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Official Springbok team announced 40 + (1)

Started by kingcorn44 REPLIES1,201 VIEWS· 10 Jun 2023, 14:10
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KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
10 Jun 2023, 14:10
#1
10 Jun 2023, 14:10#1

Jean Kleyn is the + 1, trying to see if they can get clearance from world rugby and register him as a bok


Props: Thomas du Toit (Sharks), Steven Kitshoff (Stormers), Vincent Koch (Stade Francais), Frans Malherbe (Stormers), Ox Nche (Sharks), Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92).
Hookers: Joseph Dweba (Stormers), Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears), Bongi Mbonambi (Sharks).
Locks: Lood de Jager (Wild Knights), Eben Etzebeth (Sharks), Marvin Orie (Stormers), RG Snyman (Munster).
Loose forwards: Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz), Siya Kolisi (Sharks), Evan Roos (Stormers), Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs), Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls), Duane Vermeulen (Ulster), Jasper Wiese (Leicester).
Utility forwards: Jean-Luc du Preez (Sale Sharks), Deon Fourie (Stormers), Franco Mostert (Honda Heat).
Scrumhalves: Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles), Jaden Hendrikse (Sharks), Herschel Jantjies (Stormers), Cobus Reinach (Montpellier), Grant Williams (Sharks).
Flyhalves: Manie Libbok (Stormers), Handre Pollard (Leicester), Damian Willemse (Stormers).
Centres: Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Damian de Allende (Wild Knights), Andre Esterhuizen (Harlequins), Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles).
Outside backs: Kurt-Lee Arendse (Bulls), Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), Canan Moodie (Bulls)

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
10 Jun 2023, 14:17
#2
10 Jun 2023, 14:17#2

Wow, Esterhuizen will be here to salvage another Rugby Championship before being discarded for the World Cup? This has to be one of the weakest ever Bok squads. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2023, 14:39
#3
10 Jun 2023, 14:39#3

Poor Esterhuizen - giving him a chance to play would show there is no desire to win the match.     

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
10 Jun 2023, 15:37
#4
10 Jun 2023, 15:37#4

There is no greater show of lack of desire than watching Damian grope a runner 40m to the tryline to lose a World Cup final appearance. You do make me laugh Michael. 

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
10 Jun 2023, 16:26
#5
10 Jun 2023, 16:26#5
Johan Grobelaar for Joseph Dweba / Ruben, Ruan or JD for orie and Lood/ Elrigh louw or Marcel Theunissen for Deon fourie/ Rikus Pretoruis or Simelane for Kriel/ Dan du plessis should also be there in place of DDA….what a pity… Wilco Louw for Vincent…. No Real Surprise, Thor is there : ) and if Jean Klein can get in, good Bonus.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
10 Jun 2023, 17:19
#6
10 Jun 2023, 17:19#6

Another WeePee and Munster boy that has played under Rassie. One thing is for sure, you have a much better chance to get in the bok side if you've played under Rassie in the last 10 years 

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
10 Jun 2023, 17:23
#7
10 Jun 2023, 17:23#7

You have to be nuts Mpower, Similane for Kriel? Our backline is microlight as it is! We already have major defensive problems with the likes of Arendse et al. Kriel is far, far better than Similane, and much stronger. I never did understand why Kriel wasn't the more preferred option at 12 over Damian, as he hits the line with a lot more force, and speed. Meyer did explore some of that a bit in 2015, in the RC. 

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
10 Jun 2023, 17:29
#8
10 Jun 2023, 17:29#8

Great quota selection, again.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2023, 18:09
#9
10 Jun 2023, 18:09#9

Herschel Jantjies is a very lucky fella.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
10 Jun 2023, 18:39
#10
10 Jun 2023, 18:39#10
No nuts is picking a Player that was performing long ago on the big stage, but has turned into a simple passenger and to even think of putting him @ 12, is also Nuts : )
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,226 posts
10 Jun 2023, 18:54
#11
10 Jun 2023, 18:54#11

When the squad is reduced to 31 (or 33), the maximum size for a World Cup Squad, I would cut:

Props: Thomas du Toit (Sharks), Steven Kitshoff (Stormers), Vincent Koch (Stade Francais), Frans Malherbe (Stormers), Ox Nche (Sharks), Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92).

