"Any other points I need to despose of on the glorious first?"
I'm sorry, what does "despose" mean?
Is it the opposite of "suppose"?
Help me out here Moffie, we know you never make a mistake or a typo so it must be some word the rest of us are too uneducated to have heard of.
Here's a classic from our two Grumpy Old Men. . . check out ou Maaik's analysis of Kolbe.
https://www.ruckersforum.com/forum/sport/if-kolbe-is-not-too-small---why-was-aplon-too-small/18914
Here's Moffie claiming he was the "lead supporter" of Kolbe before getting man-shamed on the thread yet again:
LMAO!
Given he is on the blindside of the scrum, there is a good chance the centre will be operating on the opposite side to him in the majority of the scrums
But that aside I’m not stupid enough to expect a 2m tall player to get into a position to effect a turnover. That is rugby stupidity of the highest order
So are you going to answer the question - why do we not see Eben, RG, Lood, Mostert, Nortje, Moerat or Kleyn effecting turnovers huh?
MozartHall Of Famer
47,985 posts
Aug 13, 2019, 17:00
Dec 14, 2018, 17:03
The same height as Shane Williams, Kolbe gave a more than perfect imitation of the Welsh stepper at Cardiff. He was virtually impossible to stop in space, bamboozling up to 4 tacklers in one run. Yes but, is the reaction to his virtuoso performance....but he is too small. Yet he took high balls well and brought down bigger opponents reliably.
In a toothless backline he is certainly an attacking weapon and a refreshing departure from the behemoths. Is he a WC weapon? Maybe not, but he did damn well this year apart from one instance where he flew inside on defence, something of a new Bok trademark.
Kolbe has vision, is as fast over the first 30 metres as any player in the game and has perhaps the best step in the game....and he is smart. Credit to Rassie for taking a risk on his potential.
That was my view before the WC in 2019. Earlier in his career I wasn’t sure he was going to be physical enough which given his size was a fair concern. He turned out to be a physical phenomenon.
Here your Luke warm appreciation…,does this sound like ‘his strongest supporter’
RooinekHall Of Famer
16,251 posts
Jan 18, 2017, 14:58
Cheslin Kolbe will be leaving the Hapless Stompies at the end of this season and joining Toulouse.
Always thought Kolbe was a bit underrated in South Africa mainly because of our obsession with size.
…….
Kolbe was a bit underrated you say…..but you claim to be his strongest supporter. Not a peep about being a loss to Bok rugby.
Schplotsky!
Okay let’s agree to disagree on turnovers…how about ball carrying….is he also not supposed to run because he is too tall to break tackles….and if that’s the case why is he our lead forward ball carrier?
His ball carrying is a strength - up there with Eben, RG and Lood - all tall big lumps who are tasked to mostly carry in traffic - they don’t break tackles regularly as the giraffes are easier to contain than the squat Wiese types
PSDT is big and physical enough to take contact and breach the advantage line with a view to the next phase set up. We are talking about a metre or so in contact
He carrying as I said is no better or worse than Eben, Lood or RG but better than physical liabilities like Mostert and Nortje
You seem to have a very warped take on the roles of the 2m tall, 120kg+ players
They don’t run around breaking tackles or effecting turnovers - they are there to carry in traffic, add grunt to scrums, rucks, clean outs, tackles and mauls
His ball carrying produces nothing….most of these tall chaps don’t break tackles. But they do offload…Snyman for example.
So the net of all this is a flank who can’t fetch, can’t break tackles, can’t offload is the greatest Springbok of all time because in the WC final he made 28 process tackles, while in all the other key WC games he averaged 9.
I have to repeat my question because it’s never been answered what does he do that actually makes him the greatest Bok of all time.
So what is clezy is Mozart distortions he spread on site, He believes what is happening on the field of play is stated in his own comments. He stated before he does not see what he does not wish to see. In opther words facts do not count - but his own fabrication is what according to him should couint.
Oh for crying out loud, does Eben break tackles, does Eben offload?
Who said he was the greatest Bok of all time?
He is our best blindside of all time just like Eben is our best lock of all time
"He is our best blindside of all time just like Eben is our best lock of all time"
Get real.
Wherever Eben is on the list of best Bok locks of all time, he's not ahead of Bakkies or Matfield and he's behind the great Frik du Preez. Bakkies and Eben are both less attractive selections for me because of disgusting and embarrassing behaviour on the field.
Mark Andrews and Krynauw Otto are right up there as well.
Andre Venter is PSdT's threat to all-time best Bok blindside flanker. For me anyway. He was a true man of steel for the Springboks and I haven't heard how he's doing lately but he effectively gave his life for the Springbok cause . . . pretty much the way he played the game.
