AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
30 Mar 2015, 02:28#2
Matfield's win percentage at lock for the boks over the last 2 years vs Win percentage without Matfield
We have played 11 with Matfield, won 7, leaving us with a win percentage of: 63.6
We have played 14 without Matfield, won 12, leaving us with a win percentage of: 85.7
Now, saying this, I don't believe Matfield is solely responsible for that drop, I'm using this to prove how ridiculous it is to suggest what you're suggesting.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2015, 03:35#3
Well if there is no relationship between winning and your most important scoring position, why bother. Your argument is you can't blame Lambie solely. I agree, but over the course of 11 games his presence has not lifted the Sharks at home. Steyn by contrast was able to win in NZ. And when Lambie was brought back, the Sharks lost the S15 semi.
The Matfield example essentially compares 2013 to 2014... The basis for comparison is much weaker. For example in the Welsh test there were only five players who were carried over from 2013.... With that degree of team change you can't isolate Matfield amongst 10 changes.
I admit it's imperfect science, but a data point which asks a crucial question, can Lambie lift the Sharks overseas. If not is he a world cup winner?
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
30 Mar 2015, 03:51#4
Like I said both comparisons are very, very weak. There's so much more going on in these games than these two players.
I think Lambie is a good fly half, a good game manager with a bit to learn still. Steyn is a hardened professional, also decent at fly half. Steyn is much better at centre though, where I think we need him for the Boks (even if just as a squad player)
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2015, 04:11#5
The in season comparison is the one a coach has to make every week....does the team have a better chance of winning with player A or player B. In 2014 the numbers suggested Steyn was the better option.
So how did the Boks do under Lambie on the YE tour? In the time he was on the park
We lost to Ireland 13 to 5
We beat England 31 to 28
We beat Italy 8 to 6
We lost to Wales 12 to 6
In aggregate we trailed 59 to 50 when he was on.
When he was off we led 14 to 6.
Not a precise calculation, this is just inference. But there is no evidence that I can find that Lambie raises winning percentages as a starting flyhalf. It will be interesting to see if he can lift on the NZ leg.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 04:42#6
This is the worst kind of theoretical calculation that anyone could ever dream up as it assumes that the only player impacting on the outcome of the games are the flyhalf - the performance of the rest of the players are of no consequence. Since rugby is a team game this is really BS.
Steyn was the worst flyhalf imaginable last year for the Sharks since he killed the backline and there hardly - despite the win on Saturday - could have been a worst display of flyhalf performance imaginable than was put in by Steyn. Horrible stats confirms that as well - it indicated poor defense, horrible decision-making and consequently ball possession losses, kicking away of everything - even turnover ball. Nobody ever last year called Steyn's performances at flyhalf anything other than him being a stand-in flyhalf.
Lets put it bluntly - despite the totally inept performance by Steyn on Saturday the Sharks did manage to beat the weak Western Force. Against any stronger team there would have been a loss because - as Chippo put it - of the Sh!t performance of Steyn. A single player does not win games - but a single player can lose games by constant mistakes and handing over of ball possession to the opposition - Steyn was an expert in doing just that on Saturday.
However, what else than this type of rubbish can be expected of a member who made the absolutely clueless and ridiculous statement that 90% of the functions of a flyhalf is kicking balls.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2015, 04:52#7
Say Moronic have you figured out what the probability of three consecutive heads is? Or are you still working on it?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 06:46#9
The one-incident junk at it again - but the constant junk by players Mozart prefers is never mentioned.
Now lets quote one example from the above. "Wales have started to get on top and they are captialising now."
Wales got on top in the first instance through their Tight 5 - SA preferred to play a Tight 4 combination and it ultimately counted in that match. Wales had 53% territory advantage.
In any event who wrote that version of events mentioned under minute 54 when Lambie knocked on the ball? The knock-on occurred halfway between the Wales 22 and the halfway line. A scrum was formed on that spot. Did Halfpenny make a 55 to 60 meter penalty conversion because of a scrum penalty?
