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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Beast destroys Marcel

The Beast destroys Marcel

Started by Mozart36 REPLIES403 VIEWS· 18 Apr 2015, 23:06
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Apr 2015, 23:06
#1
18 Apr 2015, 23:06#1

Don't let the commentary  confuse, the Beast had him backwards and popped in every scrum. If the Sharks had more lock power the Bools scrum was a toast.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2015, 06:45
#2
19 Apr 2015, 06:45#2
 I rarely agree with you - but here I do.  Marcel van der Merwe is not a strong enough scrummager at all - and his contributions for the rest does not make up for his deficient scrumming.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Apr 2015, 09:51
#3
19 Apr 2015, 09:51#3

Heya Experts, is it just me believing it was an awful game? I understand the Sharks are crap but to my eye da Bulle were woeful?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2015, 10:04
#4
19 Apr 2015, 10:04#4
 Denny
Both the Bulls and the Stormers had woeful games yesterday.   Agree with you in this case.  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Apr 2015, 10:57
#5
19 Apr 2015, 10:57#5

Yes, Nothing to admire about the Stormers in attack and even though they had plenty of possession they simply failed to put the Force away. You'd have to wonder what the result would have been if they hadn't received a dubious looking penalty try.

That said their game was better game than the Bulle vs Sharks game and although impotent in scoring tries they are not as pathetic as the latter two teams.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2015, 11:01
#6
19 Apr 2015, 11:01#6
 Fully agree - but the Stormers game showed how detrimental it is when good possession is kicked away aimlessly.  
The Bulls-Sharks game was just a dreadful performance by the two teams involved.  
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Apr 2015, 11:04
#7
19 Apr 2015, 11:04#7
 Den end Mike, it was make or break games for the Bulls and Stormers and it was played like knockout games.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2015, 11:13
#8
19 Apr 2015, 11:13#8
 Draad
So was the game against the Waratahs for the Stormers the week before - and it was not as dreadful as the one yesterday.   

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Apr 2015, 11:18
#9
19 Apr 2015, 11:18#9

Ag Nee Draad, your excuse is piss poor....I'm not buying.


Wind the clock back a week to the Waratah game and you'll notice that 3 of the Stormers tries were scored against the run of play.


Houston, we have a problem. 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
19 Apr 2015, 11:39
#10
19 Apr 2015, 11:39#10
Mike, of course the Sharks/Bulls wasn't a pretty sight but, like Draad has said, there were a lot on this game for both teams. 
The Bulls know that they have a trip Downunder on the way and they need to have as many points as possible and that is mainly because of their poor performances in the opening rounds of the competition. 
The Sharks, on the other hand, desperately needs to get their campaign on track. There is no place for fancy, opportunistic, etc in their game, at this stage. 
That is why the game turned into what it did. 
I missed the biggest part of the FA Cup semi-final between Arsenal and Reading yesterday. Arsenal has been on a hell of a winning streak and are really playing well at the moment. They are in with a very slim chance of actually wining the Premier League as well as the FA Cup. Reading, on the other end are at the bottom end of the championship, the second tier competition in England with a chance to play in the FA Cup final for the first time in 138 years. It was not a pretty game either. There were none of Arsenal's normal flair and they were pushed all the way into extra time by Reading and they avoided a penalty shoot-out because of a fumble by the Reading goalie. 
Arsenal, by all accounts, should have walked this game but they didn't. Why? Because it was an "all or nothing" game for both teams as well. Reading to get into an FA Cup final for the first time ever. Arsenal. Because they the defending champs and they are second of the 20 sides on the Premiership log while Reading are only down in 19th of the second tier Championship. They could not afford to play their normal attractive game. 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
19 Apr 2015, 12:35
#11
19 Apr 2015, 12:35#11

 "They could not afford to play their normal attractive game"


Oh allright then if we are to believe that the Bulls and the Sharks normally play attractive rugby.....my bad, I must have missed it when they did.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
19 Apr 2015, 13:48
#12
19 Apr 2015, 13:48#12
 Are you saying that a lot of the rugby that the Bulls have been playing is not attractive? If so then we have a whole host of bullsh!ters around because I have seen some positive comments about the backline play of, amongst others, Kriel, Hougaard (on wing), Odendaal, Polard, et al. Don't let stereo types cloud your view. That is more the style of a certain Sharks "supporter". 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Apr 2015, 14:39
#13
19 Apr 2015, 14:39#13
I can't wait to hear Dave's rationale for the popped up and turned position Marcel found himself in, in every scrum. Perhaps it's just a new early exit from a completed scrum?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Apr 2015, 19:59
#14
19 Apr 2015, 19:59#14

Dave is going to explode when he reads this.   I also said Coenie was poor in the Reds game - so much so he had to be replaced at halftime as a result of a "backache".   That "backache" probably resulted from the lesson/workover gave him in scrumming in th eh first half of the relevant game.    Coenie was poor from the first scrum - so did the backache commenced then and lasted through the whole first half?         
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Apr 2015, 20:35
#15
19 Apr 2015, 20:35#15
 Nonsense Marcel gave Beast a hard time in certain scrums. The sharks scrum was definitely not dominant and Jannie had to be subbed.MArcell had a respectble game as did Greling. Du Plessis was very good as was Strauss. 
Bulls and Sharks are are upward curve.

