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FORUM / RUGBY /  Science vs Creation science . . .

Science vs Creation science . . .

Started by Rooinek144 REPLIES2,738 VIEWS· 07 Jan 2015, 13:30
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RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:06
#81
08 Jan 2015, 14:06#81
Pffffffffffffffffffffhahahahahahaha!

Baboon-ou is quoting from a website called "Conservapedia" (just hover over one of his links to get the address).

You guys have to go check this place out! It's hilarious! It calls itself the "trustworthy encyclopedia" and it's logo is an American flag!

Just a few gems I found in the first few minutes:

The Age of the Earth has been a matter of interest to humans for millennia. All verifiable evidence indicates that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old. Yet with circular reasoning and implausible assumptions, liberals insist that the Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years (4.54 × 109 ± 1%).

A liberal is someone who supports liberalism, which is a political philosophy on the left of the political spectrum. Liberals favor an increase in government spending, power, and control, as in ObamaCare.

Most liberals also support the censorship and denial of Christianity because of its strong moral values[2]. Liberals who are a part of the secular left prefer the atheist religion over the Christian faith, as atheism has no objective morality to hinder their big government plans. This lack of an objective morality, or moral relativism, was used as one of the main justifications for crimes against humanity by the Nazis and the Communists, both of whom were liberal. Increasingly, liberals side with the homosexual agenda, including supporting homosexual "marriage"


Gun control attempts to restrict the lawful purchase, ownership, or carrying of guns, including those acquired for defensive or sporting purposes. Studies show that increasing lawful access to guns results in less crime,[1] but liberals push gun control because it increases the dependency of voters on government for protection. The political effect of gun control is to shift voters leftward, and hence the primary supporters of gun control are the liberal media and leftist politicians.


The global warming theory is the liberal hoax[2] that the world is becoming dangerously warmer due to the emission of greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide. Liberals have used the theory of man-made global warming to seek rationing by government of life-saving energy production and consumption.



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:19
#82
08 Jan 2015, 14:19#82
 Atherism is not attractive  and offers nothig Hence the following is not surprising:

Currently, global atheism is shrinking and sound scholarship in the discipline of demographic research indicates that the shrinking of global atheism will accelerate and affect Western atheism (Particualry since darwinsim if crumbling and cannot be sustained any longer in the face of modern science) (see: Decline of atheism).[10][11][12][13] Global atheism has been on the decline since 2000.[14] In addition, in terms of the English speaking world, Google trend data as of August 2013 indicates that the world's interest in atheism and evolutionism has declined since 2004 while interest in God has increased.[15] The British academic Eric Kaufmann told a secular audience in Australia: "The trends that are happening worldwide inevitably in an age of globalization are going to affect us."[16]

The 2004 to 2007 publicity campaign for atheism in the Western World, offering a militant form of atheism (called the New Atheism) was not sustainable.[17] The level of public interest in atheism is not coming back in the West and global atheism shrinking will make subsequent publicity attempts more likely to fail.[18]

Ac tusally oaks the New athesim represnted by Dorkins is going downhill as dorkins has made a compete dork of himself by his rants.

Atheism is always very small minority view and will get even smaller. A more hapless bunch one cant find. They are truly tragic.If you see an atheist give the poor oak a hug and tell them God still loves them!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:27
#83
08 Jan 2015, 14:27#83
 Still no sign of an answer from ou rooitwitter re first cause and DNA.You need more time to google rooitwitter. Not finding any answers. bwahahhahahahahahaha By the way the number of Muslims is 1.6 million.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:29
#84
08 Jan 2015, 14:29#84
 rooitwit there are plenty of websites telling folk about what miserable oak atheists are. Why dont you oaks like to marry? Higher level of gay adherents?
Anyhow I would prefer to stick to the first cause bit, DNA and the cell.I have you atheists in a corner on this for sure!!!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:32
#85
08 Jan 2015, 14:32#85
 The fastest growing religions:

The five fastest growing religions by conversions (new adherents per year, in millions):

1.Christianity2,501,3962.Islam865,5583.Buddhism156,6094.Sikhism28,9615.Baha'is26,333

Next
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:34
#86
08 Jan 2015, 14:34#86

A true Christian is using this website to back up his claims

 

Wow ok !! 

 

As for this stupid DNA comparison, here are just a few ideas getting thrown around. 

 

DNA could have existed long before life itself

NASA Proves Building Blocks Of DNA Come From Space

DNA could have come from Nature

DNA could have predated life

 

All theories Beeno, some even from scientists, only you believe in your theory, and millions do and don't, but because you believe it to be true, all other people are stupid and Beeno is the high and mighty.... What a crock.

 

We don't know the answer to where DNA came from, asking where DNA came from is like asking where the first tree came from, or the first cloud, or even where the first grain of salt came from in the ocean..... all nonsensicle the ories and rhetoric.

