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FORUM / RUGBY /  Pieter-Steph du Toit - the Village Idiots takes note

Pieter-Steph du Toit - the Village Idiots takes note

Started by clevermike29 REPLIES578 VIEWS· 18 Aug 2015, 14:33
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 14:33
#1
18 Aug 2015, 14:33#1
The following from News 24:-
"Pieter-Steph du Toit may be like a caged animal gleefully set free at the World Cup.

That could simultaneously make him a dangerous, unknown factor of sorts to some of South Africa’s opponents at the looming tournament.


The versatile young Sharks forward, supposedly Western Province/Stormers-bound from next season although this is yet to be officially confirmed, looked like a man on a mission even in the relatively short stint he got on the park as the Springboks finally earned a first Test victory this year against Argentina in Buenos Aires on Saturday.


But in those 16 very assertive, educative minutes as he replaced starter Willem Alberts at blindside flank, Du Toit sent powerful signals to Heyneke Meyer - if the national coach even sought them? - that he probably deserves to be on the plane among the 31-strong RWC squad.


Certainly it was confirmation of his versatility, at the very least, given that most of his first-class yards thus far have come in the second row.   Unsurprisingly, sections of the Afrikaans press, in particular, are suggesting with pretty good reason that he will develop into a utility equivalent of Danie Rossouw, that consummate professional and unflagging workhorse who served the country in various positions between Nos 4-8 between 2003 and 2011 (including at three World Cups). If anything, the athletic Du Toit - who at two metres and 115kg is roughly Rossouw’s physical match - may turn into a more explosive version of the now-retired former Loftus favourite.


While Alberts made a credible comeback from recent injury against the Pumas and will almost certainly also get the RWC nod given his known value in often heavy “northern” conditions, his replacement actually appeared to take things up a gear on the blindside in Buenos Aires.


Du Toit carried the ball lustily a couple of times and generally rampaged around the turf with gusto and notable stealth – encouraging from a man who saw so much of 2014 and 2015 drastically curtailed by serious knee injuries.


In short, he looked like someone liberated at last after bleak periods of personal mishap that are hopefully now behind him.   It also appeared confirmation of what many coaches and pundits were already quite sure of: that the young forward, who turns 23 on Thursday, is one of those very rare talents who pop up every now and then.

The Boks’ southern hemisphere foes are probably more aware of what Du Toit offers than their bigger rivals above the equator, even given his most unfortunate, lengthy absences from the game.


That is because, when fit, he has already graced Super Rugby with some aplomb and he is well remembered in the powerhouse nation of New Zealand, for instance, for his role in the Baby Boks’ winning the IRB Junior World Championship final against them at Newlands back in 2012.


Du Toit was already a highly-touted lock then, but coach Dawie Theron also saw his potential on the side of the scrum and fielded him at No 7 - with rousing success - in that showpiece, which SA won 22-16 with Paul Willemse and Ruan Botha the second-row firm.

The senior Boks’ lock stocks look pretty formidable again in the weeks leading up to RWC 2015, with such customers as Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield, Lood de Jager and Flip van der Merwe available to the cause.


But the extra strings to Du Toit’s bow make him an attractive squad presence, and Buenos Aires may just have confirmed his rights to a passage.   The blond competitor is so highly rated by some sections of South Africa’s rugby intelligentsia that Mark Andrews, the World Cup-winning lock and famously temporary No 8 of 1995, was moved to say when he looked a tournament doubt earlier this year: “Our chances of winning (the cup) will go down perhaps 10 percent if he is ruled out.


Happily, Du Toit looks firmly in the mix now from a well-being point of view.

Even if he is deployed primarily as an impact factor off the bench in bigger Bok assignments during the September-October jamboree, the player simply looks too good to be left at home.


Through no fault of his own, Du Toit has flown largely beneath the international radar for some time. That may contain certain advantages pretty shortly."


Now we have Dr Goebbels who did not notice what happened when Du Toit came on to replace the pedestrian Alberts - who have tried desperately to discredit Du Toit.   We have his side-kicks as well, who are equally desperate to destroy the SA team through supporting defective Meyer lunacy.


The problem has been that Dr Goebbels was absolute in his discrediting of Du Toit.   It started off with him writing in March that Du Toit's injury will prevent him playing rugby this year against what the specialists advised - he claimed to know better than the specialists.   He obviously wished for the player through injury not to be available for WC selection.


That was followed by a silly thread started by him to make a statement that somebody suggested that Du Toit would be back in May 2015 - an obvious lie - and then went on to query why Du Toit did not start playing by mid-June as originally determined by the specialists - despite the fact that there were no Sharks matches for him to appear in.   However, it was clear that Meyer wanted Du Toit in his initial squad and then sent him back to the Sharks for further rehabilitation and also match play - which happened and he is now back in serious contention. 


