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FORUM / RUGBY /  Our future lies in the North says Dr Brendon Venter

Our future lies in the North says Dr Brendon Venter

Started by Beeno148 REPLIES633 VIEWS· 03 Apr 2015, 11:58
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Apr 2015, 11:58
#1
03 Apr 2015, 11:58#1

Ex Supersport

The prevailing perception among South Africans is that unbelievable double standards have existed for a long time as far as Sanzar’s judicial process is concerned. (PLEASE ADD IN THE INCREDIBLY BENT REFFING THAT ALSO GOES ON MAKE AFAIR CONTEST NOT EVEN REMOTELY POSSIBLY IN MANY CASES)  Whether Frans Steyn is guilty or innocent is not the issue. South African supporters find the process problematic. (YOU BET WE DO - VENTER IS TALKING ABOUT SOUTH AFRICAN SUPPORTERS - NOT OU ROOITWIT/ASS)

The overriding sense is that there are a different set of rules for South Africa and New Zealand. The standard ban for a New Zealander seems to be one week but for a South African, the standard ban is between four and five weeks. (EXACTLY SO)

Steyn, who was originally cleared of a tip tackle, has been handed a five-week ban on appeal – an unprecedented move – while Hika Elliot was suspended for only a week for a shoulder charge (NO TWO CHARGES) in the Sharks-Chiefs match. Meanwhile, Liam Messam was soon cleared after being cited for a chokehold tackle. (WHAT ABOUT MARSHALL PUTTING HIS KNEE INTO REINACH'S BACK?)

Many South Africans are of the opinion that Sanzar is not run as a three-way partnership but rather as a purely one-sided affair, with Australia and New Zealand’s best interests at heart.  (HEAR HEAR THE GET THE JARPIE SYNDROME!!)

Moreover, they are questioning whether there is an underlying conflict between the three parties, and if the relationships are as healthy as they should be. Now that the Sanzar deal has been signed, has the fear of SA breaking away and joining up with the north dissipated?

The irony is that Australia and New Zealand need South Africa far more than South Africa needs them. The general feeling among South African rugby supporters is that maybe the moment has arrived to move on and experience competition in Europe.(HEAR HEAR IF ITS AT ALL POSSIBLE LETS MOVE!!!)

For one, the time zones and reduced travel would benefit SA sides. To offer an example, I have flown the overnight flight to London many times, and you can literally play a match two days later. On the flipside, when playing in Australasia, it takes a whole week to acclimatise to an eight-hour time difference and the journey to the Antipodes is far more taxing on the players.

OUR FUTURE LIES IN THE NORTH

South African teams playing up north in top-level tournaments is without a doubt something that is going to happen in the future. The reality is that everything today is about television rights, and it’s just much better viewing when we don’t have to get up at six in the morning to catch a game.

What people really want is to watch rugby from five in the afternoon until seven at night. As much as we can sit and debate it, that is just the honest truth. It serves as one of the primary reasons why I believe the Super Rugby product has become rather stale.

Moreover, dwindling crowd numbers at matches in New Zealand must be an unbelievable worry to the men in suits. In stark contrast, Saracens played Harlequins this past Saturday at Wembley in front of a record crowd for a club match – 84 068. Meanwhile, the England-France Six Nations match was viewed by a record-breaking TV audience of 9.63 million.

The above statistics prove that rugby is growing and going somewhere in Europe. In stark contrast, I don’t think the oval game is going anywhere in Australasia. In Australia, there are a host of competing sports and in New Zealand hardly anyone goes to watch rugby games any more.

We are almost sick and tired of playing the same adversaries each and every year. As such, I believe that SA sides playing in Europe would be brilliant, different and very interesting for the viewing public.  (AGREE)

Our players like testing themselves up north, and, crucially, they could play that competition in the summer (our winter), which would strengthen our local competition as well. If you play in the months of March, April, May, June, July, August and September, in my opinion, you’d have a magnificent competition that makes so much sense. (CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN THIS PLEASE)

The solution I would propose is to allow New Zealand and Australia to continue to compete against each other, owing to their proximity and similar time zones, and then look to include the likes of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga to form a five-team competition in South Africa’s absence. (GREAT IDEA!!!)

There are so many accompanying advantages in South Africa joining Europe, the question I would ask is, why would we want to remain tied to a competition with dwindling numbers? (WHY INDEED)

Well said Brendon!

The other big plusses of going north is the money. It would mean a huge injection of funds and enable us to keep our players - this is huge.