 

The implication is that DNA building blocks come from space. It's like saying milk comes from the supermarket - while you can obtain milk from the supermarket, that is not the origin of milk

 

Get a grip Beeno, you come across as incredibly naive

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:41
#87
08 Jan 2015, 14:41#87
 DA could you attempt to give a scientific rebuttal. Not silly reasons like you have posted. You must have had plenty of time to google something. But I know you will struggle. BwahahahahahhahahahaqIf you cant do anything you can just hope somebody can but dont hold your breath. Do you relise how pathetic your post is!! I guess not!
Thanks

DA is proving to be the weakest link! 
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:50
#88
08 Jan 2015, 14:50#88

“Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. In 1990, 935 million people were Muslims and this figure had escalated to around 1.2 billion by 2000, meaning that around one in five people follow Islam.

 

Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world. In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity” (Guinness World Records 2003, pg 102) (Emphasis added)

 

According to Reader’s digest Almanic year book Islam grew by 235% in 50 years between 1934-1984

 

According to CNN:

 

“The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

 

----

 

It's all relative Beeno, it just depends where you look

 

Your argument and stats lack all credibility

 

 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Jan 2015, 14:56
#89
08 Jan 2015, 14:56#89

Beeno, just to prove once and for all how dumb you can be, and how you misconstrue the facts you post.

 

This is from the exact same website, that you got the below info from

 

The five fastest growing religions by conversions (new adherents per year, in millions):

1.Christianity2,501,3962.Islam865,5583.Buddhism156,6094.Sikhism28,9615.Baha'is26,333 From the same website:
Since Islam from the base point in 2000 is a smaller overall religion than Christianity (about 60% the size of Christianity) the same (roughly) growth in absolute number of adherents translate into a larger relative growth. Respectively 87.61% versus 52.61% in relation to the initial size of the religion & 5.4% versus 1.3% as a proportion of the religions size compared to the global human population.    
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Jan 2015, 15:05
#90
08 Jan 2015, 15:05#90
Beeno1

Status:Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13701 RE: Science vs Creation science . . .
January 08, 2015, 14:41:59 DA could you attempt to give a scientific rebuttal.

 

Beeno

 

Stop being a thick idiot, for a qualified chartered accountant you are seriously not displaying much intellect on here

 

You want a scientific rebuttal from me for your ridiculous DNA theory?

 

Go ask an electrician, plumber, cashier, mechanic, doctor, lawyer, clerk or  petrol attendant

 

They may show more interest in your ludicrous theories of stupidity

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:23
#91
08 Jan 2015, 19:23#91

 
Interesting. As presented this chart shows IQs vs % Atheist. But what is percentage atheist? There has to be another variable hidden behind the number. It should be exposed.

 

Still let's take it at face value. And let's eliminate the morons below 90 IQ. They clearly aren't in a position to crack this problem.

 

So in the above 90 IQ group we see the vast majority of observations having a low Atheist percentage. In fact it says of intelligent people 4 observations are more than 50% atheist.....and 45 are less than 50% atheist. The highest IQ observation came from a group/person who was only 12% atheist.  And there is no observable slope indicating intelligence goes up with a theism....more the opposite.

 

One can only assume that the poster who posted this and thought he was supporting his atheist cause is outside the set of interest with an IQ of less than 90. 

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:26
#92
08 Jan 2015, 19:26#92
I like the idea about excluding the below average intelligence people, but this would mean Sebastian Chabal and Beeno are not allowed to participate.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:29
#93
08 Jan 2015, 19:29#93
 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:37
#94
08 Jan 2015, 19:37#94
"I like the idea about excluding the below average intelligence people, but this would mean Sebastian Chabal and Beeno are not allowed to participate."
I think you can add Moffie to that list. I mean really, how stupid do you have to be to whine and stamp your foot about an explanation of the graph's axes when a link was provided for you to the original article that explains it all? How stupid do you have to be not to be able to click on a simple link that would answer your question?
LMAO!
Also, take a look at Moffie's views on global warming and compare them to the Conservapedia take on global warming. I reckon Moffie subscribes to the vast majority of Conservapedia views.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:38
#95
08 Jan 2015, 19:38#95
 
This sum's up a Bible Bashing Religious person. They are going to heaven everyone else is not. Blahde Blah.
Calling all other religions wrong and they are right, even if they are total hypocrites.Even other religions under the Christian banner are wrong like protestants etc.
Or if someone does not believe in Sunday School, they are athiests according to the Sunday School crew.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:42
#96
08 Jan 2015, 19:42#96
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jan 2015, 19:49
#97
08 Jan 2015, 19:49#97

Waaaaaaahahahaha RooiAAS posts a link that no longer headlines the article and then complains if it can't be found. Stupid stuff.

 

Still this humiliation for the poor AAS, where his graph proves exactly that intelligent people are more religious, shows why fools shouldn't be let anywhere near statistics. Can you imagine the fog of confusion this poor fella is wading through as he reads all his left wing nonsense.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 21:36
#98
08 Jan 2015, 21:36#98
 Rooitwit I was googling why atheists are so suicidal and came up with this website along with a host of others. Seesm you atheists are a very sad bunch. 
Those atheistic heroes of yours are in dispair.
Anyhow I am still waiting for an answre to the original cause and DNA and in formation issue.
Bwahhaahhahahahahahaha ou DA's childish bluster is showing these foolish athsits are taking the strain!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jan 2015, 21:41
#99
08 Jan 2015, 21:41#99
 So in the above 90 IQ group we see the vast majority of observations having a low Atheist percentage. In fact it says of intelligent people 4 observations are more than 50% atheist.....and 45 are less than 50% atheist. The highest IQ observation came from a group/person who was only 12% atheist.  And there is no observable slope indicating intelligence goes up with atheism....more the opposite.

