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FORUM / RUGBY /  The backline cupboard is bare

The backline cupboard is bare

Started by Mozart49 REPLIES493 VIEWS· 28 Nov 2014, 17:39
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2014, 17:39
#1
28 Nov 2014, 17:39#1

This year we have seen great glee among the perpetually thick Bok "fans" as Frans and Fury we're lost to the Boks. This opens the path for the youth brigade supposedly. At flyhalf we have Pollard a world class prospect, who will emerge as the winner in his contest with Lambie. But who else who could make an AB team.


Van Wyk....a good provincial wing


Move-ou ...a good player against weaker teams.


JJ...a fast player who doesn't enjoy contact


De Allende....a player with great physical assets, but no rugby brain


Stepfontein...not as talented as Meisiekind or Etiene Botha his look alike Bools


Reinach....another good runner, with below par technical skills


The most talented players out there are Kolbe and Senatla. Kobe may be too small as cross kicks emerge up north as the most potent tactic.But Senatla seems strong enough  and athletic enough to use his blinding speed and step. He is also a competitor unlike a passive player like JJ.



But taken in aggregate, flyhalf aside...we  have no new players  who might  make the AB team. Our older players are fading away, but in many cases are still better bets than this thin harvest of unimpressive newbies. This incredibly stupid notion that a centre combination of Step and JJ could be a positive in the RWC is tragically stupid.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 18:58
#2
28 Nov 2014, 18:58#2
 Mozart 
He has made n assessment and that means all BS  again - can he never do better? 
Now lets look at his statements:- 
"Van Wyk....a good provincial wing"
The giy has played well in Super 15 as well - so suddenly he is a good provincial wing - what baloney
"Move-ou ...a good player against weaker teams."

What is meant by weaker teams here?   He played well in Super 15 - and had the misfortune to play outside Francois Steyn,  thus getting minmal ball to play with.   Mozart had to say somet hing so he comes up with itter nonsense
"De Allende....a player with great physical assets, but no rugby brain"

This  guy has created more tries on Super 15 level than any other SA center or for that matter wing.     He has done exceptional off-laods and timing of his passes - but the board moron - who has no rugby brain whatsoever comes up with idiocy once again.
"Stepfontein...not as talented as Meisiekind or Etiene Botha his look alike Bools."

Have you gone dodgy or something?   What a load of BS not worth commenting about.
"Reinach....another good runner, with below par technical skills"

