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FORUM / RUGBY /  Some rugby positions have evolved; By Elisha Pearce the ROAR

Some rugby positions have evolved; By Elisha Pearce the ROAR

Started by Just_win8 REPLIES355 VIEWS· 07 Apr 2015, 19:45
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Apr 2015, 19:45
#1
07 Apr 2015, 19:45#1

Which rugby positions are being changed by the people playing the game currently?

One of the fascinating things about watching sport is the way it changes over time. This can be due to of the talent in the game at any time.

Throughout the last seven or eight years LeBron James helped basketball evolve due to the way he could adapt his skill set to almost any position on the court depending on the opponent’s strength or weaknesses. Last year and this year the likes of Steph Curry, Klay Thompson at Golden State, as well as the San Antonio Spurs have confirmed the game’s next evolution – one that emphasises ball movement above individual strengths and finding space to take three point shots.

In the shorter forms of cricket you could sense while Adam Gilchrist played that the expectations on a wicket keeper would never be the same. Now, especially in the shorter forms of the game, they are expected to be a seventh batsman, and maybe an opener.

In previous generations whatever effort the keeper managed with the bat was a bonus, not a prerequisite. Gilly changed all that.

Triangles, sweet beautiful triangles, have overtaken the game of football at the highest levels. To the point where the viability of an old fashioned striker at the very top level is in question. Gone are the days where you could devote a position on the pitch solely to poaching goals inside the box, pressing on the last man and trying to get his head on the long ball.

Now all 10 outfield players must be at home all over the pitch as the team compresses, expand, shift and adapt on the fly. False nines are the new black.

Those who follow the NFL will be able to wax lyrical about the running quarterbacks, the tight ends that might be a wide receiver and the hybrid outside linebackers and defensive end players showing great dexterity that have all emerged in recent years.

So what positions are evolving and have evolved on the rugby field in recent years. I’m going to put forward two position groups that have changed significantly and continue to change. Let me know if you can see it too, and nominate ones you think I’ve overlooked.

Back row
I group all of the backrow positions together because I think this is the place on the field increased athleticism, partly due to two decades of professionalism probably, has shown up the most in rugby.

The way rugby union is played now the back row positions are blending together and might be predominantly determined based on size, rather than skill set or tactical deployment alone. The player to watch in this regard is Richie McCaw. Sure, years and age may have slowed him down, but his move to spend more time at eight or even blindside flanker in recent years is partly down to the way the game is played.

A Crusaders backrow of Richie McCaw, Matt Todd and Keiran Read is a less partitioned skill set than you’d have found 10 years ago.

In 2015 a number eight’s defining trait is they expected to play with such ferocity and physicality it borders on a psychotic position to consider playing. Even just a few years ago the eightman was usually just big – think Owen Finegan, or even Pierre Spies more recently. Now you have to not only be big you have to play like Duane Vermuelen.

Seriously, the way he played against the Hurricanes on the weekend was manic. He is large, yes, but he throws himself, rams himself, jams himself and throttles himself until the opposition submit. The eightman must become a battering ram. Vermuelen has set a new high-water mark this year in my opinion and Jerome Kaino is the man who keeps lifting it higher with him.

I genuinely enjoy watching Keiran Read play but he is not the normal number eight anymore. His cerebral, athletic play needs to be balanced out by battering rams across the park. The same goes for Scott Higginbotham, who is a less-refined and (gulp) less-skilled Read.

Outright poachers at the openside flanker position are rarer because fitter teams in general mean everyone is expected to arrive at rucks sooner. Sevens have retained some of their freelancer role but I think the position is rugby’s x-factor one now.

You have the likes of Michael Hooper who is an all round athletic freak, Schalk Burger who is the new George Smith in the backline ball runner, Liam Gill who focuses on poaching but behaves like a modern version of John Eales with his lineout jumping and underrated dexterity and the Matt Todd/David Pocock types who still poach but act like powerful boulders around the park in rucks and tackles.

The opensider flanker is the position to experiment with pure athletes.

The blindside flanker position is a powerful blend of both the seven and eight. These players are usually such a good athlete they can combine the diesel engine of a second row with the power of a number eight. Playing back row positions in rugby has never been for the faint hearted, but in 2015 it’s at a new level.

Wing 
Jonah Lomu’s playing weight was 119 kilograms and he was over 1.9 metres tall. He is still a benchmark for rugby wingers, but his dimensions are less and less of an outlier now.

Taqele Naiyaravoro is 125kg and 1.9 metres tall. Julian Savea is ‘only’ 108kg but is 1.93 metres tall and his 100 metre time can’t be too far off Lomu’s 10.8 seconds at his fastest. Nemani Nadolo is meant to be around 130kgs (I think he’s probably lighter now) and 1.95 metres tall. Frank Halai is 105 kilos and 1.95 metres. Patrick Osborne is 1.89 metres tall and 108 kilos.

