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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Bok RWC tackling monster

The Bok RWC tackling monster

Started by Mozart63 REPLIES2,213 VIEWS· 15 Jan 2025, 16:21
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MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
16 Jan 2025, 11:46
#41
16 Jan 2025, 11:46#41
Well Saffolk, I can go right now and find a video on YouTube to prove his dominant play. But I do not know how to post videos on here from my I phone. Besides that Blobbie has put many a Video on here of sous…. But to be honest and I am sure you can confirm this, that video won’t matter to you as you have made up your mind. So no I am not a liar.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
16 Jan 2025, 11:47
#42
16 Jan 2025, 11:47#42

"Well Saffolk, I can go right now and find a video on YouTube to prove his dominant play.

But I do not know how to post videos on here from my I phone.

Besides that Blobbie has put many a Video on here of sous….

But to be honest and I am sure you can confirm this, that video won’t matter to you as you have made up your mind.

So no I am not a liar."

Well said Mpower

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Jan 2025, 11:51
#43
16 Jan 2025, 11:51#43
I have seen Blobs video and it showed zero physical dominance so yes you are a liar
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jan 2025, 16:06
#44
16 Jan 2025, 16:06#44

There are some issues here that peple does not talk about.   Mostert in 2019 was used a times whn players like De Jager was not available,   In essense thee were two incidents that backline playes ran straigh through poo defense of Mostert - the first were in the RC match against A rgentna where the Agentine flyhalf ran stright threough a  poor tackle  attempt b y Mostert and a repeat happened in the WC first match in 2019 where the AB wing ran straight through a similar tackle attempt by Mostert.   In both cases the flops ended in tries scored byhe opposig teams.   

In the six minutes the English was attacking the tryline Mostert made two tackle attempts - the first one was tackled and went down forwad up to a meter of the English tryline and Mostert lost hold of the feet of the English player and Malherbe stopped hih fom going further.    In the second case during the same match  Marx was joined by Mostert and a powerful tackle was made by the two players -  but it as always clear in that case the power in the tackle came fom Marx.    

After the RWC match against AB's in 2019 the two incidents led to him being  used as a bench player and he never started again as Springbok starting player in the criticl games of the SSpringboks in the rest  of the 2019 RWC.

I want to go back to the famous Welligton test won by the Springboks in 2018,   In that test Mostert missed 2 open field tackles on AB  players.   Together with the two 2019 tackles I referred to above it was clear that he was not a good enough open field tackler and in many cses where Mostert made tackles the players went forwad in tackles and easy recovery of the ball by oppossng teams were easy to make especially when other Springbks was involved in tackles credited by the stats to Mostert.    In fact to describe him as a tackling monster is to my mind total delusion BS.   As Mozart once describe being process tackles of players he disliked - the fact is that virtually all Mostert tackles were process tackles - nohing more,   

In the famous 2023 RWC final Du Toit made 28 tackles and won the test for the Springboks.   He was player of the match in the final and in 2024 he was rated as Player of the Year for the second time.    Du Toit also was captain of the Springboks in tests - Mozstert was not in the mix of senior players ever.    This type of comment on Du Toit Mozsrt came up with is ridiculous nonsnse, anyway.  

      ,                

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:01
#45
16 Jan 2025, 17:01#45
So what this exercise shows is none of Dud Toit’s ‘greatness’ can be found in the stats. He hardly ever beats a defender, he hardly ever turns over a ball in the deck, his tackling rate, the final excepted is high but not exceptional. His tackling success rate is surprisingly low at 85%. He scored a try against Scotland but nothing else, no try assists.
So this ‘greatness’ which true believers can see, has to be in something else….leadership, ‘court coverage’, grunt, intimidation?
Does that sound like bullshit to you? It does to me. Great contributions have to show up in the numbers. They do for any other great player.
Dud has actually added a few elements this year. He was once seen trying to fetch. He offloaded once or twice. I can recall him running some good lines. I would like to be more enthusiastic. He is a nice bloke and as  a kid I admired the great Piet Spiere du Toit.
But to be fair to the rest of the team. He wasn’t always great in the RWC. Hopefully he continues this late development in his career. He was a much better player in 2024 than he was in 2018, which ironically tells you all that gushing back then was nonsense.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:05
#46
16 Jan 2025, 17:05#46

. . . further proof that rugby noob and pompous twat is not a great combination . . .

