Okay this is based on the very bitter response to the Stormers loss to the Chiefs. As if a SA ref was officiating the game. Stormers would of won 100-0 right . As along as I hav bn on this forum SA bloggers/followers hav always had a very bitter response to kiwi refs or kiwi officiating in general. I don't know if that has always bn the case. Did it start in the 2011 RWC QF wth Bryce Lawerence, who admittally had a bad game. But was not the reason Boks lost that QF. I just think its got to a point. That when a Kiwi is reffing a SA NZ game. The consensus is automatically we can't win that game because the ref is kiwi. I mean really? Are we really saying because of a refs nationality they would go into a game. Being trained, and being professionals. Ref a game on purpose to suit one team, simply because they are from their country? I mean their hav been ton of SA refs reffing NZ Super rugby fixtures. Like Jonathon Kaplan. Great ref. But if Say a NZ side lost to a SA side in NZ. I would not assume it was because of the Refs Nationality? So I ask SA bloggers why so bitter?
Nationality and Refs Officiating outside of their Durastriction
Luke
It was not only the Bryce Lawrence disaster that caused the problem - he did not have a bad day - he crooked the result to ensure the Aussies win the match so as to ensure the Aussiues meet the AB's in the semi's and not SA. After all he was punished by World Rugby by his removal from the international referee panel, but was amply rewarded by NZ rugby for his valuable services.
The problem actually started when a New Zealander as the Head of the Sanzaar Referees Panel sent an e-mail; to Aussie and NZ refs to ensure that SA teams are punished so as not to win matches in what was then only involving NZ, Aussiue and SA teams. Unfortunately the fool cc;d a copy of that message to SA Rugby.
Bryce Lawrence was appointed by NZ to Head their Referees Training Programme and the question can reasonably be asked - is he training them as to how to crook matches in the same way he did?
Luke the ref whining on here has gotten to epic proportions and I find myself losing respect for some I thought better of.
Do you Saffas really think theres some world wide conspiracy among refs to favour the ABs ? Now tell me why any ref would do that ? Do you really think that the world governing body for rugby which is chock full of reps from countries regularly flogged by the ABS would somehow want to give them a hand up ? The same body that makes rule changes to suit NH teams As if the ABs need any help and for over a century ?
Sooks.Get a grip Mikey thats some a grade horse shit right there.Confirmation bias working overtime for conspiracy theorists on here .
And like your nonsense Mike its getting old and fucking boring .
Sorry
I tried to be factual insofar as the article above is concerned - and I Have constantly tried to get the members to wait for what Sanzaar is going to di about Fraser. This matter is serious and should be destined to the dustbin by proper action,
In the case of Jackson he was withdrawn from reffing of teams in SA and what will happen to Fraser.
When Smith scored the try I was one of the first members who said the decision not to allow for the scoring of the try was wrong, I normally am outspoken about refer eeing and that applies to SA refs s well.
I hate the idea of losing the respect of NZ supporters on site and hope the matter could be solved by Sanzaar
As Mallet says why are Kiwi refs reffing Kiwi teams here,I thought they had soughted this out long ago?
I've watched a few of the Crusaders games live beating the Lions at Ellis Park and well done to them,still remember an Aussie ref being in charge-good games.Last years final was reffed by Peyper.
I don't want to deviate from the subject and I'm certainly not qualified to go heavily into these issues but I sincerely believe this angle of accusations about "crooked" refs is wrong.
Firstly it puts the integrity of the game at risk and creates the feeling that it's not worth watching...is there any sense in watching a pre-planned result, ofcourse not...nobody in their right senses does.
The problem as this novice sees it is the laws or rulings of the game...they have become too complex and a mine field of confusion which will always lead to dispute...interpretation and discretion differs vastly...the players themselves often don't understand the calls, let alone the peanut nut gallery biased fans.
Why not start simplifying them...those contentious issues...the rucks, the mauls and particular the scrum rules.
To think that referees purposely plot to "gyppo" games is an insult...probably interpret differently would be more accurate.
