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New stats on Lood & others; the Roar

Started by Just_win40 REPLIES607 VIEWS· 03 Nov 2015, 19:04
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:04
#1
03 Nov 2015, 19:04#1

A young man is told by his village: “Go north, over the mountains, and return with a young woman to be your wife; be sure she is beautiful, but also brilliant. She must be smarter than anyone else. But also very pretty.”

Which trait do you think he is more likely to focus on?

Rugby commentators speak often of work rate. “He’s got a motor!” Clearly, stamina and the willingness to get busy is important in rugby. An eighty-minute player who can attend as many contact zones as possible enables the team to keep chugging away.

World Rugby’s statisticians tend to feature volume of work. They portray ‘number of times over the gain line’ as a virtue in and of itself. Or carries. Lineout catches. Metres run. Tackles made as a gross total.

That’s just being pretty. The lad goes and finds the prettiest lass he can find; brains may or may not come with it.

I like statistics that honour efficiency and the context of the player’s positional requirements.

So, who were those smart and pretty players in the 2015 Rugby World Cup?

I can’t promise you an official list of the ‘Busiest Players who Were Also Good at Being Busy and Busy Being Very Good’, because:

– Scrumhalves are always busy and so I’m leaving them out;
– Props have to lift people and scrum and that’s busy in its own way;
– Fullbacks can run 20 metres any time they want to, after a kick.

But here are some players who were busy and efficient; hot and smart:

Busy tacklers who still made their tackles
Tackling involves a choice. Some players hide. Some players lag. Others roam.

Here are the players who made 50 or more tackles at an 85 per cent rate or higher, ranked in order of how many tackles they made per minute of play on the field:

1. Dan Lydiate (0.25 tackles/minute at 90 per cent rate)
2. Jonny Gray (0.24 tackles/minute at 97.1 per cent rate)
3. Lood de Jager (0.19 tackles/minute at 93.9 per cent)
4. Thierry Dusautoir (0.17/91.6%)
5. Schalk Burger (0.16/88.2%)
6. Eben Etzebeth (0.15/96.1%)
7. Michael Leitch (0.15/89.4%)
8. David Pocock (0.15/86.7%)
9. Sam Warburton (0.14/91.5%)
10.Francois Louw (0.14/87.5%)

Michael Hooper, Richie McCaw, Scott Fardy – and Nicolas Sanchez of all people – are just outside this list.

A few things that occur to me. Three locks (two of them, the South African youngsters, very tall) show up on this tackle volume and efficiency list, and their tackle success rate was the highest. I can guarantee you there would not have been three lock leaders in this stat before the professional era.

The other seven are loose forwards, but several of those are pilfer artists, including Pocock, Louw, Dusautoir, Warburton and McCaw.

If we raise the bar to 90 per cent tackling and 0.15 tackles/minute, the best are Lydiate, Gray, de Jager, Etzebeth, and Warburton.

Turnovers are cancelled out by penalties
The most efficient pilferer in this tournament was Damian de Allende, who won nine turnovers but never conceded a penalty. The highest volume pilferers were Pocock (17) and Louw (13). For being so ‘pretty,’ Pocock was also very smart.

The turnover-to-penalty ratios of the top pilferers:

de Allende 9:0
Pocock 17:3
Nakarawa 9:3
Warburton 7:3
Dusautoir 9:4
Louw 13:6
McCaw 7:7

Heavy carriers who make it over the gain line
There is value in a guy who can truck it up fifteen, twenty times a game; even if he doesn’t break the line. But again, we want a pretty genius, a lovely bookworm.

Who made the grade?

So, here are the heaviest carriers of the ball, if they made it across the gain line at least 40 per cent of the time:

Burger (0.2 carries a minute/40% gainline success)
Leitch (0.18/60%)
Levanini (0.18/42.1%)
de Allende (0.14/49.1%)
Israel Folau (0.14/47.1%)
Ma’a Nonu (0.14/41.5%)
de Jager (0.13/52.9%)
Vermeulen (0.13/44.6%)
Kieran Read (0.12/59%)
Etzebeth (0.12/46.5%)
Kaino (0.11/43.8%)

This list is immediate recognisable as busy players. Others who narrowly missed out were Hooper, Fardy, Dusautoir (who had a phenomenal 68 per cent gain line rate, but did not carry enough), Lydiate, Warburton, Pollard, and Sam Whitelock.