Utter crap - not worth commenting on.
Every time you write things on Board - think carefully if you can, because you every time you make yourslef looking an absolute fool because of your prejudice.
.   
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Nov 2014, 20:05
#3
28 Nov 2014, 20:05#3
 Hougaard and Pollard comprehensively outplayed their ab counterparts in SA. Hougaard isa different palyer once the shckles are taken off him. Unfortunately his handling of a greasy ball let him down agaisnt Ireland and he is toost is some people's minds.Serfontein is playing out of position but who can doubt his ability. What exactly did the wee abs achieve against Jan and Jean. Habana is still a class wing but coming to the end. Willie is better than anything the abs have. Man we ought to have won both tests aginst thme this year!
I am a Frans Steyn fan but he was way below what he used to be. Fourie also has come to the end. Why lament it - this is normal you cant go on forever. Frans seems to have injury problems. Wee mcaaaaw should take note as should Woodcock, Mealalmu, Conrad cart horse etc.  How good is mother nonu. Is the bent read failing?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2014, 20:05
#4
28 Nov 2014, 20:05#4
Dream on. Not one of those players would make Oz or NZ....not one of those players would have made our 2007 RWC team.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Nov 2014, 20:13
#5
28 Nov 2014, 20:13#5
 Neither the wobblies or abs have anything like Reinach or Pollard. Willie as well. 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
28 Nov 2014, 20:42
#6
28 Nov 2014, 20:42#6
 I would have liked to have seen Kolbe on tour as the backup fullback and wing. His size is not really a big issue as his tackling technique is better than many players a few KG bigger
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,293 posts
28 Nov 2014, 20:42
#7
28 Nov 2014, 20:42#7
 I would have liked to have seen Kolbe on tour as the backup fullback and wing. His size is not really a big issue as his tackling technique is better than many players a few KG bigger
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 21:28
#8
28 Nov 2014, 21:28#8
 Mozart
I would dearly locve to remind you of the four missed tackles of Francois Steyn in the 2007 RWC final - one of them nearly let to a English try.   Care to remember that one?  Or ebtte still can you recall a single instance in that whole competiton that Steyn made a line break?    
But thn - lets forget about th2007  WC and think of the 2011 WVC.   We went out early - because amongst others - our backline flopped and flopped badly.
However, you have a problem - the 2007 backline players is not there anymore and this year -
*   Jean de Villirs was poorer than Serfontein whn the latter was in the no 12 position;
*   Bryan Habana showed nothing of any substance int h RC and EOYT tests;
*   JP Pietersen is pace-wise not a shadow of the player he used to be - how he is still in the Springbok squad - heaven only knows; and
*   Francias Steyn was the past two years the worst Center flop in Super 15 - both in attacking and defending play.
*    Fourie du Preez is on the slide as well - in the tests he played ouver the last hyear he was very average in two games and seriouly defective in two - hesems to eb unable to play two games in a row without showing signs of tiredness.
So what do you want now - do you want to have the mentioned players in the 2015 WC squad because they were good - or in the case of  Steyn average - in the 2007 WC?    
It is better to forget what happened in teh 2007 WC - it is now 8 years later and the game changed drastically in that period.   That is admitted by all and sundrry who are more expert in rugby than you and I.
Both  Serefomntein and De Allende is still in the early phases of their careers as players - how do you know how they are going to develop in future?   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2014, 21:29
#9
28 Nov 2014, 21:29#9
Hasbeenou .....I'm not not arguing Pollard, he is in a different league. Reinach is inept, okay in a free flowing game...an issue in a RWC style test, where one mistake can decide the outcome. The rest are bog ordinary. We either nurse some of the old guys through the RWC or resume the search.
SB I like Kolbe a lot, but the cross kick is emerging as the weapon of choice inside the 22, especially when a penalty has been given. I'm  not sure he can survive that test.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2014, 21:56
#10
28 Nov 2014, 21:56#10
 As the Steyn flop in 2007 nearly decided that final in favour of the English.   
If one can only rely on your assessment of players then there may be some truth in what you write - but unfoirtunately you see things wrong in players of which there is no real evidence.   If they make one mistake and you do not like the player who made it - you will make that mistake career-defining.   If you like the player concerned - deathly silence would follow on your part - even if he amde strings of bugger-ups.   
There is one thing that I find amusing though.   If anybody analyse the perfoiomances of Matfield since he came back on the test scene in June - you would find that there ws a serious deterioration evident in hsi game.   He cannot string together two games in succeeding weeks without some detrioration inprformance.  His line out work rate has dropped by more than 30% since June.   This was pointe dout to you and t he silence were ear-splitting.    Why not look at all players and see where they did well - credit them for what they do well and criticize hem if they flop.    Your criticism is targetted at certain players - w ho may pose a threat to your favourite sin teh Springbok team - neve rmind how inadequate the presen incumbents may be.   
The katter is what is called objectivity - but from what happens in the case of comments on this site - you are enver objEctive about players - somettimes highly-subjectie and finding fault - where there is rarely any substance to he faults  you come up with.   
So try again - maybe next timeyou would make better and more factual contributions.    
just one othr thing - there is no way that any coach can successfully "Nurse" players - who already under-perform through a competiton like the WC.   EWhomsoever tried that stunt in the past failed - that is wjy the WC has never been won by a team twice in a row.   That isdea ia ridiculous - the end result is always the same - te older players ultinately flop and that is a fact.   The idea that you must keep older players in the team just because of their reputation and what they were able to do years ag o - and not being able to do now - is ridiculous in teh extreme.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 00:06
#11
29 Nov 2014, 00:06#11
Blah blah blah......not one of these players would be chosen for Oz, NZ and none of them would have been chosen for Wales tomorrow. How do we beat teams with inferior backline building blocks? Certainly not with the expansive game plan everybody wants to see. 