The Bulls/ Sharks game was  a fair cut above the Stormers effort. The Stormers pack was weakened by wee kolisi and carr along with a small hooker. The pack really got little out of the Force. The Stormers would have struggled against both Bulle and Sharks.
If the bungling Alsitair Coetzee thinks he can field that backline and get anywhere he is mistaken. Add in wee kolisi and wee carr and we will not not beat top teams. The oak is a halfwit.Thankfully Vermuelen will be back and Burger will continue to start. Unfortunately one decent sized back Van Wyk was injured.  Howard surely must be given a chance now.
Moz must be embarassed by the strong showing of Malherbe.Hahahahhahaha 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
19 Apr 2015, 20:36
#16
19 Apr 2015, 20:36#16
 Ou maaaikie I have told Dave a number of times Coenie's scrumming is suspect. Lets hope he at last takes the point!!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Apr 2015, 22:57
#17
19 Apr 2015, 22:57#17
Not embarrassed HasBeen, it's easy to be factual. Malherbe has been very solid in the last two games...hopefully he maintains that form against the better looseheads.
As for Marcel he was popped in every scrum. One of our abysmally dumb commentators once said Marcel got the better of the Beast and then went silent as he watched the replay. It was one way traffic. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2015, 03:46
#18
20 Apr 2015, 03:46#18
 Who in your book are the better looseheads you write about?   At present the best looseheads in SA are Kitshoff and Beast - followed by Nyakane.  
In the Aussie teams there is one only - Slipper of the Reds - who is really consequential.  The one you mentioned before was Robinson - but Malherbe took him to the cleaners. The other Aussie - who scrummed against Malherbe on Saturday was Pek Cowan.  The latter is regarded as one of the best looseheads in Australian Rugby. 
The NZ looseheads are nothing to write home about.   The All Blacks routinely had  Crockett as their loosie - often in tests - but his scumming has been exposed as illegal.   That happened in the Crusader game against the Lions - after which the  referees were instructed to watch his scrumming carefully - and he started being blown up virtually every scrum for illegal scrumming.  Even the Crusaders have put him on the bench for that reason.   Of the rest Faumuina is the best - but the Blues constantly play him from the bench.   The rest is piss poor.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Apr 2015, 11:06
#19
20 Apr 2015, 11:06#19
Oh what utter rubbish......there was nothing in it between Marcel and the Beast.....it was tit for tat......you are speaking your usual rubbish  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2015, 14:50
#20
20 Apr 2015, 14:50#20
What rubbish is that Dave....the rubbish that said JJ wasn't a centre and Hougaard wasn't a scrumhalf......hahahahahaa.  Take the mote out of your own eye old chap....Marcel was owned by the Beast. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Apr 2015, 15:07
#21
20 Apr 2015, 15:07#21

Rubbish.....Marcel kicked Beast's arse more than Beast got the better of him.......I gave it as evens.....but if pushed, I'd say Marcel was better on the day.....as the commentators correctly observed and which you have instructed us to ignore....which in itself is testament to that rubbish you spoke.


Your heading is an insult when you actually consider the facts  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2015, 15:13
#22
20 Apr 2015, 15:13#22
My heading described exactly what happened in every scrum....Marcel was vertical and going backwards.  When a tighthead is popped there is nothing more to be said.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2015, 15:16
#23
20 Apr 2015, 15:16#23
 Dave 


Is that all - you are mellowing my friend - I expected a much stronger response in this case.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Apr 2015, 15:18
#24
20 Apr 2015, 15:18#24

Oh what utter rubbish......Beast was just as much up as Marcel was........it depended on who exerted more pressure as to who was the cause.......the very reason the spoils were shared.....if you missed that......then clearly you have no idea......and of course the commentators to were getting it wrong.


Geez Moz you have no bloody idea.......so if Marcel was being popped and the penalty was awarded against Beast......how does that work then? Take your time   

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
20 Apr 2015, 16:45
#25
20 Apr 2015, 16:45#25

".... normal attractive game"


When you say "normal" I struggle....but when you say "normal attractive"...then I'm speechless.


I must be missing something.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
20 Apr 2015, 16:59
#26
20 Apr 2015, 16:59#26

I actually really enjoyed the way the Bulls played that game.......there was plenty of intensity and precision in much of what they did......they look in good form.


