FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  The abuse of De Allende and Kriel on this site

The abuse of De Allende and Kriel on this site

Started by clevermike31 REPLIES720 VIEWS· 09 Oct 2015, 03:37
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:37
#1
09 Oct 2015, 03:37#1
After all the baseless allegations by Mozart and the negative comments on especially De Allende by DF a quite different opinion was expressed in the following article from News24:-
 Among South Africa's batch of talented young players at this year's Rugby World Cup, inside centre Damian de Allende has emerged as the most influential in the pool stages.

De Allende claimed the man of the match award in South Africa's 64-0 rout of the United States on Wednesday, ahead even of hat-trick scorer Bryan Habana.

.

His prize was deserved for his creative play off young flyhalf Handre Pollard, but also a rock-solid defence that has become a feature of his game.


The 23-year-old has played a telling role in the Boks conceding just a single try in their last three World Cup matches -- and that an intercept effort by Scotland.


Despite his growing reputation, De Allende maintains he is still learning and working out how to get the best out of electric outside centre Jesse Kriel.


Their partnership has ensured the loss of experienced captain and centre Jean de Villiers through injury has not been a serious problem for the Springboks.


"It has been a good year for me, but I wouldn't say I am comfortable. Far from it," De Allende told reporters on Thursday.    The Bok youngsters at 10, 12 and 13 have been a major positive in a year that has had more lows than highs.


"It has been a good introduction to international rugby, and we do enjoy playing together, but we all know we still have a lot to learn," he said.


"Hopefully, we have long international careers in front of us, but right now we are just at the beginning and have a lot of progress to make still."


Pollard and Kriel play for the Bulls Super Rugby team, though the latter featured at fullback in 2015. De Allende turns out for the Cape Town-based Stormers.

"We've known each other for about a year and we enjoy each other's company away from the field too. That does help," De Allende said.


"Over the past year we have come a long way together. But while there has been a lot of growth, there's still a lot of improvement that can be done.


"We are a long way from feeling completely comfortable at this level of rugby."


The trio will be tested again when they meet Wales or Australia in the World Cup quarter-finals at Twickenham on Oct. 17.


It is clear that neither is a finished product and the fact that they are still on a learning curve - as stated quite categorically by De Allende - is encouraging and is indeed a positive.   


What is absolutely  clear is that Mozart's efforts to state that two missed tackles and his description of De Allende as tractoring is career-defining is absolute tripe to be dismissed with the scorn it deserves.   His latest comment that Kriel is physically deficient is equally at best nonsence of the first order.   


Where I - and as a fact most independent observers differ from DF is the issue of the physicality of De Allende.   He is a very strong ball carrier in traffic as well as outside of it - as is evidenced  by -


*   the fact that it normally takes two or even three tacklers to bring him down and he always manage to go forward in tackles;


*   the fact that he routinely beats more tackles than any other center at present plying his trade - in Super 15 this year he was the center with the highest number of line breaks and the highest number of tackles beaten in Super 15, and in the WC games he played in the numbers were equally impressive, namely 4 line breaks and 18 defenders beaten;


*    the fact that he is becoming more prominent in breakdown ball protection and recovery, as well as turnover recovery of balls is evidently only possible through physical strength  (he for instance made 3 such turnovers in the Scotland test)


Mozart is always harping on defense - and it is granted that there was room for improvement in the Aussie test in the RC - but the constant refrain is rubbish - since De Allende is making improvement in tackle deficiency in tests,


What was particluarly interesting for me was the constant reference by DF to Kuridrani as the best center at present.  In the two tests Kuridrani made 1 line break beating 2 defenders.   His tackle stats were also not at all impressive - namely 10 tackles made and 5 missed.   Not really top c;ass p[erformance on any account.


Be it as it may - it is clear that our future center combination would involve De Allende and Kriel and the jeremiads of Mozart in particular is based on nopthing but prejudice against the player.          