It is either going to be Thomas or Nsykane that is cut, Transformation will probably mean DuToit is cut. 

Hookers: Joseph Dweba (Stormers), Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears), Bongi Mbonambi (Sharks).
3 hookers will go to the world cup.

Locks: Lood de Jager (Wild Knights), Eben Etzebeth (Sharks), Marvin Orie (Stormers), RG Snyman (Munster).
Orrie is not a test-level player, However, 4 locks will go to the world cup.

Loose forwards: Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz), Siya Kolisi (Sharks), Evan Roos (Stormers), Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs), Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls), Duane Vermeulen (Ulster), Jasper Wiese (Leicester).

Van Staden is a backup fetcher, but I don't see him starting before Kolisi or Roos. Unless Kolisi is still injured.

Utility forwards: Jean-Luc du Preez (Sale Sharks), Deon Fourie (Stormers), Franco Mostert (Honda Heat).

Dumb Luc could be the Joker card bolter, but I don't think Rassie is sold on him or his brother.

Scrumhalves: Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles), Jaden Hendrikse (Sharks), Herschel Jantjies (Stormers), Cobus Reinach (Montpellier), Grant Williams (Sharks).

Reinach is solid, but lacks some of the scrumhalf basics. If Grant Williams can get some test time this year, maybe he will leap frog into third position. 

Flyhalves: Manie Libbok (Stormers), Handre Pollard (Leicester), Damian Willemse (Stormers).

These 3 players will be in the squad. Willemse is also a utility back.

Centres: Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Damian de Allende (Wild Knights), Andre Esterhuizen (Harlequins), Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles).

Jessica is the only outside center which may count in his favour. His defence is ok, but his attack is useless.

Outside backs: Kurt-Lee Arendse (Bulls), Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), Canan Moodie (Bulls)

I am not convinced Modie has a long-term future as a wing- he is fast- but the other guys are faster.
If their was more time, I would like him to get a run at outside centre- to ensure Kriel is out of the picture.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2023, 19:12
#12
10 Jun 2023, 19:12#12
Glaring omissions Gelant Nkosi Janse v Rensburg Dan du Plessis Jantjies Nohamba Grobelaar Wilco Louw Jason Jenkins Elrigh Louw Dan du Preez Marcel Coetzee Poor selections include: Nyakane Orie Mostert Fourie Vermeulen
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
10 Jun 2023, 21:05
#13
10 Jun 2023, 21:05#13

Nkosi, a player who has been bad for his teammates, went AWOL, and is overcome by mental illness... great choice Saffex 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jun 2023, 21:57
#14
10 Jun 2023, 21:57#14
More historical I guess - reality right now is that he is unfortunately out of the picture
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
11 Jun 2023, 07:27
#15
11 Jun 2023, 07:27#15

Players should have gotten a look in

Hookers

I think Grobbler must felt hard done by. Technically he is better than Dweeb and he covers more ground than Bongi

Back row 

Louw and Coetzee should have been part of the training squad. I also feel sorry for a player like Brian Liebenberg who is the tigers captain. 

Scrumhalves 

Bulls van den berg is probably in my top 3 but he has hardly featured for white. So I wonder if he is injured. 

Flyhalves. 

I don’t like that Pollard and Libbok are our only options. Libbok still lacks BMT. But who else? Maybe Goosen and Rob Du Preez

Centre

I think RJVD should have gotten a look in. 

I think Rassie missed a trick and could have 45 players training for three weeks. At least it gives depth up to 4 positions deep in case of injury. 

Willemse is not a flyhalf, he didn’t do so well last year. He is not a great goal kicker. 