 

One can only assume that the poster who posted this and thought he was supporting his atheist cause is outside the set of interest with an IQ of less than 90. 


Waaaaaaahahahaha RooiAAS posts a link that no longer headlines the article and then complains if it can't be found. Stupid stuff.

 

Still this humiliation for the poor AAS, where his graph proves exactly that intelligent people are more religious, shows why fools shouldn't be let anywhere near statistics. Can you imagine the fog of confusion this poor fella is wading through as he reads all his left wing nonsense.


Well spotted Dr Moz. Whahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ou rooitwit is an EGG magnet!

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 22:07
#100
08 Jan 2015, 22:07#100
 Obviously WikiPedia is more objective than a source from either Christians or Athiasts.

Religiosity and intelligenceFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThis article relies too much on references to primary sources. Please improve this article by adding secondary or tertiary sources(July 2014)

The topic of religiosity and intelligence is the statistical relationship between intelligence and religiosity. Studies have begun to explore the link between religiosity and issues related to intelligence and educational level in countries as well as on the individual level.

Most of the recent scientific studies have found a negative correlation between I.Q. and religiosity.[1][2] On the individual level, the education level is positively correlated with a belief in a God In African countries, and negatively correlated in Western countries. The frequency of church visits is however positively correlated with education level in English-speaking countries as well as in Protestantic Europe.[3]

Although statistical studies show that the poorest countries tend to be more religious, experts suggest that the reason may be that religions play a more active socialmoral and cultural role in those countries.[4][5][6] Religions in wealthy countries used to have a more specific moral and spiritual role.[7]

Contents

  [hide

Summary of research and definitions of terms[edit]

Main articles: Religiosity and IntelligenceDifferences in educational attainment by religious groups in the U.S., 2001 data.

Intelligence is a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to more specifically define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativitypersonalitycharacterknowledge, or wisdom. However, some psychologists prefer not to include these traits in the definition of intelligence.[8][9]

A widely researched index or classification of intelligence among scientists is Intelligence Quotient (I.Q.). I.Q. is a summary index, calculated by testing individuals' abilities in a variety of tasks and producing a composite score to represent overall ability, e.g., Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale. It is used to predict educational outcomes and other variables of interest.

Others have attempted to measure intelligence indirectly by looking at individuals' or group's educational attainment, although this risks bias from other demographic factors, such as ageincomegender and cultural background, all of which can affect educational attainment.[8]

Dissatisfaction with traditional IQ tests has led to the development of alternative theories. In 1983, Howard Gardner proposed the theory of multiple intelligences, which broadens the conventional definition of intelligence, since the cognitive or mental capacity of an individual logically includes all forms of mental qualities, not simply the ones most transparent to standardized I.Q. tests. The categories of intelligences Gardner proposes are logical,linguisticspatialmusicalkinesthetic, naturalist, intrapersonal and interpersonal intelligences.[10]

The term religiosity refers to degrees of religious behaviour, belief, or spirituality. The measurement of religiosity is hampered by the difficulties involved in defining what is meant by the term. Numerous studies have explored the different components of religiosity, with most finding some distinction between religious beliefs/ doctrine, religious practice, and spirituality. Studies can measure religious practice by counting attendance at religious services, religious beliefs/ doctrine by asking a few doctrinal questions, while spirituality can be measured by asking respondents about their sense of oneness with the divine or through detailed standardized measurements. When religiosity is measured, it is important to specify which aspects of religiosity are referred to.

Studies comparing religious belief and IQ[edit]

In a 2013 meta-analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, of 63 scientific studies about IQ and religiosity, a negative relation between intelligence and religiosity was found in 53, and a positive relation in the remaining ten . Controlling for other factors, they can only confidently show strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants.[1][2]

The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[11]

Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynnemeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries.[11] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than non-atheists.

Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”.[11]

Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society from London's Birkbeck College, expressed concern that the study failed to take into account a complex range of social, economic and historical factors, each of which has been shown to interact with religion and IQ in different ways.[12] Gallup surveys, for example, have found that the world's poorest countries are consistently the most religious, perhaps because religion plays a more functional role (helping people cope) in poorer nations.[5][6]

Commenting on some of the above studies in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."[12] A study published in Social Psychology Quarterly in March 2010[13] also stated that "atheism ...correlate[s] with higher intelligence".[14]

...belief in God may be intuitive for reasons related to more general features of human cognition that give rise to tendencies toward dualism (Bering, 2006, 2011), anthropomorphism (Epley,Waytz, & Cacioppo, 2007; Waytz et al., 2010), and promiscuous teleology (Kelemen & Rosset, 2009)... What’s more, the belief in God may give rise to a feedback cycle whereby satisfying explanatory appeals to God reinforce the intuitive cognitive style that originally favored the belief in God.“”- Amitai Shenhav, David G. Rand, and Joshua D. Greene[15]

