Some call him Dud Toit

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Ag, Draad, to be fair, most of us like PSDT.

That "Se as jy bang is. Ons maak n' f'n plan." pulled at everybody's heartstrings because, as South Africans, we all know that feeling of somebody standing up to remind us of who we are, of brotherhood and that we all need taking care of sometimes.

At the end, he is a warrior.

Most of the flack PSDT gets here is purely banter.

He'll go down as one of the greatest Boks ever, along with many others in this current group.

But we should hold the Kwaggas and Mosterts right there with him because they deserve just as much praise.

Mostert being the guy I would most like to have a beer with one day...actually Mostert and Kwagga.

The vid needs an update....it's 6 years old...

Is there new material in the last years…eg a jackal?

Black-backed jackals are known for their wailing early-evening calls. Credit: Getty Images

The Jackal

Draad don’t you love that Moz thinks that PSDT, a 2m tall blindside should be effecting turnovers

The perfect example of rugby ignorance

Hell I’d settle for a tackle beat every 5th run.

Saffex, RuckersForum 101: Never underestimate the childish and pathetic lengths Moffie will go to "support" his silly little rugby fantasies.

If you were about to choose a team for a World Cup final tomorrow, the first name on the team sheet is Steph Du Toit. He may even be the first choice in a World XV.

Vastly overrated player. Here’s a classic case, the Ellis Park test last year. The Boks are behind ….Kwagga Smith comes on and saves the game. Dud who did literally nothing of importance gets the MOM.

A good process tackler, the poorest forward ball carrier we have ever had, useless over the ball on the deck, he bottles out like Kolisi. And he plays in spurts ….anonymous through the WC semi he put in a vast effort when the cameras were on him.

But he is a gentle giant with blonde hair and a nice smile, the acceptable face of Bok rugby.

You just don't get it...it's a pity.

Draad

you must bear in mind Mozart hates some players and lies about their performances in matches, That is why he is such a fool when it copmes to rugby performance evaluation. He spreads shit on site and beieve it is factual.

A Question for the Pieter groupies: Is Stef, in your honest opinion, a better ball carrier in traffic than Jasper "The Hulk" Wiese??

"He spreads shit on site and beieve it is factual." Look who's talking...Uncle BS himself LMAO :)

Mpower

Wiese is a ball carier in traffic with Du Toit vasrtl better in open field playing - where Wiese is a dodo, Do you still belive that loosies are an extension of the Tight 5? . Wiese is a typical guy in thatcategory, He tries to copy Vermeulen - but he is not up to that standard at all. The fact is in the new style of play Du Toit is the ultimate player, since he can fit into both lock and flank positions and is in fact the captain when Kolisi is replaced,

The Springbks at present score more tries than before, In many of thiose tris Du Toit played a mjor role when he gets involved in backline attacking play, Fact is Du Toit scored more tries in tests thn a long list of bacckline players scored, He also scored more tries than any forward bar Marx scired, Mrx 17 tries came from, driving mauls - Du Toit's 15 from bot forward and openfield play.

Uncle BS, that was a useless ramble, and it didn’t answer my question at all.

The question was clear: Who is the better Ball carrier in traffic, Stef or Wiese.??

All the Du Toit tries scored and open-field stuff?? Completely irrelevant.

But just to be clear, maybe 20% of Stef hovering out on the wing and "trying" to play a linking role out wide, leads to tries scored.

Pieter's best attributes: His defence and fitness.

Why don't you try answering the actual question next time or better yet just keep quiet...

Mapoewer

I tried top get some sense into your statement. Du Toit "hovering" on the wing is part of th e preent game plan where the loosies should be part of backline attack. In fact it is a very real and positive part. Of the 27 tries scored in the RC this year - Du Toit "hovering" contributed to 5 of the tries.

I never said Wise was better or worse than Du Toit, All I said is they ahve specific roles in the team and Wiese will never be nominated as player of the years I trid o point out the differences in playing style and requirements. Whether he is effective is not always clear because in 41 tests played thus far for the Springboks 2 tries - in 95 tests played Du Toit scored 17 tries,

To try and compare Du Toit and Wiese is unbeleivable. - Wiese is a type of player with limited usage - Du Toit is an all -round player valuavble in line-outs - and mauls as well, Wiese is a limited player and not comparable to Du Toit.

