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Same Old Story

Started by DezertFox23 REPLIES691 VIEWS· 09 Aug 2015, 09:03
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DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Aug 2015, 09:03
#1
09 Aug 2015, 09:03#1
Sack Meyer, hey? And everything will be better. Get rid of him and our stock of quality players will increase. Our weak fledglings who are being dominated at super level will become stronger, faster, fitter, more intelligent. It's that easy! And what of the huge expectations of the team anyway? Right up until kickoff, this was THE favourite team to take it all. What happened? Did the team you all acknowledged as being the best shot for World Cup glory become nothing overnight? Do you realize that with such praise you fully endorsed Meyer, now sticking the knife in after a speed bump? Or does it burn to be humbled? You thought Argentina couldn't touch this team, it was all going to be easy. Same old story! 
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Aug 2015, 09:19
#2
09 Aug 2015, 09:19#2
 
It starts at the top, Dumbass.

Poor selections, poor coaching, lack of any intellect, ignorant of the modern game, no game plan at all, easily outsmarted and a passion for the out of form elderly player that made a name for themselves a decade ago.

What do you think?

Should a person like that stay?

If he were employed anywhere else and delivered the same standard of work he would have been fired 4 years ago.

It is because of him that we've seen the likes of Pienaar, HouGat, JJ, Bakkies, Gurthro, Kirschner, Taute, Jantjies, Du Preez, Werner Kruger, Lood, Goosen, Fat Fransie, Kolisi, Oupa Mohoje, Hendricks, Dean Greyling and the pathetic Victor Matfield brought into the mix.

He should take responsibility for what he's done.

He's an embarrassment.

 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Aug 2015, 14:38
#3
09 Aug 2015, 14:38#3

So exactly who should HM have selected .....who hasn't been given a fair chance that would make a difference. Name your match 23.

 

 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 12:28
#4
10 Aug 2015, 12:28#4

I'll tell you who Meyer should not have selected and all would have been well.......Kirchner, Mvovo, Habana, Fourie, Jean, Olivier, Morne, Pienaar, du Preez, Brits, Heinke v/d Merwe, Steenkamp, Bakkies, Matfield, Flip, Louw, Smith, Schalk and Alberts.


Players that should have come into the reckoning but never did or have had such little time under useless Meyer are: Senatla, Sithole, Combrink, v/Wyk, de Allende, Vorster, Odendaal, Frans Venter, Jantjies, Goosen, Hougaard (this year), Faf, Kitshoff, Nyakane, Marcel v/d Merwe, Malherbe, Lood, Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, Kolisi, Carr, Jaco Kriel, Elstadt, v/d Walt, CJ Stander, Labs, Mtembu.


Against Argentina.....Habana, Jean, Pienaar, Beast, Koch, Brussouw and Schalk were not our best options...that's half the team.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
10 Aug 2015, 12:38
#5
10 Aug 2015, 12:38#5
Most of your selections have failed already at test level or have been dominated throughout Super rugby. I fail to see how that gives us any advantage
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 13:18
#6
10 Aug 2015, 13:18#6
Fox stop speaking utter fucking rubbish.....NONE of my players have failed at test level nor being dominated at s15 level - you are lying and clutching at straws as your hero Meyer is making his name mud and being exposed as the incompetent coach that he is.......just look at the social media reaction to the clown.......you have to be one stupid prick for still standing by him.....but keep it up, its bloody funny   
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Aug 2015, 14:31
#7
10 Aug 2015, 14:31#7
 Ultimately the blame is Meyer's. He did not properly build a team that allows for the odd injury  in critical  positions.  He picked the teams and he coached  them. Total disaster?  No,  but  there is no way blame can be shifted to anyone else but Meyer. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 14:44
#8
10 Aug 2015, 14:44#8
Could it be we just don't have the players, that 2015 finds us in a transition phase ....a total disaster in the S15 suggests that's closer to the truth.  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 15:45
#9
10 Aug 2015, 15:45#9

Bullshit we have better players than we have ever had.....the same players did us proud in the 2014 S15, so the bullshit about the 2015 S15 does not wash especially when you consider the injuries the Sharks had and how well the Lions did with very little to work with.


I have followed the game closely for years and we have never been blessed with the pool of talent we have right now.


Never have we had the likes of Etzebeth, Lood, Willemse, PSDT, Jacques du Plessis, Ruan Botha, Mostert, Lewies, Jean Kleyn, RG Snyman, Jason Jenkins, Carl Wegner and Marais x 2 to choose from in the lock department, the same applies across the board


Hell look at centre.......Kriel, JJ, de Allende, v/Wyk, Taute, Howard, Vorster, Mnisi, Stokkies, Watermeyer, Frans, Esterhuizen, Fisher, Frans Venter, Odendaal, Serfontien, Williams, Sadie etc


Prop - Kitshoff, Koch, Malherbe, Kebble, Wilco Louw, Redelinghuis, S.v/d Merwe, Dreyer, Mellett, Nyakane, Marcel, Jannie, Beast, Thomas du Toit, Coenie, Chadwick, v/Dyk etc


The issue is with Meyer and his reliance on old players he is familiar with. He is too conservative to branch too far outside his comfort zone.


