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FORUM / RUGBY /  Robson: TMO didn't cost Chiefs in loss to Hurricanes, but officials need to front; By TOBY ROBSON

Robson: TMO didn't cost Chiefs in loss to Hurricanes, but officials need to front; By TOBY ROBSON

Started by Just_win11 REPLIES354 VIEWS· 17 May 2015, 19:10
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 May 2015, 19:10
#1
17 May 2015, 19:10#1

OPINION: 

Chiefs fans might not want to hear it, but TMO Vinny Munro's atrocious late call did not directly cost the Chiefs victory against the Hurricanes.

When it comes to New Zealand rugby provincial and Super Rugby allegiances tend to taint people's judgment. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Hurricanes fans need to accept Ma'a Nonu did lose the ball going for the try line and was lucky referee Glen Jackson played such a short advantage when he got his intercept.

Referee Glen Jackson and his TMO Vinny Munro are under the spotlight after a series of controversial rulings during the Super Rugby match between the Hurricanes and Chiefs at Westpac Stadium on Saturday.

Chiefs fans need to accept that even if Munro got things right, it would not have guaranteed they'd win.

First off, there should be no debate about whether Munro was right or wrong when he told referee Glen Jackson to award a scrum to the Hurricanes after checking the legality or otherwise of August Pulu's late try at Westpac Stadium.

Munro was blatantly wrong.

Hurricanes prop Chris Eves clearly played the ball on the ground. He deliberately pushed the ball out of Chiefs openside Sam Cane's hands.

How Munro didn't see that, or feel compelled to point it out to Jackson is a mystery. That's because there was and has been no explanation from the officials.

Sanzar referees boss Lyndon Bray couldn't be reached for comment and we do not know specifically what Jackson asked his TMO to rule on.

What is clear is the ball went forward from Cane's hands before it was cleared from the ruck.

Based on those facts, the correct call from Munro would have been to award a penalty to the Chiefs, and arguably to send Eves to the sinbin for a cynical foul.

Let's remember those actions would not have changed the score at the time. The Chiefs would have still have needed to score a try to win.

On another note, it's wrong to label Chiefs coach Dave Rennie as a or sore loser for his post match comments. They were not delivered by a bitter man, but rather one frustrated that the system keeps failing.

He didn't call for Pulu's try to stand. He simply wondered how the Hurricanes player had not been penalised.

Perhaps Rennie was casting his mind back to TMO Mike Fraser awarding Dane Coles a try in the corresponding match in 2012 when nobody else could see any evidence of a grounding.

That decision cost the Chiefs a home playoff and the latest one could do the same.

For the record, the Chiefs effort at Westpac Stadium was nothing short of phenomenal. They overcame a horror run of injuries to push the competition leaders to the brink on their home ground.

But to suggest one horrible call after 80 minutes decided the match is a stretch.

The Chiefs will hold themselves accountable for 17 turnovers, 14 penalties, a yellow card and an inability to execute the crucial last pass rather than dwelling on one call.

One wonders if Munro will be held accountable, but that's likely to remain as big a mystery as to whether a correct call would have change the result.

 - The Dominion Post

 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 May 2015, 19:12
#2
17 May 2015, 19:12#2
I have to watch this game but the point of the article is that a couple of bad calls are not enough to hold the ref accountable for a loss.
I must say though bad calls leave a bad taste on all our mouths. No need to continually whine & bleat about it though (as on member of the board is famous for).
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
17 May 2015, 21:48
#3
17 May 2015, 21:48#3
 Just finished watching the game, it was a good one for sure. Hard fought and close, could have gone either way. It is clear the Chiefs have a very good team & it was great to see such determination after the injuries.
Congrats to the Canes, they fought just as hard & won the game. Chiefs are second on the leader board in points but the Canes have a big points lead now. In terms of gains won/lost they are 8-4 as are the landers. Kiwi conference is strong
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
17 May 2015, 23:06
#4
17 May 2015, 23:06#4
 I would highlight 2 sentences of the article.

"But to suggest one horrible call after 80 minutes decided the match is a stretch."

and this should be applied to every other match, e.g. the matches that the SA teams loose, instead of beginning with lunatic theories about the world conspiracy against t he SA teams.

"For the record, the Chiefs effort at Westpac Stadium was nothing short of phenomenal. They overcame a horror run of injuries to push the competition leaders to the brink on their home ground."