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 01:28
#12
29 Nov 2014, 01:28#12

 This is what Rich has to say...


"I am less convinced that he has all aspects of backline coaching well covered, and although the Boks have scored some great tries this year and last, there are too many times when their backline attack lacks congruency. If you want an example, think of the last minutes of the match against the All Blacks in Wellington, when the Kiwis were helped by poor Bok decision making and a lack of the sort of attacking incisiveness boasted by their opponents.

Part of the problem of course is that the Boks have two inside centres playing together in the midfield, and although there is no bigger supporter of Jean de Villiers than me, I do look forward to what the Boks might be able to achieve post-2015 when they will be able to play Jan Serfontein or Handre Pollard at No 12. The trick then will be to unearth an outside centre, for there aren’t too many genuine ones around.

But I am digressing from my main point, which is that the over-reliance on fullback Le Roux when it comes to attacking innovation is a problem that needs to be addressed. Apart from the Italy and Dublin games, where possession dominance was frittered away by incongruent back play, we should also not forget that the Boks had a lot of ball to play with against Australia at Newlands and yet only really looked like scoring tries once the Wallabies had fallen over in a heap in the last 10 minutes.

Meyer’s record as Bok coach is a good one, and his attention to detail is impressive. The planning is on track for next year, and there shouldn’t be any need for him to sack anyone, but I do wonder if ahead of the World Cup year he shouldn’t perhaps take a leaf out of the book of his two immediate predecessors by refreshing his management group with a key addition.

The impact Eddie Jones had on the attacking aspects of the Bok game when he was introduced as an assistant by Jake White ahead of the 2007 World Cup has been well documented. And while Peter de Villiers’ team didn’t win the World Cup in 2011, the team arrived at that event a lot better equipped and prepared to challenge than they might have had it not been for the addition of what he called his X-factor coaches, Rassie Erasmus (technical adviser) and Jacques Nienaber (defence).

The Jones innovation though is the relevant one when it comes to this group of Boks and it may require the engagement of a shrewd overseas coach with backline and attack specialisation to ensure that on the days that Le Roux isn’t there, they don’t regress into becoming the herd of cumbersome buffalo that they were before the Cheetahs fullback was first introduced."

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
29 Nov 2014, 01:33
#13
29 Nov 2014, 01:33#13

When I saw that video on Jonah Lomu, I again wondered why the Bulls never experimented with Pierre Spies on the wing or maybe even at centre? Too slow perhaps?


Maybe it was a fault to let Robert Ebersohn go.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 01:42
#14
29 Nov 2014, 01:42#14
Blikkies I think he wasn't agile enough....nor did he have decent talking technique. In his early day ate pace was certainly there, after 2007 he seemed unable to beat the first tackler. These big, fast lads need to be channeled into back play earlier.
Denny I have rarely read anything insightful from Rich. If he wants to seeSerfontein outside Pollard Isuggest he looks at a few of the 2014 Bools matches. Serfonteinis now the most overrated Bok. I watched Italy a second time. ....jean makes the harder tackles, throws better  passes and makes more metres after the tackle.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 01:53
#15
29 Nov 2014, 01:53#15

I agree with his suggestion with regards to harnessing outside help in addressing our backline woes, the knuckle running the show was an average backline player in his day.

