre Verloorius (sorry Pretorius), Monty and Pakslae. His front row remained problematic until he fell back on Os and replaced useless Eddie Edwards(?, tighthead) with OKish CJ vd Linde.

Jake's biggest advantage was that he had a young Schalk, Juan, Bakkies, Matfield, Fourie DuP and Habana. Jake's team was in place at the start of his 4th year and Meyer not.


I see Oregan Pine Hoskin says SARU's transformation program is well under way and from this I deduct that poepies Coetzee will be the new coach.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 Dec 2015, 00:41
#14
04 Dec 2015, 00:41#14
 Mozart
The talent pool Meyer used was selecting reputation players who failed to perform and whose skill set was limited in any event was a major problem.   
The poor talent pool you are referring to is a figment of your imagination and is the result of prejudice against players - some of whom you have not even seen playing.  Fact is we have a wider range of players to select from than we have had for years.    


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Dec 2015, 05:47
#15
04 Dec 2015, 05:47#15
Nonsense HM tried every conceivable new player...only Etzebeth and Pollard came through in the RWC knockouts. The image of the newbie was Lomp being knocked onto his backside while the ABs romped over. Not enough talent ...and HM unfortunately  was swayed by the delirious press, who saw a world beater under every stone.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
04 Dec 2015, 06:33
#16
04 Dec 2015, 06:33#16
 I reckon Hansens opinions carry a fair bit of weight when it comes to RWC wins and he has firmly backed both Lancaster and Meyer saying it is a mistake to replace them.As he says it takes more than one tilt at a WC to get results and if he, Smith and Henry along with Woodward for England had been replaced after one attempt then they may well have failed again.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
04 Dec 2015, 07:57
#17
04 Dec 2015, 07:57#17
 
Meyer is a stubborn fool. He would not listen to plain simple logic.

If he had, we would now be celebrating a winning team and singing his praises.

Let's face it, the so called "many" youngster he blooded were talentless chumps ... undeserving of their selection. He gave away so many unnecessary caps it's beyond belief ... and what really get's my goat is how he deliberately ignored the obvious, abundant talent out there ... just because he would not be told how to do his job.

Who in his right mind would select a Werner Kruger for national duty ... huh?? Or a  Mohoje, a Hendriks, a Greyling or a JJ ... a Coenie and a Koloisi ... the list goes on and on ...  

Well ... he did it his way and now he's on the rubbish dump ... exactly where he belongs.

At least he kept his "integrity" ...

Good riddance!!


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
04 Dec 2015, 08:23
#18
04 Dec 2015, 08:23#18
Wardad, i hope it won't be Coetzee. But this is yet another penalty we'll pay for apartheid. I doubt I'll see the end of it in my lifetime...which I hope will span a few more WCs :) I'm hoping for Akkerman or or a foreign coach. I think there are a few here who'll back that opinion. But I'll settle for Coetzee over Meyer. We can only go up from here. Also, it's not just about WCs. I believe if you take care of the Rugby Championship...the WC will take care of itself. Moz I disagree about the talent pool. I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that I don't agree. Remember we had no good locks and HAD to include Matfield. Suddenly Lood gets some game time and then people start calling him the best in the world. Wonder if the backline was properly coached what people would be saying about De Allende, Kriel and some other guys who got snubbed like Combrink and Faf. Faf should have been the starting 9 since the beginning of the year. Instead...he went with Pienaar...then FDP. Jaco Kriel also got ignored, probably because he "likes to off load" which is apparantly criminal as far as Meyer is concerned. For that matter, why was Jantjies not included? I know you mentioned that people complained because Meyer didn't pick "flashing thr pan" CC players but these guys did well for their franchises in S15...and then had good CCs. Blikkies - Exactly. He should have chosen his best team in year one and then added form players into the fold in year two and three. And then in year four only added players who really forced their way into the squad. The way Milner-Skudder was introduced into the ABs...his inclusion was the right move, happened seamlessly and panned out well. Instead when the WC came around for the Boks Meyer was trying to bring old players out of the wilderness. Absolutely clueless. I'd sum his term as having misplaced loyalties, stubbornness and zero creativity.
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
04 Dec 2015, 08:38
#19
04 Dec 2015, 08:38#19
 very persceptive @Sharkbok
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
04 Dec 2015, 09:01
#20
04 Dec 2015, 09:01#20

Plum, how on earth can you say that apartheid is to be blamed for a Coetzee as coach?