He is utterly useless  

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Aug 2015, 15:51
#10
10 Aug 2015, 15:51#10
 Meyer had time enough to blood promising youngsters.  In his 4 years,  he only did this when forced by injury. He is partly to blame... just the same as the idiot before him.  More than half his job is to build for the future. He put his house on the incumbents and the hasbeens.  It backfired. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 15:59
#11
10 Aug 2015, 15:59#11
Like who....who the hell will make a difference who he hasn't tried or wasn't injured. Right now Kriel is the only flavor of the day he hasn't given a chance. If anything he has tried far too many of these ordinary youngsters. Steph was rushed back, he looked like  a wimp out there. He tried your pick Koch  what happened Draad?
I am somewhat critical of HM, but for trying too much, abandoning our traditional game plan...our kick chase is non existent. And the fans want more ordinary young players who wouldn't smell Oz and NZ.
How incredibly silly this all is. 
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Aug 2015, 16:11
#12
10 Aug 2015, 16:11#12
 "......the same players did us proud in the 2014 S15"
Really? Check the final 2014 table.Sharks 3rd, Bulls 9th, Stormers 11th, Lions 12th, Cheetahs 14th...... and you call  that doing us proud? Better than 2015 but still mediocre in my books.

Compare that to 2013.Bulls 2nd, Cheetahs 6th, Stormers 7th, Sharks 8th, Kings 15th.
Marginally better than 2014.
Now check that 2012 final table.Stormers 1st, Bulls 5th, Sharks 6th, Cheetahs 10th, Lions 15th.Much better than 2013.
Our rugby, in total, has been going backwards year by year, since 2012.
But hey, that should  not have any effect on the Springboks. That stupid doos, HM has to produce. Come hell or  high-water. 


SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 17:53
#13
10 Aug 2015, 17:53#13

The biggest issue in SA rugby is its coaches, we don't have any that merit any credibility other than Ackerman and Swys who have managed to create something from so little at the Lions.


The likes of Ludeke, Drotske, Coetzee and Gold have been downright poor - in particular with their selections.


Using the S15 as a measure is laughable when you consider the coaches in charge.


Give our squads to a bunch of Kiwi coaches and I bet we would not be featuring where we did last season. Gold was struck by injuries so chances are he might have a season to redeem himself......but lets face it Ludeke and Coetzee are bloody awful and Drotske had less to work with.  

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 18:57
#14
10 Aug 2015, 18:57#14
No that's not it. Our coaches are fine, our players are fine...but the days where we were the only big guys on the block are over. Physically we are no better than parity now with Oz, NZ, the Poms and Bargies.

And in the backs we don't have the explosive choices NZ and to a lesser extent Oz have.

So we have to be smart and play a structured game based on technical skills and great goal kicking. The " expansive" game fans howl for simply means we play to our opponents strengths. 
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
10 Aug 2015, 19:32
#15
10 Aug 2015, 19:32#15
 Moz,  I'm not saying we should blame Meyer to the extent of firing him.  We had a bad day at the office and it rattled our players.  They will learn from it. The team on the field is probably the best ee have ATM,  but they are very green.  Exept for Kriel and PSDT,  most of the rest could have had more time on the field in the last 3 years. The odd 10 or 15 minutes here and there isn't enough. Meyer used the bench poorly in blooding new players,  but there is nothing to do about it now. Turning over the apple cart now,  would be a bigger mistake.  We better hope Vermeulen is ready at the WC,  because our major problem lies with the unbalanced loose trio without him and there really isn't anyone else. 
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Aug 2015, 19:46
#16
10 Aug 2015, 19:46#16
 
The biggest problem in my view is that we've become accustomed to struggling against lesser teams and in so doing accepting losses to them.

We should have crushed Argentina ... and Scotland ... and Wales ... but we didn't ...
 
We are supposed to be the best ... competing against top tier rugby nations like New Zealand ... not struggling against the likes of Argentina and Scotland and a hapless Wales.

Come on!!!!!!

Since when do we get excited about scoring a try against Argentina???

It should be a forgone conclusion that we're going to score several tries against these lesser teams.

Now we're looking for excuses. Trying to justify our loses to them ... looking for something ... anything to make ourselves feel better.

LOSING TO THEM IS JUST NOT FRIGGIN ACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!



