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FORUM / RUGBY /  Pablo Matera.....the best in the game?

Pablo Matera.....the best in the game?

Started by Mozart65 REPLIES1,845 VIEWS· 26 Nov 2020, 19:26
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 19:26
#1
26 Nov 2020, 19:26#1

Watching Matera’s massive contributions in the Bargie win over NZ, this is one Bargie who would be on my world team sheet. He runs, breaks tackles, offloads and turns over balls. His turnover in about the 70th minute was as consequential as Louw’s turnover against Wales.


It’s great to see a genuine flank exhibiting all the skills which make him a complete player.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Nov 2020, 22:33
#2
26 Nov 2020, 22:33#2
Great player as is the Argie 7
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 23:27
#3
26 Nov 2020, 23:27#3

Mozart

I always rated Matera as a good loosie.    A much harder worker in the game than Louw was.      

Louw was  a good loosie when at his top - but by 2019 was a serious over the hill bench player,  He redeemed himself somewhat by making a turnover you claimed won the game against Wales after a previous attempt caused a penalty which put Wales deep in the Springbok 22 and led to their try.            

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2020, 05:16
#4
27 Nov 2020, 05:16#4

Nope Dud getting himself trapped behind the scrum led to the Wales try. As for Louw’s role in the Welsh try it was mininimal...given he wasn’t on the field. Feel free to retract your claim:


69'Substitute on - Francois Louw , South Africa69'Player substituted - Siya Kolisi , South Africa68'Scrum Wales. If you thought we were in danger of moving on from the box-kick-a-thon, never fear, normal service has resumed! Both teams went to the boot continually just now before Malcolm Marx has the ball ripped from him in contact. The scrum will set about 37 metres out from Wales' line, just as Francois Steyn comes onto field. Drop kick territory, maybe?66'16-16 Conversion - Leigh Halfpenny , Wales65'And Halfpenny drills the near-sideline conversion! We're all tied up at 16-a
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
27 Nov 2020, 09:56
#5
27 Nov 2020, 09:56#5

Another sub gaff! Like the Morné who lost the Dunedin test after he left the field with the scores level! It's amazing how sloppy Lügnerin's lies are. 

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
27 Nov 2020, 13:19
#6
27 Nov 2020, 13:19#6

A much harder worker in the game than Louw was.  

You have to give it to the Oom, he never lets an opportunity slip to put the knife into one of his pet hates

As for Louw’s role in the Welsh try it was mininimal

He seems to be talking about a penalty Louw conceded, not the Welsh try.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2020, 13:42
#7
27 Nov 2020, 13:42#7
The Welsh try was PSDT’s fault apparently and the try de Allende scored against the Welsh showed just how average and weak he is You could not make this shit up The perfect comedy or is it a tragedy?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2020, 15:10
#8
27 Nov 2020, 15:10#8

Mozart

Louw gave  away the penalty that caused the Welsh to have a line-out deep in the Springbok 22 - the process ended in a scrum - after the line-out and that scrum preceded the try scored by the Welsh,   This is the real situation and not case blamed Du Toit for the try being scored.,    You could not make up the shit -t was totally delusion and border on craziness,   

    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2020, 17:04
#9
27 Nov 2020, 17:04#9

Dumb, dumb, dumb Wanker.......look at the timeline. Louw came on the field at minute 69. At minute 65 Halfpenny was converting that try. Louw had nothing to do with it.

That timeline is copied and pasted from ESPN.

The thing about you that’s so precious is the insults you throw at other posters when you yourself are dead wrong. It happens almost every day....yet you never think to change your behavior. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2020, 00:00
#10
28 Nov 2020, 00:00#10

By the way id\f Louw was so good - why was he on the bench, and not in the starting line-up?   Because he was just not good enough = end of story,    

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Nov 2020, 00:14
#11
28 Nov 2020, 00:14#11
Louw is at best a solid player and solid should not be playing test matches
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
28 Nov 2020, 01:48
#12
28 Nov 2020, 01:48#12

Why did Louw make game changing contributions and not Kolisi? Why is Louw's body of work superior. I'm not even a big Louw fan, I always rated Brussow as the rightful Bok 6, before 2009! Just giving the man his dues. He produced. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2020, 07:11
#13
28 Nov 2020, 07:11#13

In 2015 he produced - in 2019 he was nothing more than a bench p layer coming in very late in the game.        

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2020, 17:19
#14
28 Nov 2020, 17:19#14

So not even an acknowledgement of your dishonest  mistake saying Louw contributed to the Welsh try. If it wasn’t for the fact that the timeline shows he wasn’t even on the field, you would still be pushing this rubbish.