If we shrink that list down to 45 per cent or better at gain line success, we have this order of merit:

1. Leitch
2. de Allende
3. Folau
4. de Jager
5. Read
6. Etzebeth

All rounders
Already, the eye is drawn to de Jager’s presence on both the ‘efficient tackle per minute’ and ‘good carries per minute’ lists. Others are Leitch, Etzebeth, and Burger.

Damian de Allende, Louw, McCaw, and David Pocock show up on both the tackle and turnover ratio list.

Read pops up on many of the lists, too.

Loose ball collected
Ben Smith was a livewire, collecting 19 loose balls; but so were Read, McCaw, Cordero, Tuculet, and of course, Pocock.

Busiest players who were good at being busy and busy at being good
With the caveat that this article is not addressing scrumhalves and props, I think if were picking five very busy and very efficient players; five knockouts with brains, we’d eliminate the busiest of all (Burger) because his gainline success was too low, and he only won one turnover.

We’d also cut Jonny Gray, because he had the worst gain line rate of all the busy players (19.2%). That would be Fardy’s problem too (34.2%). We’d ignore any player who didn’t make at least eight tackles a game at a 90 plus percentage rate. We’d want him to have a go at the turnover, but not conceding too many penalties.

Dusautoir had brilliant efficiency, but needed Burger’s work rate.

So, we are left with Leitch, Etzebeth, de Jager, Pocock, and Read.

The mad statistician (who is both mentally and physically lovely) has spoken again.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:18
#2
03 Nov 2015, 19:18#2

Brilliant JW


Hopefully this will shut those ignorant twats up when it comes for Lood and de Allende.....we always new Etzebeth was up there


As they say ladies and gents......case closed


Imagine being the idiot who does not rate Lood or DA......bwhaaaahaaaaaaa  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:22
#3
03 Nov 2015, 19:22#3
 Some more perspective,  thanks. Blind stats are useless and used blindly by fools. As is single supposedly "game changing events"  There are no such thing in an 80m game played by 30 players a side....sure there are brainfarts and moments  of brilliance that decides matches, but in the end, it's a team sport. Pinning a victory or loss on one player or act in a match is sillier than....well, any other fool's statement. Having said that, stats taken over a extended period of time and put in context do tell a significant story.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:23
#4
03 Nov 2015, 19:23#4

I'll say it again.....great find JW 


Watch the pathetic excuses to follow

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:25
#5
03 Nov 2015, 19:25#5
 It's fine to fault a player, but then you should at least be able to sugest a credible alternative with some facts ir reason to back it up.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 19:29
#6
03 Nov 2015, 19:29#6
Those stats serve to blow some ignorant fools right out of the water.....I feel for these clowns......time to take cover, head for the hills, caves or bunkers  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Nov 2015, 20:37
#7
03 Nov 2015, 20:37#7
 Given how much he disliked and lied about De Allende and De Jager - this will drive him completely nuts......he will have a f\t about these stats.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 20:51
#8
03 Nov 2015, 20:51#8
Just confirms how rugby ignorant Moffie is. The rugby world has been raving about these two only to have Moffie tell us how kak they are. Embarrassing really. About as stupid as old Vic s moment of madness that cost us the semi 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Nov 2015, 21:12
#9
03 Nov 2015, 21:12#9
 Look, those are some stats, there are some less flattering ones too. All is not perfect, but there is room for improvement and less doom and gloom than some would concede. We need some changes in our Bok setup and coaching is actually the smaller concer  for me. Yes, it's a big concern,  but rather a symptom of the real problem than the problem itself.
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Nov 2015, 21:26
#10
03 Nov 2015, 21:26#10
 OuDawie, you'd struggle to distinguish between sh!t or sugar ................. Loodfoot vokked up stopping Kaino & he was too slapgat stopping the Argie . Vok jou & your stats .
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Nov 2015, 21:39
#11
03 Nov 2015, 21:39#11
 Bob, yes Lood made errors...and he will do so in the future again. Matfield also fooked up a few times. Lood would have been better if he had more tests under the belt before the RWC. Matfield would not have been weaker if he played a bit less in the last two years. Wasted opportunity. Same with the centers, Props and almost all other positions. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 21:50
#12
03 Nov 2015, 21:50#12
Poor Blob are those stats hurting you you ignorant prick?
Damn right Lood missed a tackle or two, a line out or two and hell he even spilt a ball or two - shit he is not perfect fuck wit. But what those stats show is that he is damn close to being perfect - probably more so than 99% of the players at the WC. Not only as a defender but as ball carrier as well.
You have to be one fucking utterly ignorant rugby observer to miss out on this obvious fact. Fuck wits like you define platers by the odd missed tackle because you are fucking clueless....look at the real picture you idiot....better still go watch another sport...this great game is beyond you.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Nov 2015, 21:52
#13
03 Nov 2015, 21:52#13
Disagree Draad Matfield should not have been anywhere near the Bok side in the last 2 years. He deprived the impressive Willemse of that spot.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Nov 2015, 01:55
#14
05 Nov 2015, 01:55#14
 Moz did you conveniently miss this post?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Nov 2015, 03:29
#15
05 Nov 2015, 03:29#15
No..I just found nothing new, other than the turnover per penalty stat which is useful, but not been calculable on stats guru. Allende did a fine job turning over balls. De Wet Barry was good at that as well. Didn't make him a great centre, nor is Allende a great centre at this stage. In the whole WC he scored one try in a blow out and nothing else...no assists...nothing that was vaguely dangerous.