So who gave away penalties in that game in any event:-
* Le Roux - 2* Hendriks - 1* Reinach - 1* Bismarck - 1* Oosthuizen - 2* Etzebeth - 2* Matfield - 1* Vermeulen - 1
I did not notice Lambie's name as one of the players conceding a penalty - but I did notice that 7 of the 11 penalties were given away by forwards. Matter of fact only one of the backline penalties were converted by Wales - the other three conversions came from the 7 penalties given away by the forwards. The penalty given away by Matfield was one of the three converted ones.
However, the question is why all the forward penalties and the answer is simple - the forwards were under pressure.
So the BS - blame Lambie for the loss - and forget about the poor performances of players like Mohoje, Matfield and some of the other forwards.
Mozart always identifies blame based on the following - simplistic minds produces simplistic answers.
30 Mar 2015, 10:28#10
You cannot make th!s shit up.
The same clown who has been hammering us for ages with "the Ellis Park" test - and he interpreted that totally wrong as well - is crapping himself over "one incident" posting.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 10:38#11
Dofdoos nr 2
What is the following about:-
"The same clown who has been hammering us for ages with "the Ellis Park" test - and he interpreted that totally wrong as well - is crapping himself over "one incident" posting."
Which test are you talking about - the 2014 one or the 2013 one. If you refer to one incident where I was wrong - fine - I admit one error - but for the rest I was 100% correct. The most important incident in that test was when Whitelock took a line out ball thrown at Matfield and the AB's scored a try that could have been the winning try for them. That was an important case - the others were minor.
In the case of the 2013 test I was 100% correct - both Steyn and Alberts were crap. In the case of the 2014 test the crap role was taken over by Matfield.
However, this was not the topic under discussion - so lets gert back to the topic. Francois was 'sh !t poor on Saturday and Dofdoos no 1 is trying to cover up the BS by all means possible. That is the issue in this case - the rest of Mozart's rambling is of BS quality to.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
30 Mar 2015, 10:46#13
APD you are spot on re Matfield he is a liability and we have started losing the physical battles and games against the major sides since Matfields return to the Boks
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 10:54#14
Dave
If ever there was a complete hash made at 10 - it was on Saturday. Yet Mozart said elsewhere that Steyn was apart from the kicking game "good" - so we still have a total misrepresentation on his part.
30 Mar 2015, 10:57#15
Ag Ou Maaikie. Just as expected, the point went right over your flat head......... again.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Mar 2015, 14:22#18
What Steyn yields in subtle kicking at 10 he makes up for with power. And then there is is his defence which blocks up 10 channel and denies the offload. If he was given a stint at 10 his few rusty spots would disappear. Hell Dave that's your argument. Give the man a chance.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 14:39#19
Mozart
Are you bloody funny? Last year the stats of Fransie playing at 10 was horrible - even worse than when he played at 12. His stats this year at 12 was poor again and even his improved stats on Saturday was 8 tackles made - 2 missed - still a missed trackle ratio of 20%.
His average missed tackle ratio at flyhalf last year was touching on 30% - the 20% on Saturday was a slight improvement. However, to say " And then there is is his defense which blocks up 10 channel and denies the offload" is utter BS and wishful thinking.
Matter of fact - over the last year Steyn was the worst defending flyhalf in any SA franchise - so keep on dream ing and creating illusions.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Mar 2015, 16:06#23
BALLS - STEYN IS NO FLYHALF AND THAT IS A FACT.
He as Dave put it, does not have the software for the job. Because he is not a player who can read games and take prompt decisions benefiting the team optimally, he is a dead loss at flyhalf. His first reaction is to kick the ball - 90% aimlessly and inaccurately. He even kicked away turnover ball - when overlaps are clearly in evidence.+
Steyn is a player who does not know when to pass and when not to - and most of the times his passes are mostly not beneficial. He last year made the cardinal mistake of using skip passes when he should not - thus eliminating overlaps.
One good play in a year (making an inaccurate pass wide out that rolled on the grass, but led to a try being scored) of fairly regular flyhalf appearances - does not eliminate all the balls-ups he made during that year.