The absolute hatred Dr Goebbels and his side-kicks had of Du Toit is the obvious fact that Du Toit is ten times better than Matfield is at present and that Matfield's position in the Springbok team would be threatened - but that is nothing new since De Jager already proved that he is a far better lock than the weak Matfield is at present.   So their hatred is now aimed at both De Jager and Du Toit.


The Village Idiots will never learn to put performance before prejudice and that the players they favour will be destroying the Springboks chances in the WC.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:01
#2
18 Aug 2015, 15:01#2
Look at the grammar of your headline and you will see the true village idiot.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:09
#3
18 Aug 2015, 15:09#3

He rampaged around the turf "with gusto and notable stealth". Can these people get any sillier. He had 10 perfectly ordinary minutes in which he ran 3 times without beating a tackle. He never missed a tackle but only because he was so bamboozled on one occasion he never got close enough to miss the tackle.

 

This wishful thinking is a good example of why our rugby is in decline....we no longer have a performance culture.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:15
#4
18 Aug 2015, 15:15#4
"... we no longer have a performance culture." Right on.......and I'd like to add that we neither have intellectual property, that's assuming we did have in yonks gone by.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:23
#5
18 Aug 2015, 15:23#5

PDST made far more of an impression in 16min than useless Alberts did in 64min......hell for a start he gained more metres only being on the field for a quarter of the time Alberts was on.


PSDT is a far far better player than Alberts ever was and the test last Sat proved that

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:30
#6
18 Aug 2015, 15:30#6
 Vetvark....you're barking again....just a reminder, that's all.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 15:38
#7
18 Aug 2015, 15:38#7

What the test last Saturday showed about Stephanie  is all he has to do is appear and the hype machine will do the rest. It is noteworthy though that nobody is pumping him for 5 anymore. Now he is the new answer at blindside flank. A little more credible because it's suits his smallish frame a bit better. Still there is no proof he can succeed there yet.

 

And then there are those popping ligaments, will they survive even a mild twist?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 16:11
#8
18 Aug 2015, 16:11#8

Smallish frame weighing in at 120kg and you advocate Matfield at 5 weighing in at an insulting 108kg......do you know how stupid you sound right now?


Yeah at 120kg PSDT really does have a smallish frame....its unbelievable the amount of shit you speak.


You will find that PSDT will end up as Etzebeths lock partner, the only reason he is being touted as a 7 for now is because clueless Meyer is going to select useless Matfield at 5, meaning the only look in PSDT will get is at 7


Pretty obvious really. PSDT is a lock at 2.01m and 120kg, but gifted enough to play as a flanker.


He will be a far better 5 than Matfield ever was and Matfield was one of the best ever......a good 8 years ago

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Aug 2015, 16:18
#9
18 Aug 2015, 16:18#9
Goosen, JJ, Step....all players who were"far better" according to you. Now heading for the dustbin of history.
 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 16:48
#10
18 Aug 2015, 16:48#10

So now Serf who walked straight back into the test 23 after a lengthy injury layoff is now heading for dustbin history is he?


Goosen aged 22 and out of sight in France is also dustbin history is he?


Hmmmm, Moz you are speaking crap again.....besides the fact that Meyer does not select a player means nothing given useless Meyer with his record is hardly the measure.


Thankfully I think we only have to endure useless Meyer until our early WC exit.....for no doubt he will be heading for dustbin of history post the WC

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
18 Aug 2015, 17:51
#11
18 Aug 2015, 17:51#11
 Goosen is so out of sight in France that not even his own club is noticing his absence.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 17:52
#12
18 Aug 2015, 17:52#12
 Dave
Forget about the Village Idiot.  He is the one who said Du Toit has a smallish frame with thin shoulders and wrists.    That was while he claimed that Matfield is physically strong, never mind the real thing about Matfield having really a small frame, thin shoulders, and extremely thin legs.   That doers not count.
This man must have a brain malfunction making statements like -
*   What the test last Saturday showed about Stephanie  is all he has to do is appear and the hype machine will do the rest; and
*     It is noteworthy though that nobody is pumping him for 5 anymore.
I would deal with the first rubbish first.   We had to labour through 64 minutes watching a slow and ineffective Alberts at 7 putting in his normal sub-par performance of poor ball carries - non-performance at breakdowns and rare tackles and then Du Toit came in and lifted the performance of the 7 to top level.  There is no hype-machine here - it was real performance on top level that impressed people.  Hype is what is applicable to non-performance being praised and hence your hype iro Alberts is laughable.
Now for the second comment above.   This is a crazy statement - where did you get the latter idiocy from?   There is nothing in the report that indicates that Du Toit is not a suitable lock at all.  The fact is that all THINKING PEOPLE believe in performance by players and they would like to see Etzebeth, De Jager and Du Toit as 4, 5 and 7 in the team.
It is only idiots like Dr Goebbels who believe the answer is in the non-performers like Matfield and Alberts in the 5 and 7 positions.   Meyer would be in serious trouble if he does not select De Jager and Du Toit as part of the WC squad - the public is not as ignorant as you are about rugby issues and their would be serious complications if Meyer follows the same idiotic reasoning as you and you side-kicks are guilty of.      
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 17:59
#13
18 Aug 2015, 17:59#13