 
 
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Aug 2015, 20:37
#17
10 Aug 2015, 20:37#17
 Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13079 RE: Same old story
August 10, 2015, 17:53:18

The biggest issue in SA rugby is its coaches, we don't have any that merit any credibility other than Ackerman and Swys who have managed to create something from so little at the Lions.


The likes of Ludeke, Drotske, Coetzee and Gold have been downright poor - in particular with their selections.


Correct. That is why none of our teams have done us any proud in many years. Even the new hype, Johan Ackerman has not really proved anything yet. They have done exceptionally well, given where they were but they were still quite average, to OK'ish, by any standards. We do not have coaches of note.


Our rugby is in dire straits and that is the bottom line. The sad reality is that, by the look of things, it is not going to improve any time soon.


Using the S15 as a measure is laughable when you consider the coaches in charge.


Give our squads to a bunch of Kiwi coaches and I bet we would not be featuring where we did last season. Gold was struck by injuries so chances are he might have a season to redeem himself......but lets face it Ludeke and Coetzee are bloody awful and Drotske had less to work with.

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 22:11
#18
10 Aug 2015, 22:11#18
Rubbish our coaches are poor.....Ludeke is another Meyer clone. Coetzee has never had it and nor has Drotske.
We have more than enough explosive talent in Willie, Kriel and de Allende for a start. There is x factor in a player like Senatla whom Meyer has missed a trick on. Add the best young 10 in the game in Pollard and the find of the year in Faf at 9.
We have more than enough to work with in the backs. The foundation  is set with Pollard at 10 and de Allende and Kriel in the centre....a combination that has already got the better of its NZ and Oz counterparts. Add the creativity and zip of Faf to the 9 spot instead of the passive and unimaginative Pienaar and you already improve our prospects twofold.
It does not come better than Willie at 15, given the free reign to create at will. Add some blistering pace and dancing feet in Senatla on the wing and our backs are better than anything any other country has. We can't match the Kiwi's out wide but apart from Fekitoa their centre cupboard is bare. Pollard is better than any of their young 10's and in Faf we have a match for Smith.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 22:12
#19
10 Aug 2015, 22:12#19
I watched some highlights from the World Swimming champs and you can see the same phenomenon there. In the old days American and Aussie swimmers dominated everything....now the Brits are competitive. Training is available worldwide, big kids come out of every gene pool. To remain at the top you need a clear model. NZ has one...we have compromised ours, partly because it is  not working as well as a result of the above, and partly because SA fans seem to want the team  to play like All Blacks.

I have never had that need. I love the tight game, the huge defence, the fear inducing kick chase and the lightning strike off turnover ball. It beats boring phase play every time.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 22:17
#20
10 Aug 2015, 22:17#20
 Nothing worse than the kick and chase 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Aug 2015, 23:19
#21
10 Aug 2015, 23:19#21
Losing is worse than kick and chase.....and that's where young guns running gloriously throu gh dappled sunshine will lead us. 
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
10 Aug 2015, 23:34
#22
10 Aug 2015, 23:34#22
Nothing worse than frantic running, getting turned over and booted back in your corner and watching these headless chooks fluff tackles. Trust me Davey, it doesn't work!
TT
The_Truth
Club Pro471 posts
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
11 Aug 2015, 08:43
#23
11 Aug 2015, 08:43#23
"We have more than enough explosive talent in Willie, Kriel and de Allende for a start."
??? Our opposition scored more tries than us in all our matches. Defence! de Allende is a 50% tackler and Willie maybe a 20% tackler.

"There is x factor in a player like Senatla whom Meyer has missed a trick on."
??? So let's add another poor tackler.......................


"The foundation  is set with Pollard at 10 and de Allende and Kriel in the centre....a combination that has already got the better of its NZ and Oz counterparts."
??? Got the better of their counterparts??? I thought we lost those matches..............

"It does not come better than Willie at 15, given the free reign to create at will. Add some blistering pace and dancing feet in Senatla on the wing and our backs are better than anything any other country has. "
??? Create what? He is a self-centred arsehole who plays for personal glory. He's been toothless in the S15 and continues his bad form in the tests. Cannot tackle, makes the wrong decisions, struggles to make legal passes. Insecure, unpredictable (for his own team mates too) and unreliable....................
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Aug 2015, 16:05
#24
11 Aug 2015, 16:05#24

Troof its a team game you dumb prick.......because the Boks lost does not mean the Bok centre combo could not dominate their opponents now does it.....or is that how you read the game you ignorant fool.


Its a fact that de Allende and Kriel were far superior to their NZ and Oz counterparts......wake up.


Take us through what Willie is again.......man you are another Meyer clone....fucking waste of space  

— END OF THREAD —

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