Eddie Jones with out a doubt did wonders for our  backline, Rich is saying let's get someone who knows what his talking about....I can't disagree  with that. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 02:09
#16
29 Nov 2014, 02:09#16
 Blabblabla
That story about Oz and NZ - Not one of the playes you want to nurse throuh would be played eby NZ and Oz either - since they ar enot up to standard anymore.
The tem as a whole malfunctioned against Italy.   So now suddenly Jea did this and that.  Tackled harder and made more meters in tackles - but where did that leave us?   H e was in all tests poorer than he was in tests last year.
There is not a single point that I raised that you can dispute and fact is the issue of nursing players through - players whose performance this  year is already questionable and is likely to be worse next year - is utter BS.
Still not prepared to look at Matfield's statistics - because you know he played worse in every successive game h was invoved in - that h looked average in June and wa y blow par in November.   Same as you did not want to hear about  Francois  Steyn's stats in this years Super 15.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 03:06
#17
29 Nov 2014, 03:06#17
 I agree with that suggestion Denny, but several posters, both of us included, have been saying that since RwC 07.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:04
#18
29 Nov 2014, 09:04#18
 Mozart
See what I wrote in respect fo abckline play by the Bulls.
Incidentally - meyer thus far was flounderinga round with most backline selections and that is why there is effectively a problem in certain positions.   The major rpoblem was Morne Steyn - as long as he was the pivot -  no coach anywhere would ever have been able to improve backline play of the backline as a whole - he seems to is gone now.   
In the ciritical no 13 position Meyer has tried and mostly failed in repect of the no 13 position.   In 2012 he tried 3 players in that position (De Villiers Taute and De Jongh) in that position and all three failed.   De Villiers is a no 12 center and not a 13  - hence the failure - the other two were just not internaional level centers.   In 2013  he tried JJ Engelbrecht and  Fourie - both failed badly - Fourie essnetially because he lacked pace ad never shown anything in attacking play.   This year he tried Pietersen,De Allende and Serfointein.
Pietersen was a flop - he is clueless in enter attacking play and was a real defensive liability - having ost pace compeltely in the last two years -and Serfontein remais essentially a number 12 player - two number 12's making up the center combination can never work.   De Allende showed signs of attacking flair - but lacked seriously expereinece in playing in the no 13 jersey.
Having tried a total of 8 players in the no 13 position in tests over a three year period showed lack of consistentcy and player development opportunity.   The present poor scenario is basically the result of a floundering selection problem.    
On the wing - meyer is right about Habana - but he failed to see what happened in teh case of Pietersen.   His move to bring in Hendricks - a player that was at best a bench player for the Cheetahs - showed that he realizes there  is a problem on the wing.  Howevr, there is a reason why Hndricks is normaly a Cheetahs bench player and not in their starting line-up.   The reason is he ahs defense problems and is poorunder high balls - essentially a sevens player.   
Habaa is injury-prone and is showing increasing signs of coming to the end of his glorious test rugby career.  in essence Meyer got stack in a groof when making test selections and when eh was forced into a change - made a curious selection at best. Essentially we are moving into a crisis situation on the wing as well
The above scenario is further complicated by the faact that De Villiers was ineffective this ye ar - showing seriousigns of declining performance levels as well.
The resent problems is alrgely of Meyer's own making - as well as the problms encountered in the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers approach to abckline play.   That may show a difference in future - there are already signs of that iro of WP and hopefully the other teams would follow.   
In essence the problems in respct of the abckline players can be traced effectively to a lack of prpoer backline selection - and the lack of a comprehensive backline coaching process.    
   
   
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 10:39
#19
29 Nov 2014, 10:39#19

Let's look statistically at the 13's tried by Meyer



De Allende, played two tests one at 13 and one at 14.


Runs 11

Meters made 87

Defenders beaten 3

Clean breaks 2

Passes 4

Penalties conceded 0

Turnovers conceded 3

Tackles attempted 8 missed 3


The only criticism that can be levied at De Allende is that he got isolated a few times and that his defence was poor, but then if you consider the fact it was his first time in a thirteen jersey and you don't just immediately adjust to the positional play in defence it is unfair to judge him when he has Jean who breaks the defensive line on a continuous basis to create gaps that his team mates must adjust for.


JJ Engelbrecht played in 12 tests, 9 as a starter.


