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FORUM / RUGBY /  So let's assess the Boks.

So let's assess the Boks.

Started by Mozart24 REPLIES492 VIEWS· 08 Aug 2015, 21:21
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2015, 21:21
#1
08 Aug 2015, 21:21#1

Willie 7....it's become fashionable to dump on Willie. But he was our main weapon and gained over a 100 metres.

 

Kriel 5.....a quiet afternoon. He was not comfortable on the wing. When Imhoff cut through the middle Kriel should have been tracking him. We are asking too much of this kid....leave him at 13.

 

 

JDV 6 ....he has fine stats, but it's all a little unconvincing. He has to move closer to the action.

 

Allende 5.....another 57% tackling day, what can one say that hasn't been said before. A strong fellow, hard to put away, but little nous or defence.

 

Habana 6 ....professional, commmitted....looking for scraps.

 

Pollard 4.....good goal kicking, forceful with ball in hand....but he looks like he is playing under massive pressure.

 

 

Pienaar 6....did a lot of tidy things, but nothing massive.

 

Koch 0 ....sad, he looks like a nice kid but test tighthead play is a bridge too far.

 

Bismarck 5....tried hard, but mostly physically dominated

 

Beast  4.....a bad day at the office and not as influential in the loose.

 

Etzebeth 4....relegated to a donkey role with all the ball flowing to Lomp. He only had one ball called to him in lineouts, but stole a Bargie throw. Missed a key tackle on the Bargie 9.

 

Lomp 6.....lethargic on the first Bargie try, but cleared the lineouts well. Made sure his locking partner is marginalized two tests in a row. Nice job on the try.

 

Brussouw 5 ...a half steal, but so much less impressive than Poclock was earlier.

 

Coetzee 3....totally dominated as he tends to be against power packs when energy is not enough. Missed 2 out of 5 tackles and lost the ball twice.

 

Schalk 7 ....a lone ranger pretty much. Tackled well, secured the ball and took 4 lineouts. Our back of the lineout jumping was one of the few bright spots.

 

Marcel vd M 4....penalized, unable to put pressure on the much weaker Bargie sub.

 

Strauss 6....good energetic stuff from Strauss.

 

Nyakane 5 ....scrummed the best of our 4 props.

 

Steph 2....got beaten at a lineout and turned over the ball twice. A hard ask but the answer was no.

 

Reinach 6 ....added some energy. This is his best role....an attacker off the bench when we are behind. Did lose the ball once.

 

Lambie 4....but only because he looked the part with the 100km feigned gaze off the bench. Missed his only tackle attempt. Predictably missed a conversion under pressure.

 

 

Mvovo 5....had a chance to score but never went low for the corner. Added some spark.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Aug 2015, 21:40
#2
08 Aug 2015, 21:40#2
 This is a joke - must be.  Lets look at a few of the ratings given above.
Jean de Villiers was slow and did not do anything to deserve more than 5
 Pienaar was atrocious and his last two bygger-ups was par for the course - 4 at best.
How many handling errors are Burger allowed to make?  He was standing around in the backline and did his utmost to lose ball possession - 4/10
What is a half Steal?  He was not seen much so he was also a 4/10
How about Du Toit being a 2/10 - he was in  a bad situation wns he did not lose a line-out - so he gets 4/10
Just think the bloke that was really problematic gets 7/10 - jokes abound as per normal 
   


