FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Ten critical factors at the RWC ranked in order of importance.

Ten critical factors at the RWC ranked in order of importance.

Started by Mozart53 REPLIES704 VIEWS· 13 Dec 2014, 22:42
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2014, 22:42
#1
13 Dec 2014, 22:42#1

Here's my list in order of priority.....feel free to produce your own.

 

1. Goal kicking

 

2. Tactical kicking

 

3  Defence.

 

4. Penalty avoidance

 

5.  Set pieces

 

6. Contest on the ground

 

7. Mauls

 

8. Attack from turnovers

 

9. Drop kicks

 

10. Attack from set pieces and phase play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Dec 2014, 22:44
#2
13 Dec 2014, 22:44#2
 I would place drop goals at 4. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Dec 2014, 22:48
#3
13 Dec 2014, 22:48#3
Yep if you looked at the Bargie/France game.....you have to conclude everybody got a timely reminder.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
13 Dec 2014, 22:51
#4
13 Dec 2014, 22:51#4

Good list Mozart, you can add patience when on attack, recognising opportunities, decision making, adaptability to referee and ability to read the match situation.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Dec 2014, 22:56
#5
13 Dec 2014, 22:56#5
 Variation on attack. We need to keep them guessing.  Our worst games this year was when we ran everything at all cost. Stupid.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:02
#6
13 Dec 2014, 23:02#6

 " Variation on attack"



Yes please.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:08
#7
13 Dec 2014, 23:08#7
 BB, that actually means the odd kick here and there.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:15
#8
13 Dec 2014, 23:15#8

I have nothing against an attacking kick with a goal to regain possession in mind.


Never have, I am tired if mindless kicking because there is no alternative considered.  

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:22
#9
13 Dec 2014, 23:22#9
 Agreed on that BB, what irks me most about our rugby is the fact that its always either senseless kicking or almost no kicking. The bombs have their place as does grubbers, but IMO a chip kick over the defensive line has the best oportunity to regain position,  yet we rarely, if ever see our guys doing it. WHY!!!!
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:27
#10
13 Dec 2014, 23:27#10
Because they don't practice it.  
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
13 Dec 2014, 23:48
#11
13 Dec 2014, 23:48#11
Or because their Coach doesn't explicitly tell them they should do it ? They are programmed, you see    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2014, 01:03
#12
14 Dec 2014, 01:03#12
 BB add to what Mozart wrote about the above requirements - but there  is a key reuirment not added and that is to select players capable of executing properly the requirements as listed.
Any proiority list starting off with kicking as top priority is utterly wrong - as it sets down kicking as the main requirement for teams to execute.    Kicking at goal is probably a number 9 prioriity - since it depends ntirely on whether the team gets penalties in making goal kicking possible.   Kicking out of hand should be clarified to avoid aimless and inaccurate kicking for the sake of kicking.    
I would raher prioritise the following:-
1  Set piece efficiency2  Reading of the game and consequential proper decisionmaking3   Ball handling skills4   Kicking on objective basis5   Takle ball protection and revoery6   Ball turnovers 7   Maul efficiency8   Defense9   Ability to score tries10  Accurate goal kicking         
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,286 posts
14 Dec 2014, 01:10
#13
14 Dec 2014, 01:10#13
1. Ability to adapt to breakdown for each referee2. Defense3. Territorial kicking game4. Penatly kicking5. Scrums6. Lineouts7. Mauls
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2014, 01:53
#14
14 Dec 2014, 01:53#14
 Sharkbok
With die respect - the so-called terrtorial kicking game went out years ago.    The emphasis should be on strategic and objective kicking - coupled to defsive kicking when in their own 22.    
Problem with kicking is that teams have counter-strategies that nullifies most kicking - so kicking is a variation of startegies with specific objectives in mind.   Should never evr be a basic requirement for winning WC games - rather a supplememtary strategy.   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2014, 01:53
#15
14 Dec 2014, 01:53#15
 Sharkbok
With die respect - the so-called terrtorial kicking game went out years ago.    The emphasis should be on strategic and objective kicking - coupled to defsive kicking when in their own 22.    
Problem with kicking is that teams have counter-strategies that nullifies most kicking - so kicking is a variation of startegies with specific objectives in mind.   Should never evr be a basic requirement for winning WC games - rather a supplememtary strategy.   
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Dec 2014, 08:19
#16
14 Dec 2014, 08:19#16
 Mike, even NZ regularly kick for territory all the time. It's the useless up and under bombs that irritates the hell outa me.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Dec 2014, 08:41
#17
14 Dec 2014, 08:41#17
DBDraad
 I do not think that NZ kicks for territory  they make strategic and accurate kicks - when they do kick for territory is when they are in their own 22 and wants to get out of the danger area.   
Kicking for territory outside of their own 22 just does not happen.    It is wise not to use the term kicking for territory.   When aimless kicks are made outside of the 22 of the tea - it normally means one thing - turnover in possession.   Kicking just for the sake of kicking is lunacy in rugby.   
By the way - the time when players could make long distance kicks for territory went out with the change of the laws that kicks from outside a teams 22 directly into touch result in line outs directly opposite from where the kicks were launched - a heavy price to pay for aimless kicking.
Look - I am not against kicking as a variation in backline play - but there are serious limitations to aimless kicking and the impact it has on games.    It normally is negative and very costly to the teams that transgress through constant aimless kicking.     As an example I have to refer to for instance the kicking game of the Steyns at flyhalf - they fumble more kicks than any other players at flyhlf I have ever seen.
Lets rather stick with the term strategic kicking - with the provisio that the kickingmust be accurate as well.  
   