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Loaded question...Jasper is a better battering ram...and it's not groupies...we recognize a generational great player and give him credit for an exceptional career...a true and humble servant of Bok rugby...and why compare him to Jasper? Totally different players with different roles in the Bok setup.

Oh by goodness Uncle BS...I asked a simple question. And here you go again blah blah blah blah = IRRELEVANT.

I didn’t compare Wiese and Du Toit in every possible aspect. The Question: Who is the better ball carrier in traffic, Stef or Jasper??

Just answer the question. That’s it.

I did.

I am now specifically speaking to the uncle, so let him answer...why do you so often, feel the need to speak on his behalf?

"true and humble servant of Bok rugby...and why compare him to Jasper? Totally different players with different roles in the Bok setup."

This sentence prove you are a groupie...one simple question and you have your panties in a knot.

I did not compare the two of them on all facets of there play. A comparison question on there carries in traffic is valid.

Ellis Park……NZ are up 27 to 14, it’s minute 62. NZ gets a penalty on our 22. They kick it, they probably win. But they elect to kick it out in the corner….incredibly stupid, but we still have to stop the try.

NZ goes for a trick lineout, moving the ball from the receiver to another forward. Etzebeth spots the trick and nails the receiver 2metres backwards. All momentum is lost and Kwagga spots the opportunity and makes the steal. That was the game, the RC, the whole trajectory of Robinson’s ABs.

But Dud gets the MOM without registering one important act. What does he do that is beyond the ordinary ….except tackling….and as I have already pointed out on the Board, Mostert’s tackling stats are always better.

It’s a public relations triumph

"I am now specifically speaking to the uncle, so let him answer...why do you so often, feel the need to speak on his behalf?

I never speak on his behalf. The question was directed at the "Pieter Groupies"

"true and humble servant of Bok rugby...and why compare him to Jasper? Totally different players with different roles in the Bok setup."

This sentence prove you are a groupie...one simple question and you have your panties in a knot. It proves swet fall. It was a loaded question and you know it...why pick that particular facet of the game?

I did not compare the two of them on all facets of there play. A comparison question on there carries in traffic is valid.

Jasper will have good meters gained stats because he normally take the deep kickoffs.

How stupid comparing Wiese to PSDT

Your shorter stocky players are more effective ball carriers

If you want to compare PSDT then that has to be with Eben, Lood and RG

PSDT is a lock playing blindside very effectively

One of a blindside flanker’s core jobs is carrying the ball in traffic.

Although Pieter Stef is a lock converted to blindside, he is still expected to:

- make hard carries close to the ruck

- generate go-forward ball in tight channels

- absorb contact and recycle quickly

- be effective in collision areas

Therefore, my question about his carrying in traffic ability versus Jasper Wiese is relevant and valid.

DB has said that Wiese is used as a battering ram, but when it comes to who is actually better at carrying in traffic, that question remains unanswered.

Manpower

The following is ancient BS and the reason why the team was never realy successful.

,make hard carries close to the ruck

- generate go-forward ball in tight channels

- absorb contact and recycle quickly

- be effective in collision areas

The role pof the loosies used to eb an extension of the Tight 5. The AB's for near to 30 years dominated World Rugby because hey inegated their loosies into being part of attacking play and that is what was changed by Erasnus anc the real reason was the huge ibclease in try-scoring by the Springboks since 2004. That is why Brown was appointed as attack coach, ans it showed in the number of tries he S pringboks scored.

We cannt afford to go back to 10 man rugby where hhe loosies become and remain part of the Tight 5,

Well hellooo PSDT is a very effective ball carrier in traffic who said he was not? He is just as effective as Eben, Lood and RG are

Uncle BS for goodness sake, stop talking so much KAK :) The points i listed in my post, are still core responsibilities of a blindside flanker today.

Nothing “ancient” about that. Just because Pieter Stef stands out on the wing 60% of the time doesn’t magically make him a better blindside.

Your nonsense about loosies being an “extension of the tight five” is half baked and makes zero sense.

Yes, they can link with the backline like the All Blacks do, but that doesn’t erase their fundamental duties.

What Erasmus did was to strengthen our forwards again. And of that strengthened basis we can score more tries.

We are still a predominantly forward oriented team, and in tight games, 10 man rugby is exactly what we play.

Hello? EOYT tour against Ireland, how did we win? Forward dominance. Not your fantasy attack setup.