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2015, 21:45
#3
08 Aug 2015, 21:45#3
Cde Villiers0/000/4/8471110 5/00/020/0Cde Allende0/000/3/11110300 4/30/000/0
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:08
#4
08 Aug 2015, 22:08#4
I don't even know how to assess the game. It was just a sad comedy of errors from start to finish. No structure, no direction, amateur alley and bumper cars all the way. Funny you made the comparison to Jake's 49-0 loss. I was thinking during the game that this must be the worst Bok performance since that one.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:16
#5
08 Aug 2015, 22:16#5
Agreed.....next week will tell us a lot about the chara cter of the team.....it's going to be brutal. Lucky the tighthead who doesn't get chosen for that game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:20
#6
08 Aug 2015, 22:20#6
 DE Villiers had one good run - but since his pace deserted him he was caught short of the tryline.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:23
#7
08 Aug 2015, 22:23#7
 Why speak of Jean? Why not speak of Damian's completely flaccid upper body strength and inability to cope at 12. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:28
#8
08 Aug 2015, 22:28#8
Jean should have passed and Habana would likely have scored. Damian again passed too early close to the tryline and sold his wing to three defenders without engaging a single one. As I said, comedy of errors all the way .
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
08 Aug 2015, 22:44
#9
08 Aug 2015, 22:44#9
Overall Team Performance- 1.5/10. Looked like a team introduced to each other 5 minutes before the match. Clearly not much of a game plan.
15 Willie le Roux-  5.5/10
Poor Game but he also did not get much quality ball. His aimless kicking from the back setup at least one of the Argentinian tries. He is often our only chance of something happening. He did get one good try. 
14 Jesse Kriel- 4.5/10
Does not look like a wing, but he did get involved in setting up the LeRoux try. Needs to be back to 13. 


13 Jean de Villiers  4.5/10
One decent run- otherwise destroyed our new budding centre combination. At this stage it is looking like he should have retired 
12 Damian de Allende- 3/10
Crashball play only- although Pollard was hogging allot of the ball. Their seems to be little combination between Delande and Pollard. I am not sure how he end up as a flank. 

11 Bryan Habana-5/10
Lost his pace. The 2007 Habana version is long gone. He did score a decent try but Leroux setup a pass that anyone could have caught. Some decent chases competing in the air.

10 Handre Pollard-2.5/10
At times he is looking like flank playing at flyhalf that wants to run at the advantage line. He is too willing to take contact and get stuck in rucks instead of being the general that marshall's his backline. 
He must have rattled the team with his kick offs and penalty kicks- as their scrum possession was non existent. 


9 Ruan Pienaar- 4/10
Average at best

8 Schalk Burger- 6/10 The lone ranger

7 Marcell Coetzee- 2/10
Very average. Everyone knows he never passes- and just looks to crash ball.

6 Heinrich Brüssow- 4/10
One of the few Boks to have any effect at the breakdown

5 Lodewyk de Jager-  5.5/10
An average player- probably playing the best he can. 


4 Eben Etzebeth-  2/10
Was he on the pitch? Or his alter ego Elizabeth.
3 Vincent Koch-  0/10
Could have destroyed his Bok career in half a test. 
2 Bismarck du Plessis- 3/10
Little impact. Even the mojo less Adrian Strauss looked better.
1 Tendai Mtawarira-  1/10It is unclear how much of the scrumming problem is him. I would prefer to start with Nykane- who at least contributes outside of the scrum. The last scrum was probably the only time the bok scrum looked dominant.

Replacements:

16 Adriaan Strauss - 3.5/10
He done very little- but an improvement on his past 2 useless performances
17 Trevor Nyakane -4.5/10
We need to try him as a starting Loosehead. 
18 Marcel van der Merwe -  3.5/10
Scrum improved when he came on, but he did little else.
19 Pieter-Steph du Toit - 2/10
Pathetic. He cant hold onto possession while getting tackled. A clumsy and isolated performance
20 Siya Kolisi -1.5 /10
Useless. One carry and little more.
21 Cobus Reinach-4.5/10Did seem to have more effect than Pienaar.


