Mr White's doing alright

Wouldn't you say?

Just like he did with the Sharks and just like he did in Oz.

J ake is a fine coach and only those who struggle with understanding rugby say otherwise. 

The man who invented the modern defence that won us the 2007 and 2019 WCs.

You mean Eddie the guy who master minded the Pom WC final.....hahaha. You are a funny guy Dave.

Puleeze  Eddie didn’t even have his team amped to play....Rassie just followed the Jake playbook......Wales 2019 was England in the finals 2019.....England in the Final was England in the pool 2007.

The template was there.

Jake .....37 wins/17 losses......68.6 % success. ...

Erasmus ....17/8......68.0% success.

And Erasmus had the benefit of a WC year in a two year stint, whereas Jake had much less statistical benefit from the WC which boosts the win ratio.

Without the WC Erasmus’ record was 10/7.....58.8%. White’s record was 62.2% earned over a full four years. There is no doubt Jake had the superior record and it was his defensive innovations....aped by Kneeknocker....that  won the WC.

I like both coaches, Jake less for his whining in the media and he is a bit arrogant. You can't fault Jake as I think he is the best coach in SA that can get the most out of any player.

Rassie is master strategist as well as a team motivator. He knows how to get into the heads of players. 

I'm also happy that we have Nienaaber, but will have to see how ends up as head coach. 

Pity Proudfoot left for the Poms, I thought he was our best scrum coach, even at the stormers. 

But I'm glad Jake is coaching the bulls, hopefully will see some young talent coming through.

Fully agree with you corn, excellent comments

I must say, watching that last episode of "Chasing the Sun" I had tears in my eyes when Rassie had his "Mapimpi" moment.....

I am calling it that for now, because I don't want to spoil it for anyone on here that has not yet seen that last episode.... and it will not be the same if you know when and what is going to be said about that specific incident by Rassie

That specific moment in particular..... I will never ever forget

Chasing the Sun....is this a rugby version of Endless Summer?

Kinda

Saved by Eddie? More like Eddie saved by Jake. Jake's record over Eddie's star-studded Wallabies is 4 to 2 (a minute away from 5 v 1!). Thus Eddie was fired! It's stunning that the Jake bashers are so lacking in their knowledge of Bok rugby that they cannot detect a problem to their argument. That's a 66.7%  win percentage. What's Eddie's record in WC finals without Jake? 

Some coaches just suck.

However, there are always variables involved that we cannot and, most often, do not take them into consideration.

Sure, you can say that genius coach leaves nothing to chance, but in a game with an oval ball, that's just no possible.  

Eddie and Jake are both top tier coaches. 

The difference lay in circumstance and the countless unseen factors which none of us are privy to.

In the end you can look at achievements but my feeling is that the margins are small and the variables endless.

Actually, Jake's record is pretty good. He lost most of his players through injury throughout the season. There hasnt been a Bok injury list that extensive since. He managed to beat the Wallabies and All Blacks with some meagre combinations and come out breaking England's stranglehold and set up 2007 for a fantastic season long before Eddie. He held a full strength All Black side (best of the century) to within a few pints for over 60 minutes with a shadow team, gave a full strength Wallaby side an almighty scare away. Went on an amazing run. Jake didn't need Eddie. He needed Frans, that was the final ignition which turned the Samoan game on its head and got the Boks rolling. There is nothing in any of those games that has Eddie's touch. The blueprint was Jake's. The thing was this: the plastics, such as yourself, didn't think he could do it without Watson, Pretorius et al. Back then, the plastics called Juan a carthorse, Du Preez a talentless bum, none of you saw JP's potential on the wing, or the class of Monty, or the presence and composure of Os. I could go on. In the end, Eddie's big pick was Pienaar at 10. How'd that work out for you? Das Omlett redet zu viel Scheiße; jetzt denkt er ist der Boss 

Mallett at the Stormers.

White at the Bulls.

Akker at the Lions.

________ at the Sharks.

White's Vodacom Cup trophy hangs in the balance(Sharks thread not working for a reply,he thinks it's race over)

Local Pumas also have this Covid and the Rugby Board are trying to re-schedule both games

....the Lions and the Bulls.That leaves the winner of the Stormers and Sharks game the winner if Bulls only get a draw.Shouldn't be penalized on final standings because of a Covid draw though/.

Dave 2 years prior to the WC White’s record was 8/4 win/loss and he missed winning a second TN by 5 minutes. Losing to the ABs away 31 to 27.

Erasmus’ record against our SH opponents:

NZ .....1 win/2 losses/1 draw......a 25% win ratio or 33% if we exclude the draw.

Oz....it’s 2/1, but only because we only  played Oz at home in 2019.

Wales we are 1/2.

Not exactly the ‘record of a great coach’.

This is utter baloney again and totally stupid.  The Springboks  played  12 tests against the AB's when Meyer was coach and won ONE of those - under Coetzee ir was even worse - they lost all 4 tests played and there were no BS calculations provided then by you.   

