Moz my counter on your JJ nonsense

Problem is Moz, your takes are incorrect.......for JJ would not have been turned over had Kolisi cleared Read out. But more to the point, the Boks intended to attack at that point given both Morne and Jean passed him the ball. Do you think they intended him to just run into touch when Morne could have kicked it out instead. Fact is Jean wanted to attack and JJ did a good job by running the scissor, beating Cruden and Nonu to set the ball up.

JJ did NOT overrun a pass, Morne passed behind him and JJ was NOT in front of Morne

JJ missed Barrett AFTER Jean and then Morne missed him, not to mention Kirchner missing him after JJ did on while covering.......so how the hell do you conclude that JJ cost the try given Barrett was in fact Morne's man, the inside defender   

Boklogic, I know you are thick but I don't ever recall eliciting Rooineks support to take on your rugby brain!!!

So in your opinion, given you proclaim to still play the game, do you score or set up a try every time you make a break, if you ever do!!?

Lets take the beating of Savea for instance and putting Willie into space.......was that not a try scoring opportunity that Morne botched up going over the line huh?

Try again and try add some weight to the shit you talk  

Mozart

Agree - Kolisi was nowhere  near Read and he got run over by Messam when he tried to tackle him - like he was nowhere as well.

For the rest he was nowhere for 80%  of the time he spent on the field of play - but do not blame him only for that one - since he equalled the performances of Louw and Vermeulen wider out and Alberts was only noticeable 10%  of the time.

The AB loosies played a game covering the whole field of play - ours managed to cover 10% of  the field of play.

However, to blame Engelbrecht alone for the so-called turnover and for the Barrett tackle is ingenious.   In the first case Steyn played the idiots game and did not make a relieving  kick he should have done virtually on half time.   Naas himself said it was idiotic - so I am not alone in that one.

You blame Engelbrecht for the loss - but he is only third of the list of players to be blamed.   The real catalogue is -

1    Morne Steyn - missed  tackles,  direct result 2 tries - idiotic play,  1 try - partially responsible - 1 try (Barrettt);

2    Willem Alberts - missed tackle - one try - idiotic clumsiness - 1 try (Messam)

3    JJ Engelbrecht - missed tackle 1 try  (Barrett) - knocking ball on and indirectly responsible for another try (Messam - second try). 

 Ingenious or ingenuous?  You see I happen to agree Alberts bought the Messam try and Morne missed Barrett. It's obvious you only have to look at the tape.

But JJ was responsible for the halftime try (turnover and missed tackle on Nonu), did botch a great attacking chance by overrunning the ball and was the player who made best contact with Barrett before he scored. That's also obvious.

Mozart

First of all - Morne missed a tackle on Ben Smith before he scored his try after Alberts buggered up first.   Morne kicked out the ball which led to Messam's try - even Naas said it was stupid not to.   Morne was instructed by Meyer to pass more often and kicked less - but in his own 22 when the siren was about to sound the end of the first half - that really showed he is robotic with clueless ball sense.   Aside of that he also missed the tackle on Read when he scored his try.   Really a complete hash if ever there was one.

I accept that Alberts was responsible for missing the tackle on Read - but he also fell over his own feet flat on his face  and failed to recover the ball after Aaron Smith was tackled - he was in the best position to do so being nearest to the tackled player.   But Alberts is notorious for clumsiness - even Tomas mentioned it pertinently  previously - and incapable of breakdown ball recovery at all. First  Messam try.

I do blame Engelbrecht for the Barrett try and held him partially responsible for the Messam second try - so he is third on the list of match losers.

The point is, we know what Alberts can do and he can put in crushing hits. Morne is among the top three goal kickers on the planet. The guy who is new is JJ and the question with him is whether he can be defensively sound. If the answer to that is yes, his attacking potential  will give him the nod in spite of his poor judgement at times. Based on the RC though, that question remains unanswered, he has been cul pable in tries any defensively competent 13 should have stopped. And that's the truth of it.

Mozart

To an extent I agree with you - but you cannot have one-dimensional players in a tam that do well things like kicking at goal - and bigger up badly for the rest.   Alberts make some good tackles - but far too few in any given match and that is as far as his playing capacity goes.  