Well all this palaver now about the Chiefs /Stormers game leaves a nasty taste in any fair thinking and rational mind and the emotion it causes is not worth watching...this is "witch-hunting" and a red-herring and brings the game itself into disrepute and if that's the case then there are certainly more enjoyable things to do than wasting time watching Super rugby.
Durastriction!?
That sounds like a medical procedure involving a mechanical heart valve :)
Anyway.
@ Seb
Umm if this is orchestrated cheating then by all means the game needs to be brought into disrepute.
Remember how everybody though Fifa was a shining light and how the sun shone out of Blatter's holes. Then we discovered it was rotten to the nines.
Remember how Daryl Hair(spelling) was defended by the Aussies?
Remember how Hansie was such a hero?
In every sport, every team and administration at some point is involved in nafrious shit.
It happens all the time. Right now, there is smoke billowing from the kiwi camp but they assure us there ain't not fire. Unfortunately logic points to a blazing fucking inferno.
My feeling is that NZ rugby at present has some dark characters working behind the scenes to ensure certain goals are reached.
I also know that some clever journalist is going to expose them at some point in the near future.
That article last week spoke about how cheating has reached epidemic levels in SR. Was it that far off the mark?
I've counted five, possibly six games this year which suggest that it's a lot closer than Wardad, Kak Maat and others will have you believe.
It seems like a bigger insult than it is. And if anything, the kiwis here should be a lot more interested in talking about the facts than flinging insults on the basis of "feeling insulted".
Strangely, not one of them is actually interested in talking about said facts. Many of the points of discussion are right there on video too. They'd much rather keep it in the realm of suspicion, cynicism and opinion though. That's where all the wiggle room is.
Not one of them commented on the time stamped video of Jackson's last minute call against the Bulls. Why not?
Because it's easier to fling insults while completely ignoring all facts. Something they got used to doing under Bitchie(their great hero).
You'll not see them actually debating the merits of the claims.
That on it's own is quite compelling.
I don't support Beeno in his many, often satirical, rants about all kiwis being bent. We know most of it is in jest and hardly any of us here agree.
But they pretend like we all jump on the bandwagon because it suites their defense. We don't.
@Wardad
Mike put it quite clearly.
1) Your refs have been caught sending emails conspiring against our teams. Explain if you can.
2) Your ref was caught and punished for ending our team's WC campaign to benefit your team. The world knows.
3) This year there have been multiple games where game changing AND erroneous calls have been made by your refs and on each occasion your teams have benefited.
Losing respect for us? Why, because we have eyes?
No danger mate. You never had that much respect to give anyway.
Fuck me...You think we want your respect? Overestimation of self worth much?
More ad hominems? Against Mike, who never attacked you personally. Fine let me have a go.
Sooner or later you'll realise that you don't dictate jack shit here. Nobody gives a toss about your superiority complex and we're even less afraid of your gang mentality. It's what pussies do. You keep talking about being a man, and I think that's because the concept both intrigues and illudes you.
Now run along and let the adults have a conversation free from your juvenile twat gabbing.
...notsoclevermike, it was so funny mate how you were so assured of yourself ...and then so embarrassed by yr prediction failing miserably that maybe yr pride has gotten in the way of yr better judgement...so instead of looking at yr own teams pitiful performance you've chosen to blame the Stormers loss on someone else..
Had you kept up with the Chiefs rotation policy you would have noticed that players had been rested for SA ...a decision Chiefs coach came under some criticism for after the Jaguars loss but has paid dividends in SA...but obviously something you miscalculated in yr predictions, not to mention the failure on yr part to factor in our history of kicking the Stormers butts..
Face it the referee had very little to do with the Chiefs attack paying dividends as they are renown for their attacking rugby...so we scored three tries to none and monstered the soft SA pack at the same time..
The Stormers coach is mocked shortly thereafter on a subsequent thread adding more weight to posit the team has deep underlying issues...So go ahead and blame Fraser for yr team being down the bottom of the SA conference ..but next time underestimate the Chiefs at yr peril...
That said the Sharks will be heavy favourites to win this weekend so you should be safe with that one..
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!
How things have changed.
I don't think so.