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:09
#47
16 Jan 2025, 17:09#47

Further proof that grunts can’t follow logic.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:18
#48
16 Jan 2025, 17:18#48
Moz what this clearly shows is that you really know very little about rugby or the role of players Not sure how many more times you need to be told that bulky tall players like PSDT, Eben, RG etc operate in traffic, where defenders are not beaten - helloooooo But the best is having a 2m, 120kg turning ball over on the deck Fuck me how stupid
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:19
#49
16 Jan 2025, 17:19#49
"Moz what this clearly shows is that you really know very little about rugby or the role of players"
Correct . . . and he's also a pompous twat.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:24
#50
16 Jan 2025, 17:24#50

Then Dud shouldn’t be the designated ball carrier…..what’s the point of a ball carrier that never gives you penetration and never offloads. Explain that to me, what is the purpose? Snyman offloads brilliantly and creates opportunities for the next player. Eben is not a regular ball carrier.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Jan 2025, 17:44
#51
16 Jan 2025, 17:44#51
Eben carries the ball as much as PSDT does and nor does he beat defenders Not every player in a side is required to attack space and beat defenders, certainly not tight forwards or your blindside Their purpose is to attack contact and set up phases - something PSDT and Eben do very well RG’s offloading is unique to him, no other lock in the game does the same Do you honestly think PSDT should be attacking space and beating defenders? He is not physically equipped to do that What part of players used to carry in traffic to set up phases are you not getting? PSDT is a lock turned blindside and is mostly still used to operate as a lock with ball in hand although of late we see him operating out wider under the instruction of Brown, I’m guessing There has definitely been a shift - the man is scoring tries these days It’s testament to what a class act he is, that he has been able to shift from lock to blindside and now able to operate out wider after mostly operating in close quarters for much of his career PSDT is built for lock but has been good enough to make the shift to 7 and turn out to be one of the best 7’s to ever play the game Pretty bloody impressive and you don’t rate him Do you know how stupid you look - you have zero support on this. But hey ho I’m not going to change your mind on him just like you will never mine when it comes to Mostert
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 18:18
#52
16 Jan 2025, 18:18#52

Eben is a lock…..Dud a blindside flank, your typical hard yards ball carrier. Here are their WC carries:

NZ …..4 Eben/5 Dud

England 2 Eben/ 8 Dud

France 6 Eben/ 7 Dud

Ireland 4Eben/Dud 6

Scotland 2 Eben/ Dud 7

Eben 18/Dud  33.

In the RWC Dud carried almost twice as much as Eben. Because he is a programmed runner. He positions himself at first receiver off rucks. Eben carries when the flow of play puts him in position to run, or sometimes close to the line because of reach and weight. 

You say Dud plays like a lock. Bingo.,,.he is a lock. But his involvement in lineouts is way less than locks. He’s not pushing behind the props.

So you say he isn’t supposed to be an effective ball carrier….so stop giving him the ball. He got the ball 33 times, Kolisi got the ball 10 times…and he never got the ball once against France, England or New Zealand. We never trusted Kolisi to carry once in the knockouts….he only carried 10 times in the whole WC.

The lack of a forward running game is a big part of our attacking mediocrity  and Dud Toit sucks up far too much good ball.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 18:21
#53
16 Jan 2025, 18:21#53

So tell me Dave as a lock that is playing flank, but not expected to the duties of a flank or the duties of a lock, what does he do apart from tackle?