What apartheid was there after 1994? - 21 years ago!!!.

What apartheid were there in rugby after say 1980? - or even 1977 when all official apartheid in sport was abolished? It was the ANC who said "No normal sport in an abnormal society" and kept on burning schools with their slogan "No education before liberation"

The Basil D'Olivera incident happened in 1969!

 

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
04 Dec 2015, 09:42
#21
04 Dec 2015, 09:42#21
 Allister Coetzee to coach Springboks


http://www.rdm.co.za/sport/2015/12/04/allister-coetzee-to-coach-springboks


Nice to find the RDM alive & well .

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
04 Dec 2015, 09:53
#22
04 Dec 2015, 09:53#22
 Just give the job to me and Mr Plum ,we can  trade it for a much better gig like united Scandinavian  ladies XV coaches ! Be more chance of winning a RWC not that we would give a bugger !
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
04 Dec 2015, 11:43
#23
04 Dec 2015, 11:43#23
 
Heaven help us!!

First we had an all Bulls coaching team ... now it'll be all Stormers.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!

Told you guys they'd do their best to avoid anything intellectual!!

The Government will probably have to step in and insist that Coetzee select at least 10% white players and not have the Goats consist of all coloureds

I can also see Juan De Jongh making his long awaited entry into Bok rugby. Mozart will be pleased.

De Allende at 12 ... Juan at 13 and Kolbe at 15 with Senatla on the wing ... Kolisi at 6, Schalk at 7 and Duane at 8 ...

Then we can expect Eben at 4 with PSDT at 5 and Malherbe at 3.

There might be room for Bismarck and Pollard.

It's gonna be interesting.






BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
04 Dec 2015, 12:15
#24
04 Dec 2015, 12:15#24

Well, if the regime insists on demographics, then they should see the whole thing through. So, for every whitey that is allowed into a stadium, 9 blacks should first enter before the next whitey goes in.

Lets see who ran out of money first and have to dump this demographics rubbish.

I have already heard that some advertisers said that the Springboks are not a brand worth spending their money on. Good on them. 

RC
Rassie Coach of the YearRookie31 posts
04 Dec 2015, 13:00
#25
04 Dec 2015, 13:00#25
 Plum, how on earth can you say that apartheid is to be blamed for a Coetzee as coach?

What apartheid was there after 1994? - 21 years ago!!!.

What apartheid were there in rugby after say 1980? - or even 1977 when all official apartheid in sport was abolished? It was the ANC who said "No normal sport in an abnormal society" and kept on burning schools with their slogan "No education before liberation"

The Basil D'Olivera incident happened in 1969!


Even better. What Apartheid were there in the late 1800s?
Armien 'Krom' Hendricks was a South African cricketer. Hendricks, a Cape Malay, was considered the fastest bowler in South Africa in the 1890s.[1] He suffered from the racial segregation in South Africa throughout his career, particularly in a much publicised prevention of him touring England in 1894. He instead made gradually reduced appearances in South African domestic cricket.

Hendricks played in a Combined Malay XI against Walter Read's touring England team on 2 March 1892,[3] where he took four wickets for 50 runs. He also batted at six, making eight and five.[4] He was described by Test cricketers George Rowe and Bonnor Middleton as "one of the fastest bowlers they had witnessed".[5] His wickets were not included in the tour averages, however he "earned the published respect of the visitors as the fastest, most challenging legitimate bowler in South Africa, one whom batsmen were keen to avoid."[3] He was singled out by Read as being "central to any SA side that might be selected to tour England" and many white members of the South African Cricket Association and local newspapers advocated for his inclusion in the South African team to tour England in 1894.[6]

Transvaal and Western Province both called for Hendricks' inclusion in an 1894 tour of England. Walter Read said that if they were to send one player on the tour, to send Hendricks.[2] However, political pressure from the Prime Minister of the Cape ColonyCecil Rhodes, saw the head of cricket in South Africa, Sir William Milton leave Hendricks out of the South African touring team because of his race. The official decision was ruled as it was seen to be "impolitic to include him in the team."[3] Harry Cadwallader, secretary of SACA, suggested Hendricks' travel on tour as a baggage master, an offer Hendricks' publicly refused. Augustus Bernard Tancred made a statement alluding that Hendricks' would never be treated equally if he did travel.[3]

Hendricks was never selected to play for his national team,[1] and the media used Hendricks' case as an illustration of the need for racial segregation.[3]South African first-class cricketer and historian André Odendaal described Hendricks' exclusion as "entrench[ing] segregation in South African cricket and confirm[ing] that the English political and sports establishments were responsible for this."[6][7]


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Dec 2015, 14:49
#26
04 Dec 2015, 14:49#26


Meyer was utterly useless. His reliance on a bunch of washed up has beens cost him. Saying he tried all the youngsters is a load of crap. Its one thing trying a youngster but it’s another thing showing faith and investment in them.