Hick is a total arsehole. The perfect example of his immoral people. A semi literate, loud mouth who I'd love to look in the eye some day.
Great post, Plum. Enjoyed that immensely.
I'm aware that there is always some darkness in man's endeavours, be it busine ss, sport or politics but I'm not that naive Plum and what you said about the other sports is indeed a smear but think to pin point and isolate it just to NZ refs is going a liitle bit too overboard...be that as it may that's not what I was saying...I meant that the laws should be made less complicated, more readable and transparent...this would lead to less confusion and obviously less disputes and contentious issues.
The IRB is getting rotten too (like Fifa) but that's another subject, albeit it could be part of the problem.
Brycy
Did you watch the game at all? There was very little in attacks of the Chiefs that pay dividends for them the only tries came from a very effective kick by McKenzie where the bounce of the ball opened the way fro a try.
The real difference came about because of the reffing of the scrums by Fraser. If he reffed it correctly the Chiefs would not get the advantage that they got through pnn alty kicks and gaining of territory.
However, I was not the one blaming the refs - it is a case where the Stormers Director of Rugby reported the ref to Sanzaar. How suddenly after losing at home to the Jaguares they can come to CT and getting scrum superiority is amazing and cannot really be accounted for by you.
In any vent it is spilled milk and it is no use to carry on with the subject. All we can do is to see what comes out of Sanzaar. I think that Fraser will be recalled - like the case was with Jacobs after refereeing disasters in two games he reffed.
.
Oh shut it it, Cloudy.
Go back to the kitchen and boil something.
The last time you ran away pouting when it got a little rough here. You ended up sulking for months, and now you wanna mix it up with the boys again?
Why?
Lol what rugby talk????? Hahaha too funny
Ja Cloudy very funny Bahahahahahahahahaha
CC I'd be careful with Cloudy...she can handle most if not all here and besides she has 8 big brothers...
Posters, Cloudy...come in all shapes don't worry, some are mean, some are fools and some are poisonous...ask Beeno...Bahahahahahaha
The sport does not need this type of controversy. If a game is close- and there are marginal or incorrect calls- anyone would question the logic of "some" teams having their own personal referees. What next, their referee catches the same flight, stays in the same hotel- and part of the New Zealand coaching team.
Their own cameraman to only show "certain" replays to the referee. Again, this does not appear to be happening in Australia or South Africa. Are the cameras just not very good in New Zealand, or is this intentional. Again, perhaps nothing intentional- but indirectly it is benefiting New Zealand teams- if the opposition gets fewer replays than them.
Imagine it was the same in Pro14- that one country gets home and away games with a referee from their own country.Of course, the fans from the other countries would cry foul in close games.
I don't see the same situation for Australia or South Africa. The Sharks lost close games in New Zealand- and perhaps with an SA ref that they are more used to - they could have won.
No system is perfect, but there does need to be consistency for all team involved. Otherwise, it will raise controversy in close games. The fairest system is a consistent one.
--Bearing in mind that former All Black coach Graeme Henry said that 2007 was rigged by the referee and the IRB. It was irregular that one team(France) would get so many penalties in a row- but less controversial if the referee was actually from France. Many New Zealand fans support this viewpoint from Graeme Henry
https://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/
Imagine Wayne Barnes was the referee in a World Cup final of England against the All Blacks.
If the game was close with some controversial decisions- would this be fair on New Zealand fans. If a referee is from the same county in a big match- they could be biased without evening intending to, or being consciously aware of.
cloudster dont know why you bother reading ccs shit ,he just says the same tiresome crap over and over and I think it has its wee nosey out of joint because it was called out on sleazy behaviour ?
Plum thinks hes some sort of intellectual but sadly for him falls far from the mark,doncha love how he was going to teach us poor Kiwis how to argue ? We dont need to constantly bicker for starters and his idea of us arguing a point is to just agree with his shit.
As for my respect ? Fuck me ya wee girls blouse I wasnt referring to you and you never had it to begin with.Tickets on yourself much ?
Tell you what as you have nothing new to add except wee girly moaning and bitching I shant bother vreading your twaddle either so dont bother directing your boring shite at me thanks.Cloudy has your number and a couple of other twats on here too.