Even though Goosen has been a bit out of form, he was still the best goal kicker in the URC. Maine folded with his kicking in the final and in the final round against Munster. So we need a reliable goal kicker.

Nkosi cancelled himself, but on form and with the right attitude he is above Moodie and Arendse. 



DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
11 Jun 2023, 08:51
#16
11 Jun 2023, 08:51#16

It is true, Nkosi in form is better than those two. He went through a period in 2019 when he tightened up his game, and he was actually very good. One of my main gripes was his passivity and tendency to be in no man's land on defence. He also hung out wide waiting for the glory pass to trot over the line. With more work ethic, and consistency in what he did well in 2019, he'd be a sure starter.

Coetzee has never been a test level loose. Meyer tried very hard with him in his prime, and he couldn't deliver. He has never delivered. He lacks the punch in the line, and the rest of his game is a little below average. I don't see what the hype was all about with him to begin with. 

Willemse was appalling last season. He isn't a 10 or a 12, but doesn't really do much at 15 either. He just doesn't have what it takes. He likes to run aimlessly, and fortunately for him, that's enough to fool most South Africans into thinking you have "x-factor", my most loathed rugby term. I don't trust him enough off the bench either. If he wasn't so erratic, he would be a great utility back to just plug a gap and not do anything to rock the boat.

I don't have time to watch domestic rugby anymore, so many of those names are unknowns to me. Every so often I'll watch select games to see a certain player but not often. The only two I have targeted recently are Roos and Libbok. Neither gets a pass mark from me, though there's potential for Roos, but he really does need to show something this year. He flatlined in his showings last season. The most worrying aspect was how the Welsh so easily dealt with him physically one-on-one. He was driven sideways like Lood, or backwards. In a tight game, a real test, there was none of that free running, so he had to work harder to generate momentum, not merely round off breaks from other players with acres of space. He couldn't do it. Can he prove me wrong this year? Well, let's wait and see... 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
11 Jun 2023, 17:57
#17
11 Jun 2023, 17:57#17

Actually there is nobody on Dave’s list of missing players who would make my team. And none of the players Corn eliminates….except for Grant Williams, a potential match winner off the bench.

Moodie strikes me as surviving on one incident….the high ball try he took off the Aussies.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Jun 2023, 21:25
#18
11 Jun 2023, 21:25#18
Pretty useful side of none selected players: 15. Gelant 14. Nkosi 13. JVR 12. Dan du Plessis 11. Tambwe 10. Jantjies 9. Nohamba 1. Gerhard Steenkamp 2. Grobelaar 3. Wilco Louw 4. Jason Jenkins 5. Ruben v Heerden 6. Buthelezi 7. Elrigh Louw 8. Dan du Preez 16. Aker vd Merwe 17. Muchunu 18. Sadie 19. Ruben Schoeman 20. Emmanuel Tsituka 21. Papier 22. Goosen 23. Serfontein
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2023, 06:16
#19
12 Jun 2023, 06:16#19

Has anybody got the schedule for the Rugby Championship this year.   Can anybody please help out.       

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Jun 2023, 07:18
#20
12 Jun 2023, 07:18#20

https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/news/the-rugby-championship-2023-match-schedule/

The Rugby Championship 2023 Match Schedule
04 May 2023



SANZAAR has confirmed the match schedule for the six-match 2023 Rugby Championship.

As is customary in a Rugby World Cup year, the usual 12-match tournament is reduced to a one-round, home or away, six-match tournament in July. Two additional matches including a second Bledisloe Cup match and a second South Africa versus Argentina have also been scheduled in early August following The Rugby Championship and prior to the Rugby World Cup in France that kicks off in early September.

With the FIFA Women's World Cup also taking place in Australia and New Zealand in July-August the availability of venues has been a challenging one. Reflecting this, the New Zealand versus South Africa match will be played at Mt Smart Stadium in Auckland. Australia will play its two home matches at CommBank Stadium in Sydney and the MCG in Melbourne. 

