A great game by Duhan, who should by now be a fixture in the Bok team. Oli Kebble and WP Nel did a nice job in the scrums after they came on and secured a key penalty.
Kinda puts the WC win in a little better perspective.....the fluke wasn’t how England played against us, the fluke was against NZ. They are not that good...particularly among the backs, where they are bog ordinary.
Saf, whatever the caser is... its sttill great to see the Poms being beaten by 3 more South Africans.
I missed the game, but I'm gonna watch it tonight.
The chicken run is going to cost us Dave....but I can see Erasmus’ logic...beat the big ordinary Poms and avoid any games for as long as possible. Hell the Frogs had them beaten but the ref saved them in the last6N.
As for the Pom front row, it’s hard to imagine any international front row playing worse than they did against the Boks. The front row today didn’t look great but they were a step up on Old King Cole and Mako.
Wrong Dave....we played Scotland, England, Tonga and the USA in the pools. In 2019 we played NZ, Namibia, Italy and Canada.....an easier pool except for NZ. But we lost to NZ.
That loss typically dooms a team, but Ireland’s loss Japan corrected that.....and we had an easy set of finals starting with Japan.
Our team is stale, the tactics are stale and as often as he takes “ the blame “ upon himself, Eddie Jones is doing nothing to rectify the situation.
We were simply appalling on Saturday and Italy would have had a very good chance of defeating us !
Mozart
The 2007 pool games were against Samoa, England, Tonga and USA, Scotland was not involved in that pool. The English team was really poor in 2007 - the reason being that the starting team average age was near to 31 years of age and most players were way past their sell-by dates, yet Jake White's team struggled badly against Tonga in the round robin games, as well as Fiji in the semi.
Objectively looking at the two finals in 2007 and 2019 - the 2019 team was better coached than the 2007 team and fact is the SA performance in most aspects of the game was not dominant - eg the English scrum and breakdown plays were seriously better than the Springboks produced
The English team of 2019 was a much better team than the 2007 version. ,
But they lost to NZ....beating Wales and England is a lower hurdle than beating England twice.
Beating that English team twice is no achievement at all - the 2007 English team was rubbish in capital letters.
Beating that English team twice is no achievement at all - the 2007 English team was rubbish in capital letters.
Nonsense in the 2007 Six Nations England won 3 and lost 2. In 2019 England won 3, drew 1 and lost 1. The team was at about the same level of competitiveness. And taking out Australia and France in the lead up to the finals, they were on a positive trend.
Most importantly they pitched up in the finals....something they clearly didn’t do in 2019 where they played their final against NZ.
Correct Mozzie.I have never rated this pommie outfit...they ducked and dived by not facing the All Blacks and then produced one performance against the weakest All Blacks World Cup team I have seen.
The Springboks demolished a weak England side 36-0 in their first game of RWC2007. From then on, all the way up to the final (where they played the same weak England team) they didn't play a single rugby nation that had ever beaten them in their entire history up until that point.
Not sure how it gets any easier than that. Can't think of a rugby, football or cricket WC where any team got such an easy run to the final.
We were abysmal in 2007 but scraped our way to the Final.
How....why? And now the Wallies who we beat only because Louw gave us the ball back in time for Pollard to put things over the top.....barely scrape past a poor Irish team, with 14 men on the park for virtually the whole game.
Lose to the ABs, beat the tiny Nips, scrape by the abysmal Wallies and beat a team that never came to play.
At least in 2007 we had a proper contest against the defending champions.
Mozart is trying to hide behind nothing in this case, The English Tight 5 n 2007 kept the Springboks under pressure - the loose forwards and wings of the Springboks vanish from sight but the English gave away two many penalties - five of which were converted/
There could never be a comparison between the two finals - the 2007 final was rather a sloppy affair with the Springbok team be team being non-competitive at breakdowns and some serious questions about ball skills as well. The 2019 was a masterclass performance - nearly perfect execution in all components of the game - coached by the worldwide recognized best rugby coach in the world.