Even at the scale of the individual, IQ may not directly cause more disbelief in God. Dr David Hardman of London Metropolitan University says: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief." He adds that other studies do nevertheless correlate IQ with being willing or able to question beliefs.[12]

Researcher Gregory S. Paul's findings suggest that economic development has a closer relationship with religiosity.[16] He argues that once any "nation's population becomes prosperous and secure, for example through economic security and universal health care, much of the population loses interest in seeking the aid and protection of supernatural entities." Other studies have shown that increased wealth is correlated with a decline in religious beliefs.[17][18] Indeed, the majority of the nations that showed a strong relationship between low religiosity and high IQ in the 2008 study were developed nations.[11]

Study examining theistic belief and cognitive style[edit]

The idea that analytical thinking makes one less likely to be religious is an idea supported by other early studies on this issue[19] including a report fromHarvard University.[15] First of all, the Harvard researchers found evidence suggesting that all religious beliefs become more confident when participants are thinking intuitively (atheist and theists each become more convinced). Thus reflective thinking generally tends to create more qualified, doubted belief.

Furthermore, the Harvard study found that participants who tended to think more reflectively were less likely to believe in God.[15] Reflective thinking was further correlated with greater changes in beliefs since childhood: these changes were towards atheism for the most reflective participants, and towards greater belief in God for the most intuitive thinkers. The study controlled for personality differences and cognitive ability, suggesting the differences were due to thinking styles - not simply IQ or raw cognitive ability.[15] An experiment in the study found that participants moved towards greater belief in God after writing essays about how intuition yielded a right answer or reflection yielded a wrong answer (and conversely, towards atheism if primed to think about either a failure of intuition or success of reflection). The authors say it is all evidence that a relevant factor in religious belief is thinking style.[15] The authors add that, even if intuitive thinking tends to increase belief in God, "it does not follow that reliance on intuition is always irrational or unjustified."[15]

Studies examining religiosity and emotional intelligence[edit]

A small 2004 study by Ellen Paek empirically examined the extent to which religiosity, operationalized as religious orientation and religious behaviour, is related to the controversial[20][21][22] idea of emotional intelligence (EI). The study examined the extent to which religious orientation and behavior were related to self-reported (EI) in 148 church attending adult Christians.[23] (non-religious individuals were not part of the study). The study found that the individuals' self-reported religious orientation was positively correlated with their perceiving themselves to have greater EI. While the number of religious group activities was positively associated with perceived EI, number of years of church attendance was unrelated. Significant positive correlations were also found between level of religious commitment and perceived EI. Thus, the Christian volunteers were more likely to consider themselves emotionally intelligent if they spent more time in group activities and had more commitment to their beliefs.

Tischler, Biberman and McKeage warn that there is still ambiguity in the above concepts. In their 2002 article, entitled “Linking emotional intelligence, spirituality and workplace performance: Definitions, models and ideas for research”, they reviewed literature on both EI and various aspect of spirituality. They found that both EI and spirituality appear to lead to similar attitudes, behaviors and skills, and that there often seems to be confusion, intersection and linking between the two constructs.[24]

Studies exploring religiosity and educational attainment[edit]

Main article: Religiosity and education

The relationship between the level of religiosity and the level of education has been a philosophical, as well as a scientific and political, concern since the second half of the 20th century.

The parameters in this field are slightly different compared to those brought forward above: if the "level of religiosity" remains a concept which is difficult to determine scientifically, on the contrary, the "level of education" is, indeed, easy to compile, official data on this topic being publicly accessible to anyone in most countries.

Different studies available show contrasting conclusions. An analysis of World Values Survey data showed that in most countries, there is no significant relationship between education and religious attendance, with some differences between "western" countries and former socialist countries, which they attribute to historical/ political/ economic factors (not intelligence).[25] Other studies have noted a positive relationship.[

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 22:11
#101
08 Jan 2015, 22:11#101
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2395972/Atheists-higher-IQs-Their-intelligence-makes-likely-dismiss-religion-irrational-unscientific.html

Atheists 'have higher IQs': Their intelligence 'makes them more likely to dismiss religion as irrational and unscientific'.

  • Research found those with higher IQs more likely to dismiss religion
  • Another drawback to being religious, or at least Christian is losing out on top jobs

By DANIEL BATES

PUBLISHED: 23:52, 16 August 2013 | UPDATED: 09:56, 17 August 2013

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View comments

Atheists tend to be more intelligent than religious people, according to US study.

Researchers found that those with high IQs had greater self-control and were able to do more for themselves - so did not need the benefits that religion provides.

They also have better self esteem and built more supportive relationships, the study authors said.

New evidence: A study has concluded that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers

The conclusions were the result of a review of 63 scientific studies about religion and intelligence dating between 1928 and last year.

In 53 of these there was a ‘reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity’. 