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:03
#2
09 Oct 2015, 04:03#2
Kuridrani created space for Folau to have setup a certain try in his first run. Quoting numbers is meaningless if you cannot assess what a player can and cannot do. 
If Damian falls for his hype his career is going to end the same way as Lambie. Many similarities to them. Damian has not been a force on defence. When has it been the case? He is rocked back in EVERY single tackle. He ends up on the floor clasping at ankles. 
As for Kriel, I haven't spoken very much about him, but I will say that he is no Jean as far as defensive organization is concerned. And his inability to stamp his authority on the USA is concerning. His failure to distribute is a worrying. He looks like a fullback, not a 13. But that's understandable, because he really is a fullback. But Kriel has been the more physical of the two; Kriel has done more of the punch running and landed far bigger hits. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:22
#3
09 Oct 2015, 04:22#3
 DF
You are entitled to your opinion - wrong as it has been proven time and time again.   I like your version of over-powered.  When it regularly two or even three players to tackle a player - he is not over-powered - matter of fact he is the one who over-poers opponents.
I do laugh at your constant statement about my ignorance.  However, other than you there has been no comment from players and ex-players. present players  and experts in the game agreeing with your opinion on De Allende.  So are they all wrong and only you correct?  
Are you sure that your admiration for Fransie Steyn not getting the better of you in this case?      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:34
#4
09 Oct 2015, 04:34#4
The facts are simple. Allende missed Kuridranii to lose the Aussie test. Kriel missed the tackle to lose the Japanese test..Darcy wrote an article explaining how he got it wrong.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:17
#5
09 Oct 2015, 05:17#5
 The facts are simple - you are talking BS as per normal.  The Aussies made 7 points because of your allegation - where did the other 17 points come from?  You are imbecilic and I do not expect any logic from you in response in any event.        
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:41
#6
09 Oct 2015, 05:41#6
AAC broke through Damian for a converted try. Kuridrani broke through Damian for a converted try. 14 points right there. Giteau broke through Damian as well and had Folau clean through for a try, but Folau fumbled the ball. That was 21 points on the table for Australia. If we play them again, do you think they will have forgotten this? Bad juju my friend .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:47
#7
09 Oct 2015, 05:47#7
 DF
That is a new one on the story of the match.  That breaking through of Ashley-Cooper is a new one I have not head\rd before.   Is it invention or the truth?


I am sorry =-- but i do unfortunately do not believe all your talks about defense - so lets leave it at that,  I did ask Mozart the question.  I want a response from that BSter and now you have taken my fun away from me enjoying his normal BS stories,     
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:48
#8
09 Oct 2015, 05:48#8
 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:53
#9
09 Oct 2015, 05:53#9
 Mozart 
A player can lose a test if he is poor while the rest of the team is up to standard - that makes BS coming from you so obviously idiotic.   Your insistence on single incidents in matches is so stupid it deserves no further comments. 
One can never believe anything you write on this site anyway - it is normally a mixture of ignorance and lies - so the less you write the better for your tarnished image.       
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:54
#10
09 Oct 2015, 05:54#10
Every potential opponent from here on out will be targeting our centre pair. If posters on this site have finally figured out we have a problem defensively in the centres...be sure the opposing coaches are laying their plans
One gets no sense of tactics from these two....they never try to make a deep tackle, Kriel never shoots forward to seal off the outside.....there is no defensive pressure, just hit and miss tackling. I think it's too late to teach them much at this point.