Also very very important I believe we would get a far fairer deal when it comes to adjudication.   The present loaded set up is intolerable to any self respecting South African rugby fan.

Its time  to get going on making the transition. If the timetable can workand the NH wants us its a no brainer really.


We will have to leave the Ozzies and kbbs eeking out a meagre living. Hahhahahahahahaha.

Look if we could get a fair adjudication process on and off the field and if we could have enough cash to keep our players then yes we could stay but to me these two factors end any debate.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Apr 2015, 12:32
#2
03 Apr 2015, 12:32#2
Trust someone from up north to jump in at any moment to start explaining how it would ruin the rugby in the NH hemisphere and how the presence of SH players have destroyed he NH rugby, and, and, and.........
I have been saying for ages that this is the way to go for SA. The new SANZAR deal is a balls up and does not have any benefit for SA. Nothing.  
PO
polyboyClub Pro601 posts
03 Apr 2015, 12:32
#3
03 Apr 2015, 12:32#3

Going north is as much an admittance SA teams cant compete with NZ teams and have had enough of being beaten. Playing in an inferior competition will not improve SA game.

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
03 Apr 2015, 12:50
#4
03 Apr 2015, 12:50#4
    it would be understandable that a hooligan like you writes the above sh¡t, all whinning and crying,.... but a journalist????????
this is embarrassing for the SA rugby,....

Oh, and the new SR format and the TV deal has already been signed,..... it begins in 2016 and ends 5 years later, if I'm not wrong,...... so despite all the moaning and whinning SA have to stay in Super Rugby untill 2021
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
03 Apr 2015, 15:50
#5
03 Apr 2015, 15:50#5
That is unfortunately true, AB. Typical of the limp-wrist ANC lackeys who are supposed to be running our sports federations. If anybody thank that flying all over the show, week after week, playing Asian and Arg sides is going to benefit us in a big way, then so be it. I have no confidence in that bearing any fruit.
You could also argue that the NZ and Oz sides do not have the balls to go flying all over the world. They have had the benefit of short stints to since the start of Super Rugby. You could try and argue that they are now flying over to Arg as well, but they made sure that that base is well covered as well. The Argies always start off with a flip over to SA, followed by one at home. Then they fly all the way to Australsia on a long stint against OZ and NZ as well. Nah. You lot down there have had the cream of the deal all the way. No wonder the spectator numbers are going down by the year.
Two/three years ago I did everything possible not to miss a single S15 game. Nowadays, I couldn't care less if I miss an entire weekend of S15.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
03 Apr 2015, 16:09
#6
03 Apr 2015, 16:09#6
We need to go up North, our rugby won't survive with New Zealand and Australia holding us back.  
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
03 Apr 2015, 16:21
#7
03 Apr 2015, 16:21#7
 Holding you back ? How ? Bugger me you already got this nonsense conference rubbish this year so your lot might get to a semi by avoiding as many Kiwi teams as possible .Truth is you think you might win a few up north .And all this S18s nonsense certainly wasnt our fecking idea .Thought you saffas had more balls but I suppose 1 game in 4 years or one series win waaaaay back in 2009 has made you into a sook like that bean-dik-dik ..But going on your last few games'oop north 'I dont think theres much joy their either although you might get the odd win over Italy.Cant even remember the last time your lot won a s15 ,even the Aussies who SA assume to be of lesser quality can win the odd S15 .And only the Bulls heve any runs on the board at all so how well do your other non winners reckon they will do against teams like the useless saracens ?I hate seeing our boys not smashing SA and Aussie teams instead of each other and I am sure many saffas would rather that too Your lot made the bed now its yours to lie in .


















