Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency

 rugby player, said for many of the rugby players just starting their careers, the biggest problem is probably spending habits. But as players get older they realise they will have to stop playing at some point and start planning for “retirement”.

Matfield said unfortunately there is a lack of financial education and players are often uncertain about how they should approach the issue. As such, a lot of the guys make bad investments and get involved in ill-advised businesses with friends.

Matfield said he got involved in some of these businesses.

“And what happened to me is a year later there was a R1 million bad debt in that business.”

His friend walked away from the business and he had to face the music.

“So I had to go in and I had to pay the R1 million out of my pocket just to save face. That’s just bad investment and a lot of the guys do that.”

Rugby players often receive bad investment advice.

 Most Sportsmen appoints financial experts so as to invest wisely - ask Bakkies Bortha what he did.   However, Matfield was not that clever and he tried to make fast bucks other than to listen to sound advice.  
Inherent decency - I would rather say inherent stupidity. 
    

Of course you would rather say "stupidity"...anything to attack the man. To me it sounds like he invested with a friend, who let the side down....but Victor stepped up and did the right thing. 

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21767RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 07, 2016, 17:26:44

 Most Sportsmen appoints financial experts so as to invest wisely - ask Bakkies Bortha what he did.   However, Matfield was not that clever and he tried to make fast bucks other than to listen to sound advice.  

Inherent decency - I would rather say inherent stupidity.  Ponzi scheme........ Mmmmmmm
A small regional paper exposes Matfield for losing millions, but not one shred of any article to back this up.
It seems you may have overstepped the boundaries here Mike just to score some brownie points on here.
I will gladly retract this statement if you can back up your claims, because if you can't, which is what it looks like, it shows you up as being a very shallow individual for making baseless claims like this against a legend of the game
Despite what anyone thinks of Matfield as a player, then and now, making these slanderous accusations is pathetic  

There goes Dumb Ass on one of his sanctimonious tirades again!

You can almost picture this cyber-equivalent of a class monitor with one hand on his hip and the other pointing a finger that is trembling with self-righteous indignation.

We'd better all be on our best behaviour!

LMAO!

 DA
I only write what I read at the time about Matfield in the newspapers and the fact is that the court records in the Ponzi scheme will show up who lost money in that case.   if Matfield was not a loser - why did he not deny that he lost money and that was his reason to try and recover his losses by returning to play rugby when the reports surfaced.
He instead came up with a vague explanation that he lost money in a financial deal that went sour.   Why not claim damages from his "friend" if that was what actually happened?
However, that is not the main issue here.   I t was the performance of Matfield that is the issue here.   Matfield was poor as a player and even though you said that the examples mentioned is my impression of his performance - the facts are clear - he was useless playing rugby when he actually was way past his sell-by date.   
      

 Haaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaa!!!
Yeah ... I can see it!!!
Dumb Ass also says that a poor performance by a rugby player is all a matter of interpretation. 
I choked on my coffee when I read that yesterday.
Example ... "He dropped the ball and it spilled forward bringing play to a halt" ... 
or did he 
... could it not have been that "he let the ball deliberately fall and it hit a hard protruding clump of grass on the field which propelled the ball forward, giving everyone the impression that is was knocked on ... but in fact it wasn't ... "
The ref's interpretation was wrong.  
Dumb Ass must surely be competing with Baboon-ou for the boards biggest ... well ... dumb ass.

Mike 
Here is the issue
You changed the subject from Matfield's performance on the field, to him being helped out by our national rugby coach because they are great mates.
In other words, you stated that even if Matfield was a sh!t player at the time, Meyer chose him anyway because he was battling financially and Meyer rather chose the best interests of a mate, over the best interests of SA Rugby at the time.
This is how I read you post
Do you deny this was the intention of your post ?

Rooinek
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 3254RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 08:32:25

There goes Dumb Ass on one of his sanctimonious tirades again!

You can almost picture this cyber-equivalent of a class monitor with one hand on his hip and the other pointing a finger that is trembling with self-righteous indignation.

We'd better all be on our best behaviour!

LMAO!

I know it's probably your 3rd beer already Rooinek
Take it easy bro.... it's a long day  

CC
Simple question........
Do you agree with everyone else's assessment, interpretation, analysis of a player's performance in any sport, never mind rugby.....
No you don't.....
Enough said 
You just make yourself look more stupid everyday
How you may assess or interpret great sportsmanship or gamesmanship by any sports person may be completely different to mine

DA 
It never was the intention - what M atfield did with his money is not pertinent - the only point I made is that he lost money and that was the real  reason to start playing again.
What was pertinent was the fact that he should never have returned to play rugby again.  He damaged his reputation and that is what is the real point.  His performances were at best below par - a player who let down his team constantly as he turned the Springboks and Bulls Tight 5 to a Tight 4 and thus affect the dominance of the team up front.  He also fouled up in critical matches - and I gave examples of that - which you tried to ignore by some vague comments about interpretation.  It was not and that is an unfortunate fact.
Matfield should never have returned to play rugby and if it was any other coach than Meyer he would never have been considered as a test lock and Ludeke did the same insofar as the Bulls are concerned.   The Bulls did reasonably well in 2013 in Super 15 and in 2014 and 2015 they were poor when Matfield came into their Super 15 team.
Last year in the last game Matfield played on Super 15 level they lost against the Rebels. This year the Bulls easily beat the Rebels - a typical example of what damage was done by playing Matfield in games.  