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Dec 2014, 11:09
#18
14 Dec 2014, 11:09#18
 Mike, all kicks are strategic, sometimes its just kak strategy :-), but point taken.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:14
#19
16 Dec 2014, 14:14#19
Kicking serves several uses and I will list a few of them:
  1. It keeps the ball ahead of your pack.
  2. It turns defences around. If you have mobility and speed it can cause chaos as the defensive line loses it's structure scrambling backwards.
  3. You pressure opponents for the aerial battle.
  4. They may win the ball back, but have lost ground and now have to contend with pressure at the ensuing ruck if chasers were doing their jobs.
  5. If you want to contain a superior backline, you can field an up-and-under just behind their midfield. This condenses their backline whilst applying considerable pressure as the outside-in defence shuts off the outer channels. With a big pack this single strategy can and has proven fatal for many teams, even New Zealand. 
  6. Control an opponents field position. At Ellis Park in 2013 New Zealand would kick well outside of the 22 to pin us back and we ran everything and conceded the inevitable turnovers. Their superior field position took the sting out of our attack and gave them the platform to capitalize from turnover ball. So sad we replicated a strategy New Zealand abandoned after the 2009 whitewash.
In short, tactical kicking - which can happen in ANY part of the field - is a deadly tactic if utilised correctly. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 14:21
#20
16 Dec 2014, 14:21#20
 Card, welcome back I trust you are well. Your help is needed on THIS thread. I was wondering if you have some video footage and info on the 1986 5Nations team vs The Overseas  Unions game played on April 19 methinks.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 15:12
#21
16 Dec 2014, 15:12#21
 Letsallbemorns
Nice lecture on tactical kicking which should be use as a variation in play - not the only play.   There are serious limits to kicking games and the most important one is to make sure that the kicking is in fact tactical and accurate.
In essense there is a problem in the kicking game on the part of South African and that is the fact that most of their kicking is anything but tactical or accurate, coupled to the fact that one-dimensional players like Morne and Francois Steyn are dead losses in the kicking game as well.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 15:19
#22
16 Dec 2014, 15:19#22

If you can't get over the advantage line, you will eventually turn the ball over....giving your opponent their most productive possession. You can't get over the advantage line without beating tackles. When it's apparent this is not happening the smart scrumhalf, like F du Preez, kicks.

 

 

The Saffa fans then moan about the kicking....but they overlook the root cause....flaccid centre play and aimless running by loosies.

 

 

The only players who were exceptions this year for the Boks were Schalk and Jean. Schalk because he cleverly offloaded at the instant of committing the defence, providing productive running lanes. And Jean, because despite a tough year, he regularly road the first tackle for enough time to force the defence to step back.

 

 

Jean is now gone barring a miracle and Schalk's body is a miracle that could end in an instant. Where are their replacements? Coetzee and Steppie? Methinks not.

 

 

So with our resources we had better include the U&U game. Chip kicks when gobbled up are very dangerous....and Wales were totally reading every Lambie chip. Longer kicking is a neutral.

 

It's so simple....you can't win a running game without great centres and great running loosies. We have neither....so we are reduced to massive defence, counter attacks off turnover ball, kicking for territory, great goal kicking and the use of the drop. Do them well enough and we can win the RWC.