22 Pat Lambie -4.5 /10The backline was looking better with Lambie at 10, than Pollard.

23 Lwazi Mvovo- 5/10/ 
Showed that having a specialist winger is a better option than shifting Kriel all over the show- to accomodata a hasbeen in Devilliers. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Aug 2015, 23:06
#10
08 Aug 2015, 23:06#10
Damian had no effect in carries. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Aug 2015, 23:19
#11
08 Aug 2015, 23:19#11
Today is mostly about eliminating players from the potential match 23 thinking.  I would say Koch and Stephanie should be sent back to their provinces. Serious questions have to be raised about Allende, Marcel, Coetzee and unfortunately Brussouw. These are popular players, but they cracked today under pressure. And Lambie should be replaced by Frans and Morne. Its so obvious.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
09 Aug 2015, 02:46
#12
09 Aug 2015, 02:46#12
 Schalk was the worst player on the pitch. If I see him do another knee slide when receiving the ball I'm going to lose it and he needs to learn when to and not to offload. Also could do with learning how to tackle legally.
Lood was immense, he needs to kick it up now.
Moz you've been asking 'serious' questions of De Allende and Coetzee before you ever saw them play.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Aug 2015, 03:35
#13
09 Aug 2015, 03:35#13
Guilty as charged.  
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Aug 2015, 08:41
#14
09 Aug 2015, 08:41#14
We have to be careful of just writing players off now. Schalk was immense against Aus and NZ. Those knee slides yesterday were symptomatic of the whole team being off. The timing of passes, runs, nothing gelled. Look at the forward pass Pollard threw to Etzebeth - they simply overran their mark, it was chaos.

It also points to how devoid we are of attacking ideas. The ball always goes to a forward to bash it up, while the Argentinian backs attacked the spaces and ran two layers of attack, one engaging the first line of defence and another lying slightly deeper to exploit the inevitable gaps. They looked like a well coached side. The Boks looked like they'd been on the beach all week.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Aug 2015, 08:48
#15
09 Aug 2015, 08:48#15
The Boks lost the physical battle upfront and there were few backs who could survive the onslaught. Our midfield was completely unbalanced and our flub bench was destroyed. This was exactly like the loss to Scotland in 2010. The Boks arrogantly picked a team to run them ragged.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2015, 09:33
#16
09 Aug 2015, 09:33#16
 DF
The problem started in the forwards and the backline was disjointed as well.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Aug 2015, 09:49
#17
09 Aug 2015, 09:49#17
 Desert Fox: it should been a relatively easy win for the Boks, they were playing at home against a team that is far below them in the rankings. The bok forwards should have done better, the backs showed promise in attack in recent games but the defence was badly exposed. Willie is a 50/50 passer & a 50/50 performer. He needs coaching.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Aug 2015, 10:32
#18
09 Aug 2015, 10:32#18
 
Are these your player ratings, Moffie?

Thought so ... delusional as usual.

Clueless fool .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2015, 10:54
#19
09 Aug 2015, 10:54#19
 Mozart's ratings were made according to whether he likes or dislikes a player.  SB's ratings were somewhat nearer r\the mark - but also based on personal likes and dislikes (eg Du Toit - who went of his radar because he is leaving the Sharks). 
The ratings in news 24 is much more realistic.  Mine is too.  But then we cannot rely on Mozart's pathetic comments.  Fransie Steyn has done squat in any game he played in since his return from France - yet he is Mozart's dream player.   When asked on what that is based - the answer is a  thing about Fransie frightening the wits out of every opposing player and a personal tirade against anybody who dare to question his statements.  
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2015, 12:52
#20
09 Aug 2015, 12:52#20
 The assessments of both Mozart and SB is a joke in bad taste - so I have a look at what they came up compared to the stats used by Test Rugby.
So lets look at what the three gives to each player:-
                       Mozart     Sharkbok   Test Rugby Le Roux                 7             5,5             310Kriel                      5             4,5             120De Villiers              6             4,5               90De Allende             5               3              210Habana                 6               5              240Pollard                  4             2,5             200Pienaar                 6               4                 5Burger                  7                6             160Coetzee                3               2              100Brussow                5               4               75De Jager               6               5,5            370Etzebeth               4                2              60Koch                    0                0             -35Du Plessis              5               3              130Mtawarira              4               1                 0
Stats is obviously not the only thing that counts in matches - but it does give an indication about the general trend in the display of players.  In general the situation as to Test Rugby is as follows:-
Below 100     - Very poor101 - 150     -  Poor151 - 200     -  Average201 - 250     -  Above average251 - 300     -  GoodAbove 301    -  Very good
So lets look at the above and especially the experienced players.   Of those (Le Roux, Habana, De Villiers, Pienaar, Burger, Coetzee, Brussow, Etzebeth, Du Plessis and Mtawarira)  the rating is as follows:-
Very poor    -   De Villiers, Pienaar, Coetzee, Brussow, Etzebeth, Du Plessis. MtawariraAverage      -   BurgerAbove Average - Le Roux, Habana
The majority of failures were experienced players.  Of the younger players the only  real failures were Kriel and Koch - with Kriel being poor and Koch atrocious/very poor.      The above clearly illustrate why the story about Experience only is misleading and is in fact a disaster when performance is not taken into account.  Of the 10 experienced players 7 was very poor and only three reasonably satisfactory.  Of the 5 inexperienced players - three was acceptable - the other two failed.  
There is some excuses for some of the players, but the poor performance by others are  inexcusable:-
*   Kriel played on the wing - where he should not have been in the first place*   Coetzee was never himself - his injury in the previous game was obviously not healed and it showed during the match*   For near to 20% of the game De Allende had to play at loosie.
What was clear that of the whole team, 9 players were very poor and poor and only 5 was average or above average - with only one player really good.  And the idiots on this site wants to get rid of the good player - what a farce.  