 Rubbish!!!!!
Interpreting rugby law is based on your understanding of it's application. It can be a little confusing at times and the refs have often taken flack for getting it wrong.
There is no such thing as "interpreting" whether a rugby player had a bad day at the office or not. He either did ... or he didn't. One simply has to open your eyes and watch him play. 
It's a universal concept that most fans seem to have grasped ... except you, Dumb Ass.
Did he come in from the side or not? No interpretation needed. 
Did he pass the ball forward or not? No interpretation needed. 
Did he take the man high or not? No interpretation needed.
Was he offside or not? No interpretation needed.
Was he useless in the tight loose? No interpretation needed. 
The fact that Matfield was poor on the field the majority of the time was noted by most across the globe. Most commented on his age and that he seemed 5m behind the pace. Most suggested he resume his retirement based on what they saw him do on the park.

No interpretation needed for any of it.
Matfield should not have been there at all ... and the only reason he was is because of his friendship with Meyer.
Kapeesh??

 
  

 wee sissy is having a bit of a rant According to him no need for tmo, ref reviews, etc. all simple to the simple minded.

Incompetence generally permeates a system.

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21786RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 09:12:40

the only point I made is that he lost money and that was the real  reason to start playing again.

Bullsh!t Mike, explain this post below then ...................
I have underlined and highlighted where you fall a bit short on your reasoning or explanation above
What were these personal circumstances then that was the base of his inclusion?
Not your intention my A.S.S
clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21786RE: What was it we heard about Victor
March 07, 2016, 09:30:00

Matfield's returning to play was reputedly because of a loss of money in a Ponzi scheme - and that was not a sound reason for such a return, since it was based on personal cir[removed]stances not related to excellence in rugby and was helped along by his friendship with Meyer

CC
Why are you trying so hard to look so bloody stupid in front of all your buddies.
I will make it very simple for you ....... In fact..... incredibly simple for you
Please just post the dictionary meaning of interpretation
Thank you 

Klown, have a little think about the fact that you're trying to discuss rugby issues with a dull-witted rugby noob like Dumb Ass.

That's all.

 DA
Utter BS by you.  I actually repeated in two posts the treason fpr Matfield's return to playing rugby - and both times emphasized the fact that rugby performance had nothing to do with his return.
You keep on harping at that issue - but iognoren the most pertinent point - namely hios performance in games in 2014 and 2015.   That performance deficiencies is what I highlighted a number of times - with no response from you other than a vague reference to impression.   
I clearly stated that if Meyer was not the coach Matfield wopuld never even have been a consideration as a test player and the same applied to Ludeke as a Super Rugby player.  He was too poor to be considered on merit for selection - had to be based on something else - Meyer justified his selection on the following statement he often used when questioned about controversial selections - of which Matfield was the most prominent one -  "I know what he is capable of"  - for getting that the capabiolity was in 2007 and 2008 and not applicable to 2015.   
Ludeke was also a "fan" of Matfield - whose departure as attacking coach of the Bulls followed a release from his coaching contract after the Bulls got rid of Ludeke.  The ugly part of it was that reputedly Matfield carried tales to Ludeke and the players in the squad disliked him intensely because of that. 
Favouritism in rugby is an abomination and to ignore it is equally bad.  One of the main reasons for the fall of Meyer and dismissal of Ludeke was the favouritism they displayed to some players - and Matfield featured prominently in both cases.   Favouritism replaced the requirements attached to performance and that is where both Meyer and Ludeke was in reality fired.          

 I've read the article that quoted from Vic's book. Apparently JW called a meeting between Vic, Meyer and himself, to resolve some issues. JW accused Vic of being arrogant and disruptive and to his surprise,  Meyer told him that Jake had a point/case. Vic was a great lock and servant of Bok rugby, but he was also a disruptive influence and his ego was a problem even back in the day when Jake was Bok Boss. I see no reason why it would have become less of a problem in later years....Having said that, this might have been the problem for some other Bok greats too. I recall a report of a spat between JdV and John Smith where Jean used his fists in a fight with John on the team bus.

Back to the point. If anybody has any evidence Victor came back because he needed the money and HM accommodated his buddy....post it. If not it would be nice if we don't engage engage in slander on this Board.