Runs 56

Meters made 474

Defenders beaten 14

Clean Breaks 8

Passes 11

Offloads 1

Turnovers conceded 13

Tries 4

Try assists 2

Attempted tackles 50 missed tackles 10


Jean de Villiers played in 8 tests at 13


Runs 33

Meters made 174

Defenders beaten 6

Clean breaks 4

Passes 24

Offloads 5

Turnovers conceded 8

Tries 1

Try assists 1

Attempted tackles  27 missed 3


Jaco Taute played 3 tests at OC


Runs 20

Meters made 60

Defenders beaten 2

Clean Breaks 0

Passes 5

Offloads 0

Turnovers conceded 3

Tries 0

Try Assists 0

Attempted tackles 22 missed 3 


Juan de Jongh played 2 tests at 13


Runs 4

Meters made 12

Defenders beaten 2

Clean breaks 0

Passes 1

Offloads 0

Turnovers conceded 1

Tackles attempted 8 missed 1


Jacques Fourie played 3 tests at 13

Runs 9

Meters made 13

Defenders beaten 0

Clean breaks 0

Passes 5

Offloads 2

Turn overs conceded 2

Tries 0

Try assists 1

Tackles attempted 19 missed 0


Jan Serfontein played 10 matches at 13

Runs 78

Meters made 312

Defenders beaten 18

Clean breaks 7

Passes 34

Offloads 6

Turnovers conceded 9

Tries 1

Try assists 2

Tackle attempts 123 missed 18


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 11:20
#20
29 Nov 2014, 11:20#20
 Biltongbel It would eb interesting to see what the averages per test is - so I will try and so so with the fugures provided by you as a basis for comaprison Only starting tests used:-

De Allende, played two tests one at 13 and one at 14.


Runs 5,5 

Meters made 43,5

Defenders beaten 1,5

Clean breaks 1

Passes 2

Penalties conceded 0

Turnovers conceded  1,5

Tackles attempted 4 missed 1,5


JJ Engelbrecht played in 12 tests, 9 as a starter.


Runs  4,67

Meters made 

Defenders beaten 1,17

Clean Breaks 0,57

Passes  0,92

Offloads 0.13

Turnovers conceded 1,08

Tries 0,33

Try assists 0,32

Attempted tackles 4,3 missed tackles 0,85


Jean de Villiers played in 8 tests at 13


Runs  4,13

Meters made 21,75

Defenders beaten 0,5

Clean breaks 0,33

Passes 2

Offloads 0,42

Turnovers conceded 0,67

Tries 0,12

Try assists 0,12

Attempted tackles  3,38 missed o.38


Jaco Taute played 3 tests at OC


Runs 6,67

Meters made 20

Defenders beaten 0.67

Clean Breaks 0

Passes 1,67

Offloads 0

Turnovers conceded 1

Tries 0

Try Assists 0

Attempted tackles 7,3 missed 1 


Juan de Jongh played 2 tests at 13


Runs 2

Meters made 6

Defenders beaten 1

Clean breaks 0

Passes 0,5

Offloads 0

Turnovers conceded 0o,5

Tackles attempted 4 missed 0,5


Jacques Fourie played 3 tests at 13

Runs 3

Meters made 4,33

Defenders beaten 0

Clean breaks 0

Passes 1,67

Offloads 0,67

Turn overs conceded 0,67

Tries 0

Try assists 0,5

Tackles attempted 6,33 missed 0


Jan Serfontein played 10 matches at 13

Runs 7,8

Meters made 31,2

Defenders beaten 1,8

Clean breaks 0,7

Passes 3,4

Offloads 0,67

Turnovers conceded 0,9

Tries 0.10

Try assists 0,20

Tackle attempts 12,3 missed 1,8


Anybody looking at the above averages would from a ball carrying perspectie put De Allnde t the top of the list and Fourie and De Joongh at th bottom of the pile. 


From a defensive perspective the situation is different with Fourie and Serfontein at the top and De Allende at the bottom.


Th situation here is that De Allende played only in two tests - the one in horrible weather conditions - and sicne it was his first two games at 13 - one winders whether the probms encountered by him ar not the unfamilaiarty in the posistion coupled to the playing conditions.   


What is clear from the above is the fact that De villiers is not an effective 13 - he should stay at 12 - and that the 13 positions hould be considered around Serfontein, De Allende and Engebrecht - with all three getting special coaching and experience in that position.  Peronally I thin Serfontein is absically a 12 - and my choioice with special coaching and experience would ebthe answer at 13.  



BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 11:33
#21
29 Nov 2014, 11:33#21

Looking at the stats De Allende has not had enough time to be judged, in my view JJ has been prematurely dropped, he runs the most meters by far. Jan has also been decent.


I think a combination of Jan at 12 and JJ at 13 is a decent attacking combination. Defence can be worked on, but you can't teach speed.


Damien needs more opportunities. For me these three are the future, plus I would like to see Paul Jordaan given an opportunity.


Jean brings little in attack.


If you want to play defensive minded rugby then pick Jean, if you want to score more tries the combination is obvious.  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:17
#22
29 Nov 2014, 12:17#22
Allende was a must for the Boks.That he didnt pair Jan and Allended is a crime!
JJ on the  wing is a must try. But is quota stuff rearing its head again. Must have black players and their best chance is on the wing as they are quick.Meyer appears to lack vision. He needs an Eddie Jones type to advise him. But again the quota curse strikes. Instead of getting a Jones we get Loubscher who was the bulle V odacom backline coach with limited experience.
Until merit selections rule we will always be disatisfied that the best team is not on the park and neither will we necessarily have the best coaches.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:23
#23
29 Nov 2014, 12:23#23
 Look at this again:ape Town - The South African Rugby Union (SARU) has confirmed its plans to ensure that half the Springbok team is made up of players of colour by 2019.

Rapport on Sunday revealed SARU's Transformation Strategic Plan, which aims to bring all of South Africa's representative rugby teams, along with domestic teams in line with national targets in five years.

Of the Springbok team currently competing in the Rugby Championship, 19% of the players are non-white, while only 12% are black African. Zimbabwean-born prop Tendai Mtawarira was the only black African player to start in the defeat to Australia in Perth, with Trevor Nyakane warming the bench.

But SARU wants to make sure that by 2019 at least half the Springbok side consists of players of colour, with 60% of those required to be black African.

SARU also set a mandate for Bok coach Heyneke Meyer to select at least five black players in his squad for the 2015 Rugby World Cup in England as well as include seven players of colour in his match-day squad in the lead-up to the tournament.

According to Beeld, all 14 of South Africa's provincial unions approved the new strategic plan on August 13 this year.

SARU has already shared the plan with SASCOC and the sports ministry. The next step is for SARU's general council to approve the plan.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:49
#24
29 Nov 2014, 12:49#24
If they are going to enforce that I will stop following SA sport. I don't have issues with transformation lower down, but not at international level  
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:50
#25
29 Nov 2014, 12:50#25
 Hasbeeno, when will you realise that by having more Black African players in your team it will actually IMPROVE the Boks! They are much faster, more agile, more adaptable and quicker thinking than your good ol' boofhead Afrikaans players who are incapable of an independent thought!You should be welcoming the change instead of trying to stick with the staid, crash bash boring squad you have at present; but then again I've probably accurately  described you already above as one of those boofheads....
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:57
#26
29 Nov 2014, 12:57#26

Moola, that is a general statement.


Players these days must be balanced in skill, size, speed etc.


Let players earn their Bok jerseys, that will improve the Springboks


 

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:58
#27
29 Nov 2014, 12:58#27
Transformation is inhuman. If they implement any kind of transformation and the rest of the world accepts it, then they all deserve the worst things that can happen to them. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:16
#28
29 Nov 2014, 13:16#28
 letsal
It is not really frightening.   It has to do with two issues, namely -
*   the natural increase in size of people through generations; and 
*   the rule changes in rugby.
The seond issue is mor improtant than most people care to think.  Players must be more attic - speedier - with ball skills to dleiver what World Rugby now require.   At th same time they must be clever in ball skills and play and try to beat the equal-sized opposition players.
No as to the size of players.   In 1938 Philip Nel was regarded as a giant of a player at lock.   He was 6'1"  and weighed 90 kgs - that was a giant those days.  In the mnid 1950's Pieter du Toit was the  Springbok prop also 6'1" - known as "Piet Spiere" on account of his strong built - but weighing 96 kgs.  Nowadys the average height of  locks is 6'9" and the weight about 118 to 120 kgs.   If you look at the size of Pieter-Steph du Toit compared to his granfather you get the real impact.   
The lightest player in the Springbok forwards the last match was Mohoje at 103 kgs.   The seocnd lightest Matfield at 109 kgs.   As a lock Matfield belongs to the rpevious era of locks - just not strong enough anymore.
Sure the next generation of players will be boigger and stronger and faster than the present generation.  In sport it is natural - that is why world records are broken.    
The only way forward is to acept the inevitable and support change where necessary.   To stick with older and smaller players is looking for trouble - they are just not physically strong enough anymore.    
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:18
#29
29 Nov 2014, 13:18#29
Stupid Maaik: "The major rpoblem was Morne Steyn - as long as he was the pivot -  no coach anywhere would ever have been able to improve backline play of the backline as a whole - he seems to is gone now."  