Got to love the small frame............he must have stones in his belly to get to 120kg's



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Aug 2015, 18:13
#14
18 Aug 2015, 18:13#14
 SNAPSTER WEE MATFILED IS 105 KG THESE DAYS. A WAIF OF A LOCK - THE WEAKES "LOCK' IN RUGBY HISTORY.If you cant see the talent re a guy like Du Toit then you have no clue. Its that simple. Ditto Allende. Trashing players like these is really rediculous. Promoting instead players like matfiled is absurd.
We also had the trashing of Lood. Boy has the egg landed there as well. Malherbe trashed.  A miss reading of context sees Koch trashed. Very sad. Not surprisingly  Jan is trashed. These oaks are clueless. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 18:29
#15
18 Aug 2015, 18:29#15

Yeah I don't get how you can find favour in a 105kg lock aged 38 over a player like PSDT


As for trashing the best centre in the game right now in de Allende......its childish  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 18:32
#16
18 Aug 2015, 18:32#16
 Beeno
I believe people are entitled to their own opinions - but when those opinions are based on nothing but prejudice and then used to insult the intelligence of people who base their comments on factual performance, then one has to conclude that the trashers are clueless.   
The result is always the same - 
*   if they base their trashing on lies - the lies ultimately backfire and then the trashers try and get out of the holes they dug for themselves by further lies; and
*   if the trashers are queried about the performance of players they trumpet  on the site, the trashers fail to provide any supporting evidence and then becomes abusive.
The best thing one can do is to denounce the lies and pity the trashers for their deluded opinions.   However, it is sad that there are indeed rugby lovers who will go to any length to promote the non-performing players and that Meyer adds to their relentless and destructive campaign on this site.  
          
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
18 Aug 2015, 19:50
#17
18 Aug 2015, 19:50#17

It would be wonderful if Meyer could coach PSDT into a role similar to what Po.c.ock  delivers. But I suppose that is wishful thinking.

