Meyer to return to drawing board?; Planet Rugby

Where to from here for the Springboks and their under-fire coach Heyneke Meyer after their humiliating Rugby Championship loss to Argentina?

Meyer is at the proverbial crossroads with just over a month left before the start of the Rugby World Cup.

South Africa's performance in their first-ever defeat to Argentina means the Boks are the closest yet to hitting rock bottom during Meyer's tenure.

The defeat had dire consequences for the two-time World Cup winners as it meant that Argentina leapfrogged them on the final Rugby Championship table in to third place.

Although Meyer tried to put on a brave face after the match, he must be wondering if he is on the right path with the global showpiece just around the corner.

He has to go back to the drawing board and question himself on some of his tactics and selections.

What was very concerning in the loss to the Pumas is that the Boks were outplayed in areas of play which they usually dominate.

The Boks were poor in the scrums and line-outs and Argentina also won the collisions, and bossed them at the breakdown.

Several players will also be questioning themselves after disappointing performances and don't be surprised if some experienced players miss out on World Cup selection.

And to make matters worse, stalwarts like captain Jean de Villiers, Marcell Coetzee and Willie le Roux suffered injuries which is the last thing the coach wanted so close to the World Cup.

To be honest, De Villiers' injury is a blessing in disguise. Make no mistake, he is one of the greatest Springboks of the modern era and one of the best leaders currently in the game, but I think he was been rushed back to soon.

Damian de Allende and Jesse Kriel were blossoming into a fine midfield combination and with hindsight Meyer will admit that it was a mistake to break up that partnership.

Meyer has been villified by Bok supporters in South Africa after Saturday's loss to Argentina and it will be interesting to see how he reacts to his predicament.

Meyer's current situation is similar to the one which his predecessor, Peter de Villiers, found himself in 2008.

After taking over the reins from Jake White as the Bok coach, De Villiers was booed at a Test in Durban when his side lost to the Wallabies.

This after the new coach tried to introduce a more expansive style of play. De Villiers saw the error in his ways and eventually reverted to the Boks' traditional conservative game-plan.

The difference between that situation and Meyer's is that De Villiers run of bad results came a few months after he started in his job. Meyer's crisis is with the World Cup around the corner.

By David Skippers

A bad game preceded by 3 loses - not good. He can't make drastic changes at this point - one month out from the RWC - but could do a better job in selecting the bench & decisions on when to use bench players. That should result in some improvements, he needs to kick a few butts & this may mean benching a few complacent or poorly performing players.

 The result means the Boks have now lost four consecutive Tests to different countries for the first time since 1965.  
This is a damming statistic for Meyer

Peter did not revert to a traditional Bok gameplan. He reverted to a damage limitation plan, that after Plum worked on the breakdown for the Boks and actually encouraged Peter to select Brussow. The entire Bok gameplan after the screw up "moon rugby" (Eddie Jones said it first) can be summed up thus: 10-12, 11 cleans ruck. 9 box kick, wings in pursuit. 6 attacks breakdown, penalty. One off runners off 9. Nothing like Jake's Boks, hence why we only scored two tries in the 2011 Tri Nations, and both were by hookers. 2010 was scarcely any better. So once again journo, you failed to do your job. And Meyer's mistake was to drop Kriel instead of Damian for Jean. Damian has had another poor season at all levels and should have been dropped. Playing with two players out off position at centre who can neither attack nor defend was never going to work. 

Their is not much he can do except hope that the injured players recover in time so that he chooses the best available team. 
The players just back from injury need game time. The Boks may need to play some games before the World Cup for players just back form injury. 
Vermeulen and Fourie Dupreez are being missed- probably the 2 key players in the team in terms of implementing the game plan. 
Jean is out- so the Delande and Kriel should be the starting centres. 

 The back to the drawing board is a real problem.  Back is the norm that always characterized Meyer's method of team selection,  back to 2007 and if there is any missing links back to 2011,
So what is different now - I would say nothing at all.  Who can he choose that he has not already chosen,  How about convincing Percy Montgomery to come back and the same for James Small and Pienaar and Williams and whomsoever played in the 2003 WC. 
This is the merry world of "back to the future" you know.
The drawing board has been covered with has-beens and never-has-beens, there is no room for anything else.  So what Meyer is likely to come up is the real poorest of the poorest in SA rugby.   He should contact Mozart and DF - they would find the dregs for him alright.
Joking aside - one wonders what Meyer will come up next?   I am not putting any money on any sensible changes - that would be totally uncharacteristic and unexpected.  
   