Y'all need to grow a pair.
Dunno Cloudster really busy of late but would love to .
What the saffas on here dont get is that we dont care if all the refs were saffas it just doesnt matter to me and I am sure others feel the samebut as you said they will find something else to moan about like Ben Smiths luvverly knees or summat.
By neutral referees (ones from non-participant countries) one would achieve parity and fairness and Shark remarked:
"No system is perfect, but there does need to be consistency for all team involved. Otherwise, it will raise controversy in close games. The fairest system is a consistent one"
Agreed and that would be the best solution.
I would also like to see simple and less complex laws to do away with confusion and tedious resets of scrumming (very irritating for spectators and even more so with players)...waste of playing time and energy sapping and to do away with the rolling maul...nothing absorbing or athletic in that...it's like watching a herd of cattle being driven into a cattle dip...requires a little more skill than playing jukskei imho...appeals to the proletariat in blue working "suits" or like Jimmy Abbot fighting against Mike Schutte....Bahahahahahahaha.
.
haha!!!
You will note of course how YET AGAIN the Kuntis completely ignored the actual points of discussion and "wild" accusations leveled against their rugby institutions.
If we are being so unreasonable in our completely uncouth victimisation of yas then it should be very easy for you lot to destroy our argument. Very easy indeed.
Somehow, it doesn't seem like you can though. Once all the bs is subtracted from your responses there is literally nothing of an argument left. Its not even paper thin.
It's just entirely non-existent.
Is there not one among you who will rise to the challenge???
Can't you do a haka or something, muster up some courage and actually try?
Our accusations are clear. The line is there. Go on...lets see what you've got.
If you can then i shall apologise wholeheartedly. It's what men do.
Surely some grovelling should be sufficient motivation/ incentive.
Ball is in your court ladies...and half man cow milker(a fitting counter insult to being labelled a sexist unjustly).
Its worse than i thought!
A Brycy
Mike didn't make it up all on his own.
The scrum situation in the Stormers' game was raised by Mallet immediately after the game.
The slow motion elbow was highlighted in an Afrikaans rugby magazine show last night...a show hosted by an ex Bok.
All i'm saying is that people are starting to take notice.
Try as you like to confine it to "loonies on ruckers"...the reality is that it is getting out hand, as Reason said and people are noticing .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12050907
Another nutter flinging wild accusations in the hopes that something will stick.
Still waiting for your actua l rebuttal milkman!
per 3 iq
Did it start in the 2011 RWC QF wth Bryce Lawerence, who admittally had a bad game. But was not the reason Boks lost that QF.
So Boks lose by a couple of points, the ref has the worst game in rugby history re bias against the Boks and it made no difference to the result. Bwahahahahahahaah you cant make up this BS.
Are you still waiting for me to say that I'm not a sexist?
Lol
Ok here goes...
Ready...
I'm not a sexist.
There we go. Was It all you hoped?
Now, could the people please hear your rebuttal of the issue at hand here.
Will you woman up to the challenge or shy away like the other kiwis?
Go on then, make mincemeat out of our obviously mistaken accusations.
They're such nonsense that it should be soooooo easy.
We're all ears.
Are you still waiting for me to say that I'm not a sexist?
Lol
Ok here goes...
Ready...
I'm not a sexist.
There we go. Was It all you hoped?
Now, could the people please hear your rebuttal of the issue at hand here.
Will you woman up to the challenge or shy away like the other kiwis?
Go on then, make mincemeat out of our obviously mistaken accusations.
They're such nonsense that it should be soooooo easy.
We're all ears.
Hey Luke ... there is an edit function available for your title.
Ok Cloudy ... you've decided to stay ... cool.
Go ahead ... stick it to me ... annoy me ... piss me off.
Lets see what you're made of.
SANZAAR was daft to allow a situation where non neutral reffs where the norm. It should be stopped ASAP.
...Plum from what i can see there is indeed problems with the SA front row, but don't let facts get in the way of a good story....otherwise why would there be a whole thread dedicated to the problem...