It is the single thing most likely to ruin our chances.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 06:15
#11
09 Oct 2015, 06:15#11
So they will target the center pair while all they have to do is and just walk over Matfield  and Morne Steyn.  Let me remind you in the last two tests Morne had a missed tackle ratio of 50%.  If they target anybody it would be Morne - not De Allende or Kriel.
What is amazing is that everybody who ever comment on the performance of De Allende value him as a player and give him credit for performances,  Mozart and DF reckons he is the worst center believable.   So who must we believe - players and ex-players on international level  and rugby career experts - or two members of this site with an obvious personal agenda?   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 06:28
#12
09 Oct 2015, 06:28#12
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 06:34
#13
09 Oct 2015, 06:34#13
 Ah the Matfield defense....dunce to pawn five. Look dope, nobody is saying Allende and Kriel don't have attacking potential. Nobody is saying they are the worst combination ....that would be Step and JJ. What schooled observers are noting is they aren't great tacklers, but more critically they aren't confident about positioning and commitment.
And this isn't nursery school it's the WC...they will be exploited, the question is only how badly.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 06:52
#14
09 Oct 2015, 06:52#14
South Africans have largely failed to convert fullbacks and wingers into centres, scrum halves and flyhalves. Therefore I am reluctant to endorse any attempt, particularly when a better specialist is present. 
Here's the takeaway message: Cheika formed his game plan to target Damian on the basis of Super XV analysis. His plan succeeded. So what do you suppose it means when they praise him? Not a lot. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 07:08
#15
09 Oct 2015, 07:08#15
DF
 Easy about Morne - he had 7 missed tackles out of 15 attempts in the Perth test and 1 missed tackle out of 1 attempt on Saturday.   Morne also missed 8 out of 15 tackle attempts in the Stade Francais Top 14 final.
So Morne is guaranteed to miss 50% or more of all his tackle attempts.
If a team targets a certain player than his team must see it and improve their cover to cater for such a targetted player(s) as a counter.  
I am afraid the story about physical deficiency in the case of De Allende does nto wash - there is continuous evidence to the contrary.
You are correct about the need for space creation by centers - the only center we have had for years to create space is De Allende si it does need to happen more than is found at present.   There was no other players ever attempting to do that.  Before you start and make that comment - definitely not Fransie - he never ever did that since 2011,  Maybe before - but not since 2011.                
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 07:20
#16
09 Oct 2015, 07:20#16
The Stade Stats are incorrect. I still have that game and reviewed it. He missed zero tackles, but he did struggle two or three times with the opposition 8 - a big Islander who even ran over Rougerie. As for Perth you didn't answer the question. Saying he is guaranteed to miss 50% of his tackles is a very stupid thing to say.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 07:51
#17
09 Oct 2015, 07:51#17
 Come now DF - the stats are not 100% incorrect as you claim.  Even Pakie stumbled when he was told he was incorrect and then discover two tackles he missed in the Aussie test.  I will accept a error one or even two on either side - but not a case where he player miss 8 missed tackles statistically - but found that he missed none.   Justy not on.  
You stare yourself blind at a few positives in Morne's case (basically his kicking at goal) and then missed all the negatives he produce regularly.        
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Oct 2015, 08:20
#18
09 Oct 2015, 08:20#18
 Mike I feel you are being mean to Dr Mozzz and my good friend the Card. We all know they are getting it hopelessly wrong!
Allende and Krile are already among the leading center pairs in the wo rld. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 08:45
#19
09 Oct 2015, 08:45#19
Beeno
I am very civil with Desert Fox - but Mozart insulted me so badly - he can go and jump off  bridge as far as I am concerned.
I was watching Boots&All this morning only - and head Butch James said that De Allende is the most likely player to be named SA Rugby Player of the Year this year.  Mozart and DF will flip lida if that happens.   
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
09 Oct 2015, 09:45
#20
09 Oct 2015, 09:45#20
OuMaaik don't get too precious with our newbie centres .............. players are virtually daily vilified & abused on this message board (in fact some of them have been victims for years) including distinguished Bokke like Matfield, Jannie, Morne, Alberts, Jean or Burger  ........... showing support for any of them earns you a gobfull from the usual suspects .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 11:19
#21
09 Oct 2015, 11:19#21
 blobbok
I do not like abuse of players.  That happens when generalizations or one incident in 10 matches is used to typify or career-define players.  If deficiencies became evident on a regular basis then anybody is correct and point it out.  
Where I think there is a problem where members in their own mind develop a image of the player and then continuously repeat it on the site even though available evidence indicates otherwise - that can also be classified as player abuse.  
I think it is very helpful if members indicate some observation about a player they have identified for discussion.
What is not helpful if a player has favourite players in the Springbok team and instead of providing evidence to support their favourites, they write inputs to denigrate potential  other candidates.   However this is where a lot of members - me included - fall flat on their faces.

