16 Sept 2014, 17:06#2
So brave they still expect England to fund them if they vote for " independence " ?
And happy to try and ally themselves to the dying swan that is the EU.
Yes, very brave
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Sept 2014, 17:21#3
Well if you are a unique people and members of a collective called the EU....why do you have to be members of another collective called Great Britain. It makes no sense. Free people in a Common Market.
16 Sept 2014, 18:44#4
Ask the EU why they have to reapply
Oh and there is nothing fee about the EU...
And the Common Market and the EU are two separate entities
AJArthur John
Pro1,748 posts
AJArthur JohnPro1,748 posts
16 Sept 2014, 19:42#5
With the change in population within Scotland they would be wise to rethink the application to join the EU and rather go for broke and join the Arab League.
Sure they would at least then win a game or two.
Guess what the best thing to come out of Scotland is...........Yes you are right.
AN EMPTY PLANE.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Sept 2014, 20:09#6
I seem to remember the Uk got more out of the EU than they put in in the last few years (financially). Thatcher negotiated a good deal.
16 Sept 2014, 22:23#7
I think you will find that is not true.....go and check the figures !!!!!
We actually contribute £53 million PER DAY to the EU budget.
This tiny Isle.
Our rebate is what ? That is what you are talking about.....get back to me
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2014, 00:26#8
Lagavullin is the best thing to come out of Scotland. And I think you will find Scottish tourism is quite healthy.
This is also a good deal for the Poms, because without the liberal Scottish vote, they will get a nice sensible Conservative decade.
Freedom!
17 Sept 2014, 00:30#9
You see, that really does show why people like Mozart shouldn't get involved in this sort of discussion !
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2014, 00:34#10
I started this discussion. The Scots will be fine without you Poms....better. And you will learn to live with your diminishing Britain. Hell you have had lots of practice.
RORooinek
Captain18,117 posts
RORooinekCaptain18,117 posts
17 Sept 2014, 00:42#11
Exactly becs. The pompous old fool probably doesn't even know that the Scottish whisky makers are almost on their knees begging for a No vote.
LMAO!
17 Sept 2014, 01:06#12
No Mozart, I asked you to talk to me about the whole British thing really. You chose to sing Scotland the Brave !
We won't have a Britain really if the Union breaks away and I don't really worry in one sense, as I am English first and last. But it is in an Historical sense that is saddens me, as does the break up of the Union. And the terrible toll it will have taken on the Scottish public unity and the relationship with the rest of Britain. That will be pretty horrendous regardless of the outcome.
As for your comments regarding the English, don't be so sure and the comments regarding Scotland aren't correct either....companies have threatened to leave in their dozens if Scotland gain independence and we personally know some that are readying to leave if that is the case. The banks have already put things in order to jump ship to London.
If they will be better off, why do they want us to pay for their NHS ? Why will we have to pay for Schools ? Universities ? Pensions ? Benefits ? Etc etc ?
You need to do your homework, Mozart !!
17 Sept 2014, 01:52#14
That means it's a Yes then .....ha ha ha !
We shall see, Saffex
Either way, a can of worms has been opened
17 Sept 2014, 01:55#16
Of dear lord......Mozart has drunk the Loch dry !!
17 Sept 2014, 02:35#18
Well. I don't have time to go into everything now, Mozart...but Diageo isn't an English Company...it was a merger of Guinness and Grand Met !!
It is British !
17 Sept 2014, 02:42#19
Moz,
I haven't been following too closely but m y understanding was that the English position would be to sever economic ties, certainly the currency. Also - how could Scotland afford the sudden expense of the massive social welfare programs their people are used to , national defence, counter intelligence, internal security, infrastructure, education etc?
17 Sept 2014, 02:52#20
Oimatey.....they expect us to pay for it ! They want Devo Max....look it up. We will have to pay for most of what you have mentioned. That has angered the English MP's, rightly so, and the Welsh, who say they want more money now too.
Can of worms, as I said ...
Also, they will have no Currency and they will have to apply to join the EU and sign up to the Schengen Agreement. I know someone that works for the Euro Parliament. It might take five years if they are accepted. And the EU is crumbling....rightly so.
FOForeverArizona
Club Pro580 posts
FOForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
17 Sept 2014, 02:55#21
Honestly I think Scotland will be very stupid to through with this thing.On both sides there is much to loose.Ultimately it is money.Those with the power and money will leave.The banks and energy companies are already warning voters not to vote yes.Politics know nothing of business.This is going to end badly for Scotland.I am far removed from the whole issue as I am neither British nor Scottish but hell it doesnt take much to see that this could be a disaster.
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
17 Sept 2014, 03:02#22
They'll have to drop the Great bit, which is pompous anyway . Little Britain will do .