Lomp's numbers are all pool based. Take the carries per minute list...an absurd concept....some players, like Lomp, are routine carriers of the ball and so will show up on this kind of list...as did Burger and Etzebeth. This is part of the Bok game plan.

But supposedly Lomp is effective. Maybe against the USA and Japan. In his three knockout games he carried the ball 15 times and gained 12 metres. While losing the ball twice! 
If you say a turnover is worth 20 metres he carried the ball 15 times for a net loss of 28 metres...or almost 2 metres lost a carry.

Whoever the  fool is who wrote this article he has no concept of relevant stats.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
05 Nov 2015, 06:05
#16
05 Nov 2015, 06:05#16
 Turnovers per penalty is a logical way to ad a bit of context. First time I see that angle being used....some other useful angles too, but he is obviously trying to prop up his support for Lood. Good points all the same....so not a total fool.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Nov 2015, 06:59
#17
05 Nov 2015, 06:59#17
 Mozart is the biggest BSer on the site.  He flings around stats as if they matter - only if those stats over a series is entirely in contradiction of what happened in all matches.
Whomsoever Mozart is to make statements coming from a supreme idiot with a  superiority complex on his part is that everyone else differing from him is wrong and only he is correct takes the cake.
When stats he believes support his comments they are splashed all over the site - when they are not used or ignored by him.  
This idiot calling himself Mozart will do everything he can - definitely including lies as well -  to discredit De Jager.  He claims that he is ineffective against stronger teams and good against weaker teams.  However, in the SR games against Australia and NZ he was very good.  
This type of theory about losing possession is absolute BS concocted in his mind as well,   But then while even Meyer is praising De Jager and other youngsters - the idiot is condemning them out of hand.   That says it all.           
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Nov 2015, 08:24
#18
05 Nov 2015, 08:24#18
 If only the good Doctor had been guided by me on this issue.I stated that Lood and Eben were the best lock combo in world rugby and these stats help prove that.The kbbs will have noted that neither retardlick or wee whitelock feature. Notice how many South Africans feature especially forwards. But the chest beating blowhards - I refer of course to the kbbs - think not a single Bok would make the wee abs side Bwahhahahahahahahahahaha you have to love these delusional blowhards - a laugh a minute 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Nov 2015, 08:29
#19
05 Nov 2015, 08:29#19
 They will also notice the hapless mcaaaw hardly features despite all their groupie behaviour re this guy.Hahahahahahahaha
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Nov 2015, 08:39
#20
05 Nov 2015, 08:39#20
 Beeno;
 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2015, 09:04
#21
05 Nov 2015, 09:04#21
JW Voetsek!!!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Nov 2015, 09:09
#22
05 Nov 2015, 09:09#22
 The dark duck and the dark team of burgalars! 
JW please note carefully my astute comments above!
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Nov 2015, 09:23
#23
05 Nov 2015, 09:23#23
V O E T S E K = I am a donkey! LOL
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Nov 2015, 09:40
#24
05 Nov 2015, 09:40#24
Beeno, yes I took your comments into account in my response. I thought a bit of reality (McCaw holding the trophy up high for all to see) would reduce your score on the "delusion-index" ... but sadly the malady persists
Looks like you are a sure bet for getting the most delusional poster award Beeno but don't count your chickens yet.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Nov 2015, 16:42
#25
05 Nov 2015, 16:42#25
 Brilliant image....that's going to inspire NZ kids for a 100 years....the power of a simple gesture.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Nov 2015, 17:28
#26
05 Nov 2015, 17:28#26
Well said Mozart. In the old days the king would be holding the head of his defeated rival in his hand not the RWC. Who could say the game isn't more civilized these days ?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2015, 00:27