As to Jake White - he has the strong financial backing of two billionaires and his team has tow ion or he would be fired,   

Anyway - what you fail to recognize is that White had an easy ride to the WC final.  Just take into account that in the four round robin tests they struggled against Tonga  and in the quarter-finals against Fiji - while they played an over-the-hill England team and manage to win by kicking at goal - never a single try even contemplated  in the final.   After beating the English convincingly in the round robin part of the WC-series - White allowed the English  to dictate the nature of the game to be played and the Springboks struggled as a result in the final.   

There was no struggle in the 2019 WC final - they dismantled and beat the better than 2007 English team by a huge margin,   

There can be no real argument - Erasmus is a brilliant coach and player manager than any coach the Springboks had since 1992 - while White was a good coach - with rather problematic player management - the latter aspect cost him dearly  un subsequent coaching jobs/

There can never be any doubt about Erasmus as a coach - he inherited a dispirited and poor team when he took over in  May 2018 and in 15 months took the Springboks from the 7th ranked team in the word to the top one in less than 18 months,   So please - your rugby interpretations is driven by prejudice and consequently idiotic.

  ,     .  .        

All he did was exactly the opposite of what you wanted Wanker. He followed my prescription of a potent defense.....you were still calling for seuntjies running through green pastures.

All Erasmus did was the obvious.

"Rassie’s record is still work in progress you idiot and can only be compared with the rest of the coaches once he has moved on"

Maybe not Dave, as far as I know he was employed as the Director of Rugby not as the coach of the Boks.

Only defense without scoring of tries would never win a world cup.    I never said defense is not important - fact is that is why Du Toit was the Player of the Year last year and De Allende was the best center during the series.  What I did say was that a 10 man game is total BS and I clearly remember how you wrote that 90% kicking is what is required from flyhalf.  

   .     

Correct...which is smart. There'll be continuity and that is always healthy. I have a good feeling about the Boks these days there's just so much talent coming through . We'll lose a few but it's to be expected.

The 10 man game is what Erasmus deployed against Wales and for 75% of the Pom game.. ...we only opened up once the game was won.

Dave let me give you a different slant. Jake got a team with a record just as poor as  Erasmus got. He immediately turned the team around....it didn’t take a second year. 

He had two brilliant  years, but was resented by the guys up north. So when Schalk got hurt in 2006 and things wobbled, he was immediately fighting for his coaching life. Puke was the cause for many....others just didn’t like the man.

So when 2007 rolled around it took a strong personality to right the ship. But he did .....Eddie helped, not so much because of skills coaching but because he instilled confidence in the backs.

Now Erasmus. He had a very unsure start, his whole first year was saved by a test the ABs gave away.......and Rassie returned the favour by giving away the home test.

In 2019 he smartly doubled down on his players, Pollard in particular and honed the defense. But to be fair, he improved basic execution....or rather his coaches did....Kneeknocker and Proudfoot did a great job of basics. But Erasmus gets credit for that

Beyond that he played a no mistakes game well, although Wales could have gone either way if Louw hadn’t turned over that crucial ball.

My fundamental point is we have the gene pool to always be at the very top. If Oz had our tight five with their strapping Dutch genes, instead of a mix of Island and Cockney genes.....they would be top dog. NZ has a better concoction but still not up to Dutch standards.

So when we lose it’s usually because we are doing something stupid. Erasmus and White avoided that, but I give White more credit because he was so undermined whereas Erasmus was so well supported.

The gameplan was still wobbly in my opinion. It hinged on accurate shallow up and unders, but the kicks were poor. It basically came down to a good matchup in the final and a very, very sketchy Welsh test. What else was there? A loss and a draw against the most vulnerable All Black side since 1998? José's results are propped up by three key results. That's it. His 2018 was worse than 2017, his 2019 was nothing spectacular. He regressed the Bok game in every attacking category. Our game has gone backwards, not forwards. It's based entirely on physical dominance, which we cannot guarantee. Jake's Boks evolved over four years, continuously. His work carried the Boks on for the next cycle. Until, J osé and Nienaber again took the reigns in 2011. They did steady the ship that Snor was determined to burry beneath the waves, but the physicality blueprint didn't work. Not even with our golden age of players. José and his key worker needed a second bite at the apple and a bit of luck. 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt until you said Luke was a class opensider. He was no test player as we saw when he was given his full opportunity under the Snor. Small, not particularly fast and easily dominated physically.

I started to read  what AO w rote above and stop reading when he showed utter stupidity once again:- lets give some examples:-

*   The English team sent to SA in 2007 was a crap side made up of a lot pf pretenders - none of the real test players were in the team and White is praised for the victories against them.   England would not use any of those players in any real tests.   There was quite a scandal about that team in 2007,  but it is evident that AO is too dumb to realize what happened.

*     Erasmus send a squad comprising of five test regulars and the rest were pretenders - to play the Welsh in Washington - it even contained Esterhuizen at center - and the loss by that lot is a reason  for criticism if Erasmus.

*      the injury excuse for the 33-6 loss by the Springboks against New Zealand and the 25-17 loss against Australia in the 2007 Tri-Nations is a joke as well.

*      the 2007 WC squad of England was a joke in bad taste as well - there were basically too many over-the-hill players in the squad and the 2019 England team would have beaten that lot by a cricket score count.    The game plan of White for the WC final was a joke as well - he allowed the English to play a game suited to them and not the Springboks.