It was a good game  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2015, 17:54
#27
20 Apr 2015, 17:54#27
 1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks): A big afternoon for the Springbok prop when it came to his work in the loose, which couldn't be faulted despite the Sharks falling to yet another loss. The Sharks scrum was solid and ‘Beast’ backed that up with ten tackles and six carries for 22 metres.


    SA
    Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 17:57
    #28
    20 Apr 2015, 17:57#28
    Yep just as I thought.....said NOTHING about him destroying Marcel.......as that never happened......its the most inaccurate heading I have EVER read on here......as I said, insulting to those that know the game..........Moz it does confirm how little you know about the scrums  
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 18:02
    #29
    20 Apr 2015, 18:02#29
     The Beast had him for breakfast, but the overall Sharks scrum simply wasn't dominant enough...locks especially.
    Look for Kitshoff to destroy this fattie on Saturday. This guy Marcel reminds me of your love affair with Werner Kruger.
    SA
    Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 18:05
    #30
    20 Apr 2015, 18:05#30

    As I said Moz you are as clueless as they come........you must be feeling a little embarrassed with that heading which in effect is a blatant lie


    1 - Steven Kitshoff (Stormers): Mr. dependable, Kitshoff is one of those players you could easily imagine in a Springbok jumper, but sadly know it won't happen anytime soon.

    Bubbling under: Reg Goodes (Hurricanes) Where is the Beast?  
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 18:12
    #31
    20 Apr 2015, 18:12#31
    Here is the Beast in the more reliable Planet Rugby team. Don't bother to apologize:
     Team of the Week: Super Rugby; Planet RugbyApril 20, 2015, 17:18:10

    Now that the dust has settled in the southern hemisphere, we select the men who stood out during Round Ten of Super Rugby.

    An outstanding contest between the competition leaders and defending champions sees the Waratahs and Hurricanes get plenty of attention while the Highlanders backs continue to impress.

    The Chiefs too were in top form while wins on the road for the Stormers and Reds deserve recognition.

    Super Rugby Team of the Week: Round Ten

    15 Tom Marshall (Chiefs): A classy performance at full-back from the Gloucester-bound back, whose gliding runs kept the Crusaders occupied all game long in Christchurch. Marshall looked dangerous and made nine runs for a gain of 74 metres, going past three defenders with a couple of offloads to boot. Mentions for Israel Folau and Nehe Milner-Skudder.

    14 Waisake Naholo (Highlanders): You just can't stop this guy! The tournament's top try-scorer this season bagged another having already created one - both inside the first quarter - against the Blues. Something happens whenever the ball reaches his hands. Mentions too for Peter Betham, who scored twice andTim Nanai-Williams, who was brilliant in the Chiefs's demolition job in Christchurch.

    13 Malakai Fekitoa (Highlanders): The All Blacks are spoilt for choice in midfield and Fekitoa is sure to become a global superstar once Conrad Smith moves on after the World Cup. Two tries and an assist in a big first half for the youngster.Adam Ashley-Cooper also deserves a shout out for an excellent comeback game for the 'Tahs.

    12 Ma'a Nonu (Hurricanes): Back to his best since returning to the yellow jersey, Nonu beat a whopping eight defenders and made ten tackles. A mention for George Moala, who was also difficult to get hold of.

    11 James O’Connor (Reds): Back in the side for the Reds and how they enjoyed having him involved in their attacks, with the Wallaby setting up two tries which flipped the game on its head in Bloemfontein. Offers some real class when the Reds can get the ball in his hands and this was his best performance of the year. Made 13 runs for 86 metres, beating three defenders.

    10 Bernard Foley (Waratahs) : A tough choice with a few 10s playing well this week but Foley was instrumental in the champs' revival in Wellington, as he helped set up two tries. A mention too for his free-running opposite number Beauden Barrett and Lima Sopoaga, who was faultless from the kicking tee.

    9 Nic Stirzaker (Rebels): Sparked the Melbourne side to life when his dart off the back of a set-piece led to Sefenaia Naivalu racing over to make it 10-0 with the conversion. Stirzaker also directed play very well alongside Jack Debreczeni and seems to be growing in confidence by the week. Aaron Smith was his usual busy self against the Blues while TJ Perenara scored a try and got an assist.

    8 Nizaam Carr (Stormers): Filling in admirably for Duane Vermeulen when required, Carr was at the heart of most of his pack's solid work against the Force. He had 12 carries and made an impressive 18 tackles to edge out Michael Leitch andWycliff Palu of the Chiefs and Waratahs respectively. Leitch in particular stood out with a smart try and an assist, but Carr did enough to get the nod.

    7 Michael Hooper (Waratahs) : A skipper's innings from the 'Tahs captain, who made 16 tackles and made a lot of ground with ball in hand. When Hooper is at his best, the Waratahs are tough to beat. A mention for the Sharks' Marcell Coetzee, who carried strongly.  