#27
06 Nov 2015, 00:27#27
 Wrong Moz Loods stats are not pool based they are WC in its entirety based. What it proves is just how utterly wrong you were about him. It proves to me that without a shadow of a doubt he was in the top 3 best players of the WC.
For a lock his stats are phenomenal.
Do me a favour and don't ever tell us how average Lood is for its embarrassing....take that as you like.
Lood is awesome....as for de Allende....the lad is a freak....more defenders beaten than anyone. Barry was fucking useless....one of the worst 12s to ever play for the Boks. DA with his hands tied is a better player 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2015, 00:32
#28
06 Nov 2015, 00:32#28
 No Dave...think about it...if he ran 15 times for 12 metres in all the knockout games, that hardly constitutes success. So if he had decent numbers....it could only have come from the pools. Follow the bouncing ball.....a flat track bully. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2015, 00:39
#29
06 Nov 2015, 00:39#29
 No Moz what you don't get is that a lock operates in traffic so half a metre gained is good. The stats are fir the entire WC. Lood was phenomenal...unbelievable stats for a lock both with ball in hand and defensively.
Big difference between metres gained by a lock vs that of a centre or wing.
Be a sport and admit you got it wrong re Lood - very very wrong. Failing which you will just keep making a fool of yourself.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2015, 03:18
#30
06 Nov 2015, 03:18#30
I'm quite happy to admit I'm wrong Dave....if that unlikely event ever occurs. In the meantime you can admit you were wrong about Kriel, Mvovo, Lambie, Stepfontein, Coenie, Stephanie and Kolisi ...all of whom were weak. Be a sport.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2015, 06:00
#31
06 Nov 2015, 06:00#31
 Mozart
When have you ever been right?  Not over the last three years where your misguided campaigns to discredit some players and promote your favourites have constantly backfired and you are so self-opinionated you fail to recognize that you were wrong and members differing from you were right.
The list of failures included players that has not had a half-decent game for years - players like Francois Steyn and Willem Alberts, as well as the actual failures in the latest WC campaign - Matfield, De Villiers. Pienaar and Jannied du Plessis.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Nov 2015, 06:36
#32
06 Nov 2015, 06:36#32
 Oh campaigns against players like Goosen, Stephanie, Liggies Labuschagne, Taute, JJ and the wooden Reinach I suppose. All of whom you supported I should remind you.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2015, 07:46
#33
06 Nov 2015, 07:46#33
 Mozart
You have never proved anything about Labuschagne and Reinach - ZERO.  I did not support Engelbrecht and Taute at center - you are a bloody liar.   I consistently said that Taute is no center but a full back and Engelbrecht should have played on the wing - not at center - for the Bulls.
Incidentally Labuschagne is a better loosie than Alberts ever was and Reinach at this stage of his career is better than Du Preez and Pienaar.      
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Nov 2015, 08:17
#34
06 Nov 2015, 08:17#34
 The turnover-to-penalty ratios of the top pilferers:

de Allende 9:0
Po[removed] 17:3
Nakarawa 9:3
Warburton 7:3
Dusautoir 9:4
Louw 13:6
McCaw 7:7

JW my good friend  let me spell it for you.  Allende 9 turnovers no penalties. Wee mcaaw 7 turnover and seven penalties - contribution zip. Zip being an overly generous statement given the penalties outweighed the turnovers.

The Fox must be shattered to relasie how strong Allende is. The point being you cant get things hopelessly wrong and there be no day of reckoning. The obvious point is when in doubt follow Beeno's sound advice. Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Moz's disasterous conclusions about Lood provide a classic example oh how  to avoid such blunders.

Mike the pick re the scrummies was blindingly obvious- Faf, Reinach and Du Preez. Instead we got quota player Paige, and the pedestrian Pienaaar. One of many Meyer blunders and quota nonsense.

O note again is how nutters are not assessing our backline players correctly. Be assured the wee abs backline would look pedestrian player Meyer dom rugby. 