It will be a good test not having Willie Leroux creating things from the back and see how expansive the Boks can be without him. 
Lambie might get a starting run at 10 as Pollard has started all matches. Lambie's tactical kicking game is slightly better than Pollard. 
Though without Le Roux Lambie may get a run a fullback instead. 

For next weekend he is going to have to try find a tighthead that can scrum. Maybe Thomas Dutoit or some other youngster as the cur

This man actually has material published by a web site....amazing. All he provides is warmed up tripe. The Boks had very competitive matches against the two biggest competitors and were unlucky in both games. 

Another way of looking at it is our starters outplayed the Oz/NZ starters only for the bench to be outplayed in turn. So fix the bench and fix the problems which emerged yesterday. Don't panic.

 

 SB
Thomas is probably better than Jannie, Koch and Van der Merwe, so that would help a lot.  That is not the only problem - we need to find another loosehead as well, but there are some hope for Kitshoff and Beast be the chosen two.  Trust Beast - he may improve.   There is some hope for the props - there is none for the loosies.
What he has left on the list is just not any good in ball protection and recovery - a serious deficiency yesterday.   If you ask Alberts what ball protection means he will probably say he did not buy a cover - where can he buy one.  He would also think that ball recovery is what happens in outer space.  Kolisi and Mohoje will just say "UH" and develop a blank  expression.   Brussow was just muscled out yesterday.  So where to now?  I do not know - but neither of the four has a snowballs hope in hell to make a positive contribution.  If I was Meyer I would look elsewhere for a solution.          I think Meyer's hand will be forced to play Lambie - probably at flyhalf - but maybe at full back.  His problem is he has too many duds in the squad and he will not think with an open mind about what to do.  We need another player at home in both the flyhalf and full back positions. And Fransie is NOT the answer - he has too many faults - but one of the worst at full back is the fact that he is speed-deficient, a very slow cart-horse
The other position where there is a huge hole in the squad is on the wing.  I would rather look elsewhere to find an established wing and my choice would be Senatla, Skoshan or Combrinck.
Matter of fact my preferred team for Saturday would be the following:-
15  Lambie, 14 One of Senatla/Shoshan/Combrinck, 13 Kriel, 12 De Allende, 11 Habana, 10  Pollard, 9 Reinach, 8  Burger, 7 Labuschagne, 6 Kriel, 5 De Jager, 4  Etzebeth, 3  Malherbe, 2 Strauss, 1 Kitshoff
16  Du Plessis, 17  Nyakane, 18  Du Toit, 19 Du Toit, 20 Kolisi, 21 De Klerk, 22 Goosen, 23 Serfontein.   

     

Lambie's tactical kicking is almost as bad as his passing game. It's not like he is the next De Waal, nothing stands out whatsoever, but yes, we have defensive problems, so why not allow them route one ball right through the seam, that ought to work, especially given that 1 out of a dozen kicks might work.
I might actually watch the next test if that happens. Will have the popcorn ready and laugh myself into a stupor.

 There is no need to panic?  Meyer made two changes to the team and one positional change and the wheels came off.   The result not even a half-decent performance - so nothing to worry about?  
Lost four tests in a row - the last time that happened before the past fiascos was in 1965 -  so nothing to worry about?   
I am LMAO. 

 There is no need to panic?  Meyer made two changes to the team and one positional change and the wheels came off.   The result not even a half-decent performance - so nothing to worry about?  
Lost four tests in a row - the last time that happened before the past fiascos was in 1965 -  so nothing to worry about?   
I am LMAO. 

 That post was so stupid the submit button did a double take! LoOoOoOoOoOoL!!!!!!!!!!!

SELDOM Have I ever seen such tripe being written by so many. Moz thankfully has made the point I made. The Boks should have beaten oz and nz. Those sides are the measure not the Argies!!!! Boks were not up for the game. Could the half bakes oaks please get a grip. the bleating are an embarrassment! Hahahahaha

I predicted trouble. 12-13 was unbalanced and minus Jannie it was inevitable that we'd lose the scrum battle. Lets face it, Argentina and Italy are the most physical forwards in world rugby right now.  We haven't out muscled either one up front most of the past fifteen years. Usually our superior conditioning makes the difference. Remember that Italian side that nearly beat New Zealand in New Zealand? Argentina likewise are no pushovers. To play them with that backline was disrespectful, to have that bench was even worse. Yes we should have beaten New Zealand, but got lucky against Australia. Shore up the defence! Select a proper 12 and bring back our power carriers Alberts and Flip. Get back to what we do best, the way we do it.