By the way - there was a Tri-Nations test in 2007 between the All Blacks and the Springboks and Mozart keeps dead quiet about the result, The AB's beat the Springboks 33-6 in that game. If the 2007 Springboks came up against the AB's at any stage during the WC - they probably would have lost by the same margin,
The other problem that Mozart keeps forgetting is that the loss against the AB's in 2019 was in a major way influenced by the tackle missed by Mostert - the result being that Mostert were dropped from the starting line-up of the Springboks - since that miss was a repeat of similar misses earlier in 2019. According to Mozart that replacement of De Jager by Mostert was what saved the Springboks from losing against the English - yet Mozart never made a single really effective tackle that influenced the outcome in that game.
Dummkopf Saffex ....from 2015 till 2018 the number of games against All Blacks
France 6
Ireland 3
Wales 4
Aussie 12
Boks 8
England ...............................1
Eddie Jones been saying England are going to be best team in the world ..all just hype.
No it wasn’t:
NZ was a tougher pool game....but we lost.
Fiji way tougher than Japan who were dominated physically
Argentina after their win over France in the Bronze final....tougher than the Wallies who got slaughtered in the bronze final.
England 2007....more match winners than England 2019, starting with Wilkinson. And winners over France and Oz. Clearly more focused.......a bigger challenge
I believe in a WC you beat who is in front of you. We did that both times and were worthy champions. But Mike, Rooipeepie and Dave went on for years about how we weren’t worthy champions. And now after an easier route in 2019, we supposedly are unbeatable....despite being beaten
No it wasn’t:
NZ was a tougher pool game....but we lost.
Fiji way tougher than Japan who were dominated physically
Argentina after their win over France in the Bronze final....tougher than the Wallies who got slaughtered in the bronze final.
England 2007....more match winners than England 2019, starting with Wilkinson. And winners over France and Oz. Clearly more focused.......a bigger challenge
I believe in a WC you beat who is in front of you. We did that both times and were worthy champions. But Mike, Rooipeepie and Dave went on for years about how we weren’t worthy champions. And now after an easier route in 2019, we supposedly are unbeatable....despite being beaten
You keep mentioning NZ. It matters little if NZ was highly ranked when we lost to them. As for the Bargies, check your data, after wins over France, Wales and Scotland the Bargies reached 3rd place rankings. It matters little what they ranked before the WC. It matters how they played in the WC best represented by the rankings they emerged with:
So in 2007 our opponents were ranked: 4+3+9=16
In 2019 our opponents were ranked 3+4+8=15
Practically the same. But the dangerous backs of Fiji and the determination of the 2007 finalists vs the 2019 finalists says Jake’s team got the harder examination.
Don’t get confused, stick with moz.
Case closed .....and archived.
So you don’t judge the strength of teams based on how they play in the WC......you judge them based on their rating before the WC. Okay fine South Africa were 4th in 2007 and 5th in 2019. Advantage Jake.
Dave you are such easy pickings.....game, set and match.
You would only do that because you don’t know how your opponents will fare in the WC. So you use a flawed ranking system to set up ex ante expectations. Just like you use earnings expectations to price a stock.
But once you have the results you judge basis actual results not expectations. Which is why at the end of the WC you have new rankings reflecting actual performance in the only competition that involves all teams.
The sides that lost to South Africa don’t think they lost to the fifth ranked team, they think they lost to the world champs and number one rated team. By the same logic when we beat Argentina in 2007 we beat the third best team, not the 6th ranked team.
Results always trump expectations. I’m glad you set the stage so I could make this all clear and dispatch all the bs about our 2007 win once and for all.
Dave, you're arguing with a rugby noob who thinks that the 2 time SA Player of the Year, RWC Player of the Tournament, nominee for player of the decade and World Rugby Player of the Year is a weak player.
Have a think about that.