 


The only youngsters he has shown faith in are Etzebeth and Willie and to a lesser extent Pollard and Coetzee. For the rest he has relied on JP, Habana, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, Beast, Bismark, Strauss, Jannie, Flip, Matfield, Louw, Alberts, Schalk and Vermeulen.


 


De Allende and Kriel ended up in the side through default, he wanted Jean and Fourie as his centres. Same can be said of Lood at lock.


 


Had this fool invested in the likes of Kolbe, de Allende, Kriel, Serfontein at 12, Faf de Klerk, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Lood, Willemse, du Plessis, Coetzee, Jaco Kriel and the likes at least 2 seasons back, we would have had a far more competitive Bok side than the sad excuse we have witnessed in the past 2 forgettable years.


 


Meyer threw in the towel because the public saw through his frailties. He sold Bok rugby short in every way. For the most, his choice of players were not even the 3rd best in their respective positions.


 


Thank fuck we never have to endure another test under this incompetent fool. How on earth given the talent we have at our disposal, could he get it so wrong?


 


 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Dec 2015, 15:06
#27
04 Dec 2015, 15:06#27
 Oops...I can't make that tackle....I'm there on default. There goes Kaino . Now if only HM had held my hand, I would have made that tackle.
RC
Rassie Coach of the YearRookie31 posts
04 Dec 2015, 19:01
#28
04 Dec 2015, 19:01#28
 http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/new-springbok-coach-has-free-reign-but-20151204New Springbok coach has free reign, but..

Cape Town - Whoever the next Springbok coach is will enter the job knowing that making strides in transformation is his - or her - primary mandate. 

Anything less than winning a Rugby World Cup is considered a failure by the South African Rugby Union (SARU), but the implication from president Oregan Hoskins on Friday was that performance will fall behind transformation on South African rugby's list of priorities over the next four years. 

"Whoever wants to apply for the job needs to know that transformation is going to be on top of his agenda, or else he shouldn’t apply," Hoskins said.


BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
04 Dec 2015, 19:29
#29
04 Dec 2015, 19:29#29
 I watch on average 4 live Bok games a year. That will become zero if the ANC are selecting the side. It has been 8 years since I purchased a Bok jersey as we now seem to put a flower on it and hide the once proud Bok away. It is not much but I can take my cash somewhere else.Glad I no longer have to live under the cloud or incompetence that is the ANC.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Dec 2015, 20:08
#30
04 Dec 2015, 20:08#30
 Mike as i said, get yourslef interested in another sport. We are doomed it would appear. Pick a transformed  side and we could sink out of the top ten. No thanks if i can see our team selected even more on colour I am sticking with tennis and golf.
I t is difficult to be optimistic about our rugby or our country.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Dec 2015, 20:57
#31
04 Dec 2015, 20:57#31
Sad stuff. If I was the Beast or Habana or any of the many Boks of color who have got there on merit...this would really be insulting. Hoskins is beneath contempt.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Dec 2015, 20:58
#32
04 Dec 2015, 20:58#32
 
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
04 Dec 2015, 22:23
#33
04 Dec 2015, 22:23#33

1
  • (1)
  • New Zealand
  • NZL
96.10
    2
    • (2)
    • Australia
    • AUS
    89.33
      3
      • (3)
      • South Africa
      • RSA
      87.66

        Take a good long look - this may very well be the last time we are ranked top three. 
        The top two knocks on Meyer by the haters: 1) player selection, 2) style of play.
        Under Coetzee, a transformation coach with a transformation mandate - what can we expect for player selection as he follows through on that mandate? Put it this way, if he had been coach the past four years then the best young talent - LeRoux, Pollard, Kriel, DeAllende, Lood, Kitshoff, Malherbe - would have probably been overlooked for their transformation counterpart. Expect that approach going forward, if it is not retroactively applied to those positions. SARU with their discriminatory policies will only cause the migration of young talent to accelerate and it will happen at younger ages where kids go from high school to play on scholarship at foreign colleges/universities and meet their residency requirements by the time they graduate.