 Meyer wanted him, hos ego made it easier AND he obviously could have done with the paycheck, regardless of bad investments.  Mike is reading too much into this. All n all Vic was still reluctant to come back.

 That was in a newspaper report and Matfield never rebutted it.  The fact that Meyer selected his buddies have been proved over and over again.
However, that is not the issue - the issue is his performance and the fact that he was too poor to have been in the Springbok side since 2014.  So how come he was selected?  

The newspaper report only you saw Tokkie. And it is the issue....it's an attack on the integrity of two decent chaps without any proof.  If you have proof...produce it.

 I am not going to argue about this issue - it was widely stated in the media in 2014 and if you want to you can go through the report on the issue.  
Meyer lost the plot completely with his selections and that is not an attack on his integrity.   It is a fact that his justification for selections has always been what I have quoted above and that he took no interest in actual performance of the players he actually preferred.   
That is why he fell on his own sword ultimately - he could not explain away his selections - of which Matfield was a major flop. 

 

 Mr Brain's faggots...are they still available?

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21800RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 15:36:14

 DA

Utter BS by you Mike, help me out then one last time then, since I am talking BS
What do you mean by this statement below?
it was based on personal cir[removed]stances not related to excellence in rugby

What personal circu.mstances were these that you mentioned here that Meyer took into account when bringing Matfield back?

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21800RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 17:17:16

it was widely stated in the media in 2014

 Clearly it was widely reported............
Yet not one single individual media reference available to back this claim of yours up?
And you question the integrity of these two individuals !! , when your very own integrity is being shown up for what it really is, unless you can back up your "so far" baseless claim 

 Hell - what a lot of baloney about a coach who fell on his own sword because he failed in the most basic of functions - ie to develop rugby in SA - because he refused to select players on performance merit and a player who has no future in SA rugby and will never again be in the Springbok team because he was a failure over the past two years.
I will not respond to rubbish about the disgraced two in future.   They both are past tense and the protection of the two is more of an egg removal exercise than anything else.  

   
 

 Moz, he said he paid to save face...might have been too much for his ego to face that kind of gossip in the media , or he gave a guarantee and was liable to cough up the moolaa.... , or he did the right thing and paid for his error in judgement. ..hope its the latter.

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21802RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 19:32:59

I will not respond to rubbish about the disgraced two in future.   They both are past tense and the protection of the two is more a egg removal exercise than anything else.  

 Translated, this means.....
I screwed up badly, I slandered two innocent individuals and I got this horribly horribly wrong
I won't say sorry, because I know, and only I know, that the evidence is out there somewhere..... in the immense expanse of the media world.........but nobody at all can find it
Just like that 100% certified claim from yesterday that Elvis was seen last week serenading Frank Sinatra on Hollywood boulevard..... Struuuthhh  

I recall reading that Meyer asked him to come out if retirement ............. his country needed him . "Ek sal antwoord op jou roepstem, ek sal offer wat jy vra" .

Sies ouMaaik, calling the legend a disgrace, not nice ............. he might, along with Morne, be your least favourite Bok but please stop the vitriol . Especially when its unrelated to rugby .

Klop Blob 

 I did not call Matfield a disgrace - he disgraced himself when he came back from retirement to play rugby and spoiling his good name in the process.   There is a huge difference in calling him a disgrace and a person disgracing himself by his own actions.
   

 I did not call Matfield a disgrace - he disgraced himself when he came back from retirement to play rugby and spoiling his good name in the process.   There is a huge difference in calling him a disgrace and a person disgracing himself by his own actions.
   

blobbok
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1515RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 21:05:07

Sies ouMaaik, calling the legend a disgrace, not nice ............. he might, along with Morne, be your least favourite Bok but please stop the vitriol . Especially when its unrelated to rugby .

 Yebo Blob..... agreed

clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 21808RE: Sounds like the Victor " ponzi" scheme...illustrates his inherent decency
March 08, 2016, 19:32:59

 a coach who fell on his own sword

Maybe you should try this...................

When Meyer recalled Matfield I think the intention was that he'd be utilised mainly in a mentoring & support capacity, ideally used from the bench,but with the laaities, Etsebeth, De Jager & Du Toit all unavailable cos they suffered severe injuries, Matfield, gawd bless him, played a more prominent role. I reckon our results during that period would've been a lot worse without him .

 Klop again Blob.

 It was bad enough with Matfield - he buggered up the Tight 5 and the list of losses grew.   I gave a list of bugger-ups Matfield made and am not going to repeat it here.  He caused  a number of losses and came near jeopardizing of wins.
One of the things I am most  grateful about is that we have been released from not having either Meyer and Matfield as a cross to bear in SA Rugby,  They are both gone and SA Rugby can now move forward from where it has stagnated while those two were around.