FOForeverArizona
Club Pro580 posts
FOForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
17 Sept 2014, 03:06#23
Thats funny...Little Britian,its scary how much of Britian is actually like Little Britian.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2014, 03:08#24
Matey my guess is English exports to Scotland are larger than the reverse....so cutting ties would be non productive. The big issue is dealing with the debt. The currency situation can be solved...as the Economist says:
"The best solution is a new currency and a new central bank. It is actually a very common step 28 new Central Banks have been set up in the past 25 years."
17 Sept 2014, 04:08#25
Great Britain was the merging of the two Kingdoms of England and Scotland. When the Scots came and asked to join with England as they were broke and needed fiscal help. It happened a long time ago, the term would seem perfectly normal then, two Kingdoms merging. It was important. Put yourself in the situation if you can for a moment. You see, it made perfect sense and was designed to send a message to the other countries. A don't mess with us even though we are tiny kind of attitude. You don't understand or you choose not to. One of those two options.
The Economist is not always right......and you do realised that this could force an Election here if they vote for a Independence ? Cameron could have to go. At this rate, Labour will be in by Christmas !
FOForeverArizona
Club Pro580 posts
FOForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
17 Sept 2014, 04:13#26
I thoguht you dont follow politics becs??
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2014, 04:40#27
The marriage of James IV and Margaret Tudor in 1503 had been intended to cement a ‘treaty of perpetual peace’. It failed to achieve that but its unintended consequence was that, when the Tudor dynasty became extinct in 1603, in James VI there was a handy solution to a number of England’s problems.
That's more like the reason ...a common Monarch. I have a 1503 tapestry commemorating the marriage of James IV to Mary Tudor, I wonder if it's value increases or decreases with separation. That could sway my preferences...hahaha.
For the rest I could care less, but my wife is a Scot and she feels quite strongly....that it's time to " be a nation once again" . But oops that's an Irish song. Seems not everybody wants to be a part of Great Britain.
17 Sept 2014, 12:51#28
FA, of course I follow Politics...what gave you the impression that I don't ?
I was an Historian......we deal a lot in Politics !!!
Ah, so now the skewed view of Britain is coming out, Mozart ! I see it all
You forgot to point out that the Stuart's were actually some of the most useless of all our Monarch's...and that's going some.....
And Great Britain hasn't been around for very long....and at the behest of...who was it ? Oh yes, the Scots ! Oh yes, and who wants Devo Max ? Oh yes, the Scots !
Ask the English, Welsh and N.Irish and we get rid of them, without their money and without seats in the Parliament they so detest, at the drop of a hat.
And it isn't largely Scots voting.....look at the Stats. It is Eastern European's. Some have only been in the country a few months and can go home if It all goes belly up.
As I keep saying, lots more to this debate than a pathetic hatred of the English.
Oh and the Scots are Irish, which is why they have that song Long stor, but they all made way from Egypt, via Europe and settled in Ireland. Some then moved on to Scotland. Hence the hatred.....
17 Sept 2014, 16:10#30
The countries weren't unified officially until 1707.....tell me when James was on the Throne ?
He brought disaster to this country, as you should well know ! My goodness me.
There is disaster brewing once more, in Scotland and England, because of this. Nothing to do with stupid world standing. I could not care a jot about that. I am talking about what happens to my country at home. You see, you really don't get it at all.
17 Sept 2014, 19:48#32
No concept whatsoever of any ramifications, either fiscal or social.
I just hope your SA brethren still have their passports up to date so they can jump ship from theses Isles and scurry home when it all goes belly up
Because it very easily could, either way.
Mr S is usually a calm and considered individual, in my experience...except when we discuss Rugby.....He knows which way he thinks things will go.As I said, the SNP have opened up such blind hatred that, either way, this is going to unleash trouble for us all.
DBDbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DBDbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
17 Sept 2014, 19:57#33
Boy, this is going to piss off a lot of idiots with Union Jack tatoos when tbings go wrong at the ballot!
Seriously though, I can understand the Irish independence, but from an outsider's perspective the freedom thing sounds a bit silly. Why split up 2 tiny little islands even more? What is the majority they need to split?
17 Sept 2014, 20:55#35
It's actually the Union Flag. It was only ever called the Jack when flown at sea
I prefer the George Cross. Be glad to have that flown everywhere instead !
Is Free Willy next, Mozart ? I do hope so. He deserved it more.
17 Sept 2014, 20:55#36
It's actually the Union Flag. It was only ever called the Jack when flown at sea
I prefer the George Cross. Be glad to have that flown everywhere instead !
Is Free Willy next, Mozart ? I do hope so. He deserved it more.
17 Sept 2014, 23:34#38
Ah well....go and have a look at the History of it all.Very interesting
They can keep the flags, if they so choose. Up to them !
We have signed Trident over to Scotland, so I believe.Part of Devo Max.
18 Sept 2014, 00:58#40
They don't like to think that it might be the case, Awesome1......
That's what I love about History