In just 10 was that relationship positive.



(BEENO, case closed)



SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
08 Jan 2015, 22:23
#102
08 Jan 2015, 22:23#102
  Beeno, by the time you have finished your Bible bashing -any of the Christians on this website will convert to anything. 
Surely if it is related to Beeno, it cant be the truth.   

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jan 2015, 22:54
#103
08 Jan 2015, 22:54#103

Well you see Shark the trouble lies in how you ask the question. Asking the question, framing it right,  is half the battle. And if you have studied as many of these macro statistical efforts as I have, as a doctoral student, consultant and executive you conclude that researchers frame the question to get the results they want.

 

I'll give you an example. A famous heart drug was tested on 6000 patients. In the set of 3000 that took the drug 20 people died.....in the set that didn't 30 died. On the basis of that the drug company claimed they reduced morbidity by a third. But actually if the results were accurate, a big if, your chance of a heart attack declined by 10 in 3000. If you took the drug your chances of a heart attack were 0.67%....if you didn't take it they were 1%.

 

Now that's a meanigful difference of say 6.7% if you use the drug for 20 years and the efficacy remains constant. But of course over that time your liver and kidneys are taking a beating detoxing the chemistry.

 

Is it worth it....a 33% reduction in the likelyhood of a heart attack next year seems worth it.....but not  a 6.7% reduction in actual heart attacks over 20 years, accompanied by cases of liver damage.

 

 

No doubt if you include the poor countries of Europe and S America you will get a strong correlation with religion and IQs. But that's a false correlation based on the underlying varaiable the GNP in religious countries.

 

Don't believe these studies without doing your homework is my advice.

TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
08 Jan 2015, 23:18
#104
08 Jan 2015, 23:18#104
 It's all a small sample of the full dataset to try and prove a point... You will notice that the highest IQ on that graph is 110, which is basically "average"...

Now look at the following quotes from a peer reviewed psychology paper...
Is it smart to believe in God? The relationship of religiosity with education and intelligence

Gerhard MeisenbergI; Heiner RindermannII; Hardik PatelIII; Michael A. WoodleyIII


IRoss University Medical School - Dominica
IIChemnitz University of Technology - Germany
IIIRoss University Medical School - Dominica


"Education explains only .3% of the variability in religious belief worldwide, but country of residence explains more than 28%."

"Positive relationships between education and religious belief become again more common at the highest stages of cognitive development. Sweden, the United Kingdom, Hong Kong and South Korea all have significantly positive relationships between education and religious belief. One plausible explanation is that at this level of cognitive development, the most educated or intelligent sections of the population are able to construct reasons for those irrational beliefs that satisfy their emotional needs, are socially desirable, or promote their career ambitions."

"Specifically, many intellectuals assign scientific and religious explanations to separate domains: Science for explaining the material world and as the foundation for technology; and religion to give meaning to life and for ethical guidance (Gould, 1997)."

"The separation of cognitive domains can explain the repeated finding that students and practitioners of the applied sciences (medicine, accounting, chemical engineering, primary education) tend to be more religious, and that religiosity is lowest among psychologists and social scientists (Gross & Simmons, 2009; Lehman, 1974; Leuba, 1921; Thalheimer, 1973; Vaughan, Smith, & Sjoberg, 1966). The application of rational analysis to humans, especially with the purpose of understanding fundamental issues rather than solving specific problems, is inimical to religion because it encroaches on a domain that most people reserve for religion. The applied sciences favor the non-use of reason in human affairs by focusing rational analysis on problem solving in emotionally irrelevant domains.
"

And I can guarantee you that the "practitioners of the applied sciences" have an average IQ, much higher than the population average, but also higher than the IQ's of "social scientists".
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Jan 2015, 23:52
#105
08 Jan 2015, 23:52#105
Thanks Beeno
If anything, you and CC have confirmed to me exactly what the general consensus is regarding Christians, by people who have different views
As soon as someone has a different opinion, you hurt insults and quote arduous scripts, you yourselves cannot answer...  Really quite pathetic
Care to answer why people who still work on Sundays are no longer put to death?
Or how about women getting married that are not virgins? 
Please advise me, I may learn something new



SH
Sharky54Club Pro247 posts
09 Jan 2015, 01:06
#106
09 Jan 2015, 01:06#106
DA. I am not sure how long you have been around this group because I dont recognize your alias however I have been contributing to forums like this with Beeno in the midst for over 10 years now. I can tell you he argues like a childish, 10 year old little b!tch which is exactly what he is.

You wont win an argument with him because its like arguing with a child who makes things up as he goes along.

True village idiot of the highest order. Don't waste your time.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
09 Jan 2015, 01:09
#107
09 Jan 2015, 01:09#107
@The_Truth,
"Education explains only .3% of the variability in religious belief worldwide, but country of residence explains more than 28%."