The wing position in rugby has been changed forever, with a much more superhuman blend of size and speed becoming more normal. The professional game is rewarding physical freaks for their ability to both finish tries in space as well as bowl people over in traffic. One aspect of game-wide improvements in physical fitness and team organisation has been defence. To combat this, teams need attacking weapons that can run around teams and through them – not just one or the other.

If you’re willing to expand the position to include some fullbacks Israel Folau (1.93m/102kg) and Charles Piutau (1.86m/94kg), then you’d realise that the men at the back are hardly shrinking violets either.

The wing position is no longer a place to stick the skinny quicker guy. Those guys will get drilled in a tackle or run over by a flying Nadolo.

There is room for a few skill-focused wing players, such as James O’Connor, Willie Le Roux or Ben Smith. But having two wings with that skill set is now rare, and a good team will probably never have three of them in the back three ever again.

Pace and power on the edges – now the norm in rugby union.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Apr 2015, 19:57
#2
07 Apr 2015, 19:57#2
 He rates Vermuelen and Kaino at no. 8. Seems right to me. Kaino seems to get better every week. I still believe it is good to have a player with skills like Reid has & McCaw has instincts that are hard to beat.
For wings I go for big and fast on one wing & silky skills on the other. This is the way the ABs select their wingers. If you have two big wings you need silky skills at fullback - Dagg last weekend & wee Willie when his is not doing something stupid.
Selections also depend on who you are playing and their playing style. If you are playing most SA teams you don't want light weights all over the park.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Apr 2015, 13:44
#3
08 Apr 2015, 13:44#3

Poor Kolbe on the receiving end proved the issue with little guys in your side.......in my opinion you can only afford to have smaller guys at 9 & 10.......and there is always place for a Hooper sized openside flanker.......for the rest, the guys have to be big.

 

My call is props and locks should be around 115kg plus.......120kg being preferable. Locks need to be no less than 1.98m.

 

Hooker around 105kg +

 

Openside - 100kg +

 

Blindside - 110kg +

 

No8 - 105kg +

 

No9 - 80kg +

 

No10 - 85kg +

 

12 to 15 should be 95kg + 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
08 Apr 2015, 14:01
#4
08 Apr 2015, 14:01#4
Dave, those weights all sound a bit light by your standards. I assume those are your minimum weights for U13 schoolboys?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Apr 2015, 14:35
#5
08 Apr 2015, 14:35#5
Once again showing Jake White was ahead of his time on the fetcher issue. While all the Natal supporters were howling for Watson, White eschewed the specialized fetcher for bigger men in the back row. He endured scathing criticism from the fans but history has proven him right.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Apr 2015, 17:11
#6
08 Apr 2015, 17:11#6
Good one Rooi  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Apr 2015, 17:37
#7
08 Apr 2015, 17:37#7

Ouch Moz gets it wrong again.....last I checked the only country playing with a massive fetcher is England and he happens to be useless.......Robshaw at 110kg

 

Here is the reality:

 

NZ

Cane - 103kg

McCaw - 106kg (mostly playing 7 these days)

 

Oz 

Hodgson - 103kg

Hooper - 97kg

Liam Gill - 96kg

 

SA

Coetzee - 106kg

Brussouw - 101kg

Kolisi - 102kg

Carr - 102kg

Kriel - 101kg

 

France

Dusautoir - 100kg

Nyanga - 96kg

 

Wales

Tipuric - 101kg

Warburton - 103kg

 

Ireland

O'Brien - 106kg

 

England

Robshaw - 110kg

Armitage - 103kg (widely regarded the best fetcher in England by some distance, but playing in France)

 

Jake chose Schalk as his 6, who now happens to be playing in his rightful spot at 7

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
09 Apr 2015, 01:55
#8
09 Apr 2015, 01:55#8
 As I have said many times, we don't have " fetches " here. 
Toulon list Armitage as being 96kg....the picture I saw of him today must show an unfit blob of about 18 stones, so both those weights are a nonsense !! 
Robshaw is not useless, check his stats again, Saffex. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Apr 2015, 04:38
#9
09 Apr 2015, 04:38#9
Well Watson was really about 95 kgs absent the fat. Of your group only Hooper plays in the old fashioned specialist fetcher role. The rest are fetcher hybrids, or players who no longer make their national teams.
The day of the small specialist fetcher is over...just as Jake predicted.
And by the way For Coetzee to be called a fetcher, he has to just once in a while make a turnover.
— END OF THREAD —

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