So you're the coach . . .

You should be thinking about the starting XV and bench that will defend the Webb-Ellis trophy in 2023.

You should be considering the age of players and the likelihood of them lasting until the RWC. If it was me I'd be discounting 30 and older . . . so out of my thinking go Beast, Duane, Willie, Flo, and Fats.

Those are the only players I'd consider replacing at this stage. The rest of the players in your match 23 are the magnificent warriors who won the last one and gave the country such a massive boost. You'd have to have the cranial capacity of a ping pong ball or the rugby acumen of Omlet to even consider going into the next RWC final without as many of those players as are still one their feet in 2023.

So you need a loosehead prop, a number 8, a fullback, a bench flanker and a bench utility back.

Who would yours be if you were picking your first Springbok squad (assuming no limits on foreigners which seems inevitable now)? Mine . . .

1. Ox Nche

8. Dan du Preez

15. Damian Willemse

20. Jean-Luc du Preez

23. Curwin Bosch

Kitshoff would take over from Beast and I'd cash in a free quota card and bring in any one of the young promising black looseheads. On the other side of the scrum I'd be choosing between Malherbe and Koch for the #18 jersey with Nyakane my long term hope for the #3 jersey.

I know I'm in a minority when it comes to the Du Preez twins. I make no apologies for selecting them both but go ahead and add your own choices. Note that I'd be thinking Pieter-Steph back at lock in the longer term.

I prefer Damian Willemse at flyhalf but would back him to shine at fullback as well. It's not a problem area for us and there are any number of talented youngsters who could prove himself in the next 4 years . . . Tyrone Green, Aphelele Fassi and Curwin Bosch to name a few.

As for including Bosch as my utility back, sure he has a weak defence but that can be inproved. He offers so much else it's worth giving him a shot. Also, if you're doing a like for like replacement for Frans Steyn then Bosch gives you similar versatility and similar distance with the boot. Frans and Curwin are two of the sweetest strikers of the ball out of hand that I've ever seen . . . certainly since Derrick Hougaard.

You forget about the RWC and let the natural progression play out. You don't just kick out incumbents for what's gonna happen in 4 years. You keep on playing your best team and constantly blood new prospects to constantly evolve the team...we should always play our very best team. Success breeds more success.

It's difficult to let go of tried and tested heroes, but progression should be a natural process.  Deciding on a cut off age is almost just as bad as keeping players past their sell by.

Having said all that, we should be looking at replacing the over 30's, but it doesn't have to be in the next test match already.

Focus on 2020.....change only what needs immediate changing/replacement. And get a backline coach, crashball wont get that lucky again.

I have made some corrections to Saffex current squad

I have removed players that are either not proven-  or have already proven they do not have the ability for international test rugby.  I have also removed some injury-prone players, 

Fullbacks: Willemse / Gelant / Fassi 

Gelant will be better as an outside centre- where he can use his passing and playmaking ability. He is probably a bit short of outright pace for an outside back

Wings: Kolbe / Nkosi / Duhan vd Merwe / Senatla / Tambwe / Maxwane / Pietersen / Green 

Too early for many of these players to be mentioned as potential Boks. Most players need to stand out at a lower level of senior rugby like Pro14 or SuperRugby. 

Senatala is not a 15 man player. Maybe Rassie could teach him - but at this stage, he needs space- and a total liability on defence.  

Centres: de Allende / Kriel / Serfontein Janse v Rensburg / Am / Esterhuizen/ Vorster / Odendaal

Esterhuizen is a cart-horse. Strong as an ox, but also as smart as an ox. Janse does not have the conditioning or basic passing skills. 

Flyhalves: Pollard / Willemse / Bosch

Willemse still needs to show he can control big match games and is not just a skilful player. He may be more suited to centre, or even fullback. 

Scrumhalves: Faf / Jantjies / Reinach / Papier

Reinach will be too old, and his strongest asset is pace, which will be gone. 

Props: Kitshoff / Wilco Louw / Thomas du Toit / Pierre Schoeman/ Malherbe / Sadie / Kebble

Not sure about Kebble outside of the scrum. He did show potential, but is he fit enough- as with the case of Wilco Louw. Thomas DuToit is a very good loosehead, as he is more of a mobile player than a power player. 

Hookers: Marx / Dweba / Ox Nche (yes at hooker) / Mbonambi

Dweba looks like a good prospect- like a young Schalk Britz. Can he scrum in big matches. Ox Ox Nche would need to be able to throw to be considered at 2. 

Locks: Etzebeth / PSDT/ RG Snyman/ Lood / Jason Jenkins/ JD Schickerling / Lourens Erasmus

Snickering is a Currie Cup pretender. PSDT will continue to the rest of his career at number 7. His conditioning and strategy are that of a loosie. Ezetbeth has 85 caps, and he is 28 years old. If he gets 10 caps a year- he would be on 125 caps, which is 2 less than Victor Matfield.

 Not sure how much longer he will hold up for. 