Have you ever considered that the biggest influence on religious beliefs is country of residence.
Southern Europe is catholic and Northern Europe is primarily protestant. Northern Europe is much richer than Southern Europe. Protestant is usually family decedent, and it is not.really that something that people do. Their are more agnostic, or some would say athiast.Walk around in Europe in Catholic countries vs Protestant, and their is a significant difference in the amount of churches. 
South America is also poor and they are Catholic. Ireland is the only Northern Europe country that is catholic. They have allways been the most poor until recently America IT companies based them self their to access Europe, and only pay 10% corporate tax. 


@Mozart"And if you have studied as many of these macro statistical efforts as I have, as a doctoral student, consultant and executive you conclude that researchers frame the question to get the results they want."
You have not created a counter argument, instead stating your own experience to provide support to your original argument to give it weight. That suggests that the premise of the argument is either wrong or you cant logically build a strong enough argument to prove that it is not.
Although I am also degree educated, I have never seen a need to sit more exams when I can learn outside of university. I have my own company in digital marketing and I deal with stats and complex data every day of my life. I build advanced  algorithms to combine with various metrics and bidding to optimise Paid search campaigns like Google Adwords, Facebook, Microsoft Bing Ads, Remarketing etc, etc.  (They ads that follow you around, that is part of what I do...) . I am 37 now, and about to launch a 2nd related business selling leads to banks. 
However it goes back to the original comment I made on this thread.The smartest 500 people in the world mostly believe in Evolution, and therefore not creationism.The smartest 5000, 50000, etc, etc, etc mostly believe in evolution. Do you think any of these people think that only one religion goes to heaven? 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jan 2015, 02:10
#108
09 Jan 2015, 02:10#108
Not really SB. I haven't  made  an assertion here ...I simply torpedoed RooiAAS' simplistic correlation. What I'm saying beyond that is macro statistical studies are controlled by how the null hypothesis  is framed. 

That sounds like an exciting company you have put together at a very young age....good luck with it.
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,218 posts
09 Jan 2015, 02:40
#109
09 Jan 2015, 02:40#109
It is difficult to argue with different people at the same time  
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Jan 2015, 08:04
#110
09 Jan 2015, 08:04#110
Sharky54

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 177 RE: Science vs Creation science . . .
January 09, 2015, 01:06:46 DA. I am not sure how long you have been around this group because I dont recognize your alias however I have been contributing to forums like this with Beeno in the midst for over 10 years now. I can tell you he argues like a childish, 10 year old little b!tch which is exactly what he is.

You wont win an argument with him because its like arguing with a child who makes things up as he goes along.

True village idiot of the highest order. Don't waste your time.

 

Thanks for the heads up Sharky54

 

I have already been convinced, after reading his posts, that you are spot on with your assesment.

 

The evidence is conclusive and binding

 

Seldom do I experience such stupidity from a poster, well, except from CC, but they are alike in nature I see, but alas, in their minds, all is good, so I shall leave them to continue to demonstrate their lack of intellect.

 

Good to see you posting

 

 

 

 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Jan 2015, 08:25
#111
09 Jan 2015, 08:25#111
"And if you have studied as many of these macro statistical efforts as I have, as a doctoral student, consultant and executive you conclude that researchers frame the question to get the results they want."
You have not created a counter argument, instead stating your own experience to provide support to your original argument to give it weight. That suggests that the premise of the argument is either wrong or you cant logically build a strong enough argument to prove that it is not.

Spot on Sharkbok. There was a time when this was Moffie's standard debating style. Instead of putting up an argument, he used to talk about his degrees, his salary, his house, his cars and even his position in the Vegemite Depot he used to work at . . . as if that alone made him right and the other "lesser" person wrong.

I'd like to take some credit for changing that style of Moffie's because even though he still carries on like a pompous and self-important old windbag, he seldom boasts and brags about his alleged achievements like he used to because he remembers the embarrassment I used to heap on him when I pointed out what a conceited and puffed up toad he sounded like. He's probably getting a bit red-faced right now as he reads this. Wehe!

Anyway, this was an interesting exercise in IQ all on its own. First Moffie stamped and cried like a baby because he didn't even know there was a link and when it was pointed out to him that there was in fact a link, he got all smug and supercilious because the link took him to the general page and not the specific article. Sadly, this again was a failed IQ test for the board's self-appointed genius. It really wouldn't have taken a very clever person to simply hover over the link and realise that the board's swearing filter had changed the word "analysis" on the URL to "[removed]ysis"and then simply manually changed the URL and bingo. That's what an intelligent and resourceful person would have done. A stupid and helpless little child would just whine about it . . . as Moffie did!

LMAO!
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jan 2015, 09:49
#112
09 Jan 2015, 09:49#112
 

So after all’s said and done, what’s the outcome of this lengthy “debate” … ??


The atheists remain steadfast in their beliefs … errrrr …. disbelief. There is no God. We are merely here to procreate. Death brings our meaningless lives to a close. There are no consequences for wickedness. We can do as we please ... as doing good or evil carries no reward … no punishment.


Has anyone been converted to the Christian way of thinking?


NO!!


Have they even considered it as a possibility?


NO!!


They think we’re all off our rocker. We believe in fantasies. Christ is delusional and the message He brought is a lot of gobbledygook.