Ugh! This again!

The Bulls won 2 S15 titles with Morne as pivot. In 2010, the Bulls scored the most tries in the S15 and the majority of those tries were backline tries.

In 2013, the Bulls scored the second most tries in the S15 and most of the tries were backline tries. Both Serfontein and JJ Engelbrecht became Springboks because of their attacking play on Morne's outside. This year JJ's attacking play (without Morne) was so shit that he got dropped from the team completely. And he was a contracted Bok! After the 2013 S15, Morne was also selected in the team of the tournament, based on all aspects of his play.

This year in the RC and now on the EOYT we have scored less tries. We won by smaller margins and the ball rarely moves to the wings, if ever. Our backline is much worse than it was last year... And you are STILL blaming Morne for that! DOH!
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:30
#30
29 Nov 2014, 13:30#30
 Michael has an agenda, if you have an agenda that all interpretations will be slanted towards the ascension of that agenda. Michael has been exposed many a time for lying about Bulls players. In his mind Du Preez was also a weakness last year, in fact, every year! Very amusing but not to be taken at all seriously. And you waste your time posting facts or any kind of information, as I was told, only those that support his agenda are accurate or true.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:33
#31
29 Nov 2014, 13:33#31
Winning Super rugby titles 5 years ago is irrelevant in today's era.  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:39
#32
29 Nov 2014, 13:39#32
 Being succesful up until the present is very much relevant. You forget how Morné carried that backline in his last season with the Bulls all the way to 2nd place in the standings, without Du Preez. No, the nonsense about Morné is disgusting. Just as disgusting as the lies Michael posts about him, lies which have heavily exposed time and again.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:49
#33
29 Nov 2014, 13:49#33
It is 2014, players lose form, they get older, the game changes, 2009/10 is not relevant. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:53
#34
29 Nov 2014, 13:53#34
2 013 and 2014 however is, added to that we have a great deal of trends we can study from the years you denigrate as being irrelevant. Trends which reflect certain players inability to succeed at Super or Test level.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 14:10
#35
29 Nov 2014, 14:10#35

In 2013, only 13 of the Bulls tries were scored between no's 10 and 15 in the matches Morne played, 16 were scored by no's 1-9, in one match he wasn't playing.


Way off the majority of tries being scored by the backs outside him. That is assuming Morne had a hand in each of those tries


 

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 14:13
#36
29 Nov 2014, 14:13#36
 Wrong again G oof.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 14:19
#37
29 Nov 2014, 14:19#37

And because you can offer no evidence contrary to my facts you call me a name.


 Your ability to reason has astounded me, nay, stumped me into silence.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
29 Nov 2014, 14:54
#38
29 Nov 2014, 14:54#38
 Here 's a stat, Morne hasn't scored a single try in 2 seasons.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 15:22
#39
29 Nov 2014, 15:22#39
 Biltong old choppie, if you want to make your long post useful....divide the number of clean breaks, defenders beaten and metres gained by the number of runs. That way you convert raw data into a stat that can be usefully compared. Just trying to help.
BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
29 Nov 2014, 15:26
#40
29 Nov 2014, 15:26#40
It took long enough to compile the data Mozart, thought someone else could do that  
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