South Africa's home TRC matches will take place in Johannesburg and Pretoria while Argentina will host its home match in Mendoza.

SANZAAR CEO Brendan Morris stated, "Despite the tournament being shortened due to the Rugby World Cup In France later in the year the Tournament will undoubtedly be contested fiercely by the All Blacks, Pumas, Springboks and Wallabies. The prestigious title of TRC Champions means a lot to all of the teams and will allow rugby fans across Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa an exciting look at the teams prior to them heading off to the Rugby World Cup."

"The SANZAAR teams have a proud record at the Rugby World Cup and The Rugby Championship plays a big part in that year-in-year-out, being one of the pre-eminent rugby tournaments on the international rugby calendar that includes many of the best players in the world."

Click HERE for FULL MATCH SCHEDULE


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Jun 2023, 07:49
#21
12 Jun 2023, 07:49#21
Moz, Moody is a very cool character. I'm constantly impressed by how solid he is. Never seems flustered or rushed. Time will tell but he's up there for me in terms of guys I'm very confident about.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Jun 2023, 07:56
#22
12 Jun 2023, 07:56#22
Moodie is also deceptively strong - great prospect, is certainly the real deal
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Jun 2023, 08:30
#23
12 Jun 2023, 08:30#23

His debut try vs Aus unforgettable

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
12 Jun 2023, 09:09
#24
12 Jun 2023, 09:09#24

It wasn't especially fantastic. He caught an uncontested high ball that Aussie 11 should have jumped for, and ran into open space. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Jun 2023, 10:42
#25
12 Jun 2023, 10:42#25
Doos shut the fuck up you ignorant negative twat
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
12 Jun 2023, 12:03
#26
12 Jun 2023, 12:03#26

I'm literally describing what happened. You have exceedingly low standards Saddex. That, and you have a habit of lying. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Jun 2023, 13:16
#27
12 Jun 2023, 13:16#27
Reality and what you describe are two different things you ignorant prick? What have I lied about Doos, name the precise lies I have told you useless prick You are so fucking pathetic and that will be evidenced by your inability to provide the evidence of my lying Waste of fucking space
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
12 Jun 2023, 14:50
#28
12 Jun 2023, 14:50#28
To pull that try of you need very good judgement, timing and execution….and yes Moodie should prove a bit more on the Bok stage, but what a start and the Rest, as With Arendse will fall into place.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jun 2023, 15:16
#29
12 Jun 2023, 15:16#29
It’s less than 4 weeks before we play Oz…this WC year seems to have less prep time, more reliance on a few veterans and players even more spread all over the globe.
There is a lot  of work to be done and given that, a likely reversion to tactics that have worked in the past.
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
12 Jun 2023, 15:48
#30
12 Jun 2023, 15:48#30

The try was a simple catch, and no defenders who challenged him. The Aussie 11 stood flatfooted waiting for the ball to drop into his arms. A massive defensive error. This try sums up how the Boks cannot create and require open space and glaring errors.

Your lies? You lied about Kerevi never running over Damian. You lied about numerous gaffs from Damian and Steph. You lied a out Morné's defence, passing, assists, and try record. You have lied many times Saddex. You are consistently joined by Michael in always refuting video evidence and throwing a tantrum. You also lied about Erasputin taking the Boks from 7th to 5th. When I pointed the Boks were 6th at one point in the World Cup, you called me a liar. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Jun 2023, 16:53
#31
12 Jun 2023, 16:53#31
No twat you lied about Kerevi running over DA - kindly provide the evidence of than run over you lying twat Numerous gafs is not evidence you stupid prick Morne’s defence is a fucking joke evidenced this very last weekend with the Cheetahs flyhalf running through Morne’s pathetic attempt at a tackle for a try Doos you are such easy pickings. You fucking liar
DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
12 Jun 2023, 18:47
#32
12 Jun 2023, 18:47#32