Then we have those who believe that any religion will do. That they all lead the way to “Heaven” and that we the Christian, are arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental snobs and have no right to claim that Christ is the one and only way to reconciliation with the Father.


To them calling on our ancestors to guide us there is sufficient. Funny how the hordes of Noah’s day said the same.   

 

No worries, boys … Hell, you guys can even worship the moon and it’ll see you into His kingdom, right?? … and to top it all … your evil deeds and rejection of Christ have no consequences, so do as you please. There are no repercussions for your unbelieving hearts … nor your sin.   


Have any of these been tempted to convert?


NO!!


Have any of these considered it a possibility?


NO!!


The Christians remain steadfast in their beliefs. We regard the atheists as fools. Their lack of understanding is beyond us. Their propensity for nonsense leaves us puzzled. 


Like I said in an earlier post … the word of God isn’t enough on its own to bring clarity.


It is as nonsense to them.


Feel free Beandip to continue your quest.


It's to no avail though .




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jan 2015, 09:57
#113
09 Jan 2015, 09:57#113
 Dr MOz oiu rooitwit and fellow travellors lack the I Q to follow your post.Of course stats can be effected by so many variables.What is sidesplitting is ou rooitwit the EGG MAGNET posting a graph that torpeadoes his argumentHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THE FOOLISH ATHESITS ARE FIRST CLASS COMEDY!
However we mus get back to business. Could the atheist brigade like sharky, sharkbok rooitwit and DA or indeed anybody explain:How nothing produced ther univese without an eternal first cause.How DNA came to existHow the simplest cell came to exist
I have asked for scientific explanations for this not all I get is childish bluster. Its day now since the challenge was laid down. Plenty of time to do a google search etc. I have to assume you know how to google!But alas for the foolish atheists they are completely stumped and know it. Why because even a halfwit will be able to tell you nothing cant produce anything. Atheists are surely the most foolish folk ever!
GIVEN THE TIME THAT HAS ELAPSED I AM DECLARING IT GAME SET AND MATCH.IN THE SPIRIT OF SEEKING TRUTH THIS CAN BE OVER TURNED SHOULD ANYBODY PROVIDE ANY SCIENTIFIC POOF. DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH OAKS. THE DARWINIAN DINOSAURS ARE HISTORY. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:15
#114
09 Jan 2015, 10:15#114
 The five fastest growing religions in terms of absolute numbers (new adherents per year, in millions):

1.

Christianity

25,210,195

2.

Islam

22,588,676

3.

Hinduism

12,533,734

4.

Chinese folk-religions

3,715,548

5.

Buddhism

3,687,527

 

The five fastest growing religions in terms of relative growth compared to existing size of religion:

1.

Zoroastrianism

2.65%

2.

Bahá'í

2.28%

3.

Islam

2.13%

4.

Mandeans

2.12%

5.

Sikhism

1.87%

 

The five fastest growing religions by conversions (new adherents per year, in millions):

1.

Christianity

2,501,396

2.

Islam

865,558

3.

Buddhism

156,609

4.

Sikhism

28,961

5.

Baha'is

26,333

 

The five fastest growing religions by births (new adherents per year, in millions):

1.

Christianity

22,708,799

2.

Islam

21,723,118

3.

Hinduism

13,194,111

4.

Ethnoreligionists

4,098,003

5.

Animists

3,985,506


Please note who is tops all the time

 


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:25
#115
09 Jan 2015, 10:25#115
Pfffffhahahaha!

Where did you get the stats from this time, Baboon-ou? I think after your Conservapedia embarrassment you should put up your sources in future.

Oh and please explain how the graph I put up "torpeadoes" (sic) my argument? You may save yourself a bit of embarrassment if you take the trouble to visit the original page (the one your pal Moffie wasn't bright enough to find) which is here: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/08/new-meta-analysis-checks-the-correlation-between-intelligence-and-faith/

Unfortunately I can't link it because the word "analysis" is corrupted by the swear filter . . . something I can bypass in the normal text box but not in a link.

Off you go then. Do come back and discuss this further once you've wiped all that egg off your stupid face.

LMAO!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:31
#116
09 Jan 2015, 10:31#116
 The World Christian Encyclopaedia has estimated the growth of the 12 classic world religions in the decade 1990-2000 (annual change in new adherents and percentage):

Religion

Total

Natural (births)

Conversions

Growth

Christianity

25,210,195

22,708,799

2,501,396

1.36%

Islam

22,588,676

21,723,118

865,558

2.13%

Hinduism

12,533,734

13,194,111

-660,377

1.69%

Buddhism

3,687,527

3,530,918

156,609

1.09%

Sikhism

392,638

363,677

28,961

1.87%

Judaism

124,515

194,962

-70,447

0.91%

Bahá'í

143,491

117,158

26,333

2.28%

Confucianism

44,305

55,739

-11,434

0.73%

Jainism

34,951

74,539

-39,588

0.87%

Shinto

-31,993

8,534

-40,527

-1.09%

Taoism

25,242

25,397

-155

1.00%

Zoroastrianism

58,471

45,391

13,080

2.65%

Global population

78,860,791

78,860,791

-

1.41%

 

• Christianity is the fastest growing religion both in the number of new adherents due to natural growth (births minus deaths) as well as in number of new converts (converts in minus converts out).