BE
becsPro4,378 posts
03 Apr 2015, 19:19
#8
03 Apr 2015, 19:19#8
 Yawn...no thanks
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
03 Apr 2015, 19:45
#9
03 Apr 2015, 19:45#9
No thanks don't want us drawn into playing boring rugby reducing us to second rate sides.
To be the best you need to compete with the best.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
03 Apr 2015, 20:37
#10
03 Apr 2015, 20:37#10
 It's actually a constant surprise to me that any South African actually manages to leave the confines of their home, let alone travel to another country.To be tainted by such ugliness, stupidity and sheer uselessness when you leave your beloved floor length mirrors must be sheer hell for you all....I tip my hat, I really do !
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Apr 2015, 21:41
#11
03 Apr 2015, 21:41#11
 I think economics will rule in the end. The player drain escalates year on year and after the RWC more will go.  If we do compete up North we could stop this player drain.
Also we must surely all be very weary of rigged games. 
Finally rugby in the NH is on the rise. England, Ireland and Wales are getting stronger and with all their imports the Club sides are fine. 13500 watched the Stormers Hurricanes game in nz but they get 83,000 for big games etc. 
If we do play Oz and nz some time we must ensure oz and NZ refs dont officiate. Lest break the get the J arpy agenda forever.
Oz and nz will of course really struggle financially but given their behaviour few tears will be shed. Poor Argentina will learn all about down under reffing if they ever become serious threats.
The down under oaks have a few years to mend their ways and it might help but in the end economics will probably win the day.
What I dont fully understand is why Venter thinks it can work. Anybody able to throw light on this
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
03 Apr 2015, 23:57
#12
03 Apr 2015, 23:57#12
 Off you go then Hasbeeno. This smells of a "tail between the legs" mentality. Can't beat NZ despite having 4 times the players in Senior rugby so we'll slope off to the land of ten man and rolling maul rugger instead.Good luck with that improving your running rugby skills!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Apr 2015, 02:28
#13
04 Apr 2015, 02:28#13
Geography is one thing....seasons are another. Are we going to be playing Saracens on New Years day in Bloemfontein? The answer is to show some guts and stand up for our rights within the system....there was a South African lawyer on the Appeals Panel. He didn't seem to be very effective.

These things are basic. If we can't man up within Sanzar we won't man up in the NH.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 09:27
#14
04 Apr 2015, 09:27#14
 I have often lamented how weak our response has been. SARU has failed dismally in this regard.However there is every chance there we will get abetter deal up North. Nz and Oz are in cahoots as the get the Jarpy letter proved and as events on and off the fi eld also prove.
We will get abetter deal regardless of SARU not defending our players right to a fair deal.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:07
#15
04 Apr 2015, 12:07#15
The one side pushing this has always been Sarries, big surprise ! However, they have just parted company with one of their main cheerleaders for this idea ( all very swift and swept under the carpet somewhat ) so perhaps even they will shut up about it now. 
Logistics, as Mozart rightly says, have also been a very important issue. 

And another thing, most of us are not interested in the idea and do not want it, so maybe that should be taken into consideration ? 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:25
#16
04 Apr 2015, 12:25#16
 Becs you are not most of us.Venter thinks its a distinct possibilty and he knows w hat is potting in the UK.It would of course be a huge boost to the comp to have us particpating. Lift the whole status of things.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:26
#17
04 Apr 2015, 12:26#17
 The more progressively minded would love to have us I am sure.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:28
#18
04 Apr 2015, 12:28#18
There doesn't seem to be any takers Beeno. No one wants the SA teams just their players. Kiwis always enjoy playing SA teams so I guess we are stuck with each other.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:38
#19
04 Apr 2015, 12:38#19
Beeno: after reflecting on world-wide rugby trends & then focusing on SA play it has become clear to me that SA style of rugby (emphasis on forwards play & the dark arts) relies too much on favorable ref calls. Who really knows what tricks the SA players are up to? 
My advice is to stick with Meyer and try and play real & clean rugby, i.e. NZ style. Kiwis play open rugby which is less suspect & which the refs find easier to be consistent on. All these scrum re-sets and questionable rolling mauls point to shady goings on in the forwards.  
SA players might have had a better chance fooling the NH refs with their well practiced dark arts but they don't want you guys. One has to be sympathetic
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:39
#20
04 Apr 2015, 12:39#20
Becs is not representative of opinion over there. rather listen to Dr Venter who understands how things work over there having been director of rugby at Saracens. Bec's status as a spectaor doesnt really match his credentials JW.
No we should move North if logistics etc make it possible. I have had more than enough of bent refs and loosing our players overseas. 
It will be tough on the kiwis and ozzies I know but they deserve all that comes their way of course! They will have to halve their salaries etc. Next what will undoubtedly happen is the thieves will fall out amongst themsleves and implode accuse eachother of cheating the saffas and all the sordid detaisl will emmerge. We could then  could see the hilarious sight of them begging us to come back. Hahahahahhahahhahahahahaha.Meanwhile we will be rolling in cash securing all our players and be at number 1 in the world. 
Even if the down under oaks mended their ways economics will decide this. We would be a huge draw card overseas and so if the logistics can work it could happen.If it does the kiwis and ozzies are in the dwang big time.  
Its not as impossible as som e might think.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:47
#21
04 Apr 2015, 12:47#21
 Things are looking bleak for SA rugby. Confused identity (10 man vs 15 man rugby); refs don't understand the black art of forward play as practiced by the SA players; and no one wants you in their hemisphere. Don't worry, bad news can't continue forever.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 12:54
#22
04 Apr 2015, 12:54#22
 JW if you ask nicely we may give you guys a small loan to keep you going. BwahahahahahahahahaWhat will you do when you cant rely on the SA contribution? The bottom would droip out of your rugby world.
We could see the two hemispheres fighting over us. But the down under oaks have no aces in thei r hand not a single one.
What we need is Dr Venter to become President of SARU instead of the hapless Oregan Hoskins.  He could then pull all this together and we could bid the down under oaks a fond farewell. Oh happy days!!!!! Watching fair games with our best players on the field -  what a pleasure!!!!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 13:04
#23
04 Apr 2015, 13:04#23
 Beeno: the SA players will all be playing for NH teams anyway. SA coffers will be empty.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2015, 13:14
#24
04 Apr 2015, 13:14#24
 JW you are getting it at last. Actually we are currently in trouble as we are loosing too many quality players. The anc decision to have a 6th Super rugby team will make matters worse. 
Moving North and earning big money via the NH comps will sort matters. 
Our loan to you will be at prime plus 10% given your high risk staus JW!