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Aug 2015, 20:16
#18
18 Aug 2015, 20:16#18
 Blik,  Meyer is a genius in building a team from scratch upwards,  identifying talent at a young age and moulding them into something special.  Unfortunately his emotional attachment to some of these players resulted in him not properly developing their successors.  He identified  PSDT early on,  so he has a vision for him.  It might not be a bad thing for SA Rugby if he gets another 4 years. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
18 Aug 2015, 21:32
#19
18 Aug 2015, 21:32#19
 Draad please stop wishing another 4 years of useless Meyer on us. You need your head checked. Meyer has done nothing as a test coach....he has had 4 years to prove his worth and has failed miserably.
He has to go....I be more than happy to see him leave before the WC that is how little I rate him. Give an SOS job to someone else 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Aug 2015, 23:38
#20
18 Aug 2015, 23:38#20
 Draad 
You have identified Meyers problem to the tee.  His main problem that b edevil his national coaching career thus far has been that he sets his personal relationships with players higher than real performance evaluation.  That accounts for most of his serious selection flops.
Should he is given another four years as coach - all the rugby geriatrics he identified as players he is acquainted with will be gone.  No more De Villiers, Habana, Fourie, Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez, Pienaar, Alberts, Matfield. Bakkkies Botha, Jannie du Plessis and Gurthro Steenkamp  will be available to detract him from his real role as a coach.  That would force him to really develop talented players must better than the present mediocre performers (they all  are bar Habana)  detracting from present team performance.  He will have to target the really talented players to develop a proper squad - something he failed to do to date.
Some of the above-mentioned lot already retired voluntarily - either because they realized they were not in to standard anymore, others were forced out because of rank incompetence and that forced Meyer's hand in bringing in real talent like Etzebeth, Le Roux, Kriel, De Allende, Serfontein, Pollard, De Jager and  Pieter-Steph Du Toit and Nyakane.  The others who overstayed there welcome  will go after the WC and that would open up the way for the much better players already available at present.
I can see a bright future for a host of better younger players - like Senatla, Jordaan (on the wing), Vorster, De Klerk, Liebenberg, Kriel, Kitshoff, Thomas du Toit and Marx coming through, with Labuschagne now being developed as a future captain through his captaincy of the Blue Bulls.
In 2016 the Springbok team of the future may look like the following:-
15  Le Roux14  Senatla13  Kriel12  De Allende11  Jordaan10  Pollard 9   De Klerk 8   Vermeulen 7   Labuschagne (c) 6   Kriel 5   Du Toit 4   Etzebeth 3   Malherbe 2   Strauss 1   Nyakane
16  Marx17  Van der Merwe18  Kitshoff19  De Jager20  Botha21  Reinach22  Lambie23  Vorster
There are other players like Serfontein, Kolbe, Koch, Liebenberg, Schoeman and Kebble that would press the above lot hard to keep their positions.  I listed Labuschagne as captain since all the present contenders will be gone and Vermeulen will be playing in France and Kriel will not captain the Lions in Super 18.  None of the other provincial CC captains will be in fact selectable. 
The losers of the 2011 WC and the disasters of the past year will all be gone and if Meyer stays on he will be forced to change the team drastically.  So maybe another term by him would not be a similar disaster to the present scenario we encounter at present.            
   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Aug 2015, 00:29
#21
19 Aug 2015, 00:29#21
 If that's the future Bok team it may be time to forget about this declining franchise.The frustration of watching our currently disappointing run become even worse is not an attractive prospect.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Aug 2015, 00:42
#22
19 Aug 2015, 00:42#22
 Why?  The time to forget about the declining franchise is now with the huge collection of duds in the squad.  That team is a bright prospect of better performance in future than the present lot that has taken us down to a rating of 5 in world rugby.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Aug 2015, 07:22
#23
19 Aug 2015, 07:22#23
 Dr Goebbels went quiet when the present position was pointed out graphically to him -  being the no 5 ranked team in World Rugby is the result of playing poorly-selected teams by Meyer and by the inclusion of too many has-beens and never-has-beens in the Springbok team.
When looking at the future the dimwit sees only doom and gloom - but can the doom and gloom be worse than it is at present?  Fact is it will not be and I am optimistic that Meyer - if he stays on as coach - will be forced to adjust and the adjustment can only lead to improvement of the situation in which we find ourselves at present.
It must be hell on earth to be stuck in the past without the ability to change and cater for changing circumstances and face the future with any degree of confidence.    One should actually be sympathetic in this case.       
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
19 Aug 2015, 07:31
#24
19 Aug 2015, 07:31#24
Mike,Although the team looks pretty good, you don' t have nearly enough players of colour in the squad!! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Aug 2015, 08:00
#25
19 Aug 2015, 08:00#25
 MB
That is a problem.  However, in looking at the team above I looked at what talent is available and not at the BEE requirements per se. 
I think that the three mentioned (Senatla, De Allende and Nyakane) will be too few - but there can be others like Kolbe. Sithole, Mapoe, Beast, Carr  and Kolisi in future teams.   They are not the best around, but I do not think they will let down the team - especially i f some are selected.  To include all of them the same time will be a disaster. 
What will really be interesting to see is what Eddie Jones does with a player like Kolbe.  I have a suspicion he is going to move him from full back and he may end up as a scrummie.   
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
19 Aug 2015, 08:09
#26
19 Aug 2015, 08:09#26
De Allende is black? Wasn't there just a big ruckus about Ehrenreich calling him colored and De Allende's parents saying it's rubbish, they're white?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Aug 2015, 08:18
#27
19 Aug 2015, 08:18#27
 It has been reported a number of times that De Allende's father is white and his mother is coloured - so I may be wrong on that issue.  However, if I am wrong I apologize.   He definitely is not Black though and I think the ruckus is more of having Black players in the squad than players of colour.   
However, as I said I was not looking at the BEE issue - more at the talent being available as from next year.    
  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Aug 2015, 08:56
#28
19 Aug 2015, 08:56#28
 I heard Allende is Portuguese?
Anyhow Mike keep selecting on merit only and leave quota picks to the racists.
Players like Carr and Kolisi are not up to it. When you pick lessor players your chancers of beating top sides are severely dimininshed. Hence also my concern with matfiled being part of the equation.
Love to see Kolbe at scrummie. He is having less and less of an impact at 15 as he has taken too many thumping tackles. Expecting this little guy to keep tackling big guys wek after week is stupid. He could make a great scrummie and I hope Jones gives it a shot.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
19 Aug 2015, 09:00
#29
19 Aug 2015, 09:00#29
His father is of Spanish descent apparently. Mother might be colored, so technically he can probably qualify as colored, although his parents say he is white and Ehrenreich had to apologize for making him out as colored. Ah, the rainbow nation. Never a dull moment.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Aug 2015, 09:21
#30
19 Aug 2015, 09:21#30
 
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