• The total growth of Christianity (25,210,195) adds the equivalent of more than the population of Australia (21,555,500) or the U.S. State of Texas (23,904,380) of new Christians to Christianity. Every year.

• The number of new converts to Christianity is more than twice the combined number of new converts to all the other tabulated religions, even if we take out those with negative numbers (2,501,396 vers. 1,090,541).

• The new converts to Christianity (2,501,396) adds the equivalent of more than the population of Latvia (2,268,000) or almost the U.S. State of Nevada (2,565,382) of new Christians to Christianity. Every year.

Empty churches my foot, bulging at the seams like ours! My wife and I had dinner on Wednesday evening with a UCT Professor. She has a brilliant mind and is a full on Christain. What a deligtful evening we had!


Meanwhile back at the ranch the poor atheists at 2% are on the decline. With the destruction of the darwinism hoax and the whole universe from nothing debacle, the DNA nail in the coffin etc etc - we could thankfully be looking at the last generation of these peculiar relics! 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:39
#117
09 Jan 2015, 10:39#117
H ang on, just so I understand these new stats correctly, are you saying that the world's population in 2000 was 78 million people?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:40
#118
09 Jan 2015, 10:40#118
 By the way the playing fileds are not of course level re the stas concerning religious growth. Read this:

The punishment for apostasy from Islam is a controversial topic for Muslims living in the West and for ex-Muslims everywhere. That’s because Islam teaches that apostates are to be killed. We know from historic Islamic documents that during Muhammad's lifetime, and the lifetimes of the next four "Rightly Guided Caliphs", tens of thousands of Muslims left the faith of Islam and thousands were killed. On a large scale the Muslims made war on groups that chose to leave Islam and massacres of apostates occurred. On a smaller scale individual apostates were executed. This death sentence is in effect whether or not the apostasy occurred in or out of the Islamic state.

Many Muslims living in Islamic countries have no problem with the rule of putting apostates to death. The examples of Robert Hussein[1] of Kuwait, Abdul Rahman[2] of Afghanistan, and Bahaa el-Din Ahmed Hussein el-Akkad[3] of Egypt come to mind. These ugly Muslim governments are succored by the West’s finances and blood while they impose an imperial and brutal religion upon its citizens.

On the other hand, Muslims living in the West are embarrassed by this death sentence. The West values the freedoms of thought and speech, Islam does not, and these virtues have never blossomed under Islamic rule. Consequently, when asked about the Islamic law for apostates many Western Muslims do their best to cover up Islam’s edict. Motivated by conviction, or shame, they make up various defenses and say whatever they can to put your mind at ease and make Islam more acceptable to a naïve, gullible, and ignorant Western audience. It is not difficult to make the Quran dance and say what you want it to say. More on these arguments later.

We must examine the Islamic source materials: the Quran, Hadith, and Sira. We must examine not only Muhammad’s words, but his deeds, and the deeds of those who knew, loved, and obeyed him. What exactly was the law during Muhammad's and the Caliph's time? What did the great scholars of Islam teach on this issue?

It is left to the Muslims to define their doctrines. But once defined we should understand them for they affect our lives. Note then that for some 1400 years the defined sentence for apostasy was execution. Few Muslim scholars have ever challenged this definition; the overwhelming majority of Islamic scholars supported it. Later in this article as you read the objections of various modern Muslims arguing against the death sentence bear in mind that it is they who are deviating from the judgment established by the depth and breadth of Islamic jurisprudence.

Of course the best arguments for the death sentence are made by Muslim scholars themselves. Therefore, I will draw from their works, or from people who quote them.


Website is - http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm


I take this opportunity to offer my sincere condolences to those 12 French cartoonists and journalists murdered in Paris.

I warned this would not stop and that the world would in future get more familiar with the ways of Islam. Anyhow if you convert to Islam just know it aint nice getting out!!! 


How are you foolish atheists going re my questions to you. Any progress? A glimmer of hope found. Something to clutch onto perhaps or are you going to bluster on hoping nobody will notice how bankrupt you are. 

 



 



DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
09 Jan 2015, 10:40
#119
09 Jan 2015, 10:40#119

More long winded crap from both CC and Beeno

 

Can either one of you two answer the questions I have posed to both of you which you try exceedingly hard to not get involved with.

 

Why are people who still work on Sundays no longer put to death? Exodus 35:2

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. And of course this one 

Why are non virgins who are getting married, not being dealt with as the bible stipulates?

 Deuteronomy 22:20-21

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Now... Beeno and CC..... the stage is yours 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jan 2015, 11:24
#120
09 Jan 2015, 11:24#120
 Hang on, just so I understand these new stats correctly, are you saying that the world's population in 2000 was 78 million people?
Roitwit look at the heading boet its talking about changes in numbers.I case any oaks missed this biblical quote I give it agaiun as it is worthy of all accpetance:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 


25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural (Lesbains), and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

—Romans 1:18-32


Amen and Amen

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