What a low life liar you are Wanker....I see right through you fake.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2020, 10:42
#15
29 Nov 2020, 10:42#15

Mozart

So I was wrong and apologize about it - wish you would apologize for all the thousands of  posts wrongly accusing players and then deny posts that you did post and  also the stupid deductions and false match descriptions you put on site as well. 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2020, 17:42
#16
29 Nov 2020, 17:42#16

An apology followed by an attack.... so typical. You have NEVER seen me be factually wrong about a player and leave it uncorrected. What you are alluding to is opinions.....I’m entitled to mine, you are entitled to your’s.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2020, 20:21
#17
29 Nov 2020, 20:21#17

Wait a bit - in one game - the WC final last year  - you gave four descriptions of what happened and all four was false.    So go back and see what you wrote about  the try that De Allende made a mistake and the real problem was that Willie spilled the ball.  That one you even denied  that you wrote it,   Then there was the allegation = again faked by you about the May ball carry where you claimed that May beat De Allende on the outside when in fact he stepped  De Allende on the inside -same as Kolbe did with Farrell.   Shall I repeat the other two as well?   

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
29 Nov 2020, 22:11
#18
29 Nov 2020, 22:11#18

You are always wrong, you will aways be wrong. When you aren't "wrong", you arw simply lying. That'll never change.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2020, 22:12
#19
29 Nov 2020, 22:12#19

Stop lying Wanker. Willie never spilled the ball he was arm wrapped from behind waiting for the support runner where Dud Allende was supposed to be....Kolbe was too far away.

Yes May did step Dud on the inside.....which I freely admitted after having it pointed out. Nonetheless he had May trapped near his goal line and failed, for the umpteenth time, to make a simple open field tackle. 

Repeat what you like..I’m confident I was absolutely factual.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2020, 23:08
#20
29 Nov 2020, 23:08#20

That was not the incident not the Willie incident you described first  you described first liar.  When caught out that you lied about how Farrell moved out to cover Willie and  De Allende did not use the gap so created - but ran straight into the counter-defense De Allende destroyed a try scoring opportunity.    That incident never took place in accordance with the description you gave  and was a total fabrication  given by you.    What really happened was that De Allende drew in the defenders and helped by Du Toit there was a quick recovery of the ball, which went to Willie, who  had  three players outside of him and two defenders in front,   When tackled Willie spilt the ball - if he passed it a try-scoring opportunity was very likely, 

When that BS of yours was exposed as total garbage you tried to find another incident where Willie carried the ball for about 8 meters (which you turned into 20 meters) - tried to outrun Ford - which he was unable to do and then made a shit pass to Kolbe who managed to hang onto the ball and ran straight into the counter-defense - whereupon De Allende save the situation by ensuring quick recovery of the ball.   There never was a try\scoring opportunity and it was so innocuous that it was not even included in the  Extended Highlights Package of the Game.    Another total fabrication of am incident during the game. 

As to the "simple open-field tackle" - it was not a simple open\field tackle and only a liar of your sort will say it was.            

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2020, 00:16
#21
30 Nov 2020, 00:16#21

There was only one incident when Willie broke outside Ford, breaching the line and Dud Allende trotted behind the move instead of supporting the ball carrier. Utterly useless by Dud.


And if a Springbok 12 can’t tackle an opposing back near his try line and touch, with a good angle.....then that Springbok 12 is a useless open field tackler. But we know that already..


What are your other two lies?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2020, 00:34
#22
30 Nov 2020, 00:34#22

And for your easy reference, here is my first reference to the incidents above.....note the date:


mozart

Hall Of Fame

32236 posts

Nov 06, 2019, 02:12

Firstly Willie has the ball opposite Ford and slides outside him forcing the gap. Allende is outside him, marked by Farrell. As Willie looks to break free Farrell turns inside to help. That's the moment a smart, fast centre would have gone outside Farrell and been in position for an offload.


Allende inexplicably tries to run through the gap Farrell has closed and finds himself blocked behind Farrell. So he slows down and trots behind the move. Willie looks to offload to his right where Allende should  be....nada....Kolbe who was on the touchline tries to get in position but he's  too far away for an offload. Chance lost.


Secondly the Boks get the ball well inside the Pom 22....it goes to Allende with a pod of 3 forwards opposite him.....then a gap in the Pom defence to Underhill further away. A natural centre would have run outside  Itoje on the open  side of the pod....forcing Underhill to come in and exploited the resultant overlap. 


Or as an Alternative, he could  have shaped to offload in Itoje's tackle to Malherbe who was positioned in the gap. Instead Allende crash balls into the three forwards and the Pom defence reforms, opportunity gone. A centre like Goodhue would have turned both of these situations into try scoring chances.