So, before you start preaching about

“ancient BS” or “going back to 10 man rugby,” wake up and smell the coffee :)

If you want to compare PSDT then that has to be with Eben, Lood and RG

…they are locks they have other duties. That said Snyman is much better than Dud….Lomp is the dream that never happens

If Dud Toit had been a better lock he would have been our 5 for years. But his lineout work was suspect. By now Snyman is by far our best 5.

Dud Toit is a rover, he has no set duties….one game he is on the wing, the next he is in tackling slot number 1. It worked against George Ford in the WC…..any decent flyhalf should be able to exploit those banshee charges.

Moz, what exactly are you talking about?

Yes, Pieter Steph used to be a lock, and if he was still playing lock, then yes, comparing his ball carrying in traffic, with other locks would make sense.

But he is not a lock anymore, he is a blindside flanker.

So why is the comparison with Jasper Wiese so outlandish, if he is part of the loose trio? This is honestly a real simple question...

Moz stop speaking utter shit - PSDT was moved to 7 because we lacked an option there and we had Lood and Eben at lock

He was not moved to 7 because he was poor at 5 - that’s your pathetic childish angle - it’s a lie

PSDT was a far better 5 than Mostert ever was and that’s a fact

It’s testament to PSDT’s skill that as a lock he could nail down being one of the best blindsides ever

Jasper always go for contact, PSDT often try to hit the gaps...but the two has vastly different roles in the team...

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Dud Toit is a rover, he has no set duties….one game he is on the wing, the next he is in tackling slot number 1. It worked against George Ford in the WC…..any decent flyhalf should be able to exploit those banshee charges.

Every player in the team has very specific duties for every maych...just because we don't know exactly what they are doesn't mean it isn't there..

PS...the blindside both flankers play a huge role in the dcrum, especially the blind side...

Sorry M this was a quote from Dave ‘ If you want to compare PSDT then that has to be with Eben, Lood and RG‘…..I completely agree that’s nonsense. He is playing as a flank and should do what flanks do…Jackaling is one of them. Lawes and Itoje do it….2 extra inches is no excuse for bottling out.

Sorry M this was a quote from Dave ‘ If you want to compare PSDT then that has to be with Eben, Lood and RG‘…..I completely agree that’s nonsense. He is playing as a flank and should do what flanks do…Jackaling is one of them. Lawes and Itoje do it….2 extra inches is no excuse for bottling out.

No problem Moz thanks for clarifying.

Moz you don’t know your rugby - the majority of 2m tall players in any rugby side regardless of what position they play in are not tasked with effecting turnovers

The fact that Itoje or Lawes have effected the odd turnover in the careers does not change this fact

Expecting a giraffe to get into a position to effect a turnover is rugby ignorance of the highest order

PSDT is effectively a lock not associated with being athletic which is something Itoje is, who happens to only be 1.95m tall.

It’s so damn obvious why you don’t see the likes of PSDT trying to effect turnovers - they are just not equipped to do it.

The fact that you think just because he is a flank, he should be effecting turnovers is pretty rugby naive.

In rugby it’s the shorter players under 1.9m that you see effecting turnovers not the 2m tall players - pretty obvious

1. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland): Standing at 6ft 6in (1.98m), Beirne is renowned for his phenomenal jackling ability, consistently achieving high turnover rates. His unique technique and license to go for the ball make him a significant threat at the breakdown, even at his height.

It’s hard to understand how anyone can bitterly slag off PSDT yet sing the praises of slapgat Mors-stert. Sure, he might not be the best in his position, and yes, he has his flaws, but I’d say he’s had moments of greatness… has Mors-stert had any?

Don't think so.

I have seen BS spreading by rugby iudiots on site before - but this oine takes the cake because it displays total rugby ignorance coupled to a system Mozart and Manpower knows zero about. First of all 0 the function of 7 is clearly total BS:.

First of all th ere are tswo thin gs th e two idiots do not realize, The Sprin gboks had a probvlem cearly identified in 2018 by Easmus and that is the ened to ha ve a thiord option in line-outs other than the locks and thta was why Erasmus instructed the S tormers to play Du Toit and Mostert at 7. Mostert was used at 7 for three matches and failed the test, Du Toit passed the test with flying colours - but ina test last ear he plaed at 4,54 and 7 in one test,

While lets look at the situation carefully and wothout shoit spreadin galore, i fil to undesrstand why rel rugby experts - all ex-captains of their respective test sides = selected Du Toit as Player of the Year on 4 occassions and he won the award twice, It is not based on B S spreading by the tw worst idiots on this sitem. The fct is that the most prolific award winners were Carter y flyhalf and loosies/ Hookers in 24 years won it twice, the rest of the awards went to other backline players or loosies/

So what ios the fnctions of loosies? The list gave by Mpower indictes a seven lossie is no different from what the functions of a ight 5 player is, The AB;s discarded that concept for decades and the loosies became part of the attack methdology of the AB's as far back as 1987. Th e lossies were part of the bckline attack system and for years the hookers were also included in tht category.