In general inputs on players - etc should be restricted to public domsign  knowledge that would be interesting and helpful,    
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 13:17
#22
09 Oct 2015, 13:17#22
You accuse me of abusing players. Where and when have I "abused" a player? Please enlighten me. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
09 Oct 2015, 13:35
#23
09 Oct 2015, 13:35#23
I also found it amusing that the distributor of some of the nastiest abuse and insults towards players on this site starts a thread lamenting the abuse of players on this site. The thread could easily have been titled "The abuse of Frans Steyn and Willem Alberts on this site", or any of a host of other names.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 14:46
#24
09 Oct 2015, 14:46#24
 There be egg coming.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 15:00
#25
09 Oct 2015, 15:00#25
 To call Fransie Fat and Willem Alberts Fatter is unfortunately a correct description of their physical appearance - but what is really the issue is not only performance.  I more or less aside from the nicknames have been more concerned aboiut their performances in games than I was about their physical attributes and the lack of it is more a topic for discussion than anything else.   
Mozart is the other member who more generally dish out nicknames with a nastier connotation - since it has no bearing on the actual performnces of the players concerned.    he still cause De Jager Lomp - but then that egg has been dripping dow his face for months now.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 15:06
#26
09 Oct 2015, 15:06#26
 They say one gets used to bad odours.....that smells in your every day environment scarcely register after a while. No doubt this is how folks got through the malodorous days before antiperspirant.
So why do I still get a mental whiff of stale old codger mixed with skunk when Perv comes onto the Board?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 16:12
#27
09 Oct 2015, 16:12#27
 Poor effort - you should do better skunk.   
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
09 Oct 2015, 18:26
#28
09 Oct 2015, 18:26#28
 

Yeah ...anti De Allende , Kriel and Lambie gang headed by the devious jakkals...lolz Dog goes "woof"...the Barking dogs
Cat goes "meow" (die jakkals van die woes-steyn)
Bird goes "tweet"
And mouse goes "squeek"...
Cow goes "moo" Victor Matfield
Frog goes "croak"


the elephant goes "toot"
Ducks say "quack"....

And fish go "blub"
And the seal goes "ow ow ow"

But there's one sound
That no one knows
What does the fox say?

"Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!
Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!"
What the fox say?

"Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!
Wa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pow!"
What the fox say?

"Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho! Lambie and DA
Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho! Lambie and DA
Hatee-hatee-hatee-ho!" Lambie and DA
What the fox say?

"Joff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!
Tchoff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!
Joff-tchoff-tchoffo-tchoffo-tchoff!"
What the fox say?

Big blue eyes
Pointy nose
Chasing mice
And digging holes
Tiny paws
Up the hill
Suddenly you're standing still

Your fur is red
So beautiful
Like an angel in disguise
But if you meet
A friendly horse
Will you communicate by
Mo-o-o-o-orse?
Mo-o-o-o-orse?
Mo-o-o-o-orse?
How will you speak to that
Ho-o-o-o-orse?
Ho-o-o-o-orse?
Ho-o-o-o-orse?

What does the fox say?

"Jacha-chacha-chacha-chow!
Chacha-chacha-chacha-chow!
Chacha-chacha-chacha-chow!"
What the fox say?

"Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!
Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!
Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!"
What the fox say?

"A-hee-ahee ha-hee!
A-hee-ahee ha-hee!
A-hee-ahee ha-hee!"
What the fox say?

"A-oo-oo-oo-ooo!
Woo-oo-oo-ooo!"
What does the fox say?

The secret of the fox
Ancient mystery
Somewhere deep in the woods
I know you're hiding
What is your sound?
Will we ever know?
Will always be a mystery
What do you say?

You're my guardian angel
Hiding in the woods
What is your sound?
(Wa-wa-way-do, wub-wid-bid-dum-way-do, wa-wa-way-do)
Will we ever know? (Bay-budabud-dum-bam)
I want to (Mama-dum-day-do) I want to, I want to know!
(Abay-ba-da bum-bum bay-do)


Obviously it's a syndicate of anti Kriel, De Allende and Lambie "conspirasors" sic


Mozart's Requiem??

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 18:27
#29
09 Oct 2015, 18:27#29
 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 18:29
#30
09 Oct 2015, 18:29#30
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
09 Oct 2015, 18:48
#31
09 Oct 2015, 18:48#31
Intelligent criticisms like 

What does the fox say?

"Jacha-chacha-chacha-chow!
Chacha-chacha-chacha-chow!
Chacha-chacha-chacha-chow!"
What the fox say?

"Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!
Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!
Fraka-kaka-kaka-kaka-kow!"
What the fox say?

"A-hee-ahee ha-hee!
A-hee-ahee ha-hee!
A-hee-ahee ha-hee!"
What the fox say?

"A-oo-oo-oo-ooo!
Woo-oo-oo-ooo!"
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 19:30
#32
09 Oct 2015, 19:30#32
 Damn right 
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news