The third dead head move was allowing May, pinned against the touchline, to step inside him. Make that tackle with the aid of the touchline and we either have a 2 on 1 at the breakdown on their line....or a lineout throw 5 metres out. But instead of making a good low tackle we see the familiar upper body paw and May waltzes away.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2020, 07:28
#23
30 Nov 2020, 07:28#23

That was total BS and you should know that it was.    There were a lie as per normal in the latest description you gave and that is a fact as well.   The facts are in the following and that description was BS,   De Allende went into the defense and drew in three defenders.   The ball came back quickly and went to Willie - who had three players outside of him with Underhill coming from the resultant maul to try and cover Willie and three Springboks outside of him.  Instead of looking what was going on Willie did not pass the ball and exploit the outside overlap and carried it till Underhill caught up with him and spilled it.  Outside of Willie there were three Springboks and two defenders - but you blamed De Allende for the try not be scored and not Willie - who spilled the ball when tackled by Underhill instead of passing it.   

Farrell was not anywhere near that defense - and that mention is also a lie.   The only three defenders on the outside  was Underhill, Ford and May up against Willie and three other Springboks.    Willie never handled the ball before De Allende anyway.

Your description was so farcical and your reference to  other centers is typical of you.  Your imagination went wild and the result was total BS as per normal with you.

As to the may situation the fact is that De Allende was opposite  the ball carrier in line with the goal post when Farrell made a bad pass and AM charged at the ball  - which was then passed to May - De Allende ran out towards the sideline and tried to stop May's carry.   Just like Farrell did in the case of the Kolbe try,  De Allende did overran hoping to do exactly what Farrell also hoped would happen.   You lied about it initially when you wrote that De Allende was too slow and May beat him on the outside.   When I proved that you lied you ignore the posting and now comes up with this BS.   

For your simple-minded and defective rugby illiterate brain - De Allende was rated as the best defending and performing center in the whole WC series and Pollard - who played next to him - rated him as a brilliant center,  Only dim arseholes like you think otherwise.      

By the way - I know what went wrong with you insofar as rugby is concerned.   You supported the  appointment  of Meyer as coach like all of us did - but when Meyer went dilly in teams election and having no real game plans - most thinking people criticized him - but you stayed loyal.   When Meyer was effectively fired by SARU and Coetzee was appointed you supported his appointment as well.   After seven years of farcical and idiotic postings since Meyer became coach in 2012 and Coetzee in 2016 - with attacks on certain players thrown in.   When Coetzee was fired and Erasmus was appointed as Director  of Rugby - you attacked him outright as incompetent and a coward.  

The Springboks winning of the RC and the WC in 2019 - you blew a fusde in that rugby illiteracy of yours and  within three weeks - you started with  your attacks on Erasmus, De Allende and Du Toit again.   You first claim that despite the weak tackling efforts Mostert's replacing De Jager was the main reason the Springboks beat the  English - the next reason was the Beasts scrumming - and finally you disparaged the two tries scored by the Springboks.    The shock wins by the Springboks caused havoc in that defective rugby brain of yours and the results have further disturb you making yourself a thorough fool of yourself on site,             

     

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
30 Nov 2020, 08:08
#24
30 Nov 2020, 08:08#24

Two doddering old liars who know nothing about rugby telling each other how little they know about rugby and calling each other liars.

Sigh . . .

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
30 Nov 2020, 09:55
#25
30 Nov 2020, 09:55#25

"For your simple-minded and defective rugby illiterate brain"

You don't know any set plays, patterns, defensive systems etc, yet you call someone else rugby illiterate? Very funny. There's a clear distinction here between those who do video analysis and those with opinions formed from preconceptions or the media. You always fall flat on your face because you know absolutely nothing about the game at any basic level. You pull numbers out of context, or merely fabricate them. As we've seen with your numerous sub gaffs (Morné in Dunedin, and more recently Louw), we can't even be sure you've watched these games. Far too many errors that have been very easily debunked by video clips. You and your little group of misfits have become stale. It was amusing for a time, now it's just boring. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Nov 2020, 14:19
#26
30 Nov 2020, 14:19#26

AO

I am almost full of pity for you when it comes to your garbage - since one has to be a complete idiot not to realize what happened in games,   You mentioned the Dunedin test and the answer was always simple.   Morne that day missed 7 kicks at goal representing a potential total of  19 points,  Even the simpleton  coach at the time realized that Morne was a hopeless flyhalf other than goalkicking and he dropped him from the side for the rest of the year.   His out of hand kicking was even worse - so the commentators called over the air to of his kicks BS - which was a true description of the two kicks.

