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Rugby World Cup: Australia, Wales opt for twin opensides; NZ Herald

Started by Just_win27 REPLIES356 VIEWS· 08 Oct 2015, 17:06
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Oct 2015, 17:06
#1
08 Oct 2015, 17:06#1

Sean McMahon has replaced suspended flanker Michael Hooper in a like-for-like selection for Australia that will ensure the battle at the breakdown will be the key to the Rugby World Cup Pool A decider against Wales.

Australia and Wales have selected two natural opensides in their starting backrow combinations for Sunday's match at Twickenham, upping the tempo in terms of speed and potential for turnovers.

Wallabies coach Michael Cheika picked McMahon to start in the No. 7 jersey for his sixth test, keeping noted fetcher David Pocock at No. 8 and Scott Fardy on the blindside to add some extra height and bulk for the balance of the backrow.

Wales coach Warren Gatland went with a slight variation on the theme, shifting skipper Sam Warburton to the blindside flank to make room for Justin Tipuric on the openside of the scrum, and retaining Taulupe Faletau, a traditional-style No. 8.

The winner will top Pool A and avoid a quarterfinal against two-time champion South Africa. So, even with both teams already qualified for the quarterfinals after their respective wins over England, there's plenty to play for.

"No team ever won the World Cup losing a game," Cheika said. "By winning this game, then you win the group. I don't subscribe to the theory that if you win your group, you are going to get an easier run. That is disrespecting the opposition, and that is not what we are about.

"It is going to be a big game for us. It is going to be a massive battle and pretty painful."

Israel Folau passed a fitness test on his ankle and retained his place at fullback, with veteran Drew Mitchell starting on the wing in place of the injured Rob Horne. In the only other change to the Wallabies' starting lineup that beat England 33-13 last weekend, putting the host team out of the tournament, lock Dean Mumm will start and Rob Simmons moves back to the bench.

Australia has won the last 10 tests against Wales, but the outcomes recently have been decided by less than one try, including the 2014 match at Millennium Stadium where McMahon made his international debut.

Cheika took some convincing initially to go with two natural opensides, forced into the decision purely by the form of both Pocock and Hooper. It worked well in the victory over England, so he resisted shuffling Pocock to openside and bringing in Ben McCalman at No. 8 after Hooper was cited after the Twickenham match for an illegal shoulder charge, and later banned for one match.

McMahon has been the player of the match in his last two tests, including the 65-3 win over Uruguay in Australia's second match at the World Cup.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Oct 2015, 17:09
#2
08 Oct 2015, 17:09#2
 There will be speed around the breakdown. Is this a trend?  I think many teams (including the Bocks) will want strength at one of their flank positions (7 for Boks & 6 for all other teams). 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
08 Oct 2015, 17:36
#3
08 Oct 2015, 17:36#3
The pooper combo is a threat at any breakdown
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
08 Oct 2015, 17:42
#4
08 Oct 2015, 17:42#4
 If Alberts gets injured maybe the Boks should call up Brussouw to be on the bench if we are losing at the breakdown.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
08 Oct 2015, 19:22
#5
08 Oct 2015, 19:22#5
 the breakdown is a crucial area of the modern rugby. In the late years the speed around it's becoming one of the most important aspects of the game and Cheika forced by the lack of a competitive nº8 has increased its importance playing with 2 opensides.
This is one of the main reasons why England was eliminated, they played with no openside but with 2 big blindsides. They were clearly beaten in this aspèct.
And this is one of the main reasons why South Africa won't win this WC. They also play with 2 big blindsides which is a dead gameplan that will be buried this WC.
They cannot change their gamepaln coz there are no opensides in the squad, another failure of HM. Their only posible solution is to play Kolisi, who is also a blindside (a small one but a blindside) with the strict order of forgetting about carrying the ball and focussing only in the breakdowns. But HM won't do this....