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Jan 2025, 18:41
#54
16 Jan 2025, 18:41#54
Huh, where did I say he was not an effective ball carrier - that’s your call. I’m saying he is a very effective ball carrier in traffic, he is our go to in that department I should hope he would carry more than Eben as you pointed out Eben is involved in scrums and the inner engine room PSDT is a great ball carrier in traffic, he has also of late show how effective he is out wide and he is a damn good defender, putting in many dominant tackles a game The guy is phenomenal - he adds grunt to the scrums, mauls, rucks, he is a good line out option, a great ball carrier and great defender He is not there to attack space or compete on the ground, for obvious reasons
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 18:58
#55
16 Jan 2025, 18:58#55
And yet not one of those things you claim he does is verified in the numbers…not even his tackling, which actually surprised me. He works in Rasmus’ no risk style:
* Don’t pass the ball wide.* If you run the ball the first objective is to avoid a turnover, so you run Dud and not Kolisi* You win games by tackling and scrumming.* Fetching isn’t a consideration because possession doesn’t matter, only field  position
Dud is a great servant of the Rasmus’ game plan.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Jan 2025, 19:34
#56
16 Jan 2025, 19:34#56
Well how do you account for much of what he does in numbers - grunt in scrums, mauls, rucks etc His carries are in contact so are hardly going to read like Arendse’s do As for his tackling - just ask Jordie
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Jan 2025, 20:49
#57
16 Jan 2025, 20:49#57

Dud is a great servant of the Rasmus’game plan.

BS - Mozart is a great serant of RUGBY IGNORANCE and prejudice .

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Jan 2025, 22:37
#58
16 Jan 2025, 22:37#58

Have a nice glass of warm milk and a Marie biscuit.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
17 Jan 2025, 06:53
#59
17 Jan 2025, 06:53#59
The role of a 7 flanker (openside flanker) in rugby is crucial, especially in the breakdown and defensive areas. Here’s a breakdown of their primary responsibilities: Key Responsibilities of the Openside Flanker (No. 7): 1. Ball Retrieval at the Breakdown: • The 7 is often the first player to the breakdown (the ruck) after a tackle. Their primary goal is to either secure possession for their team or contest the ball by attempting a turnover. This requires speed, agility, and strength. 2. Tackling and Defense: • Openside flankers are relentless tacklers. They often target the opposition’s ball carriers, particularly the fly-half and inside backs, to disrupt attacking plays. 3. Support Play: • They provide crucial support to their team’s ball carriers, ensuring quick recycling of the ball to maintain attacking momentum. 4. Link Between Forwards and Backs: • The 7 is a dynamic player who bridges the gap between the forwards and backs. They often join the backline in attacking moves, making them versatile and contributing to open play. 5. High Work Rate: • The openside flanker covers a lot of ground during a game, making them one of the busiest players on the field. Their role demands excellent fitness and stamina. 6. Disrupting Opponents: • By targeting the opposition scrum-half or fly-half, they aim to slow down or disrupt the opposition’s game plan. Traits of a Good No. 7: • Speed and agility. • High rugby IQ to read the game and anticipate plays. • Strength and technique in the breakdown. • Endurance to maintain performance across 80 minutes. • Aggression and fearlessness in defense and contesting the ball.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Jan 2025, 07:01
#60
17 Jan 2025, 07:01#60

Mozzie calls Du Toit "DUD" This dispite Du Toit being World player of the year TWICE.

I can't think of a bigger blunder in rugby Judgement than this other than Mozzie's absurd judgement regarding the Great Rassie Erasmus. Two unequalled monumental blunders that show that Mozzie is unable to evaluate matters fairly and logically.

Bye the way Du Toit has to make more tackle s out wide than Mostert against tricky backline players.

Dave of course is also right to point out that Du Toit is a lot harder tackler than Mostert.

Of one thing you can be sure the highly peeved Mozzie will never admit he was wrong about Du Toit and Rassie. His noze is too severely out of joint. 


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jan 2025, 08:02
#61
17 Jan 2025, 08:02#61

What Dave is not getting is that it's the Mosterts of the world that set hyped players up for success.

Eben and PSDT + Mostert > Eben and PSDT + anybody else.

If you insist on starting RG, then I'm dropping Kolisi for Mostert. 


My try of the WC.




MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
17 Jan 2025, 08:16
#62
17 Jan 2025, 08:16#62
Yip very good try….the mistake those Frenchies made is not taking Eben low… There was a story about a Black kid shouting while watching the try and calling Eben Elizabethi:)
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jan 2025, 15:07
#63
17 Jan 2025, 15:07#63

Crucial try by a great player.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
17 Jan 2025, 15:54
#64
17 Jan 2025, 15:54#64

When in doubt, run at the flyhalf.

— END OF THREAD —

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