My all time Springbok XV has Frik du Preez in the #4 jersey, Matfield or Andrews in the #5 and a tough call between PSdT and Andre Venter for the #7.
No Rooi you are completely wrong - your anti Eben is on par with Moz’s anti PSDT
Eben is by some distance the best lock the Boks have ever had and there has been no better lock in the game the world over
Bakkies was good as was Matfield, but Eben is next level
Saffex, I know you'll respond by telling me how small Frik du Preez is by today's standards but I don't measure these things by how they would perform in the modern game, I measure greatness by the extent they dominated their contemporaries when they did play . . . and Frik du Preez and Pinetree Meads are head and shoulders the two greatest locks to have played the game. John Eales the best of the rest.
It's like your disdain for Donald Bradman, the greatest cricketer who ever lived. You'll never change my mind and I'll never change yours. You never did reply to my question . . . if the bowling was so crap in Bradman's day how come Bradman's contemporaries don't have batting averages like his?
You've dodged this question for some years now.
.
.
I can’t comment on Frik as I never saw him play
So based on all the locks I have seen play the game, Eben literally walks it for me.
As for Bradman, my call is based on the standard of bowling back then which looked way off what we see today
But yes you have a point with reference to all the other bats of his time
My theory was that if Bradman had been a modern day test bat he would not have had a test average of 99 today
So for me it’s hard to reach a conclusion on how gifted he was. Footage of him leads me to believe that he did not look as gifted as many of the more modern test greats like Kallis, AB, Sangakkara, Ponting, Lara, Yousaf, Tendukar, Kohli, Root, Williamson, Smith, Clarke, Richards etc but then again Steve Smith hardly looks the part now does he
Okay, but then why don't Ponsford and Hutton have batting averages like Bradman's?
I never saw Frik play either. But I have watched a lot of old footage and I have enormous respect for what people like Danie Craven, Hennie Muller and Frik du Preez have done for Springbok rugby . . . and I know more about Springbok history than most people I know.
Of the old-timers I never saw, Frik, die Windhond, the Morkels and the Louws are all Springbok greats I would consider for any all-time Springbok team.
Edit: The only significant change I've made to my personal all time Bok XV recently is SFM replacing my favourite Springbok Henry Honiball in the #10 jersey.
Jubba is still my fullback and Joost still my scrummie.
Yeah I can’t comment on players I have never seen play so for me the Frik’s of this world can’t feature in my assessment and the reality of these calls is that time clouds the calls
Thats why when I’m trying to make a call on who is better between Jean and de Allende at 12, I tend to lean towards the current because it’s fresh in my mind but of course that is flawed in itself
No one player stands apart except for maybe our new sensation in Sacha
For me it was Butch, Honibal and Pollard but Sacha blows them out the park
I never liked Naas but you have to include him in any Springbok flyhalf shortlist. He was a genius.
Sacha is something else though . . . something we've never seen before.
Yes Naas was gifted, the ultimate general with a soft underbelly
Great debate.....it's only left to say that Bradman should be judged in the era that he played and the players who played alongside of him and the teams he played against.
A lot has changed through the years in technology, wickets, rules etc so to compare the performance of a player in the 40's to a player 40 or 50 years later is not possible.
The fact remains that Bradman was, and still is, an Icon of his era and I've always believed that the greats of one era would be a great in any era.
I know that the greats of today still respect and admire Don Bradman.
I should also say that Australia had several great players playing at the time, none of them came close to his record.
What I find amazing is the quality of their technique in the days when unlike today there was no history, videos or coaching manuals to glean from.
They created history, not only of themselves, they also laid the foundation for others to follow.
Yeah I reckon Bradman today would probably have had a similar test average as the likes of Kallis etc but we will never know
What we do know is that he would not have averaged 99 today
What we do know is that he would not have averaged 99 today
The important thing is that he did it in his era whereas no-one else did.
Harold Larwood:
Key Speed Points:
https://www.facebook.com/VintCric/videos/fascinating-clip-of-harold-larwood-sir-don-bradman-from-the-bodyline-series-with/1925007284712855/
When Bradman faced Lrwood he was bowling nearly as fast as Brett Lee using the new bodyline approach….and the protective gear was much feebler with no helmets. I’d say the challenge Bradman faced was as scary as anything experienced today.
Larwood dismissed Bradman 4 times in the body line series where he only averaged 56 :)
I’m surprised it wasn’t lower. It’s hard to imagine anyone going unprotected, especially compared to today, when just a split second with harmful intent can send a hard ball hurtling straight at you.