Engelbrecht to my mind is really a wing that never really adjusted to center.   He has defensive problems - I grant you that.   What bothers me is that he sometimes vanish from sight in matches and when doing so he is poor - and very poor at that.   For instance he was not a factor at all in Saturdays game between the Cheetahs and the Bulls.

I am not "married" to the idea that Engelbrecht shall be our 13 in future - hence my comments that we should see what happens in Super 15 next year.   What worries me also is that the French and Welsh have very good centers and they might just beat his defence as well.  

 Saffex, Juan De Jongh beat Daniel and Coetzee in last years Currie Cup final and he finished the try off. Should he be the Bok centre?

You just talk shit man! Dont worry what I do when I make breaks on the rugby field. The difference between me and JJ is a whole lot of money and international status. I dont get paid to do what JJ "should" be doing but I reckon if I got fit enough I could do what he does. I could demonstrate absolutely no ideas on attack and can certainly miss tackles on guys as slight as Barrett.

Open you eyes and see what is in front of you, not what you conjure up in your rugby-free brain! The team you coach must be getting dicked every game as you are coaching a 7's style. 1 miss tackle and the opposition team is under the poles because its no one elses job to make the tackle except the inside man! ha ha laughable stuff really.

Barrett ran right into JJ. Slap bang. He shielded the ball with 2 hands, closed his eyes and braced for contact. To his surprise, Moses parted the rugby field and he had a free run. How come all these debates include JJ. Bosch and Barrett try. It wasn't Jannie and Jean or Jannie and Habana. It is always JJ involved. The other 2 mentioned dont fuck things up!

JJ can run like the wind but thats where it ends. I didn't know pace was enough to be a Bok centre. Would JJ make the All Blacks team?? Barrett cant tackle for shit but he may let a try in but he will score you 3! JJ just lets them in! Face it, your boys JJ and Jantjies are touch rugby players!

 boklogic

I know there are some fans who see something in Juan de Jongh - but what I have seen the further away he is from Springbok selection - the better it would be for he Springboks.

There are a number of reasons for that.   During the whole of 2011 he scored two tries on CC and Super 15 level - he increased that to 3 tries in Super 15 and CC in 3012 - two in Super 15 and the CC final try.   This year he was not any better in attacking play.   That shows that from an attacking perspective he is harmless and a very marginal selection on Super 15 level.   Nobody expect from a player to score a try each game he played in but to play about 48 Super 15 matches and 12 CC matches - the number of  tries scored by him or even try-assists - where he contributed none - is way below par.    At least Engelbrecht has scored some test tries - he has not had any from 2o11 to date.   The one excellent opportunity  he had in the Wallabies test last here he buggered up completely.

In 2012 he had come from the bench once - against the Wallabies and it ws a fiasco.  He played in two tests (Murrayfield and Twickenham) and in both tests he did zero = matter of fact he had in the Twickenham the largest number of zeroes I have ever seen in the ESPN stats system on games.    In effect he made up the numbers on the Springbok team sheet - nothing more.

De Jongh started off with the reputation that he is a good defender - but this year in Super 15 he destroyed to my mind his reputation  for defence completely.   He missed 25% of all attempted tackles - which is a very high percentage and totally unacceptable.   Engelbrecht missed 16% - also too high - but not a patch of what De Jongh missed.

Problem is that I think the opposition found him out and his tackling ability was countered.   De Jongh is physically very small -  he used to way 84 kgs - and now claims his weight is 87 kgs.   With the much bigger and stronger players nowadays - he is too weak to contain them and when he is up against a good tackler - they often enough tackle him back.   One thing  positive though he used to knock on more balls than he did in 2013 and possession loss after tackles also declined this year.

Be it as it may - I said earlier that Engelbrecht - with his deficiencies - is still our best  option - De Jongh has way too many negatives to be selected.     

Van

Whether you like it or not - the sooner Morne vanish from the Springbok team - the better the Springbok backline will be.  He is robotic without any ball sense whatsoever.

Why the hell did he not make a relieving kick in his 22 - when the siren was about to call the end of the first half?   Because Meyer told him to stand flatter in the channel and pass the ball more and kick less.   So he passed the ball and gave Naas a fit about senseless play.

He missed tackles like he is paid to miss them  and in the end he is basically responsible for the loss of the Springboks in the Ellis Park test.   The idiotic non-kick and the missed tackles resulted in four of the five AB tries.  