I agree with most of your eliminations from the list....and would also eliminate Stepfontein, Bosch who is too fragile to play Bok 10.....15 is his slot, Papier, Thomas du Toit as a tighthead, Sadie and Brink. And I have grave doubts about the Deysel twins. I do like Jaco Coetzee though and Esterhozen is no worse than Dud Allende.

I think there are other players that Erasmus and co would look at over the next two years that would come through the ranks.   Erasmus will start looking at some players and would start introducing them to give them playing time even from next year,  Some players at present not yet Springboks playing for foreign clubs may be introduced as early as July 2020 to prevent them from being playing for foreign teams in future,

My impression is that Erasmus and co will develop and refine their game plan further over the next three years  and that selection will depend largely on how players fit into that game plan.  There are already players that will be out of contention because of that requirement, eg Esterhuizen and Bosch.                 

I don't rate Kermit.

His ability is too niche. Out of hand kicking and the odd break from 15. 

Willemse is his superior as well as having more utility.

Tyrone Green, would be my pick. Again, because heart and xfactor. Guy tackles like a man possessed and looks for work everywhere.

His weak point is game management, but luckily that's something that can be taught/learned.

And it' s a shame because Combrink is better than all of them. The most Joubert-like since Joubert. Mistake free, bags of utility and very desrving.

I have a different approach on the issue of future players coming through.   In the main I dealt with extensively with the issue of management of rugby under another thread and showed up what was wrong when Meyer and Coetzee were the coaches.

Unlike under those two coaches there is a clear path for new players to come through and become the future real and not hyped-up greats in Springbok rugby.   In the new era under Erasmus the players will be identified and will be properly coached  so as to ensure that they develop into top players - that was not the case under either Meyer or Coetzee,    Under those two coaches the system broke down due to the fact that they ignore player development in the professional era - so there was nothing really new coming through,

To my mind there are three factors important in player development, namely -

*   physical ability;

*   ball sense and ball skills present in some players and not in others: and

*   mentality,  inclusive of work ethic and self-believe to reach their professional goals

If properly identified and coached the real players will come through in future,   That is why I do not look specifically at what players are going to come through in future - Green may well be one of those.   

I think there is ultimately another problem as well and that us how players develop and fit into the development of a game plan in future,   It already became clear that players like Esterhuizen and Bosch fell of the bus already, 

I was amazed about one aspect very noticeable in the WC and also in Dubai last week,   The players did better than they ever did before,    That comes from a combination of the three factors I listed and the development of those three factors in players,    What I have seen over the past four months showed a massive improvement in rugby performances gave me further hope for the development of rugby in SA,  

I wish something similar could be done for SA  Cricket, where I lost hope totally.   It seems as if none of the top players have any self-believe left         .      

Another tome kills the thread.

Is that Beeno in the red shirt above ? Or Beeno’s kid ? Because that would be a perfect transference of genetic traits from one generation to the next. Because you know DNA, universe....bla bla bla

Mozart

"Another tome kills the thread."

The truth hurts does it not?   Rooinek  opened a discussion on interesting players who may be out of the 2023 WC - Dave added a number of names iro if players he liked - Shark Bok eliminated some of those, but what did you come up with?   Your normal and repetitive BS about De Allende. 

That really is the tome that killed the thread.   Are you really a nu t case - stupid?   

Change or tweak?  I'd rest with "Tweak" 

The pattern of play is fixed, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Minor improvements to the set pieces and the only change should be a more proactive backline from set play.

As for the players, finding a quality alternative to Pollard is a must and equally important is to find a quality talisman. Put all of that in place and we're guaranteed another RWC final.

Good post, Koosie.

Looking at the WC winning squad, I see a lengthy list of chumps that can be done away with.

Oh and Stupid ... a squad consists of 31 players ... not 131.

Dumb Ass!!

CC

With all the players you want to dump the Springboks was describe by you as second rate team.  How come the team won the WC and a player like Am played a key role in the final victory,   Am bit baffled by the statement you made after you were totally wrong about the WC situ ation at all..  

I am very sorry for Kriel - injuries ruined his last two seasons and I am afraid he is now out of contention for future Springbok selection - his age counts against him.   

I do however agree with a number of the other players you listed - but the evidence suggests that objectivity is not your strong suit.             

Mike ... your comments are not surprising, being ignorant, a quota lover and a card carrying member of the ANC.

It doesn't take much to baffle you. Even a detailed explanation, with drawings would be beyond your grasp.

Jaco Kriel won't make your Goats side ... not because of the lack of ability ... but rather, there's a quota in his place and the Government intends keeping him there.

Dropping the incompetent captain for a highly skilled white boy would cause riots and possibly a civil war in this country.

The only changes that will be made is for those elderly pensioners who've called it day. Other than that, the Goats mix will remain exactly the same, so not to worry, Lukhanyo Am will still be there for you to cheer on.

Hahahaha. CC once again calling a spade a fucking shovel. 

The truth will always remain the truth. No matter how you colour it in. Just call it as it is. Don’t call it a manually hand- operated ground moving device if it is easier to just call it what it is, a spade..... or a fucking shovel. 

Haaaaahahahahahaha ... don't know any other way Ceradyne ... and it seems to be getting worse as I near my sixties.