        As for style of play - a Jake White disciple. Backline coach of the Boks 2004 - 2007 (Eddie Jones had to be brought in as a consultant to fill the gaps), Stormers coach 2010 - 2015 where the emphasis was on territory and defence and Stormers were always near or at the bottom of the S15 in tries scored. Word is he's surrounding himself with assistants that were his old mates from his years at the Stormers so don't expect anything to change, particularly when it was a largely successful approach.


        Thought you hated life with Meyer as the head coach?, its about to get a lot worse for you then I'm afraid. 

        PL
        PlumCaptain21,007 posts
        04 Dec 2015, 22:34
        #34
        04 Dec 2015, 22:34#34
         @ Blikkies.

        So, had it not been for apartheid, we would not have a need for transformation. The pool of coaches of colour would be larger and if it happened that the Boks in 2016 got a Black/Coloured/Indian coach, that coach would have been picked form a larger talent base and thus probably be better than Coetzee.

        I believe we are actually very lucky that the coloured population are still interested in Rugby today.

        And i know it sucks to hear, but a lot of young whites feel the effects of apartheid heavily. As an example, BEE. Maybe the ANC do play the apartheid card way too often. But Apartheid was the proverbial first stone. And when you throw the first punch, you gotta knock him out because you can expect to get just one back. He can choose how many he wants to land on your chin after that.

        In the UK some time back there were court cases going on where the great great grandchildren of former slaves were suing the government for slavery and winning. Think we'll see the end to apartheid guilt in our lifetimes? Nah mate.

        That's what i'm talking about Blikkies. Anyway, i love my country and it's people. I do well here, despite BEE. Oh, wait, i got fokken zero love for Beeno. He can suck it!
        MO
        MozartCaptain49,914 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 04:22
        #35
        05 Dec 2015, 04:22#35
         The ABs beat 20  tackles in the RWC semi. The Boks beat three one by Pollard and two tractoring innocuous efforts by Allende.
        That shocking difference may have some coaching causes, but our guys can't beat tackles...in part because our back line is at half pace. You don't have to be coached to accelerate the line...its school boy stuff.
        CL
        clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 04:51
        #36
        05 Dec 2015, 04:51#36
         mozart
        You are losing it again.  The Boks did not pass balls to their backline - the majpority of balls passed were back to forwards - how can backline players beat tackles when they rarely see the ball and when they did see it - they were already surrounded by defenders?
         
        CL
        CleanCutPro9,905 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 07:24
        #37
        05 Dec 2015, 07:24#37
         
        Agreed BokBF.

        The enforced "transformation" is the last nail in the Bok coffin for me.

        They've tampered with everything that is Bok. From systematically moving the Bok emblem to the sleeve and having a meaningless plant take it's place. Why the boys place their hands on their chests when singing their anthem is beyond me.

        The black folk of this country will now be pleased as they have finally managed to wheedle their way into what once was precious. It always amazes me how they have this uncanny knack to turn everything they touch into sh!t.

        It's a gift. Who can argue that!

        They've gotten used to cheering for losers like Bafana Bafana and the national cricket team. Zuma's Goats have been showing signs of decline over the last few decades and will now join their ranks as confirmed losers.

        Sadly we'll see white folk still supporting the Goats and the constant tampering ... as they do the Proteas.

        It would be so awesome to send a message to these fckers with empty stadiums at every test match.

        Let's see them fill the stadiums up with the so called black masses they keep telling us about.

        Truly a sad day.


        SA
        Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 11:21
        #38
        05 Dec 2015, 11:21#38
        Yeah useless Meyer should have held Vic s hand when he lost us the semi having a penalty turned over for being utterly stupid.
        So much for experience when it matters. Useless Vic threw that card out the window 
        SA
        Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 11:22
        #39
        05 Dec 2015, 11:22#39
        Hoskins has always been a little pathetic fairy. So after over 20 years of freedom for all this fucking idiot is still talking transformation.
        DB
        DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
        05 Dec 2015, 13:16
        #40
        05 Dec 2015, 13:16#40
         Boks will  be fine...that is, sill continuing in the same vein of allmost great...that's more than good enough for the politicians. ..not good enough for me though. FCK THAT!....LETS GET TRULY PRO AND GET A "BARBARIAN LIKE" TEAM GOING!. Picked on merit and challenging the best teams in the world. Call them the "Fck U's" with the middle finger as emblem. 
        ↓ LOAD MORE (page 2 of 2)

        More from Rugby

        More news