The wirst 67 th e Sprin gboks eve h ad was Alberts totally adored by the number 1 sute idiot - Mozart. Alberts never made a brakdown turnover in his whole career, Je ajd the pace of a slow prop and a a loosie he was totally ineffective as a defender, Wiese is in he same category, Slow - but as dim as Alberts were before 2016.. After 2017 Du Toit played for the Springboks as a lock unitially and then moved to 7 a fter Erasmus realized we had no 7 loosies that really met the requirements as -

1. an additonal line-out option.; and
2. the usage of the 7 as a option to enhance backline atacking; and
3. beong an effective addition to ball carries in traffic

Lets gp back tp the 2019 RWC final. In the semi against the AB's the En glish backline was extremely effective and as a result they beat the AB;s in the semi. In teh final Erasmus assigbed two players the uty to destroy the En glish backline attacking and those two players were D u Toit and De A llende, Mazarts descriotuib as ti wh atn happened in the case of th e two tries was BS supreme and lies as well. Th e first try came from a bix kick by the English scrummie and was not a mistake by the English per se. Willie caught the ball in he kick and it came back to the S pring boks side the ball was passed to Marx who drew in a defender passed he abll to Mapimpi who carried it for five meters and made a kick followed up by Am who got th ball in the air from the Maimpi kick and passed the ball back to Mapimpi wit an open trline ah ead of him. So it was no a turnover by the Springboks - it as retention by he S prin gboks a fter a box kick by the POMS.

The second try was eual BS but wa the result of tharting of h e En glish attack by both D e Allende and Du Toit, The comment of the En glish commentator as "there are just no way through fo the English The bal went to Slade who faced a hard tackle from Marx and he lost th ball forward - Am managed to get hold of the ball ending up on the ground and passed the ball to Du Toit who drew in two defenders and passed he ball to Kobe - who just had ta little bit of space he used to score the final try in the match. So another flimsy B S description by an idiot who openly brag ged on site that he does not see wh at happened in amtches when he does not want to see what really happened in matches,

So letsface a bit of reality and looked at the much-praised Mostert. He was on and off the number 5 lock for the Springboks when other players were injured and was sometimes a bench player used at 7, In 2013 started wtha campai g n to get Matfield bac from retirement and that wa shte end of the Sprin gbok efforts in 2015. Matfield failed as a lock in 2014 and 2015 and in 2018 when it came to Du Toit - whom for one obvious reason Mozart hated from 2013.and that as because some site members touted D Du Toit as the answer to the Springboks no 5 lock and not Matfiield. That was the start of Mozarts's crazzy attacks on Du Toit - while Mpower became a firm advicate for the number 7 loiisue as obne dmentional - namely catrrying balls in traffic, in other words being lile Alberts a slow and limited loosie,

Experts rate Du Toit as a top class player mainly rated higher than any other present player in that position - so to come up with shit like the sit idiots do is lunaacy, No loosie is supposed to be a Tight 5 player - they have a more versatie requirement than the case was in the past, Loosies needs to be more moblie and not limited to being an extra lock or tight forward ,

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"It’s hard to understand how anyone can bitterly slag off PSDT yet sing the praises of slapgat Mors-stert. Sure, he might not be the best in his position, and yes, he has his flaws, but I’d say he’s had moments of greatness… has Mors-stert had any?

Who is better?

Who is the best blindside flanker in the world? "While opinions vary, Pieter-Steph du Toit (South Africa) is widely considered the best blindside flanker in the world currently, often topping power rankings due to his immense work rate, tackling prowess, and game-changing impact, highlighted by his 2019 World Rugby Player of the Year award and incredible RWC performances, with players like Caelan Doris, Ardie Savea, and Tom Curry also frequently mentioned among the elite."

Typical AI BS answer....none of the alternatives are primarily blindside flankers...Kremer might have something to say, but I'll back PSDT as best blindside in the game.