We have had the worst collection of flyhalfs since 2009 - Morne Steyn is as clueless as Francois Steyn - but since he is even worse than Morne, it was a godsend that he was not our flyhalf over the past ten years.
The mania is still in evidence - this is a rugby site - not a cricket one.
30 Mar 2015, 21:35#25
My word, Ou Maaikie has remembered to have another bash at Morne Steyn again. Wonder how long he is going to take to remember about the actual saviour of SA in the no 10 jersey...... that other chappy in France who cannot even get off the team bus without injuring himself. The one who, nowadays, gets 9 minutes off the bench if he is lucky.
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
30 Mar 2015, 23:44#26
Oumaaik, to help you get over em stressful Steyns .................
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 03:19#27
Dofdoos no 2
So what about Morne Steyn? When Plisson is not available - Morne sometimes get 6 minutes off the bench. At least Racing Metro plays one of the top flyhalfs in world rugby ahead of Goosen - you dim doos - while a youngster like Plisson (sometimes playing for France) is ahead of Morne.
Hell here we have a doos trying to appear clever.
31 Mar 2015, 10:36#28
Goosen was supposed to be the saviour of the Boks. The Messiah at no 10. The one who was going to become a star in France and win us the RWC. He is the up and coming youngster and Morne Steyn is in the twilight of his career.
In any case..... are you sure that you would not like to revisit your "6 minutes off the on bench" idea, before I give you the facts. The only reason Iam asking is because there is no more place to dump any egg. You would have to phone a friend to take the hit on your behalf.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 11:07#29
Dofdoos 2
Here is the Steyn record in the match on Saturday last week:-
Steyn0/000/0/0000001/00/000/0
31 Mar 2015, 11:19#30
Forget the little string from one game, where he played 9 minutes. Get back to the 6 minutes per game that you were talking about, or would you prefer me to just dump the load of eggs without any warning?
BTW. Here are his stats from the previous game when he started and played the full 80 minutes :
Grenoble:FHSteyn0/1611/33/62400004/30/010/0
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 11:25#31
Dofdoos 2
Steyn only really gets starting selectrion if Plisson or Mallett is injured or unavailable, because he is absolutely worthless in games.
31 Mar 2015, 11:35#32
Keep on talking. The egg delivery truck is on its way, mate. Steyn gets the 10 starting berth when Plisson is away. Goosen does not get the 10 starting berth, even when Se.xton is away.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Mar 2015, 11:44#33
Dofdoos
Are you completely stupid - Goosen was injured in December - January - something you were not even aware of. Since then S exton played in all Top 14 matches and Goosen was mostly on the bench.
31 Mar 2015, 12:16#34
I was fully aware of that p@epol. That was when he did not even make it off the tour bus.
The little bit of detail that you would not like to take note of is that Goosen has played a few games at FB for RM and he has had quite a good game every time that he played there.
He has had three full games at FB and four full games at FH and his games at FB have all been his better games. You crapped yourself, last year, when he played FB for the first time, and I said that he could start finding himself at FB more often. I would not be surprised if he is gradually being converted into a FB which, IMO, is were he belongs.
31 Mar 2015, 20:29#35
Looks like ou Maaikie has wisely decided to step away from this discussion.
05 Apr 2015, 22:09#37
Hey ou Maaikie. Guess whose stats these are?:
0/0
0
1/1/2
3
0
3
0
0
0/1
0/0
0
0/0
He got 23 minutes this time. Only difference is that he had to be content with being out on the wing. Looks like he did his best to avoid any tackling as usual. The single attempt ended up in a balls-up, by all accounts as well. With 3 metres from 2 runs, it seems safe to say that wing isn't his position either. Looks like he still seems better suited for the fullback position.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Apr 2015, 23:43#38
This fantasy has run it's course.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Apr 2015, 02:05#39
Anyway
As per normal the two dofdose Mozart and Ceradunce managed to steer this threat from discussing Steyna and Lambie to discussing Goosen. Their normal routine when caught out peddling BS.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Apr 2015, 02:25#40
Okay let's talk about Lambie's first kick at goal......which sucked the self confidence out of the Sharks and wee Lambie. One more Lambie game, one more Sharks loss.