...RE: I am vey worrid about the SA prop situation
...and if you have issues then where were your comments at the time , you were on the live comments thread bashing DE Allande - following that up on another thread by mocking the Stormers coach...why did'nt you speak up?....maybe next time speak up sooner and it won't look like yr just jumping on the band wagon..
No!
Here, nice and easy.
1) the letter to refs
2) Bryce in the WC
3) this season where five-six games have seen YOUR REFS hand YOUR TEAMS games.
Those are the "accusations" causing the stir. Mainly point 3.
We await your rebuttal.
Good point Brycy
After the ref bashing from the previous week I thought of trying to remain calm. Alas.
Also, had some people over was only catching parts of the game. The gin was flowing through all gates.
Still, bandwagon or not...how do you rate the reffing of those scrums?
Good, average, sub-par or biased?
"Then there was the issue of you supporting Richie and Sonny in regards to their respective yellow and red cards and last but not least, there's the acknowledgment by yourself saying that our coaches teach our players how to cheat. You endorsed what Reason said ( no surprises there) so front up to those issues and then we might have a decent conversation that doesn't involve milking cows, simpletons and sexist comments. Savvy??"
What in the name of $&#@ are you talking about?
SBW and the SR final- Legitimte instances where your teams where hard done by...in my opinion. I said so at the time. Made my usual long winded posts about it(strangely no kiwi attacked me on either occasion).
Reason saying what he said - I agree. So do many others. This season has particularly bad.
Your coaches teaching cheating tactics - Yes I think this too. Players walking offside when the ref is distracted is cheating. It's coached, and it's cheating. One example.
What is confusing you?
The fact that I support Richie and SBW on the one hand though claim cheat tactics on the other?
If that is confusing you then this really is above your station.Sorry.
I'll quickly explain. Cheating and being hard done by are not two mutually exclusive phenomenon of which you only ever experience or carry out one.
How on earth is thi s confusing you?
Refs are professionals. SR refs are attached to SR. When SR goes bust, players might find a new job in Japan, the US or Europe.
For refs, this is going to be another story.
Despite this dependency, you've got to believe that refs take willingfully decisions that will endanger the SR and keep helping NZ sides whose domination is the main cause of SR rugby problems.
If anything, people take decisions to protect their job. The competition was also rigged so that a SA side get access to play offs.
If NZ sides keep winning, that is not because they get help from refs, that is because other sides are beyond help, refs do not manage to favour them enough to secure wins.
Quota policy tale, SA rugby powerhouse tale, refs helping NZ sides tale and more...
Ducking and diving what?
Hahaha
What are you on about?
Lol you roll up. At the first sign of disagreement you yell "sexism"...then carry on about being a tough girl, then go on about who the gentlemen are, how I'm not man enough blah blah blah
Sure, you're not playing to your gender at all.
Congratulations. You lose.
More BS from the Trad... Excellent!
Tralala land...
...Plum you were entertaining friends while watching tv and typing on yr computer - you sound like a real party animal...
..but in answer to yr question i am not happy with scrumming in general and prefer NRL scrums tbh.. wherein i don't have to wait around for eight minutes for them to set, collapse reset collapse reset collapse again... nor are the penalties awarded abit of a lottery...NRL is a much faster game i could go on about it and we are all waiting for SA to front up with a team ...although it is a game for the working class so i'm not sure whether you lot regard it as beneath you or not..
...I am very happy with the new Chiefs loosehead prop though Karl Tuinukuafe..he used to weigh 170kgs and touted as a possible AB of the future.... so a big unit of a man who has demolished every tighthead he scrummed against this season...no surprise then when the Chiefs scrum bulldozed the hapless Stormers...am not sure if that's part of the game you saw because you really need to watch games if your going to throw around so many allegations... as opposed to just jumping on bandwagons and relying on heresay...
but i do think alot of the crying is because the Chiefs outscrummed the Stormers on the day. Tuinukuave did such a great job... and all the Stormer supporters thought their scrum was invincible, call it arrogance if you want... They had'nt seen their scrum go backwards before so therefore they were looking for a scapegoat to blame for them being completely embarrassed...Fraser an easy target...