 

One reminder.....Hougaard's try of the Year, came from turnover ball.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 15:30
#23
16 Dec 2014, 15:30#23
 Moz, I think(hope might be the better word) De Alende will surprize us when given an extended run at 12. He's got it all but was never given the oportunity to settle in any position. I also hope that some or other 13 will step up big time in SR...pipedream, might be, but that's all that we've got.
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 15:46
#24
16 Dec 2014, 15:46#24
Lestat. Are you a Bulls fan ? Did you get a b0ner watching Interview with a Vampire and now you believe you are a vampire ? A vampire wiff a Hilux ?

The Boks have been 'mastering' their 'aerial game' under various boneheaded coaches similar to Heyneke Meyer since before you were spawned. Your sermon is no different from any other that has been preached from the pulpit of bonehead rugby (Pretoria headquarters) for all of history

This is one of the reasons the Springboks have never managed to hold onto the number 1 ranking in world rugby
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:05
#25
16 Dec 2014, 16:05#25
Balls.....let me guess, you think we are going to beat NZ at their own game?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:15
#26
16 Dec 2014, 16:15#26
 Ovalbulls
Welcome to th site - even though your comments about the Bulls will face strong opposition from some quarters.
To my mind the problem with the kicking game has all along been that some coaches regarded oit as the only game to be played and consequently the scrummies and flyhalfs donkey-kicked most of the time.   I use toihe term to descibe the inaccurate and aimless kicking that is the curse of  SA Rugby.
Unlike what some say - the fact is that some players have caused the death of backline play by SA teams and one has to just watch the games where players like Morne Steyn and  Francois Steyn are flyhalfs to realize how much damage is being done to backline play in SA.
The Sharks advised White to leave - because the public could not take the style of rugby played anymore and stayed away in their thousands.   If they won anything - then fine - but they ultimately came short - just like the Stormers did in 2011 and 2012.
The answer is obvious - kicking should not be the only game in  town and should be one of the options a scrummie or flyhalf has at his disposal after reading the game properly.   
However, if y ou say that - the retort will be that you are in favour of the wide - open passing game - a limitation in thinking ability so pobvious among some of our members.    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:15
#27
16 Dec 2014, 16:15#27
 Ovalbulls
Welcome to th site - even though your comments about the Bulls will face strong opposition from some quarters.
To my mind the problem with the kicking game has all along been that some coaches regarded oit as the only game to be played and consequently the scrummies and flyhalfs donkey-kicked most of the time.   I use toihe term to descibe the inaccurate and aimless kicking that is the curse of  SA Rugby.
Unlike what some say - the fact is that some players have caused the death of backline play by SA teams and one has to just watch the games where players like Morne Steyn and  Francois Steyn are flyhalfs to realize how much damage is being done to backline play in SA.
The Sharks advised White to leave - because the public could not take the style of rugby played anymore and stayed away in their thousands.   If they won anything - then fine - but they ultimately came short - just like the Stormers did in 2011 and 2012.
The answer is obvious - kicking should not be the only game in  town and should be one of the options a scrummie or flyhalf has at his disposal after reading the game properly.   
However, if y ou say that - the retort will be that you are in favour of the wide - open passing game - a limitation in thinking ability so pobvious among some of our members.    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:15
#28
16 Dec 2014, 16:15#28
 Ovalbulls
Welcome to th site - even though your comments about the Bulls will face strong opposition from some quarters.
To my mind the problem with the kicking game has all along been that some coaches regarded it as the only game to be played and consequently the scrummies and flyhalfs donkey-kicked most of the time.   I use t he term to descibe the inaccurate and aimless kicking that is the curse of  SA Rugby.
Unlike what some say - the fact is that some players have caused the death of backline play by SA teams and one has to just watch the games where players like Morne Steyn and  Francois Steyn are flyhalfs to realize how much damage is being done to backline play in SA.
The Sharks advised White to leave - because the public could not take the style of rugby played anymore and stayed away in their thousands.   If they won anything - then fine - but they ultimately came short - just like the Stormers did in 2011 and 2012.
The answer is obvious - kicking should not be the only game in  town and should be one of the options a scrummie or flyhalf has at his disposal after reading the game properly.   
However, if you say that - the retort will be that you are in favour of the wide - open passing game - a limitation in thinking ability so pobvious among some of our members.    
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:30
#29
16 Dec 2014, 16:30#29
@dumbassmike - Are you physically retarded, under educated in English or do you have issues with your keyboard ?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:35
#30
16 Dec 2014, 16:35#30
 I have issues with my key board - 
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 16:40
#31
16 Dec 2014, 16:40#31
@Mosquitofart. The kicking game certainly hasn't produced much has it ? Now with our newest 'up and under' coach things are really falling apart. I think the All Blacks let us beat them at Arab Emirates Airline Park

It was a brilliant ruse. A shard of tactical ingenuity that could not possible exist within the structures of boneheaded South African rugby. Despite losing to Ireland and Wales our boneheads still believe they can beat the All Blacks now which probably suits the men from Aotearoa perfectly !