if I were H ansen I would consider very seriously playing against the aussies (if this happens) with Sam Cane at 7 and McCaw at 6.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2015, 19:47
#6
08 Oct 2015, 19:47#6
 MacMahon is really top class and I rate him very highly.  I do not think he is better than Hooper - but he is a close second for the openside flank position.
AB - I also rate Cane highly - higher than Kaino and Messam - so I think play Cane at 7 and McCaw at 6.    
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Oct 2015, 20:03
#7
08 Oct 2015, 20:03#7
Minus a fetcher we have to opt for power. Breakdown superiority is ultimately a team thing. If we can stifle their attack from first and second phase it's going to be hard for their twin opensides to be a factor. Aside from Schalk we do have Duane and Alberts who have operated so well for us at the breakdown, and with those two we have big ball carriers as well. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Oct 2015, 20:15
#8
08 Oct 2015, 20:15#8
Burger is an open-side (as we all know the SA 6 is the 7). He has some speed and mobility is ok at the breakdown, good at link play and has good ball handling skills. But he is not top tier any more but still has his good days. 
Other than that who are the opensides in Bok rugby? All bulky boys looking to put some hurt on. Limits your options to pretty much in terms of style of play. If you can't win the breakdown you are depending on set piece & the bok scrum is not the best. Lineouts are ok but not dominant. 
Boks are improving but have their challe nges.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Oct 2015, 20:16
#9
08 Oct 2015, 20:16#9
 DF
Wityh respect I differ from you on one aspect what you write above.  That is on the issue of Alberts - he has never been a factor in breakdown ball protection and recovery. I have never once over the last year seen him recovering a single breakdown ball.   he is too pace-deficient to be a factor in that component of the game.       
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Oct 2015, 20:40
#10
08 Oct 2015, 20:40#10
He did it throughout the 2013 season, particularly torturing Australia. Likewise England in 2012. Duane and Alberts are lethal in tandem. Louw becomes a bit more effective.
Just_Win, Schalk is a very different kind of player now. He used to be a blunt force and sort of more effective at the breakdown. He went through a slump in 2010 and 2011. You could see by 2009 that his physicality had deteriorated markedly. After his return from that helli sh injury and subsequent illness he is a different man. Full of vitality, energy, great skill and a more cerebral evolution to his game. He is a better player now than he was in 2007 in my opinion. He is a non-factor as a breakdown threat, but his work everywhere else is exceptional. Our best loose forward thus far in the competition.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
08 Oct 2015, 21:17
#11
08 Oct 2015, 21:17#11
  @DF,

"Aside from Schalk we do have Duane and Alberts who have operated so well for us at the breakdown,"

Burger always has been a blindside playing as an openside, he's barely involved in the breakdowns. Alberts has never been involved in a breakdown, I think he even doesn't know what a breakdown is. I cannot remember any image of him bent down.
IMO the boks' 2 best options at the breakbown are Vermeulen and Bismark. Possibly Kolisy (Jerome V promised us a video showing his abilities in this area but I think he still didn't upload it).
The problem with Vermeulen and Bismark is that the speed around the braekdown have significantly increased and they are slower than the other players (usually loosies) involved (Poc0ck, Hooper, Cane, McCaw, O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton,....). They are very strong and once they are over the ball very dificult to push aside so they can still make damage but regarding the overall battle at the breakdowns they hardly can compete with other players' speed.
The game against Japan, even though Vermeulen wasn't playing, was another example of how a more phisycal teams can be starved of the ball with speed.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Oct 2015, 21:22
#12
08 Oct 2015, 21:22#12
 DF, I don't disagree with anything you have said on Burger, he has my full respect. He has come back from an life threatening illness & he has evolved his game. They better manage his game time well because he will wear down. Unfortunately there isn't anyone that I can see that has his capabilities in the Boks team. As Abasquefan said Kolisi is not any good really, but who else has this set of skills as a Bok who  could possibly play a Burger role?
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Oct 2015, 21:23
#13
08 Oct 2015, 21:23#13
B ismarck has his moments, but they are fleeting. Right now Strauss has left him for dust so I wouldn't even start Bissie. Alberts has operated plenty of times as a breakdown presence. Agreed on Burger, that was what I have been saying since 2004.
I disagree with the Japan test. Louw and Steph? Pienaar-Lamebie-Jean-Kriel with Mvovo? We lacked punch in our carries and had nothing at the breakdown nor the backs to generate momentum or control the game. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Oct 2015, 21:36
#14
08 Oct 2015, 21:36#14
 Where does it say a openside must be small and agile? Horse shyte! Pocock killed us in 2011 and he is bigger than Schalk. Flo is a good openside in the SA mold. He was off form, but it looks like he is getting better every match. Our best ballanced back row under Meyer was Thor, Flo and Alberts, but then we need Bismarck at his best. That's why he's preferred to Strauss. We need him at the breakdown. With Alberts undercooked, Scalla is the  next best thing, adding with skills what he lacks in Alberts' brawn. The fact that we played a midget at lock for the last 12 years forced us to play bigger loosies and it became so much part of our game plan that it will be silly to change it now. This will change again when we see the back of Victor, but the right openside must still be iddntified.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Oct 2015, 21:51
#15
08 Oct 2015, 21:51#15
 Victor has been doing more at ruck time than Lood and Bismarck combined. And our penchant for big loosies goes back a long way before Vic. We typically had big unskilled forwards and relied on brute force.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:45
#16
08 Oct 2015, 22:45#16
AB - I think you nailed it regarding the key to Aussie success and the greatest threat they pose to NZ and SA - Hooper and Po cock. Also agree with the sentiment that it would be wise for the ABs to counter them with two opensides of their own. As for the Boks, when Bissie plays we effectively have two open sides and is one of the reasons I think Louw is a non-negotiable for us. Meyer gave Brussouw a good run in the RC in search of other breakdown specialists but he wasn't effective enough or he may well have made the WC squad. There is no other world class fetcher in the SA ranks at the moment on which to fall back on although Vermuelen is also very effective at the breakdown - much like Reid

CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
09 Oct 2015, 00:23
#17
09 Oct 2015, 00:23#17
 I don't think we will loose a whole lot with McMahon. He has a bit more strength over the ball than Hooper and hopefully will take this opportunity and run with it. Over the try line preferably.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 00:27
#18
09 Oct 2015, 00:27#18
 DF
As per normal you see things that is just nor present in Alberts and Matfield.  Alberts rarely is near breakdown points and when he is he is not capable ff making any impact whatsoever - he is too clumsy to be effective.   He is in fact never really noticeable in possession retention and turnovers and as a result Mozart claimed that her is effective since he is physically powerful and pushed other competitors off the ball.  In essence in Super 15 and in tests Alberts is clueless in the case of breakdown ball protection and recovery.    
If you really study Alberts objectively you would find that in most cases after arrival at breakdown points - too late to be effective as a result of pace - he would normally stand around behind mauls and not enter it.   Matfield played no role whatsoever in ball protection and recovery - he is not physically strong enough to be effective.
Of the backline players - the most effective ball protection and recovery player is De Allende - he for instance in fact made three possession turnovers in the Scottish test - followed by Habana.
If we want in future be effective in that Department of the game we would have to look at least for one other loosie to be really competitive.     
  
                
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
09 Oct 2015, 02:08
#19
09 Oct 2015, 02:08#19
 Yeah 6. Mccaw 7. Cane 8. Read is an option QF onwards. But I doubt NZ well do that, most likely it well be 6. Kaino 7. Mccaw 8. Read.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
09 Oct 2015, 02:33
#20
09 Oct 2015, 02:33#20
The Breakdo wn Party Poopers could help spoil Queen Richie's good riddance party
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
09 Oct 2015, 02:49
#21
09 Oct 2015, 02:49#21
 To be fair that game that Aussie won, could of gone either way. Richie has been the best 7 in the world this year on current form with Pocock and Hooper, so he is not in the same category as Matfield is what I am saying.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:54
#22
09 Oct 2015, 03:54#22
 Luke
You make me smile about McCaw.  I know NZ supporters have ti defend McCaw at all costs - but as to his present efficiency as a 7, I have my doubts.   He thus far got too many penalties (inclusive of 2 yellow cards for transgressions in maul situations - so I would not say he is the mist effective 7 in the game,
I am still of the opinion that the quality of his performance has deteriorated over the past two years,       
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:00
#23
09 Oct 2015, 04:00#23
Pocock and Hooper are the clear openside flankers in world rugby, but good ol Richie is not a bad one to have around. Where does Louw rank???
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:05
#24
09 Oct 2015, 04:05#24
 MB
I am afraid nowhere. If Louw ha s to play he should be a blindsider - not an opensider.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:19
#25
09 Oct 2015, 04:19#25
Brussow is better than Louw, McCaw, Pocock and Hooper. We lost a competitive edge here. Brussow is also stronger. 
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:46
#26
09 Oct 2015, 04:46#26
I think no Brussouw is what's going to hurt us, I hope and pray Louw can survive.  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:11
#27
09 Oct 2015, 05:11#27
Meyer is a smart man, probably the best coach we have ever had. However, every coach makes mistakes, some they have to live with. This could very well be Meyers. I don't get the resistance by our coaches to assign a fetcher. Brussow has dominated McCaw in five tests now, every time he has played him. He has dominated the Aussies and Argies. What more does he need to do? Meyer initially selected Coetzee in 2012 ahead of Brussow and justified it by saying he wanted a ball carrier first and foremost. Coetzee had a very poor England series. And we failed at the breakdown throughout the rest of the year. I know we did well in 2013 with Duane, Alberts and Louw, but even then Louw was a liability with penalties and cards and the weaker of the three as a ball carrier and ground presence. Ironically, Brussow is the better carrier and far stronger than either Coetzee or Louw, b ut I would have dropped Louw altogether along with Kolisi and had Brussow and Coetzee.
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
09 Oct 2015, 07:16
#28
09 Oct 2015, 07:16#28
FOX, For once I actually agree with you, well, for the most part. You had me in the first sentence "Meyer is a smart man", I worked my way through that and I was pretty happy I did. Have you been taking your medication?
— END OF THREAD —

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