Nice of you to join us, Stupid.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ... a broader squad, huh!? ... that narrows down, huh? Of course ... what was I thinking ... ? Silly me!!

So tell me, Dickwad, the 131 players you've listed, how exactly will you whittle them down?

Will it be reduced by 30 players each year ... and what happens if a player you discarded two years ago suddenly finds form again? Will he be brought back into the mix of 131?

Also, what about some of your favourite. Elton Jantjies hasn't made your list this time. How come? What if he has a cracker of a season the year before the world cup ... will he be included in your squad of 131?

And ... what happens if a few rising stars surface during WC year? Will you discard the tried and tested for them or will you stay loyal?

Oh it's so confusing ... I thank my lucky stars that I have you, Stupid Dave ... to explain these things to me.

How's your mum? She good??

CC

I have been an ANC member when Mbeki was President and left them when Zima became President,    So no card carrying member since 2007.   

As to Kriel - he is too old to be a longer term investment.    If he was playing in 2018 and 2019 and was performing on the level we were accustomed to he would have been considered by Erasmus,   

Dylan  Smith looks a good future prospect, and can play himself into the team - so the best advice is to see how he does in the SR series,        

The trouble on this board is that I am the only person who understands the game - as the record shows very clearly.

Rooitwit trying to imagine you as a coach is far beyond my powerful and creative imagination. 

Your total lack of rugby acumen has been repeatedly demonstrated. 

As for Saffex perv his list of players contains a number of dummies. Saffex reckons if he names virtually our 4 super rugby teams he might hit on a few winners and his boasting would never end. Saffex perv is another ignorant prick who simply doesn't understand the game. 

HAHAHAHA 

He is better than Jantjies which is a good start. He also has natural speed which is a major plus. Is he physically robust enough for the position......don't know. Does he have defensive weaknesses....sure he has but those are things which can be addressed. With a good mentor and lots of experience he might be the man.

Dan, Saffex is a repressed homosexual, hasn't quite come out the closet. He gets relief by coaching young boys rugby and selecting rugby teams where it's a case of making everyone a Bok. 

So he has a lot of repressed anger as he also gets criticised for some weird selections. That really sends him off. 

An odious overweight little fellow operating as a shady lawyer in Londonistan I think it was. 

Hahahahaha hahaha. Anyhow he can be very amusing! 

Bosch is a deeply flawed player. Can he overcome his defensive frailties is the big question. No place for him with the Boks at this stage. 

Kwagga needs to go back to Sevens or try to make it as a center. 

Senatla also - back to sevens.

Don't have the time or inclination to correct all the very ignorant Saffex picks. 

Oh come now Stupid ... every squad of yours is selected on a "broader" spectrum ... the majority of which are no more than average club players.

You are easily the most ignorant poster on this site and have been for many moons.

One just has to look at your pathetic selections.

You honestly think that the likes of

Gelant, Fassi, Senatla, Pietersen, Am, Esterhuizen, Vorster, Odendaal, Bosch, Reinach, Papier, Thomas du Toit, Kebble, Dweba, Ox Nche (yes at hooker), Mboambi, Jason Jenkins, Lourens Erasmus, Kolisi, Jacques du Plessis, Notshe, Liebenberg, Brink, Dayamani

are world beaters and have what it takes to play test match rugby?

Huh??

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha,

You said the same thing about Jantjies and JJ and we all know what a bunch of fuck ups they were. Wasn't JJ the best center since Danie Gerber? LMAO!!!

Remember how you went on and on about the brilliance of hinging Coenie at 3? That still cracks me up.

It's never ending with you, Stupid. In all these years, you've learnt nothing. You are as ignorant today as you were when I first met you on Super Sport 20 years back.

A total dumb ass.

Mike ... the mere fact that you became a member of the ANC at all is enough proof for me.

It never dawned on me to join them ... it never dawned on me to lend them my support ... against my own people. You on the other hand had no issues with being a card carrying member for many many years. It didn't bother you. You have no morals ... no integrity ... no decency.

You are a low life piece of shit.

As for your rugby ... you are on par with Stupid Dave ... an ignorant fool ... always have been. That is why most members on here laugh at you. You are the resident clown. Don't you know that? Has it never dawned on you why so many members on here give you shit?

It's probably your thick skin that's sheltered you from seeing it all.

Many tolerate your daily idiocy. We've grown accustomed to it over the years. It's like having a drooling retard in the family. You try to be pleasant ... but when it comes to having a sensible conversation with it, it's best you just nod and say "yes" ... and "oh really, that's wonderful" and when it's not looking, you try to escape.

You get it now, Clever ... Mike? 

Mike comments very sensibly on American politics and on current South African politics.

He largely  knows what's going on. How he got involved with the ABC beats me. A serious blunder. But to his credit he has ditched them.

Mike got Rassie right, Steph Du Toit, Allende and Malherbe right and his rugby knowledge is up to scratch. 

Nobody gets it right all the time CC. 

You need to get over your disappointment that the Boks took all the honors in 2019.

You may find some joy in 2020 as Rassie coaching the Boks by remote control has me concerned. We shall see what happens.