Kia ora All Blacks ! Soon to become the first team to defend their world championship title


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:20
#32
16 Dec 2014, 17:20#32
 Balls for brains, think about it for a second. What kind of brilliant ruse relies on a guy who missed a kick in front of the poles the week before, landing a fifty metre kick to win....and make the ruse work. Are you a simpleton or just a Kiwi?
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 17:42
#33
16 Dec 2014, 17:42#33
@mosquitofart

I cant help you. In reference to your question, your opinion is laid bare from the waist down. It appears that you have suffered the misfortune of drinking from the tainted cup and your brain has thus already calcified to bonehead status.

That aside. Are you and dumbassmike boyfriend and girlfriend ? Your avatar looks remarkably 'fruity'





MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:14
#34
16 Dec 2014, 20:14#34
And your avatar looks cerebral?  But I have to concede Mike is mentally challenged.  I'm guessing there never was much there, and most of that has gone. As you might guess "Clever" is a a self assigned adjective.
What are your affiliations in rugby?
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:28
#35
16 Dec 2014, 20:28#35
@ Mosquitofart

Cerebral ovary ? Interesting...my avatar is actually Will Ferrell. The funniest man alive. I quite like cerebral ovary though and I am sure he would to. Thanks for that contribution.

Regarding dumbassmike - I apologize, it was never my intention to poke fun at someone genuinely afflicted by mental r e t a r d a t i o n. He can use the internet though so it appears he is a partially functional spastic r e t a r d at least.

Internationally I back the Springboks although it is beyond excruciatingly painful to do so at present. Supporting the Springboks currently is a bit like leopard crawling naked through a forest of stinging nettle trees thickly infested by poison ivy.

I also cant bear the torture that is the local South African junk and so I dont really have a provincial affiliation. If I was held at gunpoint, it would be the Lions.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:36
#36
16 Dec 2014, 20:36#36
 Mozart
As long as your emphasis is on kicking - you are a dead duck.   Your asessment of player performances are also way off Burger and Jean being the outstanding players is a load of tripe.   Jean did squat this year - him beating a defender was so rare - it is unbeleivable - he did fall forward when tackled - but that really is not of much value.   
The players who made a difference this year was Pollard, Reinach and a few of the younger guys - the geriatrics were all massively down on their performances of last year.    And then we have the physical deficient Matfield - contributing to the fact that our Tight 5 was not comeptitive.    
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:44
#37
16 Dec 2014, 20:44#37
@dumbass mike

Jean fell forward every time he was tackled ? WTF !? I wonder if he has had an ENT doctor inspect his vestibules ? Sounds like major balance issues.

Your message contained far fewer spelling errors. Still some work to do but much much better.




SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Dec 2014, 20:57
#38
16 Dec 2014, 20:57#38
 Ovalballs........I think we should get engaged!!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Dec 2014, 21:28
#39
16 Dec 2014, 21:28#39
 Oval, I'm a Farrel fan myself, but naming a "funniest man on the planet" is way too subjective. Bill Murray has hid moments, as does Jim. For laughs I still can't get enough of "Coupling" and "Only Fools and Horses".
So are you a horse or a fool?
OV
OvalBallsRookie95 posts
16 Dec 2014, 22:42
#40
16 Dec 2014, 22:42#40
@Draadtrek

You are welcome to enjoy the purveyance of comedy from whichever source you prefer.  I will not dispute your choices which appear healthy (if not slightly on the antique side).

In all honesty I quite enjoy performances from Seann William Scott otherwise known as Steve Stifler, John Reilly, Zach Galifianakis, Russel Brand, Fred Armisen and Seth Rogen....amongst others. To me however there is nobody funnier than Ferrell.

The last time I was with your mom, she compared me to a horse for some reason. So out of the two options you offer - I will go with horse.
↓ LOAD MORE (page 2 of 2)

More from Rugby

More news