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 13:19
#25
04 Apr 2015, 13:19#25
 Beeno: the SA players won't play for SA teams they will play for NH teams and Japan as the money is better. Hence, SA teams won't exist & neither will the revenue in the SA confers. 
Kiwis may help with a memorial fund for SA rugby but I can't promise anything as SA is well know for corruption & this is something kiwis abhor. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
04 Apr 2015, 14:23
#26
04 Apr 2015, 14:23#26
One small problem in that assumption JW. SA rugby would share in the money that is pumped into European rugby. Think about it. 
Australasian rugby would loose out due to the loss of revenue caused the absence of SA and SA supporters/viewers. 
BTW. Is there any particular reason why the kiwi supporters become so vocal everytime this subject comes up?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2015, 14:33
#27
04 Apr 2015, 14:33#27
Ceradyne: kiwis always speak out whenever delusions are muttered when it comes to rugby matters. 
Eventually there may be few national comps like s15 but only test matches &  the RWC.  We will see, economics will be the driving force.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Apr 2015, 11:50
#28
06 Apr 2015, 11:50#28
 The only problem I can now see is we might lose our kiwi frineds here if we go north..Seldom have i been enter tained so royally by such fine comedy! hahahahahhahahahahaha
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Apr 2015, 12:18
#29
06 Apr 2015, 12:18#29
 Given that Saracens is currently £41 million in debt and under investigation into the financial irregularities of its imaginative accounting system and, as I said, their main cheerleader for this idiotic plan has been given his marching orders this past week or so, I would not be so sure that even the close SA tie up you have with this Club will persist much longer ! In fact, the poor Club could go under, be heavily fined and/or have points deducted from it at this rate. Watch this space......
Bath are also under investigation for their " creative " accounting and are also millions in debt
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 Apr 2015, 12:21
#30
06 Apr 2015, 12:21#30
Beeno: as you guys have not received an invitation from the NH (I cannot understand why) I have taken the liberty of writing to them on your behalf. I am expecting a positive reply, one must remain optimistic 
We will tell Polly to put the kettle on so you can all have tea, lol Somehow a fanciful nursery rhyme seems appropriate.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Apr 2015, 12:42
#31
06 Apr 2015, 12:42#31
 Thanks JW I knew you would see the light and come thorough  for us . Are you the Justin MArshall on our board?OF COURSE NOT. 

WONDER WHEN OU ROOI ASS WILL HAVE RECOVERED SUFFICIENTLY TO RETURN. Its 
Toucjhing to see ab ass and him such good friends! They hAve  a lot in common - both support nz sides an d both are asses! Hahahahahahahahhaha
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Apr 2015, 12:52
#32
06 Apr 2015, 12:52#32
 Thing is, JW, they don't expect an invitation....they are just telling us ut is what we want and for the good of us all ! 
Clearly no-one read the article by some ex-French Internationals/Captains during the Six Nations......saying your mercenaries had done nothing but harm to their game and their national side and they want you all gone !! It was quite amusing, Daily Mail, I believe. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 Apr 2015, 12:55
#33
06 Apr 2015, 12:55#33
Beeno: not sure what this sudden fascination with the word "ass" is or why you feel obliged to bold & underline it. It must be a symptom of some diabolical malady so I advise you to get it checked or you could end up looking like this poor chap. 