    6 Sean McMahon (Rebels): The Rebels are very much in the race for a play-off spot in the Australian conference, and McMahon played a key role in their win over rivals the Brumbies this weekend. In a game where they had just 33 percent possession, McMahon led the defensive effort with 16 tackles as well as some valuable carries. A mention for Jacques du Plessis, who impressed for the Bulls.

    5 Will Skelton (Waratahs): A first Super Rugby try for Skelton is enough to see him nudge out Patrick Tuipulotu. It was more than his try though, which simply required him to fall over the line. The Waratahs lock played the full 80 minutes, making ground with almost every carry while also fronting up in defence.

    4 Brodie Retallick (Chiefs): He was everywhere against the Crusaders as the men from Hamilton secured back-to-back wins over their conference rivals. 12 tackles, seven line-outs and a nuisance at the breakdown see him get him ahead of Stormers rock Eben Etzebeth.

    3 Charlie Faumuina (Blues): We're not sure if it says more about Faumuina or more about the rest of this round's tightheads that the All Black gets the nod despite playing only 35 minutes. An early second-half replacement, Faumuina helped the Blues overcome a 27-5 deficit to secure two unlikely bonus points. With 43 metres made ball in hand, he was certainly busy around the park, while the Blues remained rock solid at scrum-time.

    2 Adriaan Strauss (Bulls): It certainly wasn't a pretty win in Durban but the work-rate of players like Strauss in the pack paved the road to victory last Saturday. The Springbok hooker is starting to turn in big performances on a weekly basis on his return to Pretoria and registered plenty of carries (nine in total) and tackles. He therefore keeps out Keven Mealamu, who scored twice, and James Hanson.

    1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks): A big afternoon for the Springbok prop when it came to his work in the loose, which couldn't be faulted despite the Sharks falling to yet another loss. The Sharks scrum was solid and ‘Beast’ backed that up with ten tackles and six carries for 22 metres.


    •  0 people like this post
    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 19:26
    #32
    20 Apr 2015, 19:26#32
    Mozart
    These teams of the Week is BS - since it is never based on actual performances - but on one incident in matches.   There is no possible scientific rating basis that the journalists use in assessing players.  
    However, I had a look at Test Rugby where points are based on actual performances throughout the game.    In the Bulls - Sharks game the point allocation was as follows:-
    Mtawarire                  =     280 points Jannie du Plessis         =       90 pointsDean Greyling             =     180  pointsMarcel can der Merwe  =     100  points
    A point allocation of 120 or less means a serious failure in matches and the less the points become - the bigger the failure.
    In plain English the above means that 
    *   Mtawarire played the fool with Van der Merwe - he owned Marcell;*   Jannie du Plessis was piss poor in that game; and*   Greyling had an average  to slightly above  average game.
    The other abject failure this week was Coenie who gained only 40 points.
    The point allocation takes into account scrumming success and plays outside of the scrum as well.   
    Dave can jump up and down - but the factual information confirm that there are serious performance deficiencies in respect of all of Coenie Oosthuizen, Marcell van der Merwe and Jannie du Plessis.
      
    BE
    Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 19:52
    #33
    20 Apr 2015, 19:52#33
     What fictious figures are these ou maaaikie.  Somebody cant add up correctly. Marcell matched Beast. Beast for some years now has been unable to drive the ball up effectively. Marcell at least got over the advantage line. Scrumming = honours shared.
    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 20:21
    #34
    20 Apr 2015, 20:21#34
     Beeno
    These figures are not fictitious - they are based on actual contributions made by players and they are basically in line with a variety of statistical data sources on actual achievements of players during games.  Players are rated according to a fixed formula based on statistical data.   
    There are inconsistencies as well and the point allocations are not a totally accurate basis to assess player performances on - but negative numbers as indicated above is a real cause for concern and should be dealt with constructively.   What I am emphasizing is that widely different figures between individual players presents a problem that needs to be addressed - especially foi the figures week after week indicate deficiencies in performances.          
    MO
    MozartCaptain49,914 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 21:39
    #35
    20 Apr 2015, 21:39#35
    And a few numbers, applied mostly by fools, is better than vision and judgement? Nonsense, they are a guide to judgement, not a ranking mechanism.
    CL
    clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
    20 Apr 2015, 21:52
    #36
    20 Apr 2015, 21:52#36
    Mozart
    You imbecile - did you read what I said above.  I said they are indicators - how does that differ from being a guide.  Hell you are the worst idiot on rugby issues I have ever come across .  
    SA
    Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
    21 Apr 2015, 10:40
    #37
    21 Apr 2015, 10:40#37
    That heading is the biggest load of shit I have read in some time.....its laughable  
    — END OF THREAD —

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