Saddex, you have never, ever provided any substance on this forum. You insult others but have demonstrated nothing but arrogance, vulgarity, and errancy mingled with lies. You are most assuredly a liar. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Jun 2023, 20:05
#33
12 Jun 2023, 20:05#33
Provide the evidence little man - talk is cheap. The fact that you refuse to provide the evidence of Kerevi running over DA proves you are a liar Until you man up and provide that evidence, shut the fuck up you waste of space Grow a pair liar and man up and furnish me with the evidence And while you are at it, talk us through useless Morne’s pathetic attempt at tackling the Cheetahs 10 on Saturday You are such easy pickings
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
13 Jun 2023, 07:51
#34
13 Jun 2023, 07:51#34

So nobody is worried that Gelant got dropped even though he was the form player the previous season. 

But then again he hasn't set the world alight in France and have been used at 13. Also warmed the bench a lot. 

Maybe he got exposed playing in a very physical and demanding league. 

Still don't know how fat Trev made it as he too hardly played and can't even last more than a minute. He is a liability. Where as at least Malherbe can go 65 min and at a push a full game. 

Just remember what happened to England, they lost their prop in their first 5 min and had to endure for the rest of the game. 

Further there is a new law, which ever team that can't field enough players and in the even of an uncontested scrum, then that team need to take one player off. So it make sense having props that can play both sides. 

So for me it is Du Toit

But , Rassie have to hit those quota numbers. So it will be Ox, Bongi and Trev starting. Then it will be our best front row   

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
13 Jun 2023, 08:17
#35
13 Jun 2023, 08:17#35

Our front rowers are looking a bit jaded. I used to call it a strength, as we always a near like-for-like transition. This could come back to haunt us. I haven't watched Gelant since he played last for the Boks. Of all our options at 15, he is the next best after Willie. Against Wales, he really struggled with our lateral attack from deep. Willie is good enough to still show flashes of brilliance, but Gelant couldn't. No mark against him though. The coaching really is stunting our better players. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Jun 2023, 22:30
#36
13 Jun 2023, 22:30#36
Gelant was brilliant for the Stormers and poorly used on the wing by the Boks - he is a gem of a player - our next Willie Rassie has missed the boat Our frontrow and backup frontrow are the best two frontrows in the game
MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
14 Jun 2023, 20:32
#37
14 Jun 2023, 20:32#37
Yes gelant is really good and better by the Stormers then for the Boks …and I also believe that Rassie,s lack of expanding our Playing style, definitely puts a damper on some of the players natural style of play….i think our Front row is up there with the best, but Ireland, France even the Scottie’s has become very competitive in that department to….This is going to be exiting Season.
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
15 Jun 2023, 11:26
#38
15 Jun 2023, 11:26#38

I think Gelant is the natural successor to Willie. Like I said before. The axis of Libbok, Willemse and Galant were the real reasons why the Stormers won the URC. That said, Willemse finds himself now in two position. He has been playing at 15 for the Stormers and 10 for the Boks.

It really baffles me of the coaches thinking. 

I know that you want to retain players in the system and will push them into positions over selecting specialist. Then, don't forget how amazing Dan Du Plessis has been this season. 

So Willemse is a fantastic player with great work ethic but he has been moved around too much. His primary position was fly halve, but because he is an instinctive player and tries to run too much with the ball and do too many fancy things without his players know what he is doing

DE
Deus Ex LemurPro2,355 posts
15 Jun 2023, 12:15
#39
15 Jun 2023, 12:15#39

Willemse is mediocre. Can't succeed in any position. The black De Allende. 

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
15 Jun 2023, 13:14
#40
15 Jun 2023, 13:14#40

Just remember how mediocre Frans Steyn was from time to time. He wanted to be a 10, but excelled at 12, but his best position was 15. 

Where as if you look at the best players in the world, Carter only played for a short time at 12 and that was when Mehrtens was still around. But they never moved him around. 

Nonu and Ma ah Non both started on the wing but settled at 12. 

Willemse can't keep going on like this. He needs to pick a spot. Is it 15? 

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