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
06 Apr 2015, 13:01
#34
06 Apr 2015, 13:01#34
 Mr. Been,

"It will be tough on the kiwis and ozzies I know but they deserve all that comes their way of course! They will have to halve their salaries etc. Next what will undoubtedly happen is the thieves will fall out amongst themsleves and implode accuse eachother of cheating the saffas and all the sordid detaisl will emmerge. We could then  could see the hilarious sight of them begging us to come back. Hahahahahhahahhahahahahaha.
Meanwhile we will be rolling in cash securing all our players and be at number 1 in the world."

I'm beggining to seriously worry about you. Are you really an adult? Or we have been for a while arguing and discussing with a child?
What you wrote is the fairy tale of a 6 yaers old child,...... which finish with the typical "and they were happy ever after".

Anyway, you are right in one thing, going up north would very probably have been the best option for the SA.
But it's not posssible at least untill 2020-21, and for then the SA rugby will very probably be in serious and worrying situation.
What the SARU has made in the last years is going to be bad for the SH rugby but worst for the SA rugby.  In their striving for having 6 teams (when they barely coul d complete 4 competitive teams)  they blew out the Super Rugby competition as it was (IMO one of the main reasons why in the pro era the SH has remained above the NH).
The new format is  BS, it's not going to solve any of the problems the comp had but will add more and, the most important, it's going to water down the competition itself after adding the 6th SA team, the argie and the japanese team.
But all those teams are gonna be in the SA conference. So we'll have 6 saffa teams much less competitive because there will be 6 instead of 5, because much more forwards will head to the NH after the RWC and the few quality backline players produced will very probably follow them and because they'll be competing, mainly, btwin themselves and with another 2 teams even more weak.

I can only see one outcome for the SA rugby and doesn't look good.
It would have been better to leave the SR comp as it was (or even reduce the number of teams) or to go up north, participate in the earnings of the TV deals that allows the NH teams to poach the SH players and retain some of them, not all of them but this would allow to retain the most importants.
But the SARU has promoted, fighted for and choosen the worst possible choice.


"Toucjhing to see ab ass and him such good friends! They hAve  a lot in common - both support nz sides and both are asses! Hahahahahahahahhaha"

as I said,...... 6 years old

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Apr 2015, 16:20
#35
06 Apr 2015, 16:20#35
 ab ass  (Thanks for the picture of the ass JW!!) I have explained a number of times why us having a 6th franchise is no good. The reason is purely racist in any case and has been foisted in SARU by the anc.
However you must understand one thing which I have also explained more than once (these kbbs are a tiresome lot!) we could have 10 or more super 15 teams but for our players going overseas. 
So us having our own sides in NH comps would even sort out them not having too many saffas in their home based side. A win, win situation. All they need to do is cut some non perfoming sides and bingo you will have classy league etc. We are currently propping up many of their sides and particualry the French twits!
How do you explain these things to a youngster wet behind the ears like ou ab ass 
Hey ab ass why not use this pic as your avatar as folks would then know immediately who they are dealing with! 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Apr 2015, 16:22
#36
06 Apr 2015, 16:22#36
 Lady Becs is just playing hard to get. Secretly she would be over the moon t oSee SA ging North. It would make the NH rugby. Its that simple.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
06 Apr 2015, 16:53
#37
06 Apr 2015, 16:53#37
 definitively a 6 years old child,.......



"we could have 10 or more super 15 teams but for our players going overseas."

Wrong, very wrong. You could have 6 or 7 forward packs but only 2 or 3 competitive backlines.
SA have a huge problem here, it's not producing quality backline players. Very few have gone to Europe, that's not the problem re the backline.
Currently Sharks and Stormers' backlines are not up to standard, they have huge deficiencies and many sub-par players.
Lions and Cheetahs' barely can reach the SR level and the only one that can be catalogued as up to SR standard is that of the Bulls
But even this last one is very far from the backlines of the Crusaders, Hurricanes, Chiefs, Highlanders, Waratahs or Brumbies.

The few backline players gone to Europe or Japan wouldn't change this
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Apr 2015, 18:56
#38
06 Apr 2015, 18:56#38

ab ass read Moz's peace re Coaches etc. and in particular strategy. There is nothing wrong with our backs and never has been.
Dont be misled by ou JW 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
06 Apr 2015, 19:37
#39
06 Apr 2015, 19:37#39
 Beeno: good to hear you are satisfied with your backs
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
06 Apr 2015, 20:16
#40
06 Apr 2015, 20:16#40
 Have you always been deluded, Beeno, or is it a new thing ? I suggest a trip to the Dr, forthwith ( but not your favourite " Dr " Venter ) 
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