You and Saffex can argue till you are white in the face - but Morne if he made even a slight effort - was in position to tackle Barrett - but like in all the other tackles he missed - the attempts were feeble and useless.

The AB's should put up a monument of Morne - in every test he played against them - he more than any other player - buggers up the efforts of the Springboks. 

 That is correct. Jean got ahead of himself, Morne was nowhere and fucked it up but JJ became the best placed to make the tackle. He was not behind Barrett when they first met. He ended up behine Barrett as he was beaten like he was not there with his revolving door defence.

My picture clearly showed JJ in PERFECT position to tackle low. He does not like to tackle low..That is clear and is a massive problem..

Frans Steyn needs to get back to his best!!

I see the inbred Jungle Bunny's still going on about JJ.

Give it a rest will ya.

No matter how many times you twist the facts regarding “Jinking” JJ, it won’t change the general perception of the boy.  You’re the only one (as usual) singing his praises.   The rest of us see him for what he is … useless … not a center to begin with … and definitely not Bok material … ok, Stupid??

Now run along and go get your fat obese prop of a son another plate of doughnuts, before he tears another hammie reaching for the spiced up buffalo wings.

How is he by the way???

Van

I am Afrikaans speaklng - but basically bilingual - as well.  Grew up in the Southern Cape and other members of my family never spoke English - even though they understood English.

Basically I think that this website has members all over the world - a substantial number of whom cannot understand Afrikaans at all - I normally use only English on this site.  The issue is that foreign members - make this site very interesting, since there are more variations in discussion.

I took Saffex to task about his attitude about Afrikaans - and he stated clearly that he just do not understand the language well enough to understand it properly and that he has left SA in the early 1990's and lost contact with what he used to know.   I met him in London - when I went to watch the Springbok tests against the England and Scotland and he really is a nice person to know.

That does not mean that I do agree with his rugby views on many issues - fact is we disagree strongly on a lot of them.   He are often insulting when you disagree with him - but that does not constitute anything important  insofar as I am concerned.

As I said there are many members from other countries - even Argentina - on this site - you will get more pleasure to post your views in English on the site and see how they respond as well.   Hope you find this contribution as reasonable.

You seem to be a Morne fan - and from what I have written - you must know that I am anything but.  S o you can go for me as well. 

Van

I agree with you on the above.

Just forget about Ceradyne please - he really is a joke and a sh!t stirrer.   Bad news that one.   He is ignorant beyond belief - even if h e tries to sound otherwise. The only member I ultimately treat with richly deserved contempt is Ceradyne - also known as "windpomp" or really fart smell.

Look - there is every chance that I will differ from you on many points in future - but I generally do not start the personal name slanging attacks - but sometimes respond in kind when personal attacks on me happen.  

I think Meyer has shown some progress as a coach - but would like to see what squad he comes up with for the EOYT.   His selections in some cases are very conservative and he is let down by  players he selects on that basis.. 

 Was not lying about Morne Steyn in the Stade Francais match - his kicking was ineffective - but this is not the topic in this case.   It is not worth while to discuss that issue any further - since you persist with your wicked misineterpretation.

The above topic basically relates to the Ellis Park Test.   Morne was atrociously bad in the test at Ellis Park and no amount of lies on your part will show otherwise.  Windpomp is the name Beeno calls you - my appropriate translation for that one is Fart Smell.

Ceradyne

you accused me of lying previously and you know that yourself.  Anyway start a new thread if you want a further discussion on that issue .   Maybe - just maybe it will dawn on you this threat is about the Ellis Park test - upon which we have not seen yet how you justify Morne's BS performance.  Come now - let us have the joke so we can all laugh about it.

CancerCunt, are you back talking rugby or just yapping at my heels........there is more credit in your yapping, keep it up.

How is Boshoff coming along as our Bok flyhalf.......I see the poor thing has been ousted by Jantjies again, a real 10

Dutchie, I see you are still here blabbering away in Afrikaans, I have given up reading your shit, just do us a favour and piss off, we don't want Afrikaans on this site as it serves to exclude those who don't understand it. I know you are too fucking dom to comprehend this basic concept, so thought it best I pointed it out.

In a nutshell, using Afrikaans is rude - get it?