 Spot on...the fans don't see what power players like Flip and Alberts do to win the battle on the ground. The last time we dominated the collisions was against France in Nov2013... Flip, Eben, Alberts, Louw, Vermeulen

 Power players like Flip and Alberts normally is so unproductive their impact on games is unproductive.  This type of comment is BS and that is factual as well.  
Why have we not dominated on the ground since November 2013?   Easy answer another player you supported - the famous Victor Matfield, who reduced our Tight 5 to a Tight 4 came on board.   I know the problem is that the idea  to play the gruntless Matfield and then get a loosie to try and off-set that deficiency.  Has never worked and will never work.  You have half a lock on the field and half a loosie and effectively have a team of 14 players on the field of play.
Seriously now are you joking or not?     

I told you as soon as Coetzee met a power pack he would disappear. Effort doesn't compensate for sheer strength. We need at least one power loosie to have any chance against the top teams. Your fanciful ideas of picking players like Coetzee and Lappies is the dead end city.
 

The pack lays the foundation. This is such a deeply embedded fact that even a third tier nation with an emphasis on their forwards can completely stall even the best first tier nations. So in short, we came into a gun fight wearing mittens. Even with our big ball-carriers this would have been a very tough fight. When will the penny finally drop? 

 I would rather have a hardworking player than a low-production unit invisible and doing zilch 80% of matches.  Flippie was invisible 100% of the time when he came off the bench  in his last game and Alberts is near the same in all his games.  If your power=players come to the party and become productive in performance - then fine, but not with the two players you now advocate.  Put the gruntless Mayfield in as well and it would be a serious joke.   The poor props will get the blame by the unthinking - while Matfield and the two others will go off scottfree if Meyer is stupid enough to even play them. 

Coetzee has been outstanding as has Burger regardless of what happened on.Saturday They with Vermuelen at 7 will be excellent. Coetzee at114 kg is strong nd hard working. Brussouw cant cut it. Big loozies abound. Jaque Du Plessis (a meyer selection blunder to leave out) Elstadt and Rhodes. Louw is also a good player. Alberts is a serial loafer. Bring Willemse into the mix. Eben Lood, Willemse Du Yoit and Flip. No country has that kind of lock depth. The only small loosie I would contemplate is Kriel. Better than hooper. Not playing Faf has also bwen another blunder. Meyer has been hindered by injuries but his long term planning has not been quite up to scratch.

Weight does not equate to strength. Genuine strength with weight in a sport won through collisions is an entirely different matter. Coetzee can be effective. I like his mobility and handling, he defends okay, but he is not a powerful loosie. Hougaard even flung him aside when the Bulls met the Sharks in last years opener. Brussow is stronger than Coetzee and better in just about every other facet of play. 
Alberts is a key generator of momentum, so juch so that you can base your entire gameplan off him. Like it or not, only Flip or Duane can match that. This trio simply must be in the starting XV. We are clearly missing these big ball carriers and breakdown battering rams. The force with which these three hit rucks makes it virtually impossible for any other team on the planet to compete. 
Against Australia our ball carries were largely negated, same against New Zealand. We need to fix this now. Faf is not a solution, and neither is Willemse. They have lots of potential, but both are too raw for test rugby. 

 DF
When was the ball carries of Flippie or Alberts ever effective?  I cannot remember a single game in which it happened - either on test level or Super 15.  The big battering ram Alberts never gets to breakdown points and mauls in time to play a role in anything like you write so fluently  about.  The English language allows for flowery praise songs and you are an expert in that.     

 
Funny how often Meyer returns to the "drawing board" ... in truth it seems he's never left it.

Thomas Du Toit is an excellent loosehead. He should have taken the tired Beast's spot long ago. Beast is no longer a test player.  I would drop him with immediate effect

Trevor is an excellent prop and a powerful scrummager. Chalk him up at 3 and at least we'll have a front row that stands it's ground against the best in the world.

Koch, Kithoff, Dreier, Redlinghuyse are all solid props to draw nearer. Marcell would also be in the mix.

Alberts doesn't play to the ball. He isn't one for ground work. He's a battering ram and a very effective ball carrier when he has the ball in hand.

Problem is his work rate and the lack of pace needed to carry him across the field. Often you'll find him arriving too damn late to the breakdown point to be effective.

Throw in the fact that he's been injured most of the year and what you have is no go zone.

Forget about Alberts.

My Bok three would be Vermeulen, Kriel and Labuschagne.

I also thought Potgieter had a great season this year and would give him a proper look instead of soothing my conscience with a quick peek and dismissal.

The locks are a no brainer ... Etsebeth, PSDT and obviously Willemse.

Forget about the ponderous Lood. He is seriously void of any grey matter ... much like our Mozart.