Now we get the worlds most creative 15 coming under fire by the hatters egged on by my friend Brycy of the samoaners are going to send the Boks into oblivion fame!! 







CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2015, 10:42
#35
06 Nov 2015, 10:42#35
 "No Moz", says Dave. "What you don't get" he says "is that a lock operates in traffic so half a metre is good". That is what Dave say. Care to check Victor's metres with ball in hand over the RWC tournament? I'll save you some time. It was 2.35m per carry. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2015, 11:27
#36
06 Nov 2015, 11:27#36
 Ceradunce
Stupid pooper - Matfield was loafing around in the backline as per normal and got some balls in open field play - you stupid bloody dunce.  He never ever had even gained a meter when carrying the ball in traffic.  But then Matfield has never done anything ever in Tight 5 play - and that is what locks are supposed to do.   When a player loafs around in the backline he does get space where he can carry balls - like happened tice in the Scots test and once in the Samoa test.  In those two tests he made 20 of the 25 meter he carried balls in open field play.   The rest of the series excluding the Argentina game he carried the ball 8 times making 5 meters.  The same scenario was repeated in the Argentina game.
You get it - we are talking about lock play in traffric here - not a player acting as if he is an extra center - dunce.         
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Nov 2015, 11:49
#37
06 Nov 2015, 11:49#37
 Uhmmm. He actually carried the ball 2.35m in average. I was wondering, as I was posting that, what BS excuse you would dish up this time to rubbish the facts. You did not disappoint, I have to say. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
06 Nov 2015, 12:09
#38
06 Nov 2015, 12:09#38
Um no way in hell was Kriel weak, made more clean breaks than any other centre in the WC, that is anything but weak. I also know that just like Conrad Smith, he received very little ball all WC. Kriel is pure, pure class.
As for Serfontein, PSDT, Mvovo, Coenie, Lambie and Kolisi......I would not be stupid enough to pass judgement on them this WC given how little involvement they had.
One thing I do know is that Serf, PSDT, Lambie, Coenie and Kolisi are damn fine players.....all test quality.
The youngsters bar Habana and Schalk were by far our best players......those that actually played that is......Kriel, DA, Pollard, Nyakane, Malherbe, Etzebeth and Lood.
The only youngster that disappointed was Willie by his high standards 
Lood was our best Bok closely followed by Etzebeth, DA, Pollard, Malherbe, Vermeulen and Schalk
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2015, 12:33
#39
06 Nov 2015, 12:33#39
  Dofdoos
I watch matches and saw where Matfield was virtually all the time when he played.  So I know exactly what happened.  You are way too stupid to come up with the story that he carries balls in traffic - he never does.  If he ever tries to do that - he is physically weak and is tackled backwards causing massive problems for the team he plays for.    You are trying to make out that Matfield is in fact a lock - which he is not since he is incapable of doing the hard grind required from a lock.  That is -dofdoos - the reason why locks who used to be Springboks do not regard him as a lock of substance.   They admit he was good in line-outs, but for the rest according to them he is not selectable as a lock and said that publicly before Meyer was stupid enough to select him as a squad member.  .     
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Nov 2015, 13:32
#40
06 Nov 2015, 13:32#40
 Dave 
You are discussing the issue with Mozart and his sidekicks - who flatly refuse to see how poor most of the older players were.  In an effort to sideline the issue they attack the younger players and try and blame them for everything that went wrong.  
They did not realize that they made fools of themselves in supporting the players they adore were atrocious.   Even Schalk Burger was wrongly used and what they tried to do with him was what he is not really capable to do.  His ball carries were accompanied by two many ball possession losses.   He was still with Habana still acceptable insofar as performance is concerned,  Pienaar was an outright failure and they all shouted with joy when Du Preez replaced him.   In the test against Samoa he looked good - perhaps more so because he was so much better than Pienaar was.  However, Du Preez for the rest was bog-ordinary to poor - another failure in other words.  
They were so disgraced by the rubbish they supported - collected so much egg -  that they have tried to find fault with players they did not support.  So they kept quiet about the poor performance of their favoured players and attacking players they dislike from the wqord go.  The same stupid arguments are constantly repeated - even when those have been disproved already repeatedly.  
It is definitely a face saving exercise - they cannot take the egg they had to take because of their rank idiocy.   So they will carry on with their fairy-tales.          
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