Then Meyer had a brain fart and unfortunately for the team brought back Morne at flyhalf in 2013.   That lasted  until  the second Wales test in June 2014 - when he again failed  totally and Meyer dropped him again from the team again.   He then replaced Morne with Pollard - but after the Argentina games he in the RC he brought back Morne for two more matches - the first lost against the All Blacks because of the inability of Matfild to take a ball in the line-out and form the basis of a driving maul.   However, it was the Perth test where Morne lost the test all on his  own - fact.

Meyer did not pick Morne again to play for the Springboks - but he included him in the 2015 WC squad - one of the eight unplayable players in that squad.   Next Coetzee picked him for the Springboks in two tests - both lost by record numbers,

It remains a fact - that Morne was the worst pivot the Springboks ever had at flyhalf.    If they used the American system to bring on a goalkicker o kick at goal only and then left the field  the Springboks could potentially  benefit from him being on the field - but that was not the case and he was the worst ever flyhalf I have seen playing.  

As for Louw - he was a playing from the bench  and was never really a potential starter in any of the 2019 tests other than against minion teams where  unlike Meyer Erasmus allowed rest games in the WC for his front line players of which Louw was not one.  .   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2020, 19:56
#27
30 Nov 2020, 19:56#27

Well Wanker a picture didn’t help you last time.....but it’s so utterly conclusive I give you again Pakie’s illustration of the incident. Enjoy your egg:


Pakie

Rugby Legend

5813 posts

Nov 06, 2019, 20:31

Here is the move Moz is talking about.

Frame 1: Willie gets, looks to exploit the gap between Farrell and Ford

Frame 2 (above): Illustrates what ideally should happen next. Willie splits the defenders, turns Farrell inside, Damian runs support on his outside, draws the wing inside, passes to Kolbe, Bob's your uncle. 

Frame 3 (below): Instead, Damian for some reason turns inside and starts jogging behind Willie. The dotted line indicates what the more productive decision would have been.

Frame 4 (above): Kolbe now has to come inside off his wing to take the offload with Damian in no man's land.


AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
30 Nov 2020, 21:18
#28
30 Nov 2020, 21:18#28

Why confuse the donkey any further? 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2020, 21:47
#29
30 Nov 2020, 21:47#29
It borders on idiot abuse I suppose..but incredibly this silly man actually thinks he’s a player!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Nov 2020, 22:21
#30
30 Nov 2020, 22:21#30
Damian had two choices, take the outside line being covered by Farrell or cut in and trust Willie sees him take the better inside line. Damian makes the correct call but unfortunately Willie does not read it and goes for the outside option. Once taken Damian slows down as the opportunity is lost Moz your take on DA is rubbish
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2020, 22:39
#31
30 Nov 2020, 22:39#31
No your take is balls...willie saw the gap and reacted...Duds response only came after willie had already made the break. Duds run inside had nothing to do with getting in position to support the break. My guess is he had no faith in his pace being enough to round the turning Farrell.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2020, 00:08
#32
01 Dec 2020, 00:08#32
Disagree you don’t get to play test rugby as a 12 and ending up being the best current 12 in the game not backing your pace or taking incorrect lines You are wrong, Willie goes for the gap and Damian takes the correct inside line for Farrell had him covered on the outside. Unfortunately Willie failed to see his line, keeping his eyes on Kolbe out wide
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2020, 01:05
#33
01 Dec 2020, 01:05#33

Ja it’s one of Willie’s great failings, he doesn’t have eyes in the back of his head!

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
01 Dec 2020, 01:50
#34
01 Dec 2020, 01:50#34
Peripheral vision would have had Willie seeing both options - he took the wrong one going wide Split second decision, easy to get wrong
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2020, 03:15
#35
01 Dec 2020, 03:15#35

Mozart

Deception is also as bad as lying and you are an expert in both,   Your original story backfired on you and then you came up with the later BS to cover that issue,   You later on and now refer to a subsequent "attack"  that inevitably had no chance of a try being scored ever.   

I have given a correct description as to what really happened and there was zero chance to accept anything positive from this move by  Willie.  You claimed that Willie carried the ball for twenty meters - which was a lie as well .   Willie tried to outrun Ford - not Farrell which he was unable to do.   He ended up making a shit pass to  Kolbe - who managed to hang onto the ball and was tackled - whereupon Kolbe was tackled by the cover\defense and De Allende prevented a ball turnover at the breakdown.   That was all that happened on this case.