  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Aug 2015, 14:32
#21
09 Aug 2015, 14:32#21
I have never seen  a Bok team play a good game when they are dominated at scrum time. Yesterday our pack was thrashed. In the scrums where the rot started and at the breakdown. The backs had the unusual  (for a Bok backline) experience of playing behind a dominated pack. It rattled them. There is no other pack at the RWC that could do that to any Bok pack. This could turn out to be the best lesson the team could have gotten and eliminate all complacency.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Aug 2015, 16:02
#22
09 Aug 2015, 16:02#22
 Why were we dominated at the breakdown?  There was no ball protection and the recovery of breakdown balls was atrocious as well.   Burger did squat in both of these activities and Brussow and Coetzee were absent from the game as well.  Burger's record in that respect is not good enough - so he would not contribute to that aspect of the game in any event.
Problem si that Meyer has lost Vermeulen - a good recoverer of breakdown balls - but he also picked a player like Alberts who is totally incapable of that aspect of the game and Brussow was supposed to do something - but he failed.   Bismarck who showed something about that aspect fo the game - went AWOL as well yesterday.
The scrumming by both props were disastrously poor - as it was last year against Argentina as well.              
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 11:54
#23
10 Aug 2015, 11:54#23

What a load of crap those scores are......absolute joke. For a start Schalk was useless, the best SA forward on display was Lood by a country mile. So Schalk gets a 4 and Lood a 7.


Marcel v/d Merwe got the better of the Bargie loosehead before he was subbed and then dominated the Bargie replacement loosehead thereafter - FACT. What Marcel did do was confirm you know stuff all about prop play and that you were totally and utterly wrong about him - he walks a 7

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Aug 2015, 12:17
#24
10 Aug 2015, 12:17#24
 Dave
Both DF and Mozart is in a campaign to get rid of De Jager and Etzebeth - the latter not so clearly, but by implication.  The blame De Jager for the nondescript performance on Saturday by Etzebeth.  
The are propagating the selection of Flippie and Matfield as locks.   They think that would turn the whole performance around.   The also think Alberts should be the no 7 loosie, because he is a "power player".   Performance count for nothing in their calculation.  never mind Alberts had only 3 games since June 2014 and in all three games he was piss poor.
Their campaign against De Allende has reached crescendo level.  They shout and scream about it as if their lives depends on it.    All because they want Fransie at 12.  It is incredible what they would not do to get that one supported.
There norm is the older the better.  They also are in  relentless campaign to support Meyer - nothing is wrong with him.  His decisions about selections are the only problem - he listens too much to public opinion and should select the older reputation  players and everything would be fine.      
      
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Aug 2015, 12:33
#25
10 Aug 2015, 12:33#25

Moz is on par with Meyer when it comes to rugby......that idiot Fox is even worse.


The old Meyer supporters are hurting


4 wins in the last 12 tests against the major test nations and these fools are still hanging onto useless Meyer........clueless as they come.


Their support for Meyer and hasbeens like Jean, Morne, Pienaar, Matfield, Louw and Alberts serves only to discredit their rugby observations more and more......they cant begin to find merit in a 33% win record over the past 18 months......but they are stupid enough to give it a try

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