I was astonished by the chiefs' game with so many injuries before and during the match. The second row was specially affected and they had almost the whole incumbent backline sidelined:
TKB, A. Cruden, SBW, Tim Nanai-Williams, J. Lowe,

very remarkable effort
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 May 2015, 23:40
#5
17 May 2015, 23:40#5
 ABF
You are wrong  involving SA fans in this case.   There is no lunatic theory at all in the cases involving SA teams and your comment is both rude and uncalled for.  There may be members who went wild on the issue - but I have been clear about refereeing mistakes.  Mistakes involve not only SA teams - all teams suffer as a result of refereeing mistakes.
I have called for the withdrawal of Hoffman from the penal of referees and for the firing of the NZ TV monitors.  They are incompetent and are giving NZ rugby a bad name.  The above incident involving the Chiefs is a typical example of what I meant        
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
18 May 2015, 00:22
#6
18 May 2015, 00:22#6
 @mike,
 here you have an example involving the SA fans and media, the twitter campaign, etc:

http://www.ruckersforum.com/forum.cfm?threadid=13931#inscore_ifheight_xdc_500

The lunatic theories are brought here day in day out, an exmple from Mr. Been in the thread that you opened, "Refereeing Decisions in New Zealand"":

" We are concerned about blatant cheating and cheating consistently game after game against SA sides. Very, very seldomly do we get a fair deal.Ban all down under refs should be the immediate response to all this."


and you yourself were blaming all the NZ refs

"The over-riding principle in NZ is that if an opposing team scores a try - find a reason why the try should not be awarded.   That leads to wrong decisions being taken that favours the home team.   The other way around is to give NZ team a free hand and ignore illegal play and passing errors and award dubious tries to local teams."

because you didn't see a try that was very clearly grounded
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 May 2015, 06:00
#7
18 May 2015, 06:00#7
 ABF
It was not the only case in point where I raised the issue of dubious tries.   It is a history of dubious tries and the fact that the referees and line judges did not "see" what happens right before their eyes - when it fitted them not to and allows illegal play and handling errors to go unpunished.   And then there is the TV monitor who should advise the referee if there is something he did not see or was missed by the line-judges.
Take the Hurricanes - Stormers match for instance.   There was a deliberate knock-down of the Ball by Conrad Smith 5 meters out from the tryline in the Hurricanes 22 - which none of the officials claimed to have seen.  Smith then got hold of the ball and a counter - attack by the Hurricanes started leading to a Hurricanes try.   How did 4 officials missed to "see" that deliberate knock-down?  
Some time later there was a tackle a few meters out for and the Hurricanes player did not support his weight and recovered the ball leading to the try by Barrett on the other side of the field.   This was shown on the Breakdown show and both referees - Jackson and Pollock on the show agreed that the decision was a farce.  Again - how did 4 match officials missed to "see"  what happened?
It is nothing new.  As far back as 1999 Bryce Lawrence's father send an e-mail to his Aussie counter-part to "GET THE YARPIES".   The bugger was stupid - he cc the e-mail to the head of the SA Refs at the time.  Ir caused a storm and that storm raises its ugly head every time there were obvious refereeing errors made by NZ and Aussie referees when SA teams are involved.  
If an e-mail like that is sent by the head of the SA refs to anybody to get the NZ teams - what would the result have been in NZ?  Even if the idiot apologized afterwards - would it have been enough?  Would it be easily forgotten by the NZ teams and their supporters?    
There has been constant serious incidents since that e-mail that caused havoc - the downright crooking of matches by Paddy O'Brien and Bryce Lawrence in critical matches was clear as daylight and a constant reminder of Bryce's father's e-mail.  
Hoffman in the Stormers game was incompetent - but the games that followed not only involving SA teams - he was equally incompetent, but so was the other supporting staff during the matches.   If referees and supporting staff is incompetent, why is action not taken to remove them?
Incidentally Bryce Lawrence was given the Referees Award for ref of 2011 by NZ and then buggered up the reffing of a game between the Hurricanes and Crusaders - whereafter he was removed from the Sanzar panel.   He was then appointed as head of the NZ Referee Training programme.   He was a thorough disgrace - yet was rewarded by NZ rugby.  Is the present erring NZ referees the result of his supervising role in training of referees?  Can a proven incompetent - even an alleged crook - be entrusted with such a responsibility?  
Sorry - I am harsh in what I said - but facts are facts and an obvious problem must be dealt with firmly.  As stated earlier - this happened in an NZ derby match and an NZ coach speaks out about it.  So far this year it happened three times involving SA teams - but when our Board and Coaches question it - they become in your words "the lunatic fringe".               
   
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
18 May 2015, 07:51
#8
18 May 2015, 07:51#8
 I need some help with the Laws here. Toby Robson says that last play didn't cost the Chiefs the match however if the ball was played illegally by the Canes player on the ground then surely advantage would apply.The Chiefs regained possession of the ball and then scored so I'm thinking in normal circumstances the try would have stood.I haven't seen the full replay of this incident but am I missing something here? Was there another intervening infringement I missed?
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
18 May 2015, 09:18
#10
18 May 2015, 09:18#10
 I beg to differ - If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.....Of course the TMO was to blame.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 May 2015, 12:11
#11
18 May 2015, 12:11#11

 

Hakwa: Looks like a duck to me

— END OF THREAD —

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