Faff should take the 9 jersey with immediate effect. It's a pity that Meyer let Kockett slip through his fingers. Just another stuff up from our ignorant, arrogant coach.

Lambie as our starting 10. He's a much better tactician than the easily flustered Pollard ... has a better pass, a better kicking game and stands nice and flat. Throw in his superior defensive game and what you have is a world beater.

Instead of fcking him around as Meyer has over the last few years ... giving him scraps of game time to survive on, he should have left him at 10 and what we would have had right now is a confident general at the helm.

The center pair of De Allende and Kriel should remain as is. Vorster should be brought into the mix immediately. I also like Odendaal.

Habana is becoming a little long in the tooth and hasn't had a good showing at test level for quite some time now. I'd keep hin the mix with a stern talking to. "Shape up or ship out"

I would bring HouGat into the mix as well ... obviously with the understanding that he's there to play wing and nothing else ... I also like Senatla, Combrinck and think that players like Pat Howard and Van Wyk should have been given a proper look. The braided Skosan from the Lions i s also one to consider.

I would draw Joe Petersen in a little closer as a potential full back and may push Le Roux to wing. Le Roux is reckless at times and should be made to understand that he needs to think a little better on the field ... or else.

There's so much young talent to select from it's scary.

A young squad should have been worked on right from the onset and what we would have had is a team of players with 40 test caps each to challenge the world with.

Instead we have pensioners coming back trying to improve our world ranking of 5th ...

Laughable.

 

 CC
What baffled me is that Mozart and DF is constantly punting the older players like Alberts and Morne as the solution to our problems.  Another one of their favourites is Francois steyn - who matured early but also petered out early.   
Meyer used the older players irrespective of the need for team building landing us in the present match and he was enthusiastically supported by the two members mentioned.  Even now they cannot see the voids in the squad and pretend everything is fine.  They glorify their favourites who played in the last three tests and even more so in those cases that they did  not play.  
There problem is a demonizing campaign aimed at the players posing a thread to the selection of their favourites and writing fairy tales about how wonderful the players they support are.  
What is not realized is that the selection of players for the WC Squad is in an unholy mess as a result of Meyers absolute lack of rugby acumen in building a squad over the past few years.   He failed to do that and we are still sitting with a residue of non-performing donkeys in the present squad.    

Meyer started with nothing and went to youth. It failed, the team needs more balance. Right now the oldest part of the team is potentially the pack, and rightly so. I select players in terms of their skill set and its applicability to a specific plan. Morné gives you more options and Pollard's penchant for solo running has already exposed a need for a calmer distributor who can play a more measured game. The only option for South Africa is Morné . Frans offers us power and solidity, important for the success of your 13. 12 glues the midfield defence. We don't need a fleet footed individual we need power that can create space. Damian cannot create space. I couldn't give a damn about age. I operate under the mantra of "What have you done for me lately". If you want sustained success you pick the best and phase in youth. Right now our next gen options are weak, as seen in being dominated in Super rugby consistently. Every word I have said about Damian, Lambie and the popular picks has been irrefutable. When I press the critics for answers, they are bereft of these supposedly obvious facts that "everybody knows". Telling me everybody knows does mean it's right, or that you know anything! All year, no answers. 

I post occasionally, mostly reading the comments here and trying to make sense of the arguments on both sides. I simply cannot take it anymore.How can you possibly believe that Alberts, Morne, Frans and others like them are the answer for the Springboks??? What have any of these so called hero's done in any for of the game of late. I would have Frans and Alberts back tomorrow if I was guaranteed they would bring their best. WTF.We can't even blame our terrible showing on the "Quota". Meyer is a FU*W*T AND THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT!!

 
Morne gives us more options in doing what?  never attacking the gain line - standing deep in the pocket and mostly aimless and inaccurate kicks?
 Frans offering us power and solidity?  By virtually never making line breaks and rarely beating defenders? Being a defending leak by  a distance over other centers?
Alberts by being the lowest work rate player in SA in any franchise at 7 - by virtually never getting to breakdown points and by the time he gets there the next breakdown 30 meters away is already in progress -  by making minimal tacklers and missing too many attempted tackles - by rarely carrying balls and making limited  progress in such carries?
Victor by being totally useless in the Tight 5 - mostly standing around in the backline hoping tackles come his way - by becoming less and less productive in line-outs?
The praise songs are fairy tales - reality hard and unforgiving.  The reality is also that the players are all way past their sell-by dates - they might have been  good years ago - they are not even a shadow of what they were at present.
LMAO - you are indeed funny.        

What Meyer should do is resign for he is F  U  C  K  I  N  G useless - something I have been saying for years. Cant select and cant give direction.