That stupid idiot claimed that analysis of the games is done by you and him.  That happened in the cases of both of you and has nothing to do with game analysis and everything to do with the two of you studying of games to find something you two rugby illiterates can use  against players you hate and if there is nothing in a game - you created an incident either through deception or outright lies like happened in this case.    There was zero threat of a try being scored from the incident you now cotton onto.   If there was it would have been included in the match highlight package - which it was not,

The issue  you originally dealt with by you was a dangerous one from a try-scoring perspective was buggered up when Willie instead of passing the ball to the real overlap outside of him spilled the ball.   Your latest incident plus photos is just one of your manufactured stories  insofar as the real situation was concerned, with a lie as to Willie's 20 meter ball carry and the try-scoring opportunity being added based on zero evidence,   A big zero in line with your normally deceptive rubbish posted on  site,   

            

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2020, 04:39
#36
01 Dec 2020, 04:39#36

Do shut up Wanker, I assure you nobody is interested in your stale rambling. I agree with Pakie’s response to your inside line idea Dave:

Pakie

Rugby Legend

5813 posts

Nov 06, 2019, 23:25

Not a bad thought Dave, but I'm not sure either Ford or Farrell is out of commission if the inside pass goes. DA is quite a way behind them and neither is committed to Willie yet, Ford can change his line of running and at the moment this shot is taken Farrell starts veering inside as well, still ahead of DA who lost a lot of momentum when stepping inside. 

Cole is coming across, a little deeper Vunipola is across in cover. The big chance was on the outside when Farrell was made to turn. While the inside pass looks tantalizing for a moment, I don't see it amounting to much more than getting us to the 22 right in the teeth of the England cover. England had no one covering wide behind May, Vunipola wouldn't have gotten across to Kolbe.

Nice to have an actual discussion though. The question is would DA have gotten clear enough outside of Farrell to accept the offload and give May just enough to think about to give Kolbe a sniff? Maybe, because Farrell is not known for tackling low, so get a bit of a fend on him, May starts to worry, sneak the offload ... worth a shot, especially as I don't think the inside pass was ever on in Willie's mind.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2020, 04:45
#37
01 Dec 2020, 04:45#37

And so I repeat my conclusion:

mozart

Hall Of Fame

32244 posts

Nov 07, 2019, 00:21

Willie had in effect beaten Ford and Farrell was turning inside to tackle him.. We knowWillie would have got the pass away because he got a pass away to the much more remote Kolbe. But Allende wasn't there because he had turned inside behind Farrell, where he was blocked......and slowed down.


 Even if the ball was passed to him, which would have been a dangerous no look backwards offload, he couldn't have got past Farrell. We know that because even without Farrell tackling him, he never found the space to get past Farrell and slowed down.

 So no Dave, there was no mileage in that inside cut and a try beckoning if he just supported Willie's run.

  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2020, 04:57
#38
01 Dec 2020, 04:57#38

And there was a clear example of this at the WC, against the Boks in the pool game:

Check out Goodhue's line off the Barrett break in the RC, a very similar situation with Barret playing the role of Willie, Allende playing the role of Farrell and Goodhue playing the role of Allende.

Goodhue never tried to come inside, even though it would have been more justified. He cracked on the pace and was clear to take the obvious pass when it came. That's what Allende should have done...but perhaps he just didn't have enough confidence in his speed

.......

But far from the idea that this was an impossible task for Dud Allende....he was schooled by Goodhue and simply didn’t learn his lessons.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Dec 2020, 08:04
#39
01 Dec 2020, 08:04#39

Same busy with the same non-event?   I was dealing with the real threat to score a try by the Springboks and what really happened then, which you lied about anyway,   There was no threat in this case - another example of poor play by Willie. 

Himmell - the man has gone nuts again with an example that was totally different,  Barrett had a clear run and carried the ball with no threat of being tackled before he got top the cover defender when he passed to Goodhue.    There was zero such clarity in both cases with Ford on inside and Barrett outside,    Barrett was not tackled by anybody inside or outside of him that could tackle him and prevented a pass by Le Roux,   He ended up being tackled.    The only pass Willie managed was a shit poor pass to Kolbe - no other passes were possible ever,              

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
01 Dec 2020, 10:18
#40
01 Dec 2020, 10:18#40

This is probably why Josè implemented the most limited, predictable and least archaic gameplan of all tier 1 and tier 2 nations: He knew that the likes of Damian and Steph couldn't play that more sophisticated game. Play a defensive kicking game backed by emotion and hope you can rally them for a couple of key big games. I compiled all of Damian's 2018 season, and we see the same level of play as the blown opportunity with Willie